A few things to pay attention to in this demo - Firstly No Subwoofers are playing of course. Put the video into its maximum quality for best sound quality. Secondly I think I had the ATC toed in a little bit too much which I think is saturating the sound a little bit and also if you check the review and the measurements I had to apply more Dirac correction to the bass of the ATC to put them on an equal playing field to the other speakers - however I still think you can hear the tonal differences in the speakers and how fast and clear the Amphion1 are.
I wish you wouldn't do this correction nonsense just gives you a false sense of anything... you meant to be listening to the speakers not a correction waveform file what does have issues
@@johnsweda2999 John your still hearing the speaker it doesn't know what is happening to the digital signal up the chain before it how can it? - the difference is your hearing less of the room or how he room ruins what that speakers can do. Why would you ever want to listen to the room and not the speaker?? Your not hearing less of the speaker your hearing more speaker less room
@@PursuitPerfectSystem well equalization is going to change the characteristics of the speaker now that could help the speaker in some aspects if the speakers struggles in given frequencies and you're correcting for this and the other way round how can it not?
@@PursuitPerfectSystem yeah that's picking at straws depends how loud you're playing it and how far away you are to interact with the room this can be eliminated to the greatest degree but I get your point. comment on your other channel you talking about valve amplifiers wanted to know what you should test gave you some suggestions to look out for
That's interesting as I thought the same thing. The classical piece just sounded a bit strained through the Amphion's, but when it was the ATC'S turn there was a richer tone to the music.
Im 64 years old and moving to a smaller place, so Im in the search for what i think would be my last speaker, your videos are my principal and first guide, Thank you ,and i think I already made the decision, thank you again ....
..adding to my initial comment, I listened with a pair of Beyer DT1990 headphones plugged to my rupert neve designs headphone amp and through my Neumann KH310 monitors. Loved the honesty of the ATCs. What a lovely sounding pair of speakers! thanks again for this wonderful comparison!
Listening through a my sennheiser HD560s - Argon 1 wins hands down, tighter bass, excellent mids and a clear but smooth treble - no harshness for me. Both good speakers though, but I'd go for the Argon 1 everytime! Oh and they look so much nicer!!
Great comparison, great choice of test tracks and another great video. Well done. I am a little biased as an ATC user, but I thought ATCs sounded a little fuller with better overall dynamics and less fatigue.
I think that's how felt, more relaxed might be another term. Surprised me since I thought I'd have a preference for the Amphion's, but not on this occasion. I think I could live with either speaker.
Excellent work on this comparison sound demo Terry. The SCM11 is slightly fuller and warmer sound, but I prefer the magnificent transparency, amd overall balance sound of the Argon 1. Nonetheless, the KEF Meta are still a better choice than either of these set of speakers. Thank you Terry.
The Argon 1's aren't bad. They're pretty composed and impactful sounding, yet the timbre, texture, maybe even phase response of their treble isn't fully pleasing to me. The SCM 11's are the more natural sounding to my ears, but I find their upper-mids just a touch pronounced, and their bass trailing off a bit early for ideal balance. They're not perfect, but they are my favorite in the comparo so far...(their orchestral presentation sealed it for me.) Thanks for another well done and informative demo and review, Terry!
Thank you so much for the comparison between these two particular brand of speakers, which confirmed my leanings for ATC even though they are so much more expensive...
Great reviews by the way. Thank you. I was surprised to find how good the Amphions are against the ATC. Makes me want to check out the Amphions in the flesh. Thanks
Hi Terry. Thanks for sharing this comparison video. I really like the sound of the Amphion speakers, over the ATC's. My ears just don't take to well to the ATC sound, as it sounds a little muffled in the bass and the treble is fatiguing to my ears. I feel that I could listen to the Amphion's for much longer, as they are much easier on my ears. I think the ATC's need careful pairing with amps or they can sound harsh. Maybe at 53 I just need a new set of ears lol!
