AU REVOIR OWEN? | TIME TO CHANGE SELECTION RULES? 

I'm Irish. I'm delighted for the guy. His treatment by some in England has been utterly appalling.

Here in Ireland our players are all held in high esteem. Our journalists write with the respect our players deserve. I might point out that we don't have the same soccer tabloid history. IMO the English media just migrated from soccer to rugby

Great as always Tim. I’m delighted for Owen Farrell. As an Irish fan I feel he has been treated appallingly. Players here don’t get that kind of abuse. I think we as fans wouldn’t tolerate it. Thanks so much for all you do 🇮🇪☘️

100% it is so good for Owen and his family from an Irish fan. This must be breaking his mother and fathers heart. South Africa has been great for URC hopefully will go on. To be fair I know you are, a big fan of French rugby. Its is not a equal situation ruby is a top sport in France. Totally embraced by the French as witnessed by the world cup . Here in Ireland we are competing with Gaelic games and soccer so no comparison. We however have the IRFU to thank who have grown the game successfully. Where in England it is the opposite they have sat back and wallowed in the glory days. Thinking they would last forever and no need for forward thinking, forgetting it is the success of the National team that grows the fan base.

I love your insightful commentary. You remain objective, always, and that makes you such a reliable resource. I love Owen and am saddened by his withdrawal. He is a compelling captain and a resolute player, but yeah, he did develop a bad shoulder habit. But the public have been so brutal towards one of England's greatest players, ever.

Very much a fan of your rugby politics. Your obvious admiration of the French system gives your clarity and congruence in terms of your message as well being able to speak candidly about the media approach to players. The idea of seven year time served in the Premiership then free to play over sees seems like the perfect solution God work fella. Happy New Year

The sub-editors in this country have driven the narrative for decades. You could argue that they know their audiences and how to drive sales; or you could say that, as a society, we’ve achieved the press we deserve. It’s not just rugby either obviously. Great vlog 👍🏉

Hi Tim, I'm here in Ireland and cannot recall our media ever going after an Irish rugby player, but there are reasons for that which I won't get into. Our media people in general are as bad as the English but for now rugby gets a free pass as does GAA. We do tend to destroy our soccer managers at the earliest opportunity btw. If I were Owen I would get the hell out of Dodge asap, as you say his family are young enough to make the transition. Love your work, especially the honesty 👏👏☘

With regards players playing abroad, South Africa's system works well now, but I believe it needs one final tweak. Before the overseas player retires, they have to return to play for a local franchise for at least 1 full season. We've seen the Du Plessis brothers, Willie Le Roux, Frans Steyn, and many others come finish their careers at home ... and the value those journeymen bring to the young players in the squads is huge. It just shortens the development period immensely.

Excellent video with some very well made points. - British press has always tried to bring down high achievers, especially those from unprivileged backgrounds (not saying OF is), so nothing new there unfortunately. - English RFU is stuck in the middle ages and are hampering English rugby with their idiotic policies. Almost everyone at my club want to see this changed. - Owen Farrell is and has been an outstanding player for a long time. He has occasionally courted controversy, but that in no way justifies the absurd abuse that has been flung his way. I wish him peace, success and health in this new chapter of his life. He has earned it.

Great takes as always. Big name + Negative = Click. No matter the industry, that equation drives engagement. It's cynical but it works. I hope more people follow Owen's lead and don't put up with it... But more important is that fans don't click negative headlines! Even if you disagree your click is all that counts!

South Africans are proud that our Captain and Hero has been snapped up by Racing . Likewise all our players overseas are held in high regard and their performances for their foreign club followed ardently .

I think the worst part is that some of the English “fans” end up believing the nonsense that comes out in papers like this and then decide it’s Farrells fault, instead of watching the games themselves and making up their own minds

In South Africa, in the 1980’s, the media also went after our best player ever (Naas Botha). He left the country as a resilt and played gridiron and in Italy. He did however return but his hate affair with the media continued until his retirement

I see both sides with regard to national selection policies, but, since I’m a French rugby guy, I’m thrilled about BOTH Owen joining our national league and not being available to play for England - massive win/win for us 😂

Willie le Roux 15 takes a lot of flak in SA, I personally think he is superbly talented but he has an off day or moment now & again and then the fans slag him off! I noticed that Danny Cipriani who I thought was a talented fly-half also received some unfair criticism.

