I believe around 90% of us don’t have our speakers 8,7,6,5, feet out in the room, i know I don’t. Also, a lot of us have a modest system which won’t be able to pick up any difference in exotic cables. That being said, I love the way my system sounds, I might be missing a lot, but I really enjoy it, and for me is more than enough.
This means that proper speaker placements together with room treatment allow you to properly hear the synergy between all your system electronics and cables, thus giving you the ability to elevate your system performance to a high level, much greater than all average systems out there.
@@dannyrichie9743 Wouldn't balanced "isolation" power conditioning make a bigger difference, in comparison to eeking out infinitesimal steps with properly spec matched cable? I understand you run your electronics with a battery? Are we on a similar track?
I've been working as an acoustic consultant and vibration engineer for a few years and also have a studio tech background and I am AMAZED by the amount of people that spend 10,20,30+ thousand on a system and not even have ANY acoustic treatment or taken any professional measurements of the listening room.
If you had 5 or 10k for a system - 30-50% should go to the acoustics. But noone does this and it's a waste of money and time only focusing on the hifi itself..
@@Hemshemsems the room/acoustics are apart of the whole system, seems to be view as separate. Adjusting the acoustics of the room/room response can actually be done on the cheap ONLY if you have a friend that has the training and industry experience because you can obtain lab data for as sorts of cheap materials and if it looks good on paper and in the software modelling it can be trialed in the room and measured.
@@aussie_philosopher8079 well i don't find acoustic treatments cheap, but compared to doing nothing except speaker placement and a rug on a hardwood floor and nothing on the walls - it does not matter how much you upgrade the hifi - the room will dictate the sound more than we know.. You can do measurements, and it's a parts of it. But diy is fine and I'm not for paying very high sums for fancy absorbers and diffusers, but sadly more advanced acoustic treatments that work well do not come cheap and you also need a lot of them to really make a difference. Always much easier to buy new gadget that does not fix the inherent acoustic problems we all have in normal listening rooms..
@@Hemshemsems that's why I said cheap if you know someone with the training and expertise because you can use lab data and modelling and measurements where others wouldn't know what to do Acoustic materials are materials like anything else, sometimes products have been primarily for acoustics though.
Double Bind tests are done all the time. In fact if it wasn’t in your conclusions would be null and void. You could never get your research peer reviewed. The subject nor the researcher knows what the subject is presented with (double blind). A third party controls the test. For example in this case (at random) cable A is plugged in then cable B then cable B, A, B, A, A, A, B, A, B, B. The subject will keep track on paper which cable they think they are listening to. The third party keeps track of the cable sequence. The researcher then analyzes the data and draws conclusions. This is what is referred to as a scientific study.
The metrics for good audio in any room is Speaker quality and size, stereo triangle placement with optimal wall distance and room echo dampening via acoustic panels or room furnitures/accessoires. if you wanna go hardcore, build a speaker optimised room first so any speaker will sound honest to their potential but this is only for rich people that have nothing else to do, except audio production and only on the last steps, there follows amp and dac decision, music source but better say mastering, which can be upgraded all together to scale symmetrically cables matter the very least which is equal to electric current purification via generator so you might just upgrade that too with your cables in your wall with gold cables
"Balancing Act" is what the whole subject sounds like to me. Room size and treatment, specific sound applications, listening needs, size of speakers, audio equipment and components, cables, etc. I'm learning.. slowly but surely. Thanks, Danny!
I've heard a $30,000 system in a bad room with NO acoustic treatment and terrible dimensions. The space is just as important if not more than the system because a $5000 system can sound like a 30,000 system in a very well designed room.
I think the vídeo title may be Its All about your system (room + equipment + setup). It is the interaction of all variables that result in you hearing (or not) differences between cables.
Have you been to the Winchester Mystery House? I have the time of my life there learning about the property. One thing that stood out the most was the ball room. The floor has no nails at all. If I'm not mistaken, no nails were used in the rooms finished work. They (carpenters and engineers) knew that metal causes acoustic anomalies. This was in the early 1900s. Maybe you could ask the property managers to do a sound demo in the ballroom. At the time 2002 they rented the ballroom for special events.
Please explain to me how your analogy works that people ignoring basic physics and common knowledge believers of “alternative facts” are now the regular folk. Where as people making their decisions based on the basic principles of physics and common scientific knowledge are being called the “flat eathers” now?
@@Junker_1 Why don't you take the time and go to the trouble of asking Danny if you can stop by and let him demonstrate his system for you. He is an incredibly gracious person and then you can decide for yourself on a world class system? I am sure he would accommodate you....weather permitting.
@@tullskull I would certainly do it. But I live in Europe. And I have the possibility to test cables here too and have done many times. On world-class systems. But I have a big problem with him calling others flat earthers. Why do that? Let's say cables make a difference. Either he doesn't know why that is and he needs to say so. Or he says why that is, and if that is the case then it either can be measured or not. If not then he has to say why not. He is now saying vague things with anecdotes, that is not the way to go unless he says he doesn't know why cables sound different. Either he can't communicate (which I don't think is the problem) or he isn't really honest. He is also saying how different they sound, if that is the case then he certainly can show it either live (the degrading factor would be for all tested music)or in measurements. He does neither.
