This is the kind of woman I want to see being called a “woman of the year.” Damn. What an incredible mind she has, and what a privilege it is for us to bear witness to it.
I don't usually announce my diagnosis but it feels appropriate here - I'm a 23 year old autistic male and these two speakers are in no exaggerated terms both of my dearest heroes. I've read Dr Peterson's 'Maps of Meaning' and 'Beyond Order' and I am currently reading Dr. Grandin's 'the Autistic Brain' and I am absolutely astounded that I am about to have the pleasure to listen to both authors have a 2 hour long discussion. To anyone reading this I highly recommend Peterson's 'Beyond Order' currently out as well as Grandin's 'the Autistic Brain'. Both works have been crucial for me in my development as both a critical thinker and a functional adult. If by any small slimmer of a chance either author gets a chance to read this comment - thank you dearly for your dedication to your respective fields and for continuing your research. You've both undoubtedly made the world a better place with each of your insight.
As a 24 year old autistic female, diagnosed in early puberty, I felt lost for a terribly long time and constantly lonely as a girl. I've learned of Peterson during 2021 and Grandin in the last few months. It has been a truly lovely experience to get to see them both talk out some of these ideas. It's also heartening to hear someone else around my age with similar issues getting to enjoy this too. I do wish I had experienced them when I was younger but I concur with your comment. The world is a better place with their insights.
My ex-husband was only able to graduate high school because his parents transferred him to a Vo-Tech school. He can barely read and his spelling is atrocious, but he is hands down a mechanical genius if there ever was one. He could listen to an HVAC unit and tell you what's wrong with it just from the sound, and that was simply after some on-the-job training. Watching him diagnose and work on ANY kind of machinery was like watching a maestro - intuitive and efficient. I am glad for this interview and will definitely be picking up Dr. Grandin's books to help me design lesson plans for my homeschooled grandchildren.
As an person with autism I loathed going to school, but I realized later in my life that it was extremely beneficial for my social development. I can only imagine how worse I would be without going to school.
Meeting people like your husband, I always think that there are definitely several kinds of intelligence. I mean lots of theoretical people can barely change a light bulb. And other people excel in mechanical and practical thinking and doing.
My husband was on the spectrum. He could "see" computers and electronics, and how they worked, etc. He would tell me they all work the same. When young people would tell him that computer programs and the actual mechanical/technical parts of the computers themselves would not work a specific function, he would sit there and visualize it in his mind and then make the impossible work. He would build computers with canabolized parts, wrote one of the most famous computer games (for which he sold) and loved reading computer code. He was a "bottom-up" thinker. He worked with Gateway, Dell, Apple, IBM, and Microsoft. He had all the characteristics of a high-functioning autistic and tested 147 on the typical IQ test at 72 years old. But, he had no motivation to become financially advanced. It did not interest him. He was really amazing.
I am autistic and according to the Mensa home test, i am in the 96th percentile for IQ. I can do nothing like what you have described and am actually quite stupid. 😂
It was fun to see the battle of interrumptions lol. Seriously though, it was a great interview, my hats off to both. Love Temple's insight on education. Truly a podcast to remember.
I am not quite half way through - and I am so frustrated with Jordan - it's like he is trying to hear what she is saying by seeing textbooks on diagnosis and can't realate to her at all. As the interviewer, he needs to stop and just listen to her. She has repeatedly brought up things important for her to convey (give me a key point etc) and he isn't really listeing - too quick trying to analyze. Please someone that this gets better for 2nd half - very frustrating for me.
@@JM-ig4ed you've clearly never discussed complex topics with academics before. This always happens because they're fast thinkers and they're used to predicting what the end of the sentence is gonna be. It's not personal it's a different conversation style, if you can keep up you get used to it
A quirky visual genius & a quirky verbal genius have a conversation & it’s the best thing ever! They each have such a unique & individual way of communicating. I really enjoyed watching them find their way to understanding each other. I am much smarter after watching this. I LOL’d a few times too. “I’m not talking potato chips. I'm talking electronic chips." I heart Temple.