Excellent as always. As well as the potential to earn extra money, would some premiership players learn more and become better players for England by playing abroad and being exposed to different approaches? Also you are correct about the treatment of Owen Farrell by the media.

I love your love for rugga it's infectious. I enjoyed the way you showed the vibe of a wonderful world cup with you after match reports. Keep going mate!

NZ media is scared shitless of nz rugby so our players usually get treated like velvet owls, even after they get convicted of violent assault, drunk driving or drug trafficking. Re Top 14, I'm watching 3 or 4 games a week. It's brilliant. I'm so jealous of what the fans have over there. Can only think back and be greatful for having had a front row seat to super 12 back in the day

The worry is always that the local leagues collapse in quality. South Africa solved this by being very pragmatic. The local league and things like Super Rugby/URC act as stepping stones to identify good talent, who then get scouted by other leagues and developed further in brutally competitive environments. We then choose a mix of local and foreign league talent for the Boks. We HAD to be pragmatic like this, though, because we just don't have the economy to keep our local talent here. New Zealand will need to start being this pragmatic, too.

Thank you, Tim! I think it’s shameful how he’s treated 😢

Great video thanks ! Your idea of doing 7 years / seasons at home makes plenty of sense to me. I was gonna say 5 but 7 might be better. Happy new year !!

England are world class at dragging players down to give them a kicking in the media.

Great video as always Tim. I think it is time to open the doors and say you can play where you want once you have been capped once. So if you are not an England player you have to be in the Premiership to get into the squad. If you have been capped play where you like as long as you are available for every game.

Here in Ireland the players, especially the Leinster players are treated like infallible gods, in England the players are treated like potential criminals. Theres probably a happy middle ground. Players should not be above criticism but only deserved criticism and not OTT

Well said! It’s disgusting the treatment he has received and still receives. We will miss him when’s he’s gone…

Banning players from representing their country if they work for overseas clubs is little short of….. blackmail.

Great insight. Thanks Tim. The new players coming through here are daunting. Watch the international against Portugal. Rassie will blood a whole brood.

I’ve always felt the moving abroad/not playing for England rule was ridiculous. It would allow our players to earn a good salary in a brutal sport AND actually improve as players. You can’t tell me that playing in the top 14 won’t improve a player. It’s bureaucratic nonsense.

He is a great player. Best defensive 10 in my opinion and his kicking is great when he is on his game. Can he declare for Ireland in 3 years? Hopefully.

Great channel! Completely agree with you. It was the world media that attacked Farrell at the world cup too with very little defence except from his family. Great player that has done so much for rugby. Top English players should be able to go abroad. Different sport but could you imagine if England football had told Beckham, Owen or Bellingham that they could not play for England because they play for Real Madrid?! Is ridiculous really. Exeter and other teams are proving this season that when established players go, they can be replaced by great up and coming youngsters

Tim, you are spot on about the media's influence and impact on this. Farrell is an absolute legend and I wish him all the very best wherever he decides to play next season.

I’m born and bred Irish and a Leinster man through and through but live in Hendon so my local team are Sarries and Owen is a chip off the old block, world class player and a nice bloke to boot, don’t get the hate against him especially from his own crowd, bizarre.

The 7 seasons rule suggestion is the best solution I've heard so far. I don't always agree with you, but I think you are bang on the money here. Great video sticking up for Owen

It will be a good thing for Owen to play with Siya. Siya is the sort of player that will make Owen stronger through the man he is. Siya is the greatest leader and people encourager of all time.

