Australian Trams. Their Rise, Fall & Return (sort of) 

Yes agree! Thanks for watching and the comments. Appreciate it.

This young gentleman loves ❤️ history and the work he does. Is fantastic. Why. ? You show me history. He does .God bless. He digs up history. No payment A young man that takes the time to show history. That museum don't. Do. I trully injoy the time and efforts this young does...... God bless.

Thanks for the info. Good to know. I have not been to either city for a while. So now having made this video - looking forward to seeing them again. I am always on the look out for abandoned tracks of the old networks.

Melbourne’s city circle trams were originally built for Melbourne, they’re not original Bendigo trams. Bendigo Tramways are really good at restoring old trams though, so they have restored and converted the W8 trams now running as Route 35. The depot is currently undergoing redevelopment and can take the 30 retired W-Class trams currently in storage (I believe from Newport and Preston). Hopefully they will convert more trams to provide an improved city circle tram route! I’d even love to see them run a new route down to Port Melbourne and along the waterfront to Acland St/Luna Park as I think it’d be a great tourist route and it’d make a lot more sense than the current Route 12!

I guess the underlying issue is that building trams / light rail in Australia (or any infrastructure) is so expensive - so tends to get political very quickly. I read recently how more cheaply Europe is building it's new light rail systems (vs the UK and also assume Australia) if we could build more cheaply - partially by not over engineering everything - that may help..

Thanks the additional detail. Yes like the idea of inland / westward running lines... I know that has been considered in the past. Hope to make a Coast Coast specific video one day.. your info is really helpful. Cheers

Glad you enjoyed it!

Your talking about the H class trams

Yeah I miss the old trams, new ones are so exciting

Glad you enjoyed it!

Shame the original design dream wasn't realised.

Yea it could eliminate a lot of the traffic congestion in peak hour around brisbane

I am with you.. and I am no transport expert... but Adelaide is one city that is perfectly suited to light rail.. flat... straight... compact.. and now so much renewable energy to power electric transport..

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks.

Agree 💯 One man who literally sealed Brisbane's fate with constant traffic woes for decades to come..

Yep, love them and couldn’t do without them. But 50 years of minimal investment or improvement, and continued prioritisation of cars, really made the trams a lot worse

I don't live in Melbourne so don't get to ride them much. After seeing these comments did a search and saw this announcement of some investment. Not sure its great or not enough? Disappointing it doesn't say any extension to any lines? www.premier.vic.gov.au/delivering-modern-trams-future

Glad you liked it!

Yes 100 percent young man. God bless)

Agree. But in good new only in the last weeks I read that the state government has announced more investment in upgrading infrastructure, particularly tram stations. Although would’ve been nice to see some extensions to the system as well.

Thanks. Yes as the systems change so much over the years - I had to pick a moment in time to give the stats. For Melbourne it was at today - not at peak. Thanks. The Brisbane lines are a bit tricky. I picked the early 1960s - and from what I can see there were 13 routes operational. But yes another 5 at least had been closed prior to 1960. Yes so possible there upwards of 25 different routes over time.. will do some more investigation. Thanks.

Thanks. Great to know. I will do some research on it. Will be sure to include it when (one day) I can do a full video on Adelaide's trams. Thanks again.

Much appreciated!

Marty I will Remmber now. Fantastic young man. God bless)

Melbourne actually had a far larger and more extensive network in the 60s, it's lost about 50% of his tram network. But unlike many other major world cities it decided to keep what was left before completely tearing it all down...

@@truthfacts5438 the only main lost of the Melbourne tram system was the closing down of the two lines the Victorian railways operated and two minor MMTB lines, the Point Ormond Tramline and the Footscray local lines. However since then, the Melbourne tram system has been greatly extended like extensions to Bundoora, Box Hill, Vermont South and to the Docklands. More are planned.

I have always had an interest in trams, and like you when I looked into it, I hadn't realised how many places did actually have trams... like Broken Hill?