My husband is dyslexic, he still struggles to read at age 40; he could fix anything mechanical if you give him time. He works as a Lineman maintaining power lines and then does machining as a hobby.
@@Islam.international I saw a beautiful pair of volumes in the 1980's titled "How Things Work volumes 1&2". Very inclusive with illustrations that you could actually understand. I haven't tried to find any copies, but now I will look. Probably the best books for a dyslexic mechanic.
@@katarinas6012 Not a lot, especially if you consider how often she repeated herself and wandered of in some different direction. Don`t get me wrong I don`t criticise her and found very interesting what she said, but he was really patient and you could sense his respect and how he held back and let her talk, hardly interrupting her.
I'm a woman with Aspergers, almost 60 yrs old. I immediately recognized autism in Dr Grandin, before it was mentioned. When I was young, I tended toward immediate reactionary emotionalism. But that has changed over the years, as I learned how to self-regulate. I really think emotional reaction of the autistic person depends a lot on the person's ability to step back and analyze a situation and also his own response to it. I tend to think in words and ideas... which helps me to theorize, philosophize and process ideas. But I remember in pictures... which helps me to quickly skim through books, remembering the words on the pages. I tend to process the words later, after reading them and remembering them on the page. As for other sensory stimuli, yes, I'm extremely sensitive. I remember the first time I walked into a Radio Shack, and the high-pitched "screeeeeeee" from all those electronics just destroyed my nerves. I hear, smell, taste, feel, and see things others just don't realize are there. It can be overwhelming. The stress level from the constant overloading of my nerves is nearly debilitating at times. But I have to perform, to be able to keep a job, so I can keep a roof over my head. I'm an executive assistant, and I dare say I'm decently good at my job. But I feel completely overwhelmed by the social requirements of the position. I knew all my life that I was very different from others. And 2 years ago, after my son was diagnosed with high-functioning autism, I came across a video describing how autism manifests in women. And suddenly, I had a frame that fit my picture.
Same here at the age of 42, we share the exact same manifestations. Dr Grandin is not high functioning, she is the “rain man” level. (Rain man analogy merely refers to diagnostic level, not meant to compare them in any way)
@@elainelee4828 Temple single-mindedly revolutionized a global industry by verbally translating her highly personal empathy with animals' experience of their world; persuaded powerful industry heads to adopt her model and spend lavishly in the process; earned mad levels of respect and love for her courage; and is probably the top public rock star of the movement to honor and accommodate all children's native talents. She protected her interests while on this glorious mission and is financially successful. She's also a professor, after navigating the vicious and blind egos of academia's snake pits. (In academia, you get the literal satisfaction of naming names!) I feel sorry for those who try to undermine her after she locks on a target They may not get a word in unless she pities the fool! Temple has a mind like a steel trap, and she relentlessly focuses on the issue at hand. I Love how she had a lap full of fresh references to share with her interviewer, who had the long-awaited honor of being overwhelmed by Temple's sheer innocence. Fantastic time spent! Raymond lived in his own tiny world. He couldn't formulate then undertake a life mission except to slavishly watch his favorite TV shows and melt down when he couldn't.
@@helenlouie9432 my point is she was diagnosed not high functioning, not Asperger (the previous term for high functioning). I don’t know the terminology for the rest of the levels of ASD diagnosis, I am aware there are 1-2 levels beyond Aspergers. She is the classical kind. I refer to “rain man” as the non Asperger level of ASD diagnosis, which is a common but LOOSE term folks often use, merely mean classical manifestation of ASD. I watched the movie of her biography. She was definitely not high functioning. She stated this fact herself either in her books or movies.
C. S. Lewis described himself as an "extreme visualist" and complained that it gave him trouble in conceptualizing. He did groundbreaking work on the nature of imagination in his work, "Image and Imagination."
There was an interview recently with one of Prince's band members, I can't remember who it was. They shared that Prince saw the finished song in his head and then just brought it into being via the studio. Prince would go into the studio with just an engineer and play all the instruments & add vocals all by himself and didn't even use a click track for timing. All the separate elements when put together were in perfect time. Artists are so interesting to me, there is clearly a different kind of intelligence at work.