You can do a lot on your own without hiring a consultant. Move your speakers out from the walls and place them in the basic recommended positions. Identify the first reflection points on the side, rear, and front walls, ceiling, and floors and either absorb or scatter the sound from as many of those locations as your wife allows. Put Bass traps in the corners. They could be simple rockwool absorption panels in the corners, thick enough to absorb low frequencies. Placing them diagionally across the corner increases their effective thickness. Once you do that, you should be able to hear the difference when you make minor changes to your system. You will be able to identify where a good place is to locate your listening position, where zones are where frequencies are cancelling or amplifing, changes when you tweek speaker location and toe in, stylus changes, different DAC. There is plenty of good advice on youtube. But you will have to separate the wheat from the chaff. I got the basics from youtube. Then I blogged with an acoustic engineer (in Germany) for more advice. I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I two degrees in engineering and an MS in Science (energy), so I probably had an advantage understanding that stuff. I made all my panels myself using rockwool Safe and Sound from Lowes Home improvement. It was cheap and easy. Instructions are on youtube. I also attend AXPONA in Schaumburg IL every year (except Covid when it cancelled.) so I had chances to ask questions and listen to experts. (Some "experts" don't know what they are talking about.) Just doing the basic treatments to first reflection points and adding bass traps allowed me to hear the difference when I made a change to anything, stylus, toe in, DAC, seating, wine, even the most minor change. The more I dialed in the room, the more apparent the change became. Unfortunately it also exposed bad recordings. I have LPs that I can't stand to listen to now.
This fella is terrific. Cable and cord salesman all the way. He's correct about what system would reveal what, and the room parameters. There are plenty of variables. Tough to get them all in sync in real world situations across any kind of board. He's also right if it doesn't matter to you or you can't hear a difference, then that's the real barometer. He's sitting in front of a top notch system in a great listening environment. There's always something better. He'll sell you that Carnegie Hall has nothing on his room. None of the measurements stack up at Carnegie! Specs don't even matter, because nuance comes in to play with great systems-even with non-perfect parts. Manufacturers set biases to have a signature sound. Different wiring sounds different with different components, and often components sound better or worse depending on matching. It goes on into infinity. What's about wiring within the building itself? Is it audiophile grade behind the outlet or even to the power station? He's talking about the last 6 feet in many cases. Does a speaker wire acting as an antenna and power delivery system at once matter? It's get murky when confronted to hear a difference. Do reliable good connections matter-on that everyone should agree.
Yes, the earth IS round. 😁 I’ve heard differences in interconnect and speaker cables in my system. Irrespective of derogatory audiophile labels, I believe Danny’s central point has merit. In my 45 years of HiFi listening experience it has been clearly demonstrated to me that a highly resolving system created through a combination of source, speakers, their placement, room treatment, amplification and front end electronics can indeed show discernible audible differences in cables. Impedance, capacitance and inductance can be measured. The width, depth, height, instrument and vocal imaging cannot be measured by scientific instruments alone. The MOST precise measuring instrument known are your ears and how they are connected to the matter between them.
Something may be measurable. It's the listening that matters the ears don't know about electronic measurements. This is why not a single manufacturer will demonstrate blind tests picking people from the street. They could easily do a single take of that on youtube. Why won't they?
@@davidlong1786 What is clear is he's using subjective opinions to support a POV, and calling those who actually focus on the objective demonstrable science "flat earth guys." The reality is, the "we don't care what the science claims, we can hear the differences" are the flat earth guys as it's the flat earthers (quite possible the dumbest human beings on the planet...) who reject the objective science. Can't have it both ways, and it's a good example of a failure of basic critical thinking on the topic.
No, no one is rejecting objective science. I am a by the measurements guy myself. The problem is that many of those guys draw conclusions based on no testing and no confirming their hypothesis. In other words to answer if cable make an audible difference then you have to actually listen to confirm that they do or that they don't. If you aren't doing that then you aren't doing any real science.
@@dannyrichie9743 The only way to objectively test an audible differences is via blind A/B testing. Anything else is subjective and while it may be of value, it's not science. Point being, flat earthers = science deniars, hence you can't call those who rely strictly on the objective measurements "Flat earth guys" as they are not the ones using subjective listening tests over objective measurements. That's the reality of it. Call them "measurement guys" or something like that :)
Pure snake oil. 4 videos and not one double blind A/B test. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Demonstrating that wires can act as antennas and transformers falls woefully short of his claims. I think I would pay real money to see this guy successfully differentiate lamp cord from any cables of his choosing in an independently run double blind A/B test. Maybe a kickstarter campaign...?
Delusional. Obviously no formal training in Physics or Electronics. Fools follow. "When you believe in things you don't understand, you will suffer" - Stevie Wonder.
