ATC Doesn’t Like Delta’s Comment 

SAD! And it's probably one of the best things to do. Nothing beats walking in your neighbors' shoes from time to time!

Since Covid? Or from before that? I know my own position ( not in the air travel industry ) is expected to do some cross-training with other departments that after a year of being there is only now starting tog et done. Tons of stuff to learn about your own job when you see how your instructions are interpreted and implemented or how information is taken from customers.

@@AmurTiger it started with Covid but now they’re just saying “staffing”

I think being in the flight sim would be more useful. Pilots have to do it once a year so there could be ample opportunity.

Don't worry all it'll take is a airline disaster/crash and the ATC - Pilot communication (or lack therof) is blamed before its attended to. Where's the FAA on this ???? Duh !

LOL !

i love how you totally didn't get what he actually means: that going to their office is always a serious issue/punishment.

If you get invited to the chief pilots office after a mess up the snacks are gonna be the least of your concerns. You better be ready to hand in your registration letter and snacks won't be on your mind it's gonna be what you are gonna tell your significant other and where or if you'll ever fly commercially for a long time or ever again.

What is it with Kelsey and a lack of snacks?

The only Snacks are a can of whoopass

I think this is important for many jobs, especially when dealing with public safety. I feel the same about things like police and fire, dispatchers should occasionally do ride alongs when possible, but also police and fire should spend a day in the radio room to understand what is happening on the back end. The more knowledge everyone has all the way around, the more teams can get along.

I work for a class 1 railroad as a freight engineer. We deal with the same kind of time constraints and on the fly changes. Years ago , I and a conductor were able to spend a week at our dispatch center sitting with dispatchers being able to see their side as well as tell them our procedures and road blocks we encounter. It was a great experience and something both sides learned a ton from. I feel like the corporate profits are taking away from these kinds of training programs being available.

Wow, that's the best way to get to know the parameters and unexpected circumstances of any job that is part of a team. IMHO that ATC in this video was out of line and wasted time being snippy.

This would be SUCH a huge learning benefit from both sides. As a pilot, I wonder sometimes if ATC has any clue how much they are hosing us by changing something last second, not understanding the implications and complexity of the changes we have to make, reloading the box, rebriefing things, re-running performance etc. They think they're helping us (giving us a more favorable runway/intersection), but they don't understand that it necessitates a LOT of workload now compressed while we're taxiing and makes things a lot more stressful for us, and often has the FO heads down doing things without the CA being able to back up the changes.

Just like in healthcare…. It’s called “we the owners, don’t care about the employees and our customers. We only care about cost cutting to make more money at our employees expense.” Understaffing in hospitals put patients’ safety and quality care at risk. Healthcare workers at bedside take verbal AND physical abuse from patients and family members. We all have do to something about this! Watching videos like this reminds me of how toxic and unsafe my profession is, and it’s not about my co-employees…. It’s about the “big people” that create the policy and determine the budget.

Just like Obama: "after the election I will have more flexibility," sure enough . Putain anexed the Crimea, Ukraine got blankets.

@@Arturo-lapazwhat the hell are you going on about

@@falubii9712 open microphone by the commander in chief, don't you know, there is no higher stupidity. and 'hell' is where he belongs, and you'll end if you leave reality in games you prefer to play. Nunca deberías a envocar el nombre del infierno.

@@Arturo-lapaz ?

@@sambharr Sorry to confuse everybody. An open microphone is always a bad idea, cuts off vital communication of others, as blancolirio ( Juan) pointed out. And so are pilots fighting with ATC. Or when in Spain their controlers use spanish for convenience, when often merely listening to ATC in a common language (english) important information is 'overheard' reducing the need to verify the position of other traffic etc. Same in la belle France.

The debrief will be, how many snacks are left and why did you have the last one that I liked :)

They will be the worst snacks, like punishment snacks.

@@suegardner that's just cruel.

They’ll be great snack options Your last meal should be to your wishes. The execution is next.

​​@@suegardner Punishment snacks....😅

Exactly!!