One of the things that drew me to Doctor Peterson in the first place was his ability to unite the abstract with the practical. I feel like many of his guests are well educated people who live in the realm of the abstract. This was the first interview I've seen where the guest wouldn't even let Peterson venture into the abstract. She's such a good grounding force!
I am a female with Asperger’s and aphantasia so this conversation at times felt so foreign to me. Almost like she was speaking another language. Aphantasia means I lack the ability to visualize. Completely, totally, 100% no visualization. What I find really interesting is her explanation of the research she has found about people who are naturally good at math being more visual. It is completely opposite from what I have experienced in my life. After 8th grade, I tested into Calculus despite the fact I had never stepped foot in a math class higher than basic math. No trig, no algebra, not even pre algebra. They asked me how I knew the information or how I solved the equations or problems they gave me and all I could tell them was it just made sense. It sounded to me like she said people who are mathematically inclined are visual thinkers and yet I can’t visualize anything. If I do try to visualize the best way I can describe it is that I scaffold words I understand contextually into where they would be in a picture, but as far as images or seeing the words or seeing numbers or anything like that it’s just blank. Btw… I loved how dr Peterson said he has been arguing with himself since he was two. I tell my spouse we have a whole relationship including hours of discussions and arguments that he has never experienced because they are in my head 😂
I always had conversations in my head with my husband too. It is something I'm glad I had a habit of doing. My husband died a couple years ago but I can still talk to him.
You know it could be that for math you actually need abstract/symbolic thinking. Which doesn't necessarily involve any sort of thinking relational to sences (visual, auditory, tactile and so on). Maybe not even verbal is needed... Maybe they use this thinking in conjunction with visual, and you with verbal. However it is possible to have completely abstract thinking, in your reason, without thinking reational to senses and without verbalization.
❤❤ I love to hear neurodiverse people share their experience. Everyone has a unique array of gifts and limitations. Each individual can only speak for themself (a wonderful and powerful thing!), not for "autistic people".
Wait, no algebra by 8th grade? Not doubting but that is really unheard of. Incredible how you were able to figure things out with just basic elementary level 3rd grade math. I think autism is a gift to some people. Incredible super human powers.
I love, in the middle of this interview, when Jordan verbally described something and Dr Temple immediately says: “Yeah well that’s still a lot of gobbledygook” 😂 This is like watching a masterclass on effective communication!
Isn't wonderful watching someone incapable of being politically correct and completely artificial? I also love how she sees a problem and needs to find a real 'practical' solution instead of all the gobbledygook WE are forced to listen to everyday. 😉
I absolutely adore Temple and I love listening to Jordan. What a fabulous conversation to watch. You did a great job talking to Temple. This is such a gem of a video. The US is lucky to have her. ❤️❤️❤️ She is a gift.
My son was like that. Much to the chagrin of his teachers, he could “look” at Math problems for example, figure the answer out in his head, and write it down. A few times he received zero for these answers, despite them being right, because he wasn’t “showing his work”. When I heard that, I drove to the school and gave them all a piece of my mind. I said “do you think as an adult, he’s going to go through all these steps, to get his answer?” I said unless you think he is cheating, I will not have you giving him ZERO if the answer is right. Congratulate him on getting the RIGHT answer EVEN if he can’t explain how he got it. He did the same things with say building a wagon. He’d visualize it, and then work backwards in his mind to start at the beginning.
After retiring from the school system, I will tell you with all seriousness that school is not there to educate but to indoctrinate. When was this? Many districts nowadays would label you a problem parent.
That was me. Sadly i became uninterested, labeled a.d.d and was told i would amount to nothing and dropped out of school. Now im disabled and dont work at all. No one ever looked at the trauma i survived that caused these manifestations......
Aye, 'showing my work' was the bane of my maths. I wouldn't show the steps after 3+3=6 as it is implicit in our knowing. I had the same attitude a few steps before that.. ...the answer is obvious.
