@@keyosh1152 actually no , if you have ferald druid arms warrior in your raid you don't need to apply bleeds with rupture then the rotation looks like this 1.Cast Mutilate 2.Cast Slice and Dice to apply the buff 3.Cast Hunger For Blood to apply the buff 4.Cast Mutilate until you have 4-5 Combo Points 5.Cast Envenom to apply the buff if you however have nobody that would apply bleeds for you then you need to use rupture 1.Cast Mutilate 2.Cast Slice and Dice to apply the buff 3.Cast Mutilate if you have 0 Combo Points 4.Cast Rupture 5.Cast Hunger For Blood (increases all dmg by 5% requires a bleed effect to be active on a target) 1 min dmg buff, 6.Cast Mutilate until you have 4-5 Combo Points 7.Cast Envenom to apply the buff
Thanks for the video Simon. I appreciate the comparison of different options - it really helped put things into perspective. I was surprised that there's less than a 10% difference between the pre-raid baseline and "perfect" gear setups.
Hey Simonize! Thanks for all your hard work. I was curious why you would want the slower dagger in the offhand (fleshshaper), with the faster dagger in the main hand (paper cutter). My instinct was the other way around.
@@SimonizeShow im so jealous of rogues. nobody does vids of your quality for any other class. i dont even play rogue and im subbed to you. so good man.
Hi! Than you for your video, awesome as always, but i have a question, why would you equip your fast weapon on your main hand and the slow one at the off hand and not vice versa?
Yep, it happens... RU-vid normally dislikes a released reupload and will send it to fewer people than the original would have but the content fix makes it much better if you just needed to remove something from the video you can do it without the Re-up.
Yeah, I'm missing something here but idk what it is. Surely more mutilate damage from slow/fast without losing anything? Does MH miss chance change in wrath? Or maybe your offhand doesn't take the offhand damage penalty on mutilates?
Having the fast weapon in the MH gives you more chances to procc deadly poison and at 5 stacks deadly now proccs your OH weapon poison (instant poison)
Raid BiS apparently doesn't take much expertise and trades it out for more hit rating/other stats. Apparently the sims show it as better dps, due to Envenom giving the poison buff regardless of if it hits, according to other vids. Think they showed like 1/3 of the expertise and said you just have to avoid S&D dropping. Thoughts?
Thanks so much for another great video! A question I couldn't see below. For gemming - assuming you are underneath the poison hit/expertise caps are those the most efficient stats to gem?
good video man :) I was wondering if there is any emblem of heroism item we should really prioritise to buy first or is it purely dependent on the rest of our gear?
Sorry for asking this again, as my phone notified me that you replied to my earlier question but since you took it down I haven't read it. What's the benefit of putting your slower weapon on the OH? Cheers.
I'm not Simonize, but here's his response on the topic from the rogue discord. From Simonize: "proc chance of deadly poison is always the same regardless of weapon, and proc chance of deadly is higher than proc chance of instant poison on a 1.8 speed dagger. deadly goes on the fast weapon, and the deadly poison weapon goes in the mainhand so that your abilities will have deadly poison's higher chance to trigger poison. you lose a little bit of mutilate physical damage per cast doing this but spreadsheet thinks it's worth it. fast MH deadly / slow OH instant looks to be better in most cases, but it isnt that big of a difference compared to slow MH instant / fast OH deadly"
Yeah I'm sorry I responded to a few and didn't realize taking it down would make it inaccessible for the people i responded to. What Travis says is correct - deadly mainhand gives more poison procs from abilities because its higher chance per ability, but the fast weapon mainhand is a slight loss in mutilate physical damage. the difference is not huge, but usually the deadly mainhand is a little better. its always going to come down to what particular weapons you have - if your slow instant poison weapon is just WAY stronger than your fast deadly poison weapon, then it can be better to just leave the slow IP weapon in MH.
@@SimonizeShow Big thanks to the both of you. Hopefully not a classic thing as I play on warmane and I tried it earlier. I'm doing better dps with Sinister Revenge MH and Murder OH than the inverse. I figured it was just the ilvl difference between the two?
It is not a big difference between the two - RNG week to week without changing anything about your gear or play style or buffs is going to swing your DPS by much more than which weapon is in which hand so it is difficult to get anecdotal evidence about that.
Great video! One question, has bloodfang t2 3p any effect on the ratings? And can you even Snapshot it? (equip 3pt2 apply poison, switch of to regular gear and keep the 5% apply chance)? kr
I Don't think this one works, just the one with sunwell gear where you would equip 2 t6 items and use S&D and replace them prepull, then refresh it with envenom when you actually pull the boss
on tbc you cannot snapshot it in any way on wrath beta it doesn't do anything to instant poison even when you leave it equipped, only buffs deadly proc rate. you cannot snapshot it in any way.