Her sassiness is seriously uncalled for, she is this close to sound like an ATC in the Soul Plane movie...

There lies the problem, she had to be right, and was going to tell him. He has a plane full of people and doesn't need her harassing him just before go time.

@@trodat07 now there's a flashback. I wish I could fly a plane with hydraulics (the jumping kind) and massive sound system in the cockpit!

@@Nareimooncatt ikr the FAA has no sense of fun.

Haha, hadn't heard this one before. Great advice indeed!

I whispered this in my gfs ear last night during boom boom, thanks for the advice!

Us humans fully get sayings like that, but and it's a big but, sayings like that will send AI bots into a proverbial tail spin

Phil Dunphy

I work in pharmaceutical manufacturing, and those are words to live by for us.

I thought so too. That ATC seemed snarky and bent on jumping on the pilots. I wonder what else she is up to. Perhaps the FAA is watching these?

​@@susanKWithAnEshe's trying to maintain separation and got bit for trusting a pilot's estimate... The pilots said they'd be ready in two minutes so she put them in a position to go... They over ran the estimate and she called out the mistake. If your ego is so small you can't handle the person on the radio trying to keep you from becoming a hood decoration saying, "you needed longer than two minutes. Get off the runway"... You shouldn't be flying... Ego is literally part of flight school.

@@lvlintyexcept SHE was the one with the fragile ego. There was no reason for her tone and unprofessionalism. If they needed more time than originally estimated for whatever reason, there is a professional way to instruct them move to clear the runway. She is in the wrong profession. 👎

Kelsey is slightly wrong there. When you are "invited" to the Chief Pilot's office you get _tea and biscuts (cookies)._ 😁 As I hope you are now aware that aviation is the most addictive and expensive drug known to mankind. I hope you are thoroughly enjoying your training and flying and I wish you the best with it. Bloody great fun eh! 👍

If I were the Chief Pilot at place Kelsey works. I would set up snacks, put clear cover over. “These reserved for Kelsey “

​@@josephking6515-- He is constantly on the hunt for snacks. Even if they _are_ in the Chief Pilot's office, that might not be the most comfortable place to enjoy said snacks.

"No snacks". For 74 Gear, that's equivalent to something bad.

I can't help wondering how Kelsey knows there are no snacks in the Chief Pilot's office? Personal experience?

Spot on. ATC is under constant pressure to "move traffic" more and more "efficiently" (read with less and less margins for separation) and expect pilots to play the same game. Pilots do not play that maximization game at all, not their problem. I would be pi** off beyond believe if ATC would issue me an immediate executing runway change for departure. Pilots can't do that they have to recalculate their take off data and enter all that in the FMS. That takes some minutes and if ATC on top of that takes it on that tone that would not end well with me.

Agree, simply childish. I won’t want controllers with an attitude working for me (FAA). I’ve dealt with a few controllers that were complete arrogant a-holes who should never have been in a tower or on a scope, but then the majority have been amazingly cool headed and accommodating. These bad controllers would make it as a Wal mart greeter. Come one folks, peoples lives are at stake!

Well said 👏🏻👏🏻

You could tell she was just itching to escalate. She should have taken her Midol.

@LawnBunny777 unnecessary escalation of your own - keep it objective and professional as 74Gear does

Or how about on arrival changing your approach last minute like its no big deal?

…or places he avoids. 😛 “Chief pilot wants to see you, Kelsey” “They got snacks?” 😂

His callsign should be Nougat or similar. Lol

Kelsey should start a second channel, 74 Snacks.

​@@patrickfreeman20574Eats a pilot eating his way around the world. Mukbang, snack reviews, cooking..ECT.

@@Anna_Xor Kelsey doing mukbang!! 😂🤣😂

Wow, that's actually very scary. What i don't understand is why they'll have notams like that, somtimes for over a year, instead of just updating the SID itself? And it's not just SIDs, but other procedures as well.