As always u r the best thank u again, unbiased

Farrell would have had a better playing career and better mental health if he had embraced his Irish heritage and declared for Ireland. He would have provided real competition for Sexton which would have driven both players to be better. Furthermore, our rugby players are treated much better by our press as well as the union. I also think if he had played for an Irish province his tendency to high tackle would have been coached out of him at an early stage.

I am french and it won't happen even if dupont decides to play in England or South africa. I remember (a long time ago) when michalak moved to South africa and there wasn't any criticism. Arguably one of the best frendlch player at the time

Yep, im an Irish guy living ving 20years in the Uk and can confirm its a British trait. Outside the media it happens. Same thing on WhatsApp groups and in the pubs. People here like to call it banter but it definitely has a more sinister edge!

As always Tim, you see reality and the truth. You keep clear of politics in the game. If only others loved and respected the game of Rugby as much as you do, it would be marvellous for the future of the game. Thank you. Niall

If Farrell has any sense he'll be off to Paris in a heartbeat. He deserves the extra money, the decent team he'd be joining and not playing for the English team as a result. He's a great player who really doesn't deserve the abuse from the media and the idiots with a smart phone.

Excellent idea to allow players to be picked for their national team even if they go abroad--after they have played in their domestic compassions for 7 or 8 years. Thus should enhance the quality id domestic and international rugby.

Hi Tim loving your channel and insight. Can't speak for any other nation but Owen Farrell is a generational player and would be held in the highest esteem in any other country including Scotland and Wales. Being Irish I could just imagine a journalist trying that crap with Johnny Sexton, Ronan O'Gara, Paul O'Connell or Brian O'Driscoll they would not be tolerated by the public or their employer. Just wonder did Owen get the support he needed from the Rugby community.

i am a bok supporter and I wish Owen Farrell the very best of luck.

Great channel Tim. Yes the media tend to say negative things about players and its wrong.. on the other note your French Speaking/attempts was funny 😅😅 great hair /cut aswell always done👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾

Tim you are spot on with your comments, from a Bok supporter

The coverage of the Leicester vs. Sarecens game was very positive in the Daily Telegraph. A lot of social media abuse is obscene, but i think we are forgetting just how badly England were playing recently prior to the World Cup. Not just in results but the way they were playing, and I'm afraid that as captain of the team, Owen Farrell was a lightening rod for frustration from fans and the press.

Hi Tim, another great video keep it up! Just one thought from me. If you look at how eligibility rules are put into place whereby players can meet any 1 of 3 different criteria (passport, grandparents or 5 years) you could do something similar with allowing England players who leave the prem. For example, just off the top of my head, if an English qualified player has lets say either 40 caps for England or played 7 seasons in the prem then they are allowed to play outside the prem. This would reduce the number of unique cases where players are hard done by even though they've already given a significant amount to English rugby, in one way or another. I case of this would be someone like your Maro Itoje's and your Tom curry's who amass a large number of England caps at a young age who in your example (just 7 seasons) would not be able to go abroad. Just a thought, would probably have to tinker with the caps and seasons required 🙂

Knocking people down after setting them up is a very British thing, it's been going on for centuries, Farrell isn't alone. I think he's going to go to France, in part because he is fed up of the scrutiny, but also because he has been given the inside word that the selection process IS going to change!!

That’s a really good idea. Think you nailed it

Good point on clickbait. That headline would probably garner more clicks. The headlines always focus on the negative.

Dan Bigger and Alex Cuthbert got criticised quite a lot in Wales.But Jack Morgan and alun wyn Jones never or haven't been significantly criticised.

I’m an old England supporter and I totally agree Tim, we have the worst newspapers in the world, good luck to Owen, one of the best players in the world!!

Spot on Tim. 😀

In Ireland, I've noticed over the last few years we have a habit of blaming players from overseas when one of the Provinces is struggling instead of blaming Irish players themselves

Could not be happier for Owen Farrell. I wish him the very best 🙏. Thank you Owen for the incredible work you have done for English Rugby. I suggest you live a long a prosperous life in Beautiful France. I think the unfair image surrounding Owen is similar to what (the late) Rich Piana experienced: People love to hate him.