Whilst I don’t have a top-end audio system, and there is a rather large bay window in my listening room, I’ve found the difference between cables to be very noticeable. Others have also noticed the same differences when I conducted a blind listening tests for them. It’s such a pointless debate because the answer is so provable. System: IsoTek Mini Sub mains conditioner -> Chord Qutest DAC -> Van Den Hul or Audioquest (Sydney/Evergreen) phono cables -> Musical Fidelity X-150 amplifier -> Audio Innovations speaker cables -> DynAudio Audience 52 & REL T5i
A demo demonstrates how amazing the placebo effect is. That is a real effect, messured with science. And yes, it will make you enjoy your system more because you think it sounds better. So spend all you want on cables if you feel like it. I mean your brain fools you to see purple even though there is no such thing.
Hello Danny Very fine listningroom you have. Can you make an video about that room please. Take a tour and let us see the setup with all panels and other good things. And an other video just about your referens setup (part 2)
I second this! A video of how you set up a room. You say in this video that you have diffusers in the back of the curtains.. Show us how you build the rooms.. Video of the room you say it's currently under construction as well.. You want us DIY.. Let's go.. show us.. Lol.. Great work btw.. TY @GRresearch
Danny, how do you think your reference system stacks up against Paul McGowan's IRS Vs? It would be really interesting to have you guys respectfully critique each other's systems.
We'll probably never know, but their new Senior Speaker Designer, Chris Brunhaver, recently made substantial upgrades to the low frequency sections of the IRS Vs that your contact has likely never experienced. I get it though...your IB speakers produce a complete different experience.
@@dannyrichie9743 There's some fundamental differences; 1.) IRS-V is dipolar line source, w/quasi-monopole subs. 2.) NX-Treme is dipolar, quasi-point source, w/dipolar subs. IRS-V are essentially unobtanium, iirc, Paul paid at least $20k, and the entire multi-piece rig had to be rebuilt, including all 12 subs w/12 new amps. Paul's room is a big weak point, plus the directivity changes from dipole to monopole. Paul's strong suit, ULF capability ... however monopole bass without adequate LF damping, the decay characteristics may not be pleasant ... resulting in masking in octaves above. Danny's otoh, dipolar top-to-bottom, bottom octave decay isn't an issue with dipole bass. Danny's should possess superior bass resolution. Both gentlemen are genuinely nice guys, with solid contributions to the HiFi scene. Paul used to smoke weed... Danny used to rock a mullet... Rogan loves him some DMT...
The most important component in any high end system is the listening room. I was Al Stiefel's partner who ran the RMAF along with his wife Marjorie. I've heard Danny's rooms at RMAF shows and can tell you, he knows what he is doing.
That's a good testimony. I'd love to visit Danny personally and hear his new listening room once it's finished. I'm sure it'll blow everyone's mind when it's done.
hello pal.ive been watching a few of your vids now as i do with many others who educate us in hifi etc. i find your discussions the easiest to comprehend. youve already given me many tips and advice on my own system that others dont seem to have managed to do so easy.so thankyou very much..
My audiophile mentor introduced me to Straightwire interconnects and Kimber speaker cable. We tweeked my mid-fi Early 90’s JVC / Advent system and it sounded much better. As the former bassist and engineer for the Air Force band, I was very aware of what pro sound was capable of, but I had very low expectations of home gear.
When I do blind tests for this (which I consider to essentially be double blind), I just don't allow any talking other than an "OK" word to let the listener know that the switch is done and ready to hit play. This eliminates the switcher from influencing the listener and pretty much makes it double blind. If you want you could even use a computer to pseudo randomly generate a sequence for the switcher to use.
I would use the randomized test as it it can be pretty easy for facial expressions and body language to make an influence, even the tone of the word ok can skew the test.
@@StewartMarkley I highly doubt that the tone of "ok" will tell you which is which. I guess I could get a buzzer or something for them to make a noise with instead. Regardless, I normally have my eyes closed so that I can't get any visual cues. If it's something that makes noise while switching then I step out of the room
Another great video! You're analogy of the giant Where's Waldo book is pretty spot on. When i came to visit back in October, I had never heard a proper high end setup, let alone *anything* open baffle, with tubes, etc. But it gave me a frame of reference on what and how things should sound, especially Soundstage & clarity & imaging. Upgrading my XLS to tube connectors with cheap zipcord was a huge jump in clarity from the stock binding posts. Then getting your 16 strand kit, made a large jump in depth & soundstage, even set on my computer desk surrounded by large displays & against the walls.everything so far has made a difference and I'm interested to see how the new power cord changes things. You have yet to steer me wrong, and its only got me more excited for my NX-Studios & upgraded X-Statiks once they're finished! Keep up the great work & videos Danny!
Double blind tests are not necessary. A single blind test is sufficient as long as the facilitator Is objective, i.e. isn't trying to influence, suggest or direct.
If my speaker cables are acting as antennae and creating a noise base, shouldn't I be able to hear that contribution from the speakers when my amplifier is off to determine how much of a difference it could make in my system with my ears.