What about the notams over a year old that are still in effect which change the MAP because a VOR is OTS and the notam specifies some completely different MAP and hold. Why not just change the approach plate to show this!?!?

But they won't do anything about it until there's a crash, a bunch of people die, and the NTSB specifically calls out the FAA's practice as the cause.

@@moi01887 What's the point of all charts and plates being "updated" every 56 days, when they're actually not? I could literally open a SID, STAR, or appr plate in Adobe Pro DC and make the change myself in 5 minutes. One person doing this 40 hrs a week could likely handle the updates. Instead we have 10 pages of notams to sift through on every flight. Am i missing something here?

Your union needs to bring this up to ATC and company

Smart!

Beautiful response…clear explanation. Logical.

Very well said

That very hard timeline, can easily create a stress that will slow you down, just when you come to be in a hurry.. 😳

Most Excellent response! Adult like, professional, safe, and controlled. Thank you Sir!

100% Im with you, I’m good sitting outside of the runway environment. If she doesn’t like it, we can taxi somewhere we aren’t being rushed through our process. From my early cfi years, a TRACON supervisor came in to give a speech and I remember he said: Never let a controller, rush you, tell you how to fly the airplane or be rude. They are government employees.

🤣🤣🤣🤣....tastes like chicken

It's an acquired skill lol

I guess the mic actually contacting ur larynx is proximity

I've been watching these videos for years now and I'm no closer to understanding a damn thing they are saying. I guess I can never be a pilot OR an ATC.

Yes it's much better to hold the mic at least 3 inches away from your mouth.

Taught motorcycle safety classes for over a decade. We taught how emotions can negatively affect safety. Kudos to you for that last statement! 👍🏼

A colloquial 2min means "practically no time at all, you'll barely remember this was a hold up". He was wrong to use a colloquial 2min.

You shouldn’t “get into it” with your kids ever. Leave them alone, they know more than you!

@@FilosophicalPharmer Emotions can affect humans a lot. A silly event I experienced, in golf.... The team behind us wanted to overtake us, boiled up and when we let them pass one player was at the boiling point. Entering the green she "gave us a lesson".. and used 10 puts to finish the hole.... Imagine what hot emotions in aviation can cause....

Anyone know this pilots Instagram?

Just read a NY Times article on the hundreds of commercial airline near "hits" ( a better term than near misses) per year in the USA caused mainly by Pilot and/or ATC fatigue due to their demanding work schedules. Other big issue is ATC's are talking much faster than decades ago due to increasing volume of traffic, and not enough ATC resourses. President Regan's union busting might have contributed to today's ATC resourse issues, both directly and indirectly.

@wtcashel OMG I totally agree!! I can barely understand what they are saying

@@wtcashel PATCO got exactly what they deserved. The schoolyard bully got beaten up, finally. And I would think that something that happened over 40 years ago would be irrelevant to this or any other incident. Nice try with the politics.

@@Sartre_Existentialist I thought it was just me struggling with speed of the instructions!

@@jwill3856 IKR It's absolutely awful and I have no idea how they keep crashes from happening. I would be asking for repeats all day long

It is this type of balance that helps me feel much better about flying. I believe this type of communication should be an ongoing required course in school. Solving issues without blame, and finding snacks! What could be better?

Bad decision by controller ... period. If I was Delta pilot, I'd call when I got on ground and complain about that scenario..she needs to be called out ..

@@greggersism The pilot played tea parties with his "2min" claim but it's the ATC s fault? Figures. Nevermind the lives on board his craft. Maybe he should go work at a bakery and make cupcakes instead.

@@greggersism You think like Kelsey said, ATC set the pilots up for failure there?

To balanced

Agree. Both parties work under stress.

Yes... that ATC seemed like she was just itching to pop off.