@@Michael-fn2fu trauma. Your teacher being mean to you was traumatic? Ur not that weak bro. Ur accepting your weak and becoming weaker. Look at your a.d.d. Example. BE A MAN. Don’t slow don’t. Don’t ever stop!!
She helped me so much in 2009’when my son was diagnosed at 3. Her books and videos gave me so much and helped my son. By learning all about deep pressure and to this day I roll him up in a blanket to calm him. He is nonverbal and much lower function. I appreciate him for him.
She's amazing. Her comments on workers vs. management vs owner/investors is spot on. Workers know the solutions, managers either want to take the credit or save money, so they ignore what must be done for effective production. Owners are so out of the loop, the managers can easily manipulate them and don't understand why workers are scared of being fired for speaking up. This has been my experience in almost every job I've held.
Yes yes and YES, particularly in the last 13yrs, heavily seeing this in the previous 3-5 across all industries, both public and private. Spot on and well said! 👏
I have seen this in the workplace. It is ironic that those who occupy the corner office are often playing video games on their computers while their staff is busy with getting the job done. Sadly, the corner office occupiers often end up in the C Suite with stock options. This leads to complete corporate disfunction. When the company’s stock is in the tank, they fire the workers, while protecting their Ivy League leaders. There is so much wrong with this picture.
As an employee of many types of businesses sole proprietor, big corporations, co-operitives I worked hard to build relationships within our organization and to ask questions listen and implement the best solutions and ideas. No one was ever disciplined for challenging me or our processes. Bonuses were routinely given for idea's that were implemented.
I met a friend who hadn't went to college like my other friends, wasn't sure how smart he was. I worked with him one day when he asked me to build a chicken coop with him, he blew my mind. He did the whole thing with no plans, was eyeballing perfect cuts beyond the 1/8 inch tolerance, and was from eye telling me the cuts to make that I myself had to measure. It changed how I saw other people's minds and skills, and think of it often to this day
Oh yeah. My old man wasn't educated beyond 12 years old. He became a mechanic and then a fitter. A genius with his hands. Built several buildings on the property himself. He hadn't a clue about any theory, it was all instinct and trial and error over a lifetime. I, on the other hand got a degree and I would struggle to build a birdbox!
Thinking in pictures has created a lot of difficulties for me, it throws off the timing when I'm trying to speak. It's like trying to explain a action movie sequence with fast cuts to a blind person in real time. You fall behind or miss a detail and suddenly nothing you're saying makes sense anymore. I have to stop and think or "translate" into words before I talk so to other people I can seem slow or confused while in my mind it's perfectly clear and logical.
I'm the same way, I find that putting a thoughtful look on my face and looking away, helps people to be more or less, comfortable feeling with my sometimes slow thinking process. Not that my mind is slow, they only get about 20 percent of my thoughts.
I have the same problem, I never though this was a thing visual thinkers. I been trying to slow down my speaking in effort to slow down my visual thinking. It's a double edge sword because most of my clients are engineers that think in patterns. Eventually my ideas win out but it's always a struggle, however I see the holes before the others do.
I know where you're coming from. I've had this conversation with friends in the past. Thinking (and conversing) in pictures is incredibly inefficient and can be frustrating if my focus becomes disjointed. There's nothing "cool" or exotic about thinking in pictures. The only advantage I see is perhaps an occupation that involves design or engineering.
Thinking in pictures and having a visual memory, can be really frustrating, having hundreds of images flashing like a strobe light while you're trying to speak 🤤
Oh man.. this is a gem. I’m just like her, and I’ve struggled my whole life. I love to work on cars, I love photography, I have a dozen hobbies, I’m a contractor for a living and can build anything. I’m just like her, and I’m so confused as to why she’s the anomaly here. Almost makes me emotional.
Ok so let me tell you from the other side of the spectrum. I can make music,enjoy and create art,love the look of things but do not visualize how they work.I can replicate but not create machines. Only the outsides. If you are gifted in this manner. Use it all you can for good. People like me love and depend on you. ❤ I know I do.