I own the SCM11s which I love and I think it’s extremely close between these two. On some songs (or even just some passages of the same song) the Argon 1s shade it, but then in other songs (or passages) the SCM11s have the edge. Would love to own the Argon 1s too. Two truly outstanding monitors at the price 👌
Very interesting and well set up sound comparison. Excellent choice of music too. Really striking difference in the first track - the sound of the Amphions seems much better integrated across the frequency range with no thinness to the quality of the female vocal over the rest of the mix. The ATC seem to present the vocals as being above the rest of the mix so the resulting impression is a little thin. In other tracks the larger physical size of the ATC is more apparent with bass extension but the Amphion have incredible punch for their size. Looks wise and livability as a piece of decor the |Amphions are just gorgeous, so all around for me they are the clear winners.
I had pleasure listening Amphion personally and its out of this world. Bought Amphion 7LS and wont even consider looking new speakers for a long time if ever. There is something magical happening if you pair neutral Amphion speakers with also neutral class AB amplifier example Hegel series.
Hum, lots of clarity on vocals for the Amphions. Reminds me of Revel standmounts and I guess we can attribute that to the drivers material, metallic domes and cones for both Amphion and Revel. One thing I didn't like with the Argon1 compared to the SCM11 is the impression that the low notes linger for too long. You said that the Amphion had quick bass. I still feel that the ATC with the sealed box has quicker and cleaner bass (for the little bass that it produces...) and I prefer that. Many thanks for the quality sound demos.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I was listening with headphones. Maybe I should rephrase my comment. The bass notes on the ATC are quicker to decay (to my ears) when compared to the Amphion and I prefer that. I am not suggesting that there is something wrong with the Argon1 bass reproduction, some people may prefer it over that of the SCM11. You are younger and have better ears than me, do you feel that the Argon1 are as quick with bass as the SCM11? And thanks a bunch for your inputs in the comment section.
Listening to the Amphion it certainly is a lively speaker, not in your face but you know it’s there. The ATC is smoother and I think for long term listening the ATC wins out but it’s close. The ATC is so much better on classical music, more natural sounding, dare I say organic. The Amphion on classical music is more muddy. Another way of putting it is the Amphion is pushing music through a sieve whilst for the ATC the sieve isn’t there. What comes across in these terrific videos that Terry produces is you can get an awful lot of speaker for £1,200.00 these days, it’s going to be fun to see the conclusion. Well done Terry.
Love these sound demos. Both are great speakers. I feel the Amphions are much more monitor like. Prefer to have the ATCs though. As I said previously, much easier to listen over a longer period. Invest in some anti-shine for the dome 😁😁
Should have been the Amphion Argon 3S. These really show what great heights Amphions reach with a small formfactor and a passive radiator. They sound superb behind my Naim Superuniti. Don’t forget the SCM’s need lots of power making the checkbook balance a little uneven.... Good choice of different styles of music, thanks!
The 3S are £2k so thats outside the £1300 budget set for this test, I know the SCM11 cost more than that now but they didnt when I organised things earlier in the year
The ATC have a superb open and clear midrange and high frequency extension and detail retrieval but are bass anaemic, far more difficult to run and a minimal sweet spot. The Amphion Argon 1 are faster, more dynamic, much tighter and defined bass, power effecient, wider sweet spot and overall, the better speaker for my music preferences, amplifier and room sonic properties.
I have a high end PC stereo system that is better than most audiophile systems, so can easily hear speaker differences on these youtube clips. So I am surprised (or not really surprised) that some here think the Amphion sounds more clearer or detailed. For me its the opposite, the ATC is more transparent and sounds more real on vocals especially. Bass is also more defined, but also rolls off quicker (due to the sealed box?). Generally the Amphion sounds more hifi and the ATC has a bit more realism. But I will say the Amphion sounds really good as well, possibly more cohesive and smoother than the ATC. Its just the musical presentation between these speakers is quite different. A different amp could change everything here though.
Brilliant sound capture dear Terry 👍 Can you please describe what gears you used for sound capture? (e.g. Mic, Audio interface / ADC, etc.). I couldn’t find that info in the video description, perhaps a good idea to include it.