I have a modestly high end headphone setup (around $1600 USD) and I needed to buy a USB audio cable for another application. I figured I'd try the USB on my headphone system thinking it wouldn't make any difference at all. Boy, was I wrong. The amount of detail that came through and the weight in the lower mids was substantial. I had to laugh to myself. Sent me down the rabbit hole but it really does matter. Of course, you can always live in blissful ignorance and be totally happy and I completely respect that (less money out of the pocket!), but if your system is good enough and you care enough, these things are very audible.
To be fair on one hand. There are no speakers on this planet that I desire more than your flagship. Bar none. Case closed I feel as though I understand the philosophy/theory/tech concerning them. To be fair on the other hand. I think that the weakest information on any subject will always be that posited of an anecdotal nature. Those several people that sat there and listened and had to get accustomed to the track and the music and the set-up and the room in order to pick out the smallest minutiae of sounds and sound quality and sound stage and then to suddenly think of them as remarkably different really doesn't make a case at all other than it helps to be closely acquainted with the system and the music in question. Because no case was made at the outset that one set-up was particularly worse than the other until you urged them/forced them to get more intimately acquainted with the piece of music. No matter how long of a clip was played. And to suggest that it's not even plausible to get a disinterested third party in a double blind test that knows not nor cares not which cable is which is disingenuous at best. A double blind it's exceedingly simple to pull off. Without too much anecdotal evidence let me just say: "because I've done it". 😉 I have heard you discuss your battery setup as your main power. Something tells me that it is because the supplied electricity to your home is not conducive (no pun intended) to good sound? And if in fact it was great clean power then would an expensive, large power cable do anything at all before the transformer and circuitry are placed in the way? If there is anything that I think is more silly than upgraded power cables it would have to be that rain forest property in the Mojave. I look forward to the next installment. Respectfully. Please focus on the why not the how. We can see how it might be considered to be better. It's a gorgeous big ole expensive power cable. "WHY"?!
I'm glad to see you are doing ok Danny, that weather is freaking weird! thanks for all the great information. looking forward to ordering my XLS Encores soon
Danny, so much information here that I want to break it down into smaller more easily digestible bites. First, let's talk about if someone can perceive a difference in a cable, what is it worth. The speaker cable companies that you referenced had a range from $220 to $107K per 8 foot pair for cables with filtering. Before I would spend even $220, I would try putting a pair of power line EMI filters on the amplifier end of the speaker cables with short 1"or so leads to the amp output connectors and find out if there is any difference with the filtering. These can be bought for $20ea. or less and could save possibility TONS of money. Given that the system with the most noticable effect maybe on the planet is there next to you, it would be possibly really eye opening to try this out on a few of your speakers and amplifiers and comment on your results.
I gotta say, this fall from grace hurts man. I mean his upgraded crossovers measure so well and his speaker kits are such a great value and honestly great speakers overall... Now measurements no longer matter it’s hard to not judge his previous work based on these revelations. I really hoped he was gonna come out and say: “Listen, these cables work nicely and look cool. Get them if you like”
Yeah it is sad. It would be ok if he said yeah good cables are good cables and if you like what you hear (basically bias) then keep them and that is fine. But just to double down like this is pretty bad.
You must be a democrat. He's a multiple award winning speaker designer, you believe in his crossover designs but you think Danny either incompetent or deceitful in claiming measurements don't tell the whole story when it comes to cables? Let me tell you they don't, even in electronics. Many well known amp designers like Dan D'Agostino and Nelson Pass will tell you the same thing. Put your money where your mouth is and design your own amp and speakers and put them up against Danny's best. If you're not willing to do that then you're a fraud.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Correct, Danny is an award winning speaker designer. He is not an award winning electrical engineer who is specialized in cables. He made now already at least 5 videos about cables without a single (double) blind test. Why? ...
I'm with ya on most of this, couldn't agree more. But a $50 pair of speaker terminals are going to change my world? That's where I gotta draw the line, because, science. This is my quote, feel free to use it: "If it makes no difference electrically then it will make no difference audibly" That is true of anything in the audio spectrum. Why not simply eliminate the tube connectors and just straight solder everything direct? That would be your best possible connection especially if using silver bearing solder. Because every connection is another spot of potential resistance. So "IF" one changes the resistance in a system, one might be able to hear that. But regardless of hearing, we now have the tools readily available to scientifically measure the difference, if any. With tools like REW and a decent mic we don't have to believe in a thing since we can just test and prove it to be real or snake oil. And I am all about those numbers! Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter. Cheers 🍻.
Yup! I have had many people come to hear my modest system and comment that they are hearing things they haven't heard on their own music they brought with them!
@@paulgyro Yes, the room is double use, so I need to move things around when I listen critically, close some drapes, pull the speakers out away from walls, but it's so worth it! Otherwise, I just listen as background music.
Unpopular opinion I can't live without my adau 1452, can't have optimal speaker placement no problem use Delay a little off axis use parametric eq, close to the wall no problem xd
The attempt to diminish other's well-being because the opinions differ from yours is unproductive to defining what's happening, I want to enjoy the experience, learn, and feel relaxed about sharing.