I’m also like this, and I work in high tech manufacturing. I’m pretty successful and lead a team in addition to working with every other department in our company from accounting to shipping. I can predict problems years and months in advance of my colleagues because I see the patterns way ahead of them. I do really well but I need some things other people do not: - more down time (it takes me longer to decompress after I’ve been tightly focused on one thing, but I also can better write up the problems I can see coming when I have more time to think through how different types of brains will understand it.) - an environment I can somewhat control (certain smells, pitches, and lighting really bother me, so it’s easiest to just remove these things so I can focus better.) - detailed, specific instructions (just saying “Do it whenever you feel like it” does not help me at all. I like things broken into extremely basic steps at first or I will ask for constant clarification) - encouragement and mentoring (if I get constant criticism I seem to be a little more sensitive and easily discouraged than other people. It also helps when I can explain how my mind works to other people on my team so that I can hear how their brains work. This allows me to sort of categorize their brain’s communication style (I use animal models for this in my head,) and then I can adjust how I communicate to fit this better.)
Same here literally identical explanation im a contractor by trade I know how to do about 13 different trades and hyper industrious I always have to be doing something but I never graduated highschool
Totally get it and am super opposed to the phrase Jack of all trades- master of none- because very little across many things, even slows me down. I see completely disassembled and reassembled items at once.
Psilocybin co-joined with non-invasive modification techniques blended with ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) will allow Autistic Children to fully recover their skills.
What I loved most about this episode is that Temple at 75 has a strong purpose. She is helping those children that have such great capabilities find their place (their very important place) in a world that badly needs them now.
Interesting that you brought up pragmatism (only concretes?); nevertheless, she does generalize by visiting various instances to create a single unity from complexity…so basic generalization =man’s major form of using concepts??inductive reasoning
Reading her book, Thinking in Pictures was such a revelation for me. I think in "Streams of Conscience" and I choose the best path walking through the Best Path. I suppose one of the best movies which illustrates this is the one with Nicholas Cage and Jessica Biel - Next (2007 film) I went nearly 20 years with no large dreams. But around February 2020 I received this massive urge to start praying for the world. About a month later the Covid-19 Started.
Einstein noted that the direction of light propagation should be changed in a gravitational field, contrary to the Newtonian predictions. And the energy they refuse to reciprocate by law eventually manifests as darkness on them. But we all need to agree on some essentials. I have found aspects of Spinoza and Einstein to be very helpful. All things are aspects of God, the one substance of reality. To love God and to love one's neighbor is the core of what we all strive for -- all things are a metaphor for God. I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them. -Spinoza In Summa Theologica II.II, Thomas Aquinas asserts the following correspondences between the seven Capital Virtues and the seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit: The gift of wisdom corresponds to the virtue of charity. The gift of understanding corresponds to the virtue of faith. The gift of counsel (right judgement) corresponds to the virtue of prudence. The gift of courage corresponds to the virtue of fortitude. The gift of knowledge corresponds to the virtue of hope. The gift of reverence corresponds to the virtue of justice. The gift of wonder and awe corresponds to the virtue of temperance.
This lady is amazing. I have bachelor’s degrees in computer science and mathematics but over the past year I’ve taken up woodworking as a hobby (and I’m pretty bad at it but I still love it). I never could’ve imagined how much skill is involved in making a fine piece of furniture or even a picture frame for that matter. It has really given me a new respect for the trades. There is no substitute for hands-on, practical skills. Period.
I am a architectural technologist, with 99% of my work being sitting at a computer doing drafting/design work, and also recently took up Woodworking as practical outlet to get me out of the house and off the computer. Very different and interesting set of skills one has to learn, with the patience and accuracy to make happen. Nothing is a better trainer then actually doing the activity, no matter how many books or videos one watches.
As fired up as Temple is about the trades, and getting the right kids into the right paths of trades, it would be SO cool to get her in a long talk with Mike Rowe.
My brother barely reads at a 5th grade level. But he got two degrees in business and computers, with my help, bc he can see how things fit. He can take anything apart and put it back together. He's now almost completely blind and he can still take apart things a d fix them bc he "sees" them. Where I see in pictures and words.