Yes even more so knowing it really only replaced an existing heavy rail line. But it's a start.. maybe the extension from the CBD to the Broadmeadow may happen.. batteries or not :)

I used to be a Newcastle resident, the current state of public transport in Newcastle is a joke. Newcastle had reliable heavy rail service into the CBD but was ripped up because our mayor at the time bent over backwards for property developers that built projects that soon turned Newcastle into an overpriced gentrified city. The light rail is honestly useless. The length is really short and only really goes through the CBD to Newcastle Beach. If the tram line extended to car dependent suburbs like Charlestown or Kotara or even John Hunter hospital then I would be for it but unfortunately, I don't see this happening in my lifetime. Even if they do, they'll find a way to screw it up. I would honestly rank the Newcastle tram line last out of Adelaide, Gold Coast, Sydney and Melbourne (all four in no particular order).

Thanks for watching. Yes quite a bit to cover off in a video which I try to keep under about 13 minutes. I do quickly mention the new Newcastle line at about four minutes in but it’s pretty quick.

Thanks. So good to hear stories like this. Thanks for the share... I have a day job nothing to do with transport.. so I just hope I have enough time to cover all these networks in more detail.. would love to reach out to you when the time comes to do Launceston... backtracks.channel@gmail.com

We lived in Waverley, not sure what line he was on.

Interesting! Thanks for the share. Would be a ride with great views if they did build it up the mountain.

Ha, yes I am sure it's hard to order a Resches or Toohey's beer in a Christchurch pub or get at BEX from the Chemist there :)

Thanks. Yes good point. I missed mentioning Stage 2A. I only actually filmed that construction 6 weeks back (when I filmed the Canberra trams in the video) so should have remembered :) Agree they certainly do have a huge construction footprint for such short extension

Thanks for watching and feeding back. I have been to Portland, but it was before the tourist tram was in operation. So can only report what is on the internet.. from what I gather the "grip cars" are replicas.. ie not real.. but the trailer cars are real and once run on the Melbourne Cable tram network. Let's do some more research.. love finding out about history of our trams :)

She wasn't hit. She was climbiing over the drawbar between two coupled trams and as she did that the tram took off. There is a physical barrier and signage but she chose to try her luck anyway. Yes, it is sad but also a hard way to learn to obey rules. Others ahve been nudged by trams (on all systems) because they refuse to keep their phones in their pockets whilst walking.

Amen . . .

Thanks. Interesting eh. Yes I made the opening map for the video when I had read there was a tram from Campbelltown to Camden. But then researching it more it sounded more like a light railway and then I couldn't find any images of the 'tram' when it ran - only of trains when it became a train line. So took it out as I thought I would confuse viewers by saying there was a tram but only showing a train. I went down to Camden and filmed the present day terminus at Camden - but didn't end up using the footage in this video. I have on my list to one day do a full story on the line - once I know a bit more about it. Cheers.

Thanks for the additional information. Appreciate it. I will do some reading up on those. I recall reading there were also lines to Bexley and Cronulla. But they closed a bit earlier.

Yes, the Bexley and Cronulla trams were steam. Other separate electric tram systems in Sydney not connected with the main network included: Rockdale and Concord.

Tram line to cronulla was part of the sydney network and the Royal Nat Park branch was a trainline converted for the tramway museum.

Thanks for the share. Agree. Parramatta is so much past and current Tram history. I’m slowly getting to know it. including the steam tram museum that then burnt down in the 80s. Yes, could you imagine a train line that still ran to from Parramatta to Castle Hill today so shortsighted they got rid of it.

The Castle Hill tram-line was connected to the main rail network just to the eastern side of Parramatta Station. a short section of the link was retained well into the late 1990s as a local flour mill was able to make use of it. It seems though that it is now gone as there was a redevelopment of the site some 20+ years ago.