Wow, what a lot of work & time for this Tests. Thank you 4 that.. I love 2 way speakers with Monitor "Sound".. Und this Test was very interesting.. Greetz from Germany 😊
a big difference in presentation between them, but i cant put it into words, depending on the song genre they both have a favorable type. something about the midrange or dispersion maybe.
yes I have the same feeling the aragon have better midrange than the ATC ,I liked how they produce all wave length in harmony, but I agree with the rest on the classical part the ATC shine
Although to my ears the ATCs sounded richer, fuller with a bigger overall sound, I found that after a few minutes of each track, I was kind of switching off, getting a little bored. I experimented with the last track by playing the ATCs first, followed by the Amphions. Same thing: after a couple of minutes, I had to switch to the Amphions, which kept me engaged enough to listen to all the track despite the fact it's not my preferred kind of listening material. For me, the balance between bass, mid and treble seems better on the Amphions, which also seem more rhythmical. Their bass doesn't seem to overshadow everything else, and their rhythmical nature came out for me especially on the Fairfield Four track. The Amphions seem more "edgy" if I'm using that word correctly. Anyway, what _I_ mean by that is that the sounds of individual instruments and voices seem more clearly delineated, better "carved out" in the soundstage, and maybe that's part of the reason I find them more engaging. Could just be me, of course -- there's no doubt that both are gradely speakers, but the Amphions appeal more to my particular set of listening predilections. Given the choice between the two, I'd definitely plump for them over the ATCs.
The bass is being pushed a lot in the Dirac Calibration for ATC because of how they measured in my room to put them on an equal playing field - that is and isnt doing them full justice here but the Amphion sound is very fast and clear top to bottom as I mentioned the tweeter doing more of the mid range sounds different and takes a little adjusting to but they have made it work well I think.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I appreciate that there are technical measurements that help you explain the what and the why, but in the end, I can only judge on what I hear. In any case, I wouldn't buy solely on the basis of your (indisputably best on the web :-)) sound demos. At this kind of price, I'd try to listen in person, preferably at home, where who knows, the tables could be turned. Have you done a dummies guide to Dirac -- what it is and how it works? If so, I'd be most grateful if you could point me to it. At the moment, it's all a bit vague, hence some of what you say doesn't quite gel -- my bad, of course!
@@johncallaghan3097 of course John I am only trying to fill in some of the gaps to try and to explain some stuff better which I don't always think to do at the time
amphions seems to try to sound better than life, while atc seems to be more analytical. for me amphions feels like a hifi, seems to collapse on complex arrangements and mids are annoying on most of the tracks, although it depends on the ear
Great channel, keep it up !!! Very interesting to hear comparisons between speakers, even though no ideal, you can at least hear characteristics of each speaker. In this case ATC is very clean, detailed, but something about Amphion that makes me wanna listen to it more. Have you heard Dali Rubicon 2 by any chance ?
Wonderful comparison/sound samples. and choice of music! Late to the game here, but really interested in getting the ATC SCM 11's. Tonality, speed...hoping they'd still work well in a 10x14 room (with a sub) seeing that they're sealed and roll off smoothly around 55hz
Amphion is my clear favorite. More engaging listen than ATC, yet its not fatiguing. I definitely find myself more drawn in to the music with the Amphion. It kept my feet tapping. The ATC's general presentation sounds a bit "thick" compared to the Amphion. ATC vocal sounds a tiny bit "shouty" compared to the Amphion on the first three tracks. I did however prefer the piano on track 1 with the ATC playing.
Same here, the Argon 3S should have been in this review instead of the 1. Sounds even better. I can hear where the magic from the scm comes from but I find the music matter of fact, unexiting. The magic from the Argon is the titanium tweeter. Its real good, the scm cant compete.
Both great speakers I had a demo of both in the same room. There wasn't much between them. Atc slightly sweeter treble argon 1 preferred the bass I went with the argon as it was 400 cheaper easier to drive and preferred the looks.
