A couple of old pro's doing a great job! This is REAL piloting, the FO/co-Capt. is doing a super job keeping the flying pilot informed of his progress on the approach and resetting the radios when required.
Yeah, nothing wrong with the chatter. Sterile cockpit don't mean (silent cockpit) to keep your mouth shut , as long as the talk is about the approach, the airplane, performance, checklists, they can talk all they want. Many a pilot has not said enough, and they are no longer with us. This is an older airplane, so no fancy flying but stick and rudder. The cockpit layout looks so much like a Westwind, but the yokes, and the big red fuel shutoff, are Hawker all the way! Very professional, and thanks for sharing!
Private jet from the '80s with 2 pilots that are older than any of us here, no glass cockpit, no ipads, old crt radar and no XM weather, those are real pilots!
Very well done. I used to fly an airliner (DO-328 turbo-prop) in and out of Aspen, One night I saw the runway straight down from the missed approach point and started our circle procedure, ended up going missed from 9,200 feet, fortunately we had a procedure for that too, but still, I've never been more scared in my life. And I agree with the other comment here, a sterile cockpit is not necessarily a silent cockpit, on an approach like the the VOR into Aspen, the other guy had better be talking to me, or we are going missed right now. Very well done guys.....and on steam gauges as well!!
@@user-wl6bw3jl4n I remember MAX well, we had an issue on a 328 one day at DEN, and our company got MAX to send a mechanic over to take a look at it for. Weren't your airplanes all dash 20s? Ours were dash 10s
Been there done that, and it's no picnic. These guys were cool as could be. The hardest part was getting ready to shoot the approach into Eagle so quick after the missed at Aspen.
The beauty of this video was you had two elderly veteran Pilots commanding the airplane you don't see that much anymore oh, it was fun to watch him set up the approach good communication
Watch, Listen and Learn! I dont know much about these specific pilots, but I suspect they got to be ripe old gentlemen aviators because they make wise decisions. Owner maybe inconvenienced by going to a divert airport, but better to safely divert to an airport than to land on time at your cemetery!
I'm sorry christpuncherr, which model Hawker requires 3 pilots for certification. When I'm flying, the last thing I need is someone other than the pilot flying and the pilot not flying talking at mins. and during missed.
Nothing wrong with this cockpit talk. They're going through the checklists, dealing with a very complex approach with multiple steep step-downs. No idle chatter. Just fine.
A couple of " old hands " the country needs to begin a program for training people who want to fly but can't afford it . We need young pilots before the " old hands " retire to Mexico .
used to drive cab in Aspen back in the eighties. We made a lot of runs from Eagle to Aspen when the weather moved in. Sometimes when the entire valley was socked in we would have to go all the way over the pass to Denver. Good money on those runs.
Living in Colorado it is really cool to see these birds come into Eagle! The runway is right off the I-70 freeway going Eastbound. I have no idea how these boys can do this with IFR! It's this....,OR Heaven forbid DIA!
Our company SOPs state that a MANDATORY missed approach must be initiated if (among others) "the success of the maneuver is in doubt". I'd be surprised if they didn't have a policy saying the same thing! Also our policy states that as soon as the words "Go around" are spoken on the flight deck, the PF will initiate a go around. That could be in the context "Should we go around?"
Mike Mchale Those are grey hairs of experience, and I'll take an old timer over a youngling any day of the week. Flying is one of those activities that rewards maturity and wisdom over youth and bravado. There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.
Where was the standard call outs on the missed approach? It doesn't matter that this is a private jet; standardization is for lack of better word, standard throughout the industry. No matter where they went for training, be it Flight Safety, Simuflite, etc, they are taught standardization and CRM. That goes for the observer/cameraman too. It almost sounds as though he is providing some instruction or guidance during the MAP.
+Mark Lowe Agreed. This crew needs emphasis on proper call-outs and flows. Way too much extraneous talking going on. They got the job done safely but it could of been done much easier and efficient with the proper call-outs.
Oh wow… so beautifully done. I am so blessed Mr.Nick is my Guru and has accepted me on his wings to create, New Chapter of my Life of Flying Cessna R172K N1058V…🤠
MsJubjubbird Eagle is a piece of cake compared to some others here in CO. I've flown into just about every mountain strip in co with my B35 and a friends Turbo Charged BE95 Travel air. I don't F**k around with mountains, they've kill more than one of my friends over the last 20 yrs. My mountain flying philosophy is maintain 2000 feet above the highest peak near you....and thats why I'm still alive, and Sparky Emerson is dead.
+Sharpsdoublerifle absolutely right you are. a friend of mine an A-7D fighter jock at the time went into a mountain range in a c172 full loaded in the Caribbean in a hot humid day. they crashed all perished. density altitude is a killer! RIP
+Sharpsdoublerifle another crew o 10 crashed and all died in a mountain flying in very bad wx. they were flying low alt. in a MC-130E from the special OPS GROUP at Hulbert Field in eglin afb,fl RIP
Haha.....I love these ol' boys. This was the way real flying was a few decades ago when you had to actually "fly" the plane and verbally communicate often on the approach. Love this old Hawker too.