In my opinion there shouldn't be any restriction regarding national team selections. Clubs and national teams are completely different things, and I think (let me know if I'm wrong) there isn't any other team sport which has a similar rule. If I was a professional athlete in any team sport I would love to get the chance to travel with my job and try different leagues. This is also a very positive experience and opportunity for the players to learn and improve their game. And yes there is the money question... why should you be forced to choose between club and national team? Especially when we know how short a professional athlete career is, and you have an opportunity to make much more money abroad.

Johnny Sexton went to France for a couple of seasons, didn't bother anyone in Ireland. Greatness can play anywhere, and Irish rugby loves him.

It's not just England. In South Africa there is a very specific crowd that does this to Willie le Roux, Jaques Nienaber and Damien de Allende.

It would be great to see him playing in Ireland. Could you imagine seeking him in a Leinster jersey. He would have so much to give now and so much to teach the current young number 10'S.

South Africa... praise and credit given ..however if any criticism then it's given but its definitely not to the extreme of what I have seen in English media...

That’s mainstream/legacy media for you. Keep the readership cynical by reporting cynically. It’s why independent media outlets such as yourself are so important. Keep it up. 👍

People who have played with Farrell tell the real story. He is a great team player and a leader on the pitch. His experience and talent will be missed in England.

As a South African , I am not too fond of Mr Farrel(I know that he has been amazing for his teams). I despise unfair treatment. These guys provide us all with entertainment, and I believe that they should have access to the funds that they can generate. I agree with Tim that a balance that works for everyone can be found

It just makes sense for players to be allowed to play abroad. Springboks had that rule for a while but we were involved in a pretty thriving super rugby competition. But when things got bad(2015-18), it genuinely felt like we didn’t have a group of top players like we usually do. Why? They were all abroad.

Thanks

Ooooh… I really like the 5 to 7 seasons approach. They have invested, if they were international calibre they would have already been in the mix. But it also allows a new generation to come through. (Full disclosure: I’m not English…but this makes a lot of sense to me).

As an Irish Fan, I think that it would be very sad if Owen is turning his back on International Rugby because of MSM Bullying

Our press regard our players as national treasures in South Africa

South African here. Our players are national treasures that are treated like heroes wherever they go.

The crowds in SA are good in the URC. I think we just need the money to keep more of our players in SA and bring back the depth to restore the Currie Cup to it's former glory. Attendance by fixture for round 8 DHL Stormers v Vodacom Bulls: 39 925 Munster v Leinster: 25 600 Hollywoodbets Sharks v Emirates Lions: 19 703 Ulster v Connacht: 15 365 Cardiff Rugby v Dragons RFC: 12 000 Scarlets v Ospreys: 11 282 Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh: 7 172 Zebre Parma v Benetton: 4 701 Total attendance: 135 747

Yes, totally agrees. Sad story. Hate the English main stream media. Owen is a legend

South Africa are the only Test team that can field a 23 of only foreign based players and a 23 of only domestic based players and have both teams be competitive enough to face any top 5 team

Bang on Tim, right on the money…or lack of it, in English rugby. As a Sarries ST holder, be sad to see Owen go, but totally understand if he ups sticks to Paris. RFU / Prem / Champ. needs to be totally restructured.

I saw it and totally agree Tiger's have a decent pack. Owen should follow his old fellow here. We would take care of him sure he's one of ours anyway no?

England have benefitted from players gaining experience outside the premiership - Joe Marchant, Zach Mercer, James Haskell, even Martin Johnson - who brought back knowledge that improved them. The NZ "sabbatical" model is more difficult if we persist in a 10 month season, but letting players go for a season or two when they are developing should be encouraged. A mechanism to make it attractive to return might be a special category of marquee player within salary caps. We might even get a generation of props who could scrummage.