Oh, that is really interesting.. I have had real challenges finding a map of the railway line from Westmead to Woollen Mills (where it then rejoined the original tram line). I found a 1943 aerial image which I could trace it's route.. I can see all the new estates and the hospital that now has been build over the original line.

Thanks - yes trying to keep the video under about 12-13 mins - i couldn't fit all of them in. The isolated lines of the Sydney System like Rockdale, Kogarah, Bexley, Cronulla, Enfield etc were covered in the stats of the Sydney system but didn't have time to mention specifically. BackTracks does hope to make separate videos on these lines (There is one on Rockdale already).

Thanks. Very interesting. Cheers M

Thanks for sharing. yes I should mention that in a future video. Just looked it up and it in 1889. That was early. And was 4 years before Sydney had it's first one.

Thanks. Well spotted... after 15,000 views no one picked that up.. and I watched myself twice and only realised the second time.. thanks.. yes 1896 is correct.. cheers!

Thanks. Yes the Camden line is a bit confusing. I had read there was a tram from Campbelltown to Camden. But then researching it more it sounded more like a light railway and then I couldn't find any images of the 'tram' when it ran - only of trains when it became a train line. It did start originally with Baldwin Steam Tram Motors.. and then later the train was called the Pansy Tram and the Camden tram.. so it's confusing! And the Morpeth line - Could be wrong but was that not one of the lines of the Maitland system (it had 2 lines from memory?). Good discussion. Thanks.

They are really nice trams to ride in. The Red does look good. Agree. But not sure if you agree, but the use of the same trams in more and more networks, sort of takes a bit of the nice differences that there used to be between networks. I just looked it up and over 30 cities have URBOS 3s now.. Including the three networks in New South Wales...

I just looked up the Midland's Metro. I don't mind the Blue livery. Funny actually I thought that the new light rail in NSW should be BLUE as that is the state's colour. I guess RED is safer and don't they say that Red Cars go faster.. so assume that works the same for trams? :)

Woops. Yes Thanks. But I guess if you go the long way round its West? :) I will make a note of the error in the comments. Thanks.

Thanks. Yes some are a bit 50:50 agree. I followed what generally people were calling trams or light rail in the research I read. Cairns was one that from what I could saw sort of looked like a train. I left out Toronto NSW and Camden NSW in the end - as the did look more like light trains than light rail or trams - but in some instances they were being called trams.

Thanks. Good one. that’s very interesting. Improving battery technology is certainly get up end a whole lot of industries including transport.

Is that like uncordless drills ?

Yeh I live in camden and was so excited to see. Never heard of trams I'm camden before!!

Thanks both, I made the map first when I had read there was a tram from Campbelltown to Camden. But then researching it more it sounded more like a light railway.. and I couldn't find any images of the 'tram' when it ran - only of trains when it became a train line. So I thought I would take it out as I thought I would confuse people by saying there was a tram but only showing a train. I did go out there and film the present day terminus at Camden - but didn't end up using the footage. I have on my list to one day do a full story on the line - but only when I research more about it.

@m54n69 I did get a reply. Buy he did explain. In future will show. My hats of to this young man that shows history of the past. I appreciate his efforts. So history is not lost. Take care my friend)