@@ariochiv I got that feeling too. She tested him knowing it was probably an edgy thing to do. She must have been having a bad day. She also needs to be reminded there are probably 150 souls on board and that playing "challenge-you" while they innocently sit in their seats is not a good idea. As has been said in other posts here, it would help if both sides were required to walk a mile in the other's shoes, every so often. I would side with the F/O here. He was trying his best to keep the show moving while taking pressure from his capt. and her. And she should have known how touchy an FMS keyboard can get -- if she'd ever been in an airliner cockpit. That "oooh" sounded like she won an argument in a neighborhood bar.

To be fair, who wants to go to a boring ass center?

Helicopters "taxi"? Some of them just have skis. That being said, "just going straight up" could put a helicopter in the path of some fixed wing aircraft, couldn't it?

😮

@@JimMork I sit and watch my local field (in the UK) and all the Heli's I watch will hover a little off the ground and taxi to the runway like that, then they climb forward and up following runway heading. I'm not sure what the view is like in a heli, but I assume like in a fixed-wing you can't see what's directly above you.

@@not-alot-of-options A different meaning of "taxi" with no wheels involved. But every aircraft has to do "the dance" as choreographed to keep all parties safe, would be my interpretation. Same with these GA pilots in major airports. "Just fit in".

What was the timeframe for your time at Grissom?

Agreed. Lack of preparation of the SFO female controller's part, does not constitute an emergency on the pilot's part.

actually "pre boomer" by 1yr@@djjuicyfruit

@@geezerhull they call people born in 1990 boomers. Just pretend they don't exist. They may as well not.

actually the boomers are the ones born aprx 9 months after the soldiers came home after WW2. As to the" may as well not exist" part, can't say I disagree with you there. We're pretty much obsolete now. @@nickaschenbecker9882

@@TheValiantZero Why did you specify that the controller was a woman? How was that relevant?

NTSB has a new procedure in progress: female ATC has to declare if they are on their period or not at the end of any radio call. example: 'delta 2904 runway 28 line up and wait not on my period'

Right...no need to make matters worse... People need to diffuse...not ignite attitudes....especially when there are 100 + souls onboard

@@JK-dv3qeyou actually said that? males - ed, low T? 😳😂

@@JK-dv3qe And then reciprocate , the female pilot must declare, I'm on my period and we're proceeding into runway 28! Male pilot : I've got too much estrogen , can we pick up the pace here!

@@chairlesnicol672 as long as it is not runway 69 -> it's fine

SFO Tower has been bad at their job and unprofessional on frequency for years. Have heard multiple recordings of what sounds like this controller in particular, as well. This is not the first time and unfortunately won't be the last. They need to get it together over there, it's simply unacceptable and will lead to an incident or accident one of these days.

"How DARE you question my edicts, peon!" Nope, not a teammate. There's no particular reason why the airport would be any different from the rest of the city. They have a very high opinion of themselves.

@@DaWolf805 Girlboss nonsense from ATC is gonna get people killed. Expect this to get worse before better.

She sounded like a teammate that trusted their teammates when those teammates gave an estimate on how long a task would take. Her mistake was trusting the “teammates” on their word.

"you're out of time. Get off the runway" Pilots got defensive when they got called out for their mistake on the estimate.

Or the numbers didn't come back that fast. Or at all. Now 2 eyes need to be looking at the FMS and see why things aren't jiving.

@@artheriford Honestly, they really should have had numbers for both runways. I've done this same takeoff with the same note in the ATIS. Everything Kelsey says is correct about taking the time to get the numbers in and verify everything, but you check the ATIS at the gate and if it says request both sets of numbers, that's the time to request both sets of numbers. You're not doing anything else at that time. So if they didn't do that, that actually is on the pilots. I was assuming in my comments that they had done what they were supposed to do and it was just taking them the normal amount of time to verify everything and run the departure changes checklist.

@@ModernClassic I guarantee 100% that they had the numbers for EVERY departure runway at the airport. Delta prints them ALL before the push. The issue isn't getting the numbers, it's getting the numbers plugged in, and the runway, and the departure, and checking the waypoints, and deleting the discontinuities, and checking obstacle clearance, and engine out specifics.....