If a DAC can’t reject the noise coming from a USB cable’s 5V line (which is going to be in the MHz at hundredths of a volt) it’s going to have a much harder time with USB’s carrier frequency, a 1KHz square wave.
Really enjoyed this video Danny you did a great job in explaining what the variables are when your listening for differences in music from the source or the components And of course your speaking from your experiences this is how you learn this stuff it wasn't reading something in a book
I think some definition on what that looks like is needed. Does the listener get 5 minutes or 5 days to discern the differences? I'm pretty slow so it takes me some time to understand what changes have occurred. I would also like to see a set of rules and tests for what the listener "sees" in the image created by the system. If we approach this without judgment it could be a wonderful experiment!
@@jameswarren1831 I agree. If there really is a difference that could be heard then it is worth looking into. If it is just snake oil then lets not waste our time. Not knowing what the perfect experiment would be I would say give them as much time as possible. If anybody can hear a difference in any type of cable (USB, speaker, power) no matter how long the time frame then that is good enough for me. I just don't see any examples showing that these things are not snake oil. If there is any difference I would love for Danny to show us with a test I would loved to be proved wrong.
@@da23 I think at the end of the day it's a personal experience and a major indicator of how the brain is wired in the individual. If I hear something and you don't does that make it snake oil or just a different experience. Would you condemn and belittle the person that heard a differance or be happy that they were having a good time? I have heard before that the ability to hear a sound stage is a latent hunting skill, the ability to discern direction and distance is triggered in the music and hence the excitement, good music, and primal brain triggers:) Over the years of making my friends listen to systems, it seems there is a fairly low amount of people that can see the image in 3d space, this does not have any impact on how they enjoy music but they are missing the obsessive chase of imaging. For myself it's the F#!%ing details that make the difference and to be honest sometimes I hate it, it can feel like a waste of money and energy at times.
@@jameswarren1831 Would I condemn and belittle someone?.. No... I don't even know where this is coming from. I'm just asking for blind tests to prove what he is saying. I would love if he could actually tell a difference in ANY type of cable. I don't think he could but if he proved me and other people who don't believe in cables wrong then it would be huge. I honestly would love for it to be true but I want actual evidence from blind test first
@@da23 It's just a question, I don't think it's unfair to determine one's intentions by offering scenarios. What I'm hearing you say and correct me if I'm wrong. You don't believe cables make a difference and are willing to spend time telling people how they are wrong for what they experience, but if it is shown that you are wrong you will be happy?
Yes to the room, 35-60 % of the system. Cables do make a difference , I have made some bad ones and some really good ones. Room , placement , 20 amp ac with 10 gauge wire with Hospital AC outlets, messed around with a really big isolation transformer which worked for my preamp and Dac , but killed the sound of my power amps.
An excerpt from a recent REL Acoustics Blog Article: Revisiting Bassline Blue "Something clearly had to be done, you see we’re not one of those head-in-the-sand audio companies that doesn’t believe that cables make no difference. We’ve known for almost 40 years that for speaker cables, interconnects, HDMI and digital-not to mention a/c-we can hear the benefits when they get it right and the downside when it’s poorly executed. Like it or not, cables matter and the flat earth audio types can complain all they want but they’re simply in denial. But connecting to our impedance environment is unique and this is where conventional cable companies get it wrong."
Looks like you've learned your lesson Danny. Keep things vague or people with knowledge of how things actually work will debunk the crap out of your claims. Be careful though, some of the differences you mention is very easily measured. At least you are probably not fooling new people with all these anecdotal "evidence". Where are the proofs you mentioned previously btw?
@@dannyrichie9743 Well, your previous attempts at this demonstration has been well and truly proven to be nonsene. So it can't be that easy. To buy into your narrative you have to close your eyes to science and just believe. Much like the flat earth-theory.
@@Fleskepresk No you won't need to close your eyes and believe. Just close your eyes (and mouth) and listen. The differences in cables are super easy to hear. And will be confirmed in the video's to follow.
Without doing a legitimate single-blind comparison you haven't proven anything besides sounding like a charlatan... Why can't you understand that without demonstrating an objective comparison, the differences or advantages you claim can be considered nothing more than anecdotal and entirely subjective? I believe a lack of conviction is precisely why you continue to obfuscate rather than perform a truly unbiased, objective experiment - as others have requested ad nauseum.
I need some advice. I have managed to buy (I am on a very limited budget) a decent system. My front-end is a Nuforce MSR-1 server and Proceed PDT3 transport. They run through a modified Theta ProPrime DAC (modified to have three co-ax inputs, no optical). I have a Nuforce P-8 preamp and a DIY T-amp power amp. My speakers are, to my mind, somewhat special: I got a set of Miller and Kriesel Satellite 1 speakers (with the Peerless drivers) and I am using it with a Ruark Logrhythm sub. Here is my problem- I have to use the system in a VERY small room, one that doubles as my study. It's about 9.8ft. x 10.5 ft. (3m x 3.2m), with a desk behind the listening position. I have shelves (LP and books) lining the one wall almost to the celing. The other wall is a built-in cupboard of which I have removed the doors (it is full of various parts, speaker drivers, tools, etc.). The main problem is that the speakers must stand close to the wall. As it is, I am sitting only about 5ft to 7ft away from the speakers. I heard what Danny said about placing speakers close to the walls, but I have no other option. I want to use acoustic absorbers on the walls behind the speakers, but will this be enough? Help please. If I should post this on a forum, please direct me there.