That 3rd guy yapping in the cockpit is a hazard. An accident waiting to happen. Even if he's a pilot, he should know to shut up and let the professionals work.
+Desert Sky But, "doncha" just love those Steam Gauges!! :) Now THAT'S a panel! "Them-there" pilots are REAL pilots - i.e. manipulating those controls - keeping that scan going (even in VFR conditions) - "eyeballin'" those gauges. Now, that's flyin'!!!!
With all due respect, you are 100% incorrect. Don't confuse being courteous with a positive response....i.e., keep talking to me. This was critical and going into Aspen is one of the most dangerous airports in the U.S.. In fact, during the arrival and departure stage of a flight is considered the "Critical" phase of flight. Under charter and airline rules it's against the regulations to have unnecessary chatter. In the private world, it would be considered unprofessional and dangerous.
They didn't ask him to stop speaking so your point is invalid. They seem to all know each other pretty well so why the hell can't they talk? It's not difficult to talk while you fly. As long as he's not interrupting it doesn't matter.
Interesting, but simply waving the camera all over the place makes for lousy video; if you don't stop and restart the shot, you need to move it slowly and then leave it in place for several seconds so the viewer gets a chance to see what's in the shot!
It's not that they CAN'T talk, but I ride in the left seat all the time and I can tell you, I know when to shut up. There's a place and time for stuff and the time for stupid questions that can wait or idle banter is at best, stupid in a critical moment. If the person is just not bright enough to know when a good time to shut up is, then they probably shouldn't be near the pilots. It doesn't matter how good of friends they are, it's all about safety. I could care less if you're my best friend!
"... its private and so why be so serious?" Yea... I guess the lives of the people on board the airplane are not as important as those on an airliner so, "why be so serious." If you call yourself a professional, you would strive for the best... but oh well!
Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but it's just that this is a private flight. These guys are friends and are free to talk if they wish. If they crash it's their lives. The pilots know this, but these pilots encourage him to talk by responding positively. I'm just saying, our opinions will differ, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to the pilots.
I loved all of those "Steam Gages!" A REAL panel. Sign me. an "Old" Avionics Maintenance Guy" - MSgt. USAF, Ret. N-6395T (my favorite plane, however, is the old Piper Arrow - that's fast for an old guy :)
That's your opinion. We can go on about this all day but you and I both know it was up to the pilots to let him speak. They clearly didn't mind and responded to 80% of what he said with a positive response. I'm just asking you to have a bit of respect for friends here. They weren't going to crash into the side of a mountain here, it's not "critical" to the point where if the guy didn't shut up they would crash. Just let them talk :p.
Decent CRM. The only thing is whatever you do...NEVER accelerate to 250 knots on a missed approach...especially on turning missed approach procedures like Aspen or Telluride (KTEX Cat A or B only by the way...no Hawkers). Calculate your turning radius at 250 knots as opposed to the radius at your missed approach climb speed. Not to mention that your true airspeed at those altitudes is much higher than at sea level therefore ground speed is even higher. Stay slow...granite clouds aren't soft!
I mean that it was their lives at risk, and if they wish to risk them then it's up to them. No reason to start an argument about who has rights and who doesn't. It was up to them to talk and the pilots were encouraging it. I'm not saying it was professional or safe, I'm saying that they had the choice and they made it.
Interesting comments. I did not realize the guy with the camera was talking. Thought the two pilots were helping each other. Notice they commented at beginning of clip "A lot of snow." They seemed to be anticipating problems with landing in Aspen long before arrival.
as a pilot that's completed hundreds of instrument approaches I can say the most dangerous thing, as well as annoying is someone in the cabin talking while im in a concentrated state of mind. This is a very dangerous time, especially around Aspen. I would have certainly shut him up, respectfully of course. There's a reason there are two pilots.... beechjets and other light jets are very complicated and have lots of things going on. It's guys like the cameraman that cause gear up landings, etc...
4:10 - we're not going to make it... If that was the case then why continue the approach? Go missed was spoken 3 times before any action was taken, and more concern was directed to the airport below them than cleaning up and climbing away
Not necessarily at all, depends on the aircraft. A three men crew is better just when it's a long-houl flight or one of the flying pilots is on training and/or checkride for example.
My first visit to Aspen was nearly my last, second time around we drove especially when we heard thirty plus fatalities have been recorded landing private aircraft only. Stick to Salt Lake City at least they have a real airport.
This happens a lot at Aspen. It's known to be a really dangerous airport, especially in the winter time. Many crashes there, even at takeoff. So Eagle is way better and safer.