There are a couple of clips on RU-vid showing the Camden line, some of them very high quality, and including one of its last day of operation. It ran between Campbelltown and Camden, rather than serving those townships internally. I think it used the third platform at Campbelltown station and ran to the edge of Camden (but not through it). I don't think it ever operated trams as such, but a short steam hauled train. However, it was constructed to tramway, not railway, standards; and was referred to as a tramway. Technically it is probably a tram system. and certainly had tram-like inclines and curves. I think of it as a steam-powered light rail system operating within its own right of way.. It followed the road from Campbelltown to Narellan, and crossed the old highway (now Camden Valley Way) at Narellan, just near what is now the local Maccas, who have pictures of it (or did last time I was there) on their walls. My parents lived in Camden early during WW2. There were very large military camps nearby and Camden aerodrome was an air force base. He trained thousands of troops there mainly based in the big white building in the golf course at Studley Park. As you approach Camden bridge from Narellan you can see remnants of a low embankment the line ran along, in the fields to your right, much of it now dominated by a line of trees. It crossed the river parallel to, and just to the north of, the current road bridge. It then ran alongside the road through what is now Enzo's Restaurant and ended just short of the first round-about in Camden. The building there to your right has remnants of the loading platform. Apart from passengers, the line carried goods, notably milk, back when Camden was an important part of the the (highly over-regulated) Sydney Milk Zone. As a kid, my parents sometimes drove out to Camden to visit friends who still lived there, and to buy fresh orchard produce (especially peaches when in season). He would time the journey back through to Campbelltown to keep pace with the train. One of the stations on the line was at Maryfields, a Franciscan Friary where thousands would travel to do the 'stations of the cross' around Easter, spread out over a large area of rural countryside. I think some of that property is now where the motorway cuts through.

Thanks for the pick up. yes unless they had a time-machine back then its wrong. Sorry I misspoke in the voice over.. the first electric tram opened in 1889 and closed in 1896... so many 8s and 9s in that era.

I have never seen double trams?

Double decker trams are a Hong Kong thing

And were an Edinburgh and Glasgow thing too

Thanks for the good questions. I have not done a lot of research into Trolley Buses, but I know from pictures that many of the Sydney Trolley Buses - ie the ones in King's Cross, and Kogarah were double deckers. And some early Sydney Steam Trams Trailers and 40 of the first electric trams in Hobart were also double deck. But interestingly after a few accidents the Hobart ones were later converted to single deck trams. If I see any more examples in future I will post back here.

@@mick00000000002 As double decker trams were a Hobart Tasmania’n thing en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Hobart

Thanks. Appreciate it.. Will have a check if I can improve it.. (I may not have been wearing my glasses at the time.. so everything may have been looking a bit blurry when I put it up) :)

Sydney's trains are much better than Melbourne. I've lived in both and in Sydney I could catch a train from 7-9 stations from 3 different lines under 10 mins drive from my house. Where I live now in Melbourne the closest station is 10 minutes away and all the stations and lines are too spaced out.

When has PPBay ever shone blue? (Just playing devils advocado!). Agree 100% about horrid advertising - especially when it obscures the view from within.

Trams mean less traffic congestion due to better public transport, and cost of living alleviation due to less petrol usage. Car dependency is a disease and trams are the cure.

@@dawgtheundying5303 I live in the rural areas and avoid the city like the plague… So I see these things as my tax dollars wasted… Just my opinion… We have absolutely no public transportation and never will… Even electric vehicles are not practical

@@batmanlives6456 Though you live in the rural area you also have to consider tax dollars spent on rural roads, electricity lines, and other government services extended to your town.

@@vinnieriley7227 we paid for our own electricity supply back when it was put on And our rural roads are fully maintained by the local councils… paid for by our rates … We get absolutely nothing from the state and federal government… It’s all soaked up by the city’s We have our own water supply system We have our own sewer system And we take care of our own garbage disposal…

That's not true, car lobbyists were paying mayors and higher government figures big money to rip up public transport.

Least stupid RAM driver

Why are they ineffective? Per person moved, they are quite inexpensive. Heavy rail will always move far more people but light rail can run through the streets, be more accessible and happily go up and down hills. Heavy rail cannot do that. There is a video on how to use a tram network to full effect. It shows 400 of Sydney's trams being stabled near Royal Randwick Racecourse to take punters home after the 1930 Sydney Cup. The trams did not stop at the six platforms and no-one was allowed to cross the tracks as there were pedestrian bridges and stairs at the facility. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8ZjsSQSAsjY.html - Fast forward to 06:50 in that video. It was very efficient and would have moved more than 40,000 people with the greatest of ease.

@3”hippo So incorrect at so many levels - viva la interweb !!

if it's a failed technology, then why are they so popular in cities that have them?