I agree. I can definitely understand. You have to have a FOUNDATION of great equipment and a great acoustically tuned LISTENSPACE... to then began to understand the subtle differences of cables. It's a bit easier in headphones - but not speakers.
Anecdotal evidence is no good. Snake oil salesmen use it all the time so he shouldn't use it...Monty said this and I concur.Everyone and everyone can stake a claim,tell some stories,and make something sound a certain way.The problem with all this is,how many people have listening rooms,and have the time/opportunity to sit in one spot.This is a FEW niche set of people who spend money,who have OPINIONS,and share them among one another.It's the same thing as If I have a Mustang group,where we all own Mustangs,tweak them,show them off,and revel in the merits of said vehicle.The FACT is,Mustangs are NICHE,for whatever reason,and people who are not part of that small group,do not care,do not need to care,and it will never matter.The PURPOSE matters and how we get there,as singular beings,hearing music.This world is all about MP3,BEATS,and whatever else is good enough,through laptops,phones/tablets,etc,etc.That being said,I do have a great system,that can probably be better,yet since I am a diverse person,I use my studio,i use my MiniDisc,I use my laptop,I listen to my records,I listen to CDs,and I also listen to RU-vid.
I have to agree that noise can cause problems. Remember a square wave isn't one frequency it's the "Sum of 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th harmonics approximates square wave. The end result of adding the first five odd harmonic waveforms together (all at the proper amplitudes, of course) is a close approximation of a square wave." Your D to A converters have anti-aliasing filters and some are better than others. Tubes can have gas in them and the elements can vibrate. Your coils can vibrate in your crossover and act like reverb. I have dipped them to stop that reverb sound. Keep up the great videos. I am looking into buying a kit soon!
what we experience is not reality - but a simulation of reality in our brain. ... and the brain is famously susceptible to all sorts of biases. Never underestimate the placebo effects.
Hi Danny - I am fortunate in having worked over many years to make my own system highly resolving and I know it is sensitive to RF & physical vibration and can therefore quite easily hear the differences between signal cables, power cables and speaker cables. I commented the following on Amir's "Audio Science Review" channel where he feels he is debunking your claim that speaker cables pick up RF. "Question: what do you think would happen to the preamp stage of an amplifier if RF gets in? Let's say a WiFi router or a cordless phone (DECT here in Europe) has a power output of 100mW at 2.4GHz is 1ft away from the amplifier. What is happening in the preamp? (No tone controls, no RIAA equalisation). Can you set up such a situation and measure any RF carried at various points? What about the power cable - any RF downstream of the power supply as a result? Can you actually inject RF into various stages of the amplifier and measure the complete audio performance with/without RFI? As you probably know, both discrete transistors and op amps used in audio also operate at frequencies we can't hear (usually flat to 100kHz) and up to tens of MHz. What if audio AND RF is present? I would be very interested in slew rate, headroom (power reserve) perhaps even freq response, THD etc. The usual parameters. You could start with 2.4GHz and in a second round, insert shortwave frequencies eg. 10 - 30 MHz. Then if there are artifacts getting through the preamp, what happens in the power amp? Same performance questions. Subjective sound difference would also interest me if you can arrange blind panel testing. Also what about differences between class A, AB, D amplifiers? Would you expect class D to be better at handling RFI? Would you expect AB or B to be more susceptible? If so, why?" My aim in this is to find out if (as I believe) there is a kind of saturation that occurs in the amplification stages where RF is present at the same time as audio signals. Although I am a physicist, I can't tell you which *measurable parameters* lead to *audible differences* (unless they make the equipment or component really lousy). I would guess IMD & THD should suffer and slew rate and headroom be diminished but this is a pure guess on my part. (I'm not an elec. engineer) I do believe that soundstage improvements for example is about consistency of phase relationships at different frequencies but don't believe (or know if) this is readily measurable. I'm pretty sure an ordinary elec. engineer would not be able to measure anything to put his finger on and say, "This cable will give great soundstage" or "...deep bass" or whatever. Yet we know there are cables out there that have these attributes. It would be interesting if there were a set of standard descriptions of the sound of cables and a set of standardized measurements and characteristics and then use statistics to empirically correlate one sound attribute with a particular electrical measurement or characteristic or geometry. E.g. Sound "dynamic" + "uncolored" characteristic "Teflon dielectric" + "Multigauge conductor" etc. Wishful thinking! Thank you for persisting in this difficult task of educating people who have not (yet) discovered these differences for themselves - possibly because their systems are still low resolution because they still don't believe us when we tell them "power matters", "power cables matter", "freedom from RF matters", "vibration isolation matters", "good signal cables matter", "good speaker cables matter" just as the choice of components matters. All the best, Rob
@@rcark Hi Ralph - kind of you to ask - as of 25.02.2021 it is still visible on this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gL4O_Do2PuQ.html and has a brief reply from Amir. Best regards, Rob
@@RobWhittlestone Thank you. I was looking at the ASR website. If you comment there, you will likely get a lot more replies. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/electromagnetic-interference-in-speaker-cables-video.20647/
everytime anyone goes to a cinema to see that atmos movie the fader may never ever be set at the same "7" it was never set at "7" when I worked for UCI or Warners bros. And audiences are listening double blind test they have no idea what speakers used in the auditorium.