I'm glad that he got proper steering toward a career that focused on his strengths. I started life gifted in some ways. Public schools beat me down verbally, physically and mentally. I was told I was stupid and worthless daily for "not putting forth an effort". For Heaven's sake, I certainly wanted to perform in math,- it would have saved me alot of misery !. My schools (plural, because there were old buildings, big classes etc. They were far more concerned with our color than they were how hard it was to ride the bus for hours so we would be schooled in areas we did not live in. But I digress...They did nothing to channel my strengths. I started K school using a 3rd gr. reader and was treated like a freak. Artistic skills were flatly ignored. If you were good at math, great. Otherwise, you were worthless and they took away all my recess, all rainy day indoor games, no outdoor play. Math only, morning and night. No music,no art, nothing. My spirit nearly died and I became very ill. It seems they want Americans all to do math and computer jobs. Our factories are all but gone. GOOD INFO. THANKS !.
@@donnajohnson3334 I'm truly sorry for your experience. My daughter is gifted and an artist. She wasn't doing well in middle/high school bc she was different. Great at everything but Math. Took me years to get her back on track. So I understand. But now she's the head artist of an online game.
@@donnajohnson3334 Thank you for sharing your story; it feels very familiar. I did well in school, excelled in reading, writing, and art and did reasonably well in math, even though I didn't like it much, until about the fourth grade, then it was like math and I became mortal enemies. I think it was a combination of factors. I was at least a year younger than everyone in my grade, because I had started school in England (where kids start full-time school at 5, not 6) and when we emigrated to Canada the principal of our new school decided I was academically advanced enough to go into Grade 2, at only six and a half. Socially that was a disaster for me that followed me through my entire schooling. But I wonder now if it wasn't a major cause of the academic difficulties, I started to experience in grade 4, as well. Math at that level starts to become much more abstract, with more of an emphasis on speed as well as accuracy, and at only 8 I may just not have been developmentally ready for it. I also had a bad teacher in that grade for the first time, a foul-tempered older nun who had no patience and regularly berated kids to the point of tears when they answered incorrectly. She even hit me on the arm once when I couldn't figure out a math problem, the only time a teacher ever hit me. It didn't really hurt but it was so humiliating that I cried, which of course made it even worse because my classmates teased me about that afterward. By the end of that year I had a reputation as a "dummy", It didn't matter that math was still the only subject I was really bad at; it was so over-emphasized, and continued to be more and more so with each passing grade. By high school I was so put off school I basically stopped trying altogether, and started failing almost every subject. Math is just not a subject all children can excel in; we know that, so why do we continue too push these unrealistic expectations on all kids regardless of their innate abilities and limitations, and make them feel like stupid and hopeless failures when they can't meet those expectations? Why not allow them opportunities, as you said, to develop their real talents?
I’m 24 and work in the trades. When I was around 6 I had a head injury the wiped some of my memories, my short term memory is not too good and I was put into IEP program that went from middle school through high school. By my senior year I was places in AP Calculus without choice because I did all other courses including on year of 2 math classes. I’m understanding now my process in thinking is stronger in picture and average in words. I would visualize mathematical equations and charts. Mechanically I excelled due to picturing how things are taken apart, put together and how they operate. This has greatly helped in the trades and multiple times I’m handed new projects and it’s extremely fun figuring out how new things tick. It’s unfortunate that trades are lacking, my sister paid 200k for a master’s degree that has gotten her up to around 37/hr and I’m without a degree making double that 🫤 a lot of people need to understand that 5 years in a trade without college (different than trades school) can outperform some of the masters degrees that are 200k
Very apt, I have a masters degree and make the same as most tradesmen. So basically I paid 145k so I can work in an air-conditioned space using my hands instead of outside using my hands. Kinda regret the money I'm still paying back. I think I would have more money if I had done a trade instead, but lots of trades wear out the body by age 45 so then your forced into early retirement or working a low paying job that's less stressful on the body. So maybe it will workout in the end.