@@howesfull8 I'm an A320 pilot. It sounds like you're thinking of the TLR report, which is not the same as "the numbers" we're talking about here. Those numbers need to be calculated for each runway based on real-time information provided by the pilots, the gate agent and airport ops. At least in the A320, we can't even request the numbers for more than two runways at a time. Sure, we could do separate requests, but then our uplink isn't going to work correctly and there's a higher likelihood of making a mistake in entering them manually. It would at the very least actually slow us down. Also, it takes time to get the numbers - usually about ten minutes, so we're not requesting them for runways we know we won't use. At most airports, there's also just no point in having the numbers for every runway; airports in the US typically only use a maximum of two for takeoff at a time. Getting the numbers "plugged in" is literally a matter of pressing one button (it's labeled "insert uplink"). There's no reason there'd be any discontinuities because you're not changing departures, only runways. Checking obstacle clearance isn't something we normally do in VFR conditions on a company and FAA-approved departure. What we do have to do is a departure changes checklist, followed by the "below the line" portion of the before takeoff checklist (or all of it, depending on what actual changes we've made). That isn't actually a lot, but it could easily take somewhere between 2-5 minutes, which is what it sounds like these pilots needed. It's also something that a first officer with a lot of confidence could think he could do a little quicker. At my airline, it's literally about 10 total items to do between both checklists. But you do need to not rush through them, which I'll bet this FO's captain told him during the process.

@@janeryan2709 I would, because I'm a pilot and that's how it typically works on the ground. The captain taxis, FO works the radios.

I agree. I'm not a pilot by any means, but my intuition would tell me not to be on the runway until I'm absolutely 100 percent ready to take-off.

@@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28 It transfers to a lot of situations. The pattern seems to be "do not allocate and block resources and then fail while holding and blocking those resources and therefore causing unnecessary delays".

Yep, get-there-itis is also a major problem on the ground and this is a clear example of what not to do when you are behind the controls.

Or...haste makes waste @@statinskill

@@garypudup2109 Nowhere did I ever say make haste. I said don't fail while you're holding resources. At most, I should amend that with "and the failure was preventable and your fault".

ATC doesn't have a desk and we don't have the opportunity to FAM anymore, which is a shame.

As Travis said, not to mention they took it aways for almost ten years after 9/11 too and when it was brought back then, it was very limited and difficult to use.

9/11 brought that training for controllers to a stop. It became so difficult when they restarted it that most don’t do it anymore.

FAM is available now. It’s Not that difficult to use… you just can’t scam extra days off like the good ol days.

@@djborcalli1020 now all one needs is the ability to not be needed fir staffing requirements at the facility!

this kind of atc would have punished them from doing so and delayed the hell out of the flight

I fly out of SFO 6 times a month on average.. We always do that at our airline but to plug the numbers in, verify and do the runway change checklist. Takes more than 2 min…. Delta should have told the controllers they will hold short, and SFO controllers need to get their crap together. Controllers are not in control of the pilots and planes.

Then hire more ATC and train em up. And pay the max. What a hell job

@@peterfuchs4596 good luck with that

@@peterfuchs4596 Imagine thinking that fixing an airport is that simple.

A madhouse. Need to build island airport like the Japanese have done.

@@peterfuchs4596unfortunately not everyone is capable of handling that job in a safe manner and it is high stress

Understandable but you being in the back of the plane don't have pressure on you. We as both pilots and controllers are constantly pressured to streamline traffic and get things moving. It's the industry, nobody likes delays but we can only do so much. Think if 20 planes all had a runway change for weather, all 20 planes need that 10 minutes to change the information in the plane?? Now we are talking massive delays because they can't all takeoff at the same time. I'm not defending her actions here but its just the business of aviation, constant pressure to be as efficient as possible and keep things moving.

Does anybody really care ? Least of all San Francisco or the FAA. !

It's not the place for an argument, but the crew has to do what the crew has to do. And sometimes inputting and re-briefing might take more time due to the complexity of the new departure, the new performance, the different emergencies... . But the ATC lady might have had extra stress due to unknown occurrences...