Not to play the devils advocate here, but anecdotes really don't help. Its simply sad that the vast majority what is covered in this video is not obvious. In order of importance: Room, good components, simplified circuits where possible, clean power, cables. I find it odd how cable deniers switch out tubes to tweak their system sound and performance. Tubes of same type, which are really not much different between manufactures other than materials used - being part of the amplification effectively heighten the difference between conductor materials and how they carry signal. You can't say one is true and not the other.
Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection. The treatment behind the center of the sound stage does not accomplish anything. Use geometry to calculate where the reflections from the speakers will return to the listener. Create a Reflection Free Zone at the listening position. The stereophonic spatial effect is artificial. The stereophonic spatial effect does not replicate natural auditory spatial cues. Phantom stereophonic images are illusions created at the listener's ears, not between the speakers or in the listening room. Sound is produced by the speakers, not by phantom stereophonic images. Sound from speakers reflects from listening room surfaces. There is no sound from phantom stereophonic images to reflect from listening room surfaces. Speaker power response does not replicate the power response of singers and musical instruments in the recording.
Probably because the compression and sound quality of RU-vid as well as your device isn't going to reveal the differences because the quality of the output is far too poor to be valuable.
@@Furax02 I would like to see people doing blond tests on their end. Having someone change cables and having the listener consistantly picking the more expensive cable.
Great video To summarize there is a lot more grey than black or white - “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”
Newbie question- I’m building my Encores. Would there be an advantage to skipping the binding post and solder the speaker wires direct to the crossover?
You can do that, but then when you want to upgrade the speaker cables it makes it pretty tough. The tube connectors are a great connector and comparable to no connector (directly soldered) as they are a pure Copper tube. By using the tube connectors you can swap out speaker cables easily.
There are 3 main items needed to be addressed in any sound system. A. The rooms acoustic B. The speaker positioning C. The power cable alignment sequence If they are not addressed correctly, then don't bother buying into high end audio. You will just be wasting your time and money.
This whole video is, in my humble experience, 100% true. The more one does with acoustics, the more eye opening the effect acoustics has on things becomes. I essentially haven’t touched the equipment in my systems in a year and half and yet… i continually improve the sound as I refine the acoustic solutions in my two rooms. Danny is hands down the most honest and true source of audio info for the enthusiast (the pro world has been savvy about acoustics for awhile now).
In the comments of the last video, I said this " I think cables make a difference but only if you have the rest of your system at a high level. Some people spend thousands of dollars on cables but only spend a $1 on room treatment." Danny explained it much better in this video than I did but i had a feeling he was going to go in that direction. did
You can't have it both ways. You can't do all the fancy measurements of speakers and talk about how those metrics affect sound, then talk about how cables affect sound without only anecdotes. Where's the data? I'm not a flat earther, and I'm not asking for a double blind test. Please provide us with data that shows a measurable difference between two cables in otherwise identical systems and rooms. Then we can assess how that will affect what we hear. Thank you.
We can show a lot of differences in the way cables measure. They all have a difference in inductance, capacitance, and resistance. We can get a measured dissipation rate of the dielectric material. We can measure what it picks up as an antenna too. Now which of these measurements correlates to why one pair of cables allows for a layered sound stage and the next set of cables causes a flat sound stage? At some point you have to start listening.
Measure it, don't just say things. Show the stuffs like the usual, in dB - in relation to the signal, OR you can do a NULL test for those cables, see if it does affect the sound. NULL test is the best for this kind of testing.
@@kdomster9141 IF there is ANY difference, then it should be quantifiable in dB. If it is not quantifiable using dB, then use other metrics, don't just "Listen". We are typing into the void of internet here, audio in youtube are compressed (as in bit rate) and does not show the true quality. The only thing that people can relate is dB measurement. I think that's reasonable - for science.
@@kdomster9141 I see, good for you then. Good luck with your adventure in the audio world... I'd rather go with something that I can quantify than just listening with my ears. At times, when I have the flu, my ears will "malfunction" for a bit, that's where I need measuring equipment to tune my system - and to base my gear purchase off something quantifiable.
@@zzz2496 Absolutely you have to trust your ears and soemtimes when sick or with clogged ears you will not hear the same but I bet it will measure the same so what counts more? Answer yourself.