I cannot believe I am going to say this but I think I prefer the Amphion overall even that the ATC are smoother and more balance. In my opinion the biggest problem for the ATC is the bass extension and tone, it should be significantly better than the smaller woofer of the Amphion but because it is a seal design does not have the same extension and impact, you can hear the biggest difference in the "rock" section with Blue on Black were the ATC sounds less appealing!
Очень удивлен реализации титанового твитера в Argon 1, звучит легко, свободно и очень точно! Слышал титановый твитер в других колонках и там был страшный звон, но в Argon 1 всё хорошо.
Both sound good but ATC seems to have a richer, broader mid-range and is therefore probably the less forgiving (more honest) speaker of the two. The Amphion seems to polish the sound somewhat more and is probably the right speaker if you're going for the best all-rounder (every genre, old and new). 'Slightly more forgiving' vs 'more honest' ... Difficult choice ... You have to live with these speakers for a while to really make up your mind. But your setup really helps a lot because the sound of the speakers is very well recorded, as if you're almost sitting in the room.
Thanks, interesting. I have now listened to my headphones via dac etc. there is a certain difference, not much but ..... I will listen through the song list on my main. stereo tonight as a reference. I like your professional way of presenting. Looking forward to the next episode
Wow, the Argon 1s are super crisp, clear and tight. Very impressed, especially considering their size. In the first track, "Down", the Argons reproduced the sound of the piano amazingly well, making it sound really life-like... no small feat! I've never been a fan of SCM 11s personally, but I'd like to hear the bigger ATC stuff given the chance. I've got a pair of Salk Silks, probably the only ones in the UK, and I'm pretty sure they'd kick the SCM11s out the park in a comparison... let me know if you'd like to hear them sometime, @PursuitPerfectSystem
wow! well done!! for a more honest natural sound, those ATC are simply superb!!! loved them! those mids are simply to die for! I was considering the Amphions...but after this sound comparison, is the ATC for me! thanks!
Looks like Amphions have less interaction with the room acoustic. They sound little dryer than Atc , but I like that , I love speakers that i can judge mix. Do you had opportunity to hear - one 12- with passive radiator on the back ?
Excellent production - most informative. About the use of the IsoTek kit - you have a *lot* of this. How do you prefer to deploy this? (I think I mean - what plugs into which? ;¬) Thanks for your kindly attention. Love your work. Greetings to one and All.
ATC for me recording sounded a lot more effortless, while via Amphion all the recordings had a bloom or boxiness like the music came from a submerged well.
Argon 1 имеет более точный и быстрый бас и более ровную частотную характеристику. ATC имеют больше высоких частот до 13000 герц и плавный спад, Argon 1 играют до 12000 герц и имеют резкий спад, кому то будет мало высоких частот, а тем кто не любит яркую акустику понравится. Я бы например прибавил высокие частоты на усилителе на +3 когда слушал Argon 1.
I had doubts till I did compare the dynamic presentation of "How does it feel" and "Classics". In both cases ATC stole the show: transparency, mid-stage, openness. For me, clear winner..