@@lexpox329 Yes your choice will continue to provide You have provided value to the world with education you paid for and earned. Hope you are in USA. USA needs citizens as yourself. Good Day. 🌿
The reason people make little money from their academic certificates is because they do not know how to package it for consumption. I don't know what your sister studied but chances are With a little entrepreneurship she can earn quite a bit. She may need to build some extra skills but there are plenty of online courses for that. Jordan Peterson is an example (albeit extreme) of how one can make good money from their expertise. There are others such as Andrew Huberman and some of the guests Peterson invites. I enjoy doing woodwork myself but only do it as a hobby and learnt it from my dad.
@@lexpox329 this isnt true, your excluding the excessive physical cost that working outdoors takes, most workers in constructiion are forced to hire apprentices because they cannot do that work themselves anymore, many construction workers like myself will not even reach the end of their career and will have to retire early with no other skills- the grass usually appears greener, id definitely rather the security & longevity that you have. (=
Watching this is so fascinating. Watching how differently their brains work is just fantastic. I got to see Dr Peterson talk live and you could watch create as he spoke it was amazing. I think more like temple. She can't turn on a dime like can but she takes in tons of information and visualizes before forming an opinion. That is why when Dr Peterson thinks a new thought she goes back to what she was talking about. This great. Two of the brightest minds of our generation showing how different intelligence can be. Please meet again. ❤️
I appreciate your comment. I'm sure I would agree with it. I skipped through to the summary by Dr Peterson. I enjoyed it very much. I look forward to watching the whole interview eventually. I don't know if it's relevant but it would be interesting to see him interview Cesar Millan or Augusto aka Dog Daddy. I was referred to this video because I am a fan of Dr. Grandin.
I watched the movie ''Temple Grandin'' about Temple's early life and struggles, which was a great watch. Her mother was advised to institutionalise her, but she thankfully did not. After listening to this discussion between two brilliant minds, it makes me think of all the other brilliant minds past and present who have/are being disregarded through ignorance. Peoples brains work in different ways and so should the direction and methods of teaching. If not, their learning capacity is seriously affected. To think that people such as Temple and her amazing brain have not had the opportunity to flourish as they should is truly heart breaking.
It is sad to label her as Autistic. I think more ADHD, thier minds go a mile a minute and the average person can't keep up. When my kids were litte , i read a book about the farmer and the hunter. I associate with it always! The hunter is aware of everything around him so he could hunt and be aware of prey and makes snap decisions. The hunter was the hunter gatherer ancient society. The farmer is the one who enjoys staying at home, planning everything before a decision- he is the corporate executive who controls things. . I'm mildly like that ADHD and try so hard not to be compulsive, age mellows you, but my daughter is definitely like her. I can understand her talking and changing topics continuously, because I experienced her life, her friends probably think my daughter is crazy. She WAS a very gifted artist, trained to work quickly like a commercial artist. But sadly, like many ADHD people, she could not cope and became an addict. At 30 years old her mind is a burned out shell of her original self. She says she takes drugs because she is scared of her visions. Another gift that is frowned upon. 😢 Dr. Gandin's people are the people on the streets who can't cope with the corporate , computer society and are strung out in drugs. Their minds can't cope with today's society. 😢
That is precisely the greatest flaw of public education. It is designed for non-existent cookie-cutter humanoids, rather that for unique individuals. The implications of this fundamental fatal flaw are exponential in magnitude.
I am a mechanical engineer. My father was a patent attorney. He often said that very few ideas came from engineers (although I have several patents). It was usually the draftsmen or shop machinists who came up with new ideas. Before I started a design, I would always talk it over with the guys on the shop floor. I got most of my best ideas from those guys. Engineers are generally not very creative but are very good at improving things and making them reliable, safe, and efficient. Most ideas are not practical, and a good engineer will be able to tell you that up front. Good engineers are skeptical and disagreeable, but open-minded enough to admit being wrong at some point. A large part of an engineer's job is convincing management that those expensive redundant backup safety features are necessary. Murphy's Law always applies. Murphy was an optimist. The electric company in Texas hired an environmental activist woman who decided to shut down the coal plants and replace them with windmills. In Michigan, the windmills have deicing sprayers built into them, because ice builds up in the blades just like on an airplane wing. The Texas utility decided to save money, because who ever heard of an ice storm in Texas? Anyone who has actually lived in Texas knows that they have bad ice storms every 10 years or so. They did not install the deicing systems. Then Texas had the once every 10 years ice storm, the windmills froze, and the power system collapsed. I was without power for a week.