True. But I realize that if anything horrible happens, ONLY the pilot is at risk. The ATC goes home at the end of the day.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.

@@jomatton8900 Maybe they're married?

Kelsey probably knows he is convincing some of us not to fly. I don't like hearing pilots are having trouble.

Bit late but yes, it’s the same in the U.S. and it’s highly unusual for runway changes in the last few moments.

Well said.

You actually cant.

In this case the controller gave them the option to hold short 28R while they got set up, but instead they took the lineup and wait and told her 2 min was what they needed. Controller could have done without the attitude but she wasn't in the wrong.

@@pilsplease7561 You can. ATC has made erroneous or dangerous calls before. My dad, who flew for Northwest (and then Delta) for 30 years, had moments where ATC tried to route him through dangerous weather or to land on an active runway with a departing aircraft that was too close for comfort. He told me he told them “unable” and that if they got angry or had an issue with it, he would threaten to declare an emergency so they could take it up with the FAA / NTSB.

True that could get them sent to the back of the line for takeoff. Obviously the safer choice, but the controller was ready to send the other aircraft around if Delta couldn't depart or vacate.

Not sure how long you have been retired, but we are required to stop the aircraft and set the brake for "high task loading situations" like this. In fact our ops specs states that the parking brake must be set and an additional departure plan checklist is run to verify changes were made correctly and briefed. I would not have accepted the take off clearance here after the change.

@@chrisstromberg6527 Can't set the parking brake while in the air.

Having seen so many videos of situations pilots have to deal with (lost of a part of the fuselage, exploding engine, etc) seems like last minute changes might be down the list. At least there are known ways to properly handle it.

@@chrisstromberg6527 Given that the comment was talking about last-minute arrival procedure changes, this wouldn't be relevant since you can't stop the aircraft and set the brakes when it's already in flight.

@@chrisstromberg6527 I have been retired for almost 3 years. Yes, sometimes we did set the brake to complete the tasks, but it was not dictated in our manual but was at pilots discretion. The difficulty it causes for ATC even though it pales in importance is that there is often no place to stop and set the brake and doing so will cause more delays than it would if ATC was just inconvenienced and just approved the original runway. Of course...not possible to stop in the air and delaying vectors or a hold can ball things up as well. There is the pressure to "get it done" fast and without error, and almost always we are successful but we are human and mistakes will continue to happen as long as ATC is allowed to continue this practice that helps them cope with high volumes of departures and arrivals.

What’s being done to discipline her? Any info on who she is?

@@jestofreestone1 Regardless of their behavior, don't request personal information to be posted on youtube. The controller might not be the right person for the job, but this is not the forum for reconciliation of said behaviors.

@@DillonGauthier🤓

She was not rude at all, she responded to a foolish comment by the pilots trying to shift blame.

If you believe you can support this with facts, then please do so.

Close half the airport during busy season? Who made that decision?

@@rcbaker2 Somebody who had no choice. Weather often closes two runways at SFO because they are too close together so parallel arrivals and departures can't be allowed, so it's not unusual to cram the traffic through half the runways, but it does cause delays. This is also why I prefer the other Bay Area airports, OAK never has traffic problems. Even when the main runway is closed there are still two north field runways. The two occasions when the main runway was closed when I was home were due to emergency repairs. On the first occasion I got a stream of SWA 737s over my house going around because the cloud base was right on 200 feet. On the second it was a clear night and the nightly FedEx MD11 stream looked like they were almost on my roof. Sad to have moved from Alameda.

@@rcbaker2 sometimes you don't get to schedule repairs around your convenience. Even if it is not an emergency repair, runway repairs scheduling is weather dependant.

Yeah but even if you brief both runways, depending which runway is in the “BOX”, you have to verify the points in the flight plan. When you change the runways in the FMC, you then have to re-verify the sequence in the FMC, then verify the takeoff numbers loaded, then do a “Runway Change” checklist.. takes a few minutes. ATC doesn’t get it here.. she’s wrong here.