I'm enjoying my trip through these reviews and I enjoy the rig that I have now -- as far as it goes -- but I'm wondering if a quick rundown of my criteria would recommend something to try, as a sort of "The first speaker that came into my head, was..." kind of proposition? I live in Cambodia so in-person auditions are a bit of a challenge. Criteria: 1) Must sound unusually open and musical at low-to-extremely-low volumes. Anything that needs 90dB of SPL to sound great is a hard pass. 2) Must be unusually capable with small-ensemble "hotel bar jazz" -- like Cedar Walton Trio, Cyrus Chestnut, Dave Brubeck, Beegie Adair. 3) Musicality and PRAT are prioritized with good but not necessarily gimmicky detail resolution. Cohesion first, then detail. 4) Either powered or, if not powered, sufficiently sensitive to accept non-premium amplification. There will be no Hegel H190's in the final rig. 5) Treble that is neither rolled off nor "crisp" -- the usual tradeoff -- but rather might be described as "liquid". I absolutely loved the SL3000 tweeter in the old Polk Rta11t if that helps. Things that don't matter as much as for most listeners: A) Imaging and soundstage. Most of the listening will be done off-axis and/or while moving around the room B) Price. If a speaker that fits 1-5 above costs $1250 USD, or $250USD, I don't care. (Max *about* $1500USD.) C) Bass extension. I've rarely heard a speaker that digs down to 30Hz that doesn't sound muddy and disorganized to my ear. D) Design philosophy. I don't care if it's a floor-stander or monitor, ported or passive radiator or sealed or TL. E) Visual aesthetic. Because duh. Current system is an HP Computer running USB Audio2 to a Douk Audio bridge, converting to Coaxial digital into a pair of Edifier s2000mk-iiis. Very good overall, especially for the comically small outlay, but the highs get a bit shouty over extended periods. Previous systems, when living in the US, were the KEF C80 (c.1985) run by a Rotel 1068, the Linn Katans run by the Naim Nait 5i, and the Salk Songtowers run by a McCormack DNA HT5 which was then swapped for a Dared DV-6c. All were good, but the Linn/Naim combination came closest. Maybe a tad bright, especially over time. The Dared was a cracking little multichannel amp (tube preamp/buffer stage, class D power) but it was a bit underpowered for the Salks *or* the Katans, the latter of which were improbably tricky to drive. The Amphions seem to get the review traction that aligns closest with my hit-list right now. Definitely not the Buchardts or the ATC's. Maybe the Q Acoustics M20's, though they're not really an upgrade over my Edifiers. All reactions are welcomed. EDIT: It might have just hit me. What about the Spendor s5e? Not a new speaker, obviously, but I don't mind vintage kit. TIA, obviously.
This was quite surprising: especially the 2nd and 3rd track showed the Amphions had a clear edge on vocals over the ATCs but the 4th showed the ATCs' midrange superiority - Amphions sounded shut it by comparison. 5th track, neither was impressive but I'm not familiar with the track.
This is not the first demo, where I feel a bit of emptiness of the sound of ATC 11. I do not enjoy its bass and space. In some songs it has slightly better midrange, but overall I would not pay a premium for this speaker. I had an ELAC 403, and it has just sounded better than both of these. But I am a biased ELAC user 🙂
Wow ATC SCM11 are so spacious but I don't like them, I filed like it is too much and sound started to loosing itself in space + I think that their crossover frequency is around 2500 or above? and I felt the cone/dish-plate-like sound of the bass speaker in this frequency area. Amphion ARGON1 have less bass, less spaciness (because of tweeter horn ???)) but I somehow liked them more, might be that bass is smaller==faster and also it is timely/distance better alighted with tweeter because horn technique + with horn you can go lover with crossover frequency so I assume it is as usually 1500 Hz ?? so the tweeter takes more dominate frequency range which is more sensitive to our ears?
ATC is the winner here. The Argon's sound bright and harsh compared to the ATC's. Argons are also are also more efficient. ATC's actual efficiency ( around 82 dB ) requiring twice the power to match levels not to mention that huge motor system on the ATC mid-bass requires more oomph than the Argon. Level matching could have been better, possibly better amplification also. If it matters, I'm listening through a Chord Mojo into Audio Engine A2 speakers, Nordost cables and a custom built PC with a power supply ( forgot brand ) their Gold standard PS that looks and was packed like it came from Naim Audio.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem With kef, it's always the case that I can already recognise them when I hear them. Kef sounds to me like a circle with corners! Yes, it's all there, but it never comes together to form a whole. Can you understand that?
@@joefernwright6704 yes I can I mention it in the ls50 meta review they always leave you with a sense of there can be more from these which can be inspiring but might not be for everyone. What I also think is sometimes do we want something there that is not supposed to be there are we chasing sound flaw without knowing its a flaw because sometimes flaw is what we are used to hearing and have spent years listening to. Repetition and famialitry are huge balls and chain on this hobby I think among other things :)
Nice comparison, for me classical music is often the genre that reveals weaknesses in a speaker system because the purely acoustic nature of the instruments they are reproducing and it did here with the Argon's sounding a lot more brittle and lacking the necessary warmth. The Amphion's initially sound impressive but I'm pretty sure I'd find them less interesting in the long run, I think the timbre and naturalness of the ATC's are the winner here, certainly a speaker I could live with long term.