Hey and thanks for the great guide. what do you think about the assa RNG build with 0 expertise + 2/2 quick recovery? any thoughts if it could be worth it ignoring expertise and going for more AP with that build? there are some pserver pov videos of people using it and going 0 exp
I think its a bad idea - you potentially get some dodged Envenoms and slightly more Envenom uptime because of it but you have dodged mutilates costing -12 energy each and lots of dodged auto attacks reducing auto attack damage and giving fewer chances to trigger poisons from auto attacks as well. I think the cost of ignoring expertise is bigger than the gain.
@@SimonizeShow thanks for your thoughts, catched someone asking the same question on stream yesterday and it makes sense. still curious to see some logs from people playing it when we go live :)
@@SimonizeShow you still gain the envenom buff though, the mutilate dodge would hurt but overall its small part of your damage done where poisons is the main damage so why wouldn't more AP be better?
I quit when SWP came out and I've watched others say getting 2 set slayers is worth for pre-raid do you think its worth it? or should I just ignore them. Would like to read others opinions
Not trying to go against the grain, but in a previous video you mentioned the benefit of having 2x Slow Daggers. Since we can dual Fleshshaper, I am assuming this Fast Paper Cutter is the closest to slow 2x we want for now?
I agree. I would recommend a slow weapon 1.8 in the mainland with instant poison and a 1.4 dagger in the offhand with deadly poison. You want to stack that poison up as fast as possible. So in all fights where you need to switch targets, this is way better
@@TheGonz03 yeah because bis weapons in wrath ist the dagger from Lk that has infinit more dmg than the dagger from dreamwalker. So u put the slow weapon in the main hand when it comes to bis gear
that is correct - more detail is given in this short video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_9wc1E1nfa8.html one thing not mentioned in either vid and maybe should be is that mutilate gives 2 chances to trigger MH poison and 1 chance to trigger OH poison per cast, so which poison is in the MH is pretty important.
@@SimonizeShow doesnt that mean that instant should be mh since its the main source of dmg? i got the point of u putting the faster dagger as a mh but with instant for more procs, not the deadly. You deadly poison literally will never drop if the envenom buff is constantly up. Looks like a troll move to have a fast deadly mh EDIT: ok so i thought about it, if u have deadly as a mh it only offers quicker stack build up but it comes with reduced dmg with your autoattack damage and with your envenom. Fast deadly mh = 3 instant procs and 2 deadly +less auto dmg (not enough hit rating so offhand misses occasionally) +less envenom dmg Slow instant mh = 3instant procs and 1 deadly +more auto dmg +more envenom dmg Is 2x deadly so important that you wanna have it at boss fights? It only seems useful for quick openings but it will deffinitely lose its value since bossfights take some time
Oops! I didn't realize you wouldn't be able to see the comments on the old video my bad. you: "hey simonize. ive been wondering when im going to replace my warglaives. any video coming out soon on dps comparisons or sims for combat warglaives vs prebis assassination daggers? will the daggers from sunwell be better? appreciate the content!" me: "im working on combat bis guide next, which will show how glaives compare to other options for combat in preraid but not a direct comparison assassination v combat, that is a different topic. tldr you can slightly upgrade glaives before stepping into naxx if you really want to."
his explanation is that mutilate makes ur mh proc poison twice and oh once. He considers deadly poison procs more important so in a boss he values it more. I dont think thats accurate and instant should always be mh since its also ur main source of dmg
why does asass feels so bad im sititng here with 0 energy 24/7 with paper cutter flesh shaper the aoe is terrible too im not poisin hitcapped im 298 but does it matter that much
as mutilate pve spec you take dual wield spec which increases damage by the off-hand by 50%. Mutilate hits with both weapons equally so you want higher slow dmg in the offhand to gain the 50% more damage.
Is it safe to say that the difference between orc and troll is at a 0.xx% range? I´m probably going to reroll from Undead, but i want to play a little bit of PvP too, in which Orc seems better than Troll
Rupture is just a inferior damaging finishing move compared to Envenom. The only time you want to use Rupture is if no one else is applying Bleeds for you and you need a bleed in order to activate hunger for blood. I'm not sure why you would suggest Rupture for multi target - it does not not have any AoE component it is just a single target damage over time debuff.
@@SimonizeShow Thanks. Multi target ruptures are used in retail/previous expansions (not sure about these days though) in mythic plus and multi target bosses as it provides more dps overall - fan of knives > rupture tab targ. But I assume the envenom buff + poisons is just too strong then in wotlk.
in my characters character sheet i need a hit rating of 401 to hit 12.23% do i knock it down to 315 even thought the character sheet is saying i have 12 percent?
is the 2 set bonus from swp T6 bracers/boots/belt not worth? i saw many other people saying it was p1 bis back in og tbc and on private servers for those who could get them
not on youtube yet, but if you join the discord linked in the description there is a #wotlk-faq section that has many good posts including one about assassination rotations.
I had the spell hit caps wrong for poisons - hit rating converts to physical hit chance at a different rate than it converts to spell hit apparently, and i had both using the same rate.