(Scotland supporter here) If you haven't ever seen the video of Paul O'Connell in a Barbarians shirt saying, 'the youngest guy in the team (Owen Farrell, just 22) is driving us all to be better' it's worth searching for on RU-vid. I don't imagine he's the kind of Munsterman who would dish out praise lightly? I also don't get the comments saying they don't like Owen, but respect his abilities as a player? What justification is there for disliking a sportsman or woman who most have only ever seen on a TV screen? If the 'dislikers' ever had to put up with a tiny fraction of the scrutiny that Owen Farrell has been subjected to in their own lives, there would be a lot more humility and respect doing the rounds! Just my humble ...

😅 that was a great Nothern English/French accent!

As a South African, when I lived in England, I thought they also did the opposite as well and put too much praise on players. Like Emma Raducanu... And too much expectation on the England football team every world cup. And they didn't help with building England up like that for the 2019 final.

Good idea. Although I would have the rule include an age limit. Just in case the player starts in the Premiership at a young age but makes limited substitutes appearances for several years or conversely it discourages a Premiership club from including a young player early to get experience. So I would go for 7 years in the Premiership or the player is 27 years old or older at the point their contract starts with the club outside the Premiership. On the Owen Farrell stuff. I'm not a fan of his club or the negative influence they have had on Premiership finances for the last 15 years. So I think some of the stick he gets is due to the club he plays for. But I would never condone the abuse he personally has had. But he does have to take some responsiblity for what his club has done and its impact, given that there is no way he was unaware of it, especialy with his dad being a coach at the club for so long. It doesn't excuse it but perhaps some of the rugby journalists writing these articles were London Wasps or London Irish supporters and have made the connection betwen Farrell, Saracens salary cap breaches and the wage inflation it cuased in the Premiership, and their clubs going bust. Yes Owen Farrell is a good player but those Premiership titles and European cups are very tainted. Perhaps if there had been proper consequences for the clubs who in 2015 were found to have broken the salary cap rather than a behind closed doors let off, then the wage inflation would not have continued at such a rate and London Wasps, London Irish and Worcester Warriors would still be operating. The combination of the wage inflation and the relegation threat was a huge contributor to those clubs going under. They had to pay the higher wages to keep the players because if they didn't then they would get relegated and lose millions anyway.

This is a very difficult topic. On one hand, I'm against sensational and misleading headlines, that put a target on individual players. On the other hand, there is a group of fans, that defend Farrell no matter what he does. I think we must be able to criticise players constructively and not auto-censor, just because the player who is due criticism happens to be a legend of the sport (which is what Farrell is). Nothing and no one must be beyond criticism. The key question here is: what did Farrell do to paint such a big target on himself, that the media have the tendency to serve red meat to the masses? I think there is a fair/just component and an unfair/unjust component to the fact Farrell is such a lightning rod to public ire. The fair component is Farrell's on pitch attitude (towards other players, and towards refs), that has given him few fans outside Saracens/England. I respect Farrell the player immensely for his skills, but I dislike Farrell the on-field personality. A lot. The unfair component might have to do with social prejudice. Farrell is a northerner and he hasn't learned to hide it in the way he speaks. His accent is so heavy, that even I as an L2 English speaker with a thick accent find it very noticeable. In the eyes of certain demographics, this might make him appear a little less cultivated and cerebral, than if he had mastered perfect RP. I imagine, that some middle/upper class people from southern parts of England might find Farrell hard to stomach simply because where he's from and how he speaks. And as said, this is highly unfair.

In South Africa, credit is given where credit is due, and likewise critiscm is given where it's warranted. In England it looks like if most journos aren't critical they're not doing their job properly. There is an element of the tall poppy syndrome

Wouldn't you people discover much more talent in the Premiership if you let people play abroad? That could be healthy for English rugby. Great Channel, I love it.

French media tends to be harsher with players with the largest "visibility" : Dupont and Ntamack when they underperform for example, Michalak and Chabal before that (Michalak political tweets did not help)... other rugby players are usually left alone, even Kolisi is relatively anonymous right now. Thank the gods of rugby for PSG and Mbappe for having to cope with most of the negativity.