ATC have a great reputation. Take a peak inside and be prepared to feel very disappointed. Little internal damping, wire that looks like bell wire. Then the nasty cheap binding posts on the rear. Get rid of those solid links, they really kill the sound. They must be replaced with wire links, any wire is better than those horrible links
I have sonus faber sonetto II and i would like to know if i will feel an évolution if i change for atc scm11. Please, what do you think ? The difference soundstage (deep also), separation between instruments, naturality vocal.
@@PursuitPerfectSystemhello i have the elac carina 243.4 and the argon 1 at home for a week. I made a comparaison, argon 1 is better. I already have the sonus faber sonnetto ll and the B&W 704 s2, the 706 s2, the wharfedale 85th anniversary. The winner is Argon 1. They are spacious, clean, dynamics with good timbers. Just pier audio filante 17 keep my attention for one Day. The amplifier is Arcam sa20
ATC for sure. Built better with better components and have exemplary midrange. It’s no surprise they are used in some of the best recording studios around the world.
Both speakers suffer from the "small box" Sound. But the ATC does a better job in the lower range. In the middle and top the ATC is the better speaker.
ATC has the "cupped hands" sound, especially with vocals, and are probably better for the McIntosh rock music crowd. People who want accuracy and transparency probably want Amphions.
ATC wins - Rachmaninov really sorted out the men from the boys! But even before then in the pop songs the bass texture of the ATCs come to the fore. The slightly faster speed of the aluminium woofer of the Amphion catches the attention more, but after I while you realise the bass has that typical mono-tonal sound, whereas the ATC provides interesting textural variations.
We should real hear what these small loudspeakers sound on their own, meaning no calibration and no changing their response. The majority of buyers do not have or use any type of calibration. whatsoever. We should really be hearing the speakers bog standard sound including their inherent flaws and uneven frequency response in their bog standard sound of all the bookshelf / small stand mount loudspeakers. They are really too small to have or bring any bass response issues within your demo room. The amphion in its natural frequency response is not a flat frequency response, because it has a uneven frequency response and is all over the place in its frequency response.
Your wouldnt be hearing their bog standard sound Ian you would be hearing what my room is doing to them which is not their bog standard sound at all and would be worse because you can't listen through my room as you don't know what the room is doing - plus no one listens through their room because you can't - you listen to it and the whole system, its one of those things. If you check the Amphion measurements in the review video its the flattest measuring speaker so far and that is looking at an average of 5 points measured so that takes into account some of the speakers off axis sound too. They are bringing in the tweeter lower which does away with the mid bass driver overhang on the higher frequencies. GR Research made a video a few months ago where he takes apart a few speakers including I think an SCM11 and he shows you in measurements all about this - was interesting as his measurements and thoughts were the same as mine - he is a speaker designer, I am not so I was happy about that - but I also learnt quite a bit as well
@@PursuitPerfectSystem plus the sound of your choice of equipment too. If your room was dead with no echoes, reverberation, and reflections, you hear the speaker plus the sound of the equipment. The small amphion though has an uneven peaky frequency response for a small loudspeaker, and we should be hearing a peaky uneven sound of amphion.
Also I don't change the sound 500hz and up to keep the original speaker sound as much as possible but there are reflections still in my room despite all the treatment dirac helps remove them as well as they effect freq response too
@@ianjohnhorwood2605 Ian mate found some messurments here www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/amphion-argon1-quasi-anechoic-spinorama-and-measurements-updated.13025/ You can see they are similar to mine and you can see why I found them a little toppy when you have them too on axis. You can see the dip im the crossover region I mentioned etc. All Good I think with what I found