This is an excellent description of the difference between the abstract pattern-oriented engineer brain and the pragmatic mechanical one. My father was the former (an industrial engineer) and he COULD do detailed woodwork and car maintenance, but his best friend, also an engineer, was a genius at inventing new equipment and fixing things creatively (among other things, he maintained for free a planetarium star projector on which the $40,000 tiny motors were always burning out, and he repaired the original Daguerre photographic machine for the Eastman House). BOTH could think abstractly, but the friend's brain worked much more concretely, and it was fascinating to hear them discuss together how to fix systems and things.
lol this is not just excessively abstract thinking--it is Southern Thinking (an oxymoron). I lived in Maryland and people around D.C. NEVER had a learning curve about functioning and driving in snow, although almost every year they had some serious storms. Denial is the mode there. Remember the plane crash into the frozen Potomac in 1983? Pilot on a southern airline failed to get a second deicing in a storm before takeoff. Rinse and repeat.
Exactly, In Academia, this analysis is similar to the differences between BS in Engineering (More abstract) and BS in Engineering Technology (More practical). I studied Abet Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering Technology, and I have several utility and design patents myself, I make inventions based mainly on my creative visual-spatial/mechanical design skills. In my final degree project for example, many theoretical engineering students had trouble designing functional parts and devices while it was easy for me to do because I could visualize the final design/components needed and how they fit and move together once assembled. You are right, many engineers are not that creative, intuitive or practical in how they design and develop systems. From what I have seen most engineers are Verbal and Mathematical Pattern thinkers; they know the why and how to use equations to solve engineering problems but have issues visualizing and applying it to the real world. They optimize existing designs but have issues creating new ones. They teach mostly advanced calculus but not enough practical shop classes. I would say I am more of a visual-spatial mechanical pattern thinker; I can partially visualize 3D mechanisms or do creative mechanical designs in my mind like when I use SolidWorks but not extremely detailed like the way Dr. Temple or Nikola Tesla does it. I believe in order to be a physical inventor; you need to have at least either Visual-object thinker or visual-spatial pattern thinker.
My father is a tool and die maker. He is the one catching the engineers mistakes and fixing them. He'll redraw blue prints and use the same software as engineers, but he is seen as less than due to not having a college degree. It kind of breaks my heart that people can't be appreciated for the different talents and abilities they bring to the table.
I like how passionate she is about helping kids that think differently. She has worked hard and has had a very successful career. More importantly, she has never stopped advocating for kids with autism. Her books and lectures have impacted so many people.
I was a specialist teacher helping non verbal students living with autism...her incites were absolutely invaluable...for my student and mainstream students who fell through the gaps.
Beautiful how Jordan is trying his very best to find a fitting interview style and how Temple is trying her hardest to answer precisely. Where there is a will there is a way. Very interesting insights from both sides in that the lack of practical aspects in education not only disenfranchises kids that would thrive in those subjects. It also delays them in finding their passion unless their parens fill in the void. I hope parents will see this and take that into account❤❤❤
There were parts of the interview when Jordan seemed more thoughtful, and others when he seemed more aware of the time and grew impatient. It's a struggle to let someone go on and on when the trajectory of their conversation seems to be going off into space. The "rose" and the "cows" segment seemed like that. But Temple has accomplished a lot, and I wished that Jordan had allowed her to go off on her tangents to the point where she could have turned it into a more coherent point. I wish he had asked her how she would gain insight into designing things for cows when her associations with the word "cows" led her to an Angus bull turning his nose up at a soy protein bar, and let her explain that process.
True but Temple gets lots of opportunity for that elsewhere. It is ground breaking for her that she CAN indeed manage a different type conversation with an established theoretical mind. And Jordan had to adapt by formulating more