Tbh, the rules surrounding players right now in the premiership are outdated, as you’ve said in this video there are many ways to get English players playing in the prem without taking away their spot in the national team, Rules need to change with the time!

Great video, and sorry to say, living in England as a former South African common sence has left England. I can't agree more with comments in this video. Ultimately, these top guys deserve a spot and denying them a place because you are too stubborn to change a rule is ridiculous. Then again I am only a rugby fan amd not a rugby administrator so what do I know. All I know is I want to watch internationals with the best players on the field.

As far as I am aware, Johnny Sexton played for Ireland when he moved to Racing and Joe Schmitt said he was allowed to pick players who played overseas.

The reality is that the media and memory is directly linked to moments. Wilkos drop goal, missed tackles, intercepted passes all lead to a change on the score board, and change in phase in the game. That's why the media focus on it

Will Faz still be able to play on the Lions tour? Is selection dependent on where you play or your nationality?

They've changed the headline now. It's really disappointing. He was under pressure with the intercept but I think he's likely to throw that pass. It's how Saracens play. I'm a tiger and I just don't get it. Would they be all over Pollard if he did the same? Would they BOLLOCKS.

I don't like Owen, but respect his talent. He is an excellent player. That being said, the way the media is treating him, is very uncool.

It's all Page Six stuff in England but it's no trip to Paris for NFL, NBA, MLB players in the USA. It depends on the player - but we are loaded with trolls on the American sports landscape. Rugby players in the MLR don't get the negatives - yet. And you're on the money re Sarries vs Leicester.

As a Springbok suporter I can tell you that the highest trees catches the most wind.I am a Stormer and Naas Botha was a Bull. I hated him with a passion but come Springbok selection and he wasnt picked I was furious and did not even want to support my own team. reason he was always instrumental in helping the Bulls destroy my team. as neutral in Farrel. as a person he is awesome as a player he gets away with murder. but he is still a briliant player

Probably a class thing as usual. And yes Rugby Union does still have a class issue.

I’m a wasps fan. One time, a few seasons back, Farrell stuck out his arm and knocked Charlie Atkinson out cold. Farrell went down from the impact, and the referee had to stand over him to stop wasps battering him. He received an instant red, and left the field immediately. For a while afterwards I viewed Faz as a liability and a dirty player. I didn’t want him in the England squad because I thought he could pose a threat to england’s ability to win games. Wanna know something? I got over it. Owen Farrell is undeniably one of England’s greatest ever players. He is a strong and respectful leader, a decent kicker, an intelligent player and if that young lad at Leicester is anything to go by, an inspiration for the younger generation. While I still believe George Ford is just, on quality, a better fly-half than Faz, Owen Farrell has undeniably done more to restore England’s playing quality over the years than any other. It would be daft to deny he’s struggled with tackle quality, but so have plenty other players. Jacob Umaga, for example. And yet Farrell gets the reputation for it simply because he is in the spotlight. It’s unfair, in my opinion.

I am a South African living in England & have lived in Australia . I follow the urc & prem. I find the uk media the most harsh on the players& coaches .

Salary caps and rules about eligibility if not playing domestically are both problems. Good luck to the new set up in English rugby

Hey some good points there but I think the players should be able to play were ever they want ! It a job that can end in a heartbeat! Loot at all the player who have had to retire early because of injury. Dan Leavy , Andrew Conway and Josh Navidi to name just a few that had years of rugby to play that . And then there's winger in particular how manny time have you seen that have 2 good year for his country and then is out or is just on Fringe the team and has to stay because we all want to play for our country! . Its a game which you have to make hay whan it's sunny!! . So if their good enough they should be picked. And if the country wants them they could always pay the club so they don't play on those weeks off in say the 6 nations and so on ! Just some thoughts and thanks for reading my waffle 😂😂. Keep up the good work !

In SA the media have a go at some players but nothing like the English press

What is your view of the new English central contract system for the top players? Isn't that supposed to solve many of the issues that you have raised?