You still need time to change both navigation and performance 8n the computers. ATC gives you a runway on the initial taxi clearance that you put in the box. If the departure is runway specific, changes need to be made. ATC here was unprofessional. The pilots should have held short, but allowed themselves to be talked into going in position. Both made mistakes.

You can check out some of the videos that JustPlanes has on preflight preparations. There are several from different airframes, airlines, and countries. Sadly, there are hardly any in the US because of the FAA, but these practices are generally the same universally.

While this is true, the attitude from the ATC that escalated the situation was not helpful for anyone.

​@@ariochivAlso, the ATC could have bothered telling them what the traffic actually was (speed) - so they'd know how much time they actually had... That ATC was seemingly trying to cause a problem/daring pilots to step on the line. I've honestly witnessed more professionalism from teenagers at a temporary burger stand during a county fair 😞

Not untrue. But that doesn’t justify unprofessional behavior.

Yeah in that case you HAVE to shake your head and laugh or else you'll go crazy trying to change the system. Sometimes it's just not worth the stress of trying to convince people that there is a better way to do things. I'm just a cog in the wheel, man.

But being retired military, you likely have lots of practice with this mindset.

@@toddsmith8608 no this business has its own mindset. Anyone from the outside would be like “what the heck are they thinking “. I like the job/work I do, not necessarily the way they go about it lol

Pilot_kelsey 👈

My TeIe_gran ^^up^^

Pilot_kelsey 👈

My TeIe_gran ^^up^^

You might want to clarify that to mean the non medical administration who run the office in regard to financial decisions. I have been an RN for 26 yrs, and I have been an acting administrator and Director. I not only have spent plenty of time on the floor in general in day to day work as part of my job, but I also covered many shifts when nurses inevitably called in for their shifts. Which floor nurses did. A lot. I spent a lot of my time in my administrative nursing roles assisting the floor nurses so they weren't overwhelmed. I was always on call. I couldn't simply go home and be off, and I couldn't say no to a shift if someone called in. Plus, I had the paperwork that was due from the admin above me. I was in charge of making sure that all of the policies and procedures were enforced, and I got in trouble if they weren't. I have CRPS, which is extremely painful, and I ended up working 18 hours on the floor one day because two nurses called in. I finally had to step down. I may as well just work the floor for 8 hours and be able to say no to extra hours. Not everyone in administration is ignorant of the nurse's plight.

Funny, because I am not a pilot and have no trouble. But I have worked in aerospace, developing radios and navigation systems for a long time, so I have listened a lot. Part of it is context, there are only so many things they are likely to say.

Especially when there is a language difference between pilot and ATC

I agree with you, especially this conversation, this really was very hard to understand. Sometimes I doubt if they want to be understood loud and clear.

I call it "aviation speak". Like if you practice French, at some point you can formulate sentences smoothly. Just get the grammar right. I see the grammar in pilot speak. Puzzles me how sometimes it varies as if it isn't second nature.

@@JimMork Not all pilots have English as their native language

I think those are on VAS Aviation channel.

@@gatolibero8329 I think 74 gear has also covered some of them.

She should be flippin’ burgers at slappo ‘s !

That's insane. Someone's head should've rolled over that nonsense.

The airlines themselves are probably applying pressure to get your planes off the ground sooner than later. I work with trains and I can tell you there are rules that they want you to follow or be punished. But there are situations that are creating by putting time constraints on crews while not always properly arranging traffic clearance to get things done. So no matter what you do you're wrong even though you're doing everything you can to do ever being asked of you due to circumstances beyond your control. Just a thought from a similar yet different industry.