Power cables will be interesting. I can accept audio cables make a difference. But power cables goes into snake oil territory in my head. I am open to changing that opinion.
Danny, What is funny - I watch all of your vids - Trust every thing you are saying and you make great comparisons - You use real experiences and some direct testing - Then you compare folks who lean towards the earth being flat as to those who do not believe you and think this is all snake oil - Was it the 'flat earth' guys that called this snake oil? Or, was it people who believe we or living on a spinning ball? - You have said that you do not want to make this a flat earth argument, but yet you compare 'flat earth' folks to people that do not believe you. Maybe, it is the other way around? A $500 kit speaker sounding better than many speakers 10 times their price? Yep, I believe this and you show directly how this works. And yet, I do not feel I am on a spinning ball going 2.2 million miles per hour through some vortex in space. Maybe, there is another analogy which would be more applicable = "People that believe everything on the news and what our government says' - Thanks again for another great vid - And to those who want to make this an argument - please read who this comment was addressed to and respect Danny's request of not making this an argument about 'flat earth' - Thanks
So you think a blind test is of value? and that it's all about enjoying the music? Ok that's fine. But without a blind test, then there is user bias. Users buying new and expensive gear will 9 out 10 say the new gear sounds better, that's confirmation bias. If you want spend your money and say your system is badass, that's fine. If you're pushing to sell stuff, that's fine. But don't say blind tests have no value in determing the truth of something, because when you say that, that makes you sound nonscientific and more like a salesman dude
Quite the back track from your previous two videos. In those videos you stated "cable's make a difference" if you don't believe it your a flat earther. Today you say "IF you hear a difference, good for you, IF you you don't" That up to you, your ears. (you don't have to prove it to anyone) That's a big difference from stating they 100% make a difference and here's the proof. So much double talk going on. Just admit you messed up, you got called out with this video series. You can easily prove cables make a difference by "repeating" the test with the same outcome. Resistance is futile. Maybe test HDMI cables and why the picture improves with $400 Audioquest cables vs $20 HDMI off brand cables.
Oh man, you don't understand what a double blind test is. There are people that can easily organise a double blind test for you since you have no idea how to do it.
No, I know how it's done. And unfortunately most people don't understand that the guys swapping the cables can see the cables. They have to. So they will never be blind to the results. And it doesn't matter if they know or not.
@@dannyrichie9743 ah... The person swapping the cables can see them without knowing which one is which, for them they would just be marked A or B. Double blind doesn't mean that no one is alowed to see what they are doing. It can also be done by conecting everything to an amp with two switchable speaker outputs and hiding cabels feom the person switching them. There are many ways of doing this and it sounds like you are just looking for excuses to not do a double blind test.
@@emilspec1227 The difference in the size of the cables are much to great to not notice which is which. You can't hide them from the person doing the switching, nor does it matter. Just blind fold the listener and nothing else matters.
@@dannyrichie9743 you're just looking for excuses not to do one. After all if you wanted to show us how much better your cables are you would show us measurements in real time comparing them to cheap speaker wire and not use induction coils in your previous video.
@@emilspec1227 Oh, there will be some blind listening comparisons. Initial comparisons suggest differences so easy to hear that the crappy microphone on the camera pics them up.
Well done, Danny! If the nay sayers would simply try your informed suggestions for themselves, rather than cling tightly to their preconceived notions, they would experience increased musicality and perhaps become less bitter!
Soundstage is always the big tell in my experience with cable comparisons. Seems like large soundstage with pinpoint accuracy is associated with better cables.
hi Danny, i'd really like your take on how to build tube traps for bass. from what i've seen so far you probably already have a video planned on it? thanks
i just want to see one person demonstrate that they can identify in an AB test that a speaker cable was swapped, and even better, if you can tell me which one is being used. (without being able to see it of course) - one video. it would shut me and a lot of other people up permanently.
well, feel like i need to return to this comment to say i might need to admit i was wrong on this. i came across the exact kind of demonstration that i was looking for, here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_llTvQaqSds.html the video's author mentions that it's slight, yet enough that i would like to hear for myself. guess i'll be ordering some of your speaker wire at some point. you seem to be one of the least snake-oily types of audio related companies out there, so i feel like i should apologize for passing judgement without hearing first for myself.
A lot of people get all bent out of shape because of speaker cables its so funny lol. What ever works best for you and your system is all that matters.
I thought this was BS, but I bought a Audio Quest Carbon USB cable for my Dac and man that cheap printer cable was .... hard to describe like muffling slightly the sound and making things sound narrow. My friend was also able to hear the difference. I didn't tell him what I had changed he just thought I went from Lo Res mp3 files to Flac ..lol
This only way this is possible is if the bit rate of the Audio Quest was higher letting a higher quality audio format be passed through. There are clear USB specs that include controllers and cables and must be met or there are connection issues leading to drops, pops, etc or a fall back to lower transmission rates.
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 I generally agree but I believe I've ran into audio devices auto negotiate bit rates based on available bandwidth. But if a device can't, unlike analog, it just pain won't work as it can't.