The Americans refuse to privatise it so they are left with an overall poor system

​@@Horizon301.: "Our tax dollars 'AT WORK' "! 😐🤔

@@daleallen7634 yeah. I don’t see why they hold on to soemthign so poorly managed. It’s obvious it needs to seperate itself from the government burecracy

There's a comment above from someone who said they were right behind that Delta, and that such changes are common at that airport. And that they as a crew do prepare each time for it. I think the pilot with his 2 minutes estimation is as much playing with fire as you think ATC is. Underestimating a procedure by half is not a good idea when it's that close. Given i am not a pilot, i do have to drive onto runways _occasionally_ , and even though i do not have to prepare all the data pilots do, i do have to prepare for the measurements i take (no not the "skiddometer" ones, we do regular checks of LLZ transmissions). And if i get asked by ATC about how long it takes me, i either know the exact time it takes and add 1 minute to it, or i do a little overestimation to be on the safe side. Same when we do longer measuring drives. Then we can't say how long it takes as a whole, but we estimate that we can clear the runway and safety zone in a certain timeframe. And it's better for the safety of everybody to not underestimate time needed.

Yes!!!!!!

Like the male ATCs use their daddy voices.

That is a gorgeous area...wish I could afford to live there.

@@davidcole333 yes, it is really nice. It used to be a lot nicer. I’ve lived here all my life. there are a lot of homeless now and a lot more crime. Hopefully it will get better. Oh yeah, the prices around here are absolutely ridiculous. Compared to what they were when I was a kid.😂

It was an old, inefficient airframe that outguzzled newer planes with better economy. Simple as that. Why aren't 707s and DC-10s built anymore? Same reason.

Totally understood. But their capacity, I believe, was unmatched by any of its successors. Would much rather travel overseas on a 747 than the narrow-body 767, fuel economy notwithstanding. Your comment reminds me of Americans who went ga ga over Toyota and Honda for the same reason. Me, I'll take the Cadillac of the sky and cherish my memories.

would def post that to shame the idiot lol

Was it uphill both ways?

@@toddsmith8608 Of course it was 🤣

100% agree, when in doubt, don't!

I’m an airline pilot and agree with you 100%. The whole “line up and wait on 28R and quickly run the new numbers while doing so” is an unacceptably risky course of action. I would definitely have requested a hold short on the other side and taken all the time I needed. I’m pretty firm with ATC when they try to push me into situations which will result in rushing and likely mistakes.

@@fox2mike28 She DID give them that option and the pilot opted to LUAW instead of holding short on C. Whether or not the runway change was timely, this issue was caused by the pilot not being truthful about how much time he wanted/needed. When she told him he could hold on Charlie if not comfortable, that was his chance to do what was right.

​@@connix69and that justifies her unprofessional and completely unnecessary communications that followed? 🤔

no objections here

plus she initailly said 2, ummmm 10. So this conversation stated with them having 10min and then like 60 seconds later she shortened it to 5. She's dangerous.

Excellent. And I'm retired underwing!

Yes, you are spot on, and SFO has been getting a lot of these kinds of close calls lately. Not only frustrating for departing crews but inbound crews as well, often having to perform go-arounds. I just saw another video a few days ago about a crew that had to perform two go-arounds. Not good!

AMEN !

Rushing is never a good situation no matter what the event. If you look at mistakes made (sometimes big ones) rushing is a common cause. Cheers

The controller gave them that option. She told them exactly where the traffic was and if they weren't comfortable to hold short. They chose to be on the runway because they said they'd be ready. Then they weren't ready.

You're _absolutely_ 100% right about _everything_ you just said here! Imagine how much better & safer things could get?! 🤞💕

Or watch his videos. ;)

Just tell the FAA to hire another 5,000-10,000 ATC and that might be possible. The FAA refuses to staff ATC to proper levels.

@@connix69 The labor pool of well educated, mature, psychologically fit, well adjusted citizens for the extreme high stress of this career is very, very small in my opinion. Training at the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City is sixteen(16) weeks. Then other 2-4 years of on the job training to be fully certified. The FAA can't hire enough because people don't want this kind of demanding, relentless, mind bending job.

Makes you wonder if she had a guy on a ten mile final coming in on runway 28 right why would she move these guys from 28 left over to 28 right. She's making more work for everybody, including herself.

How’s pilot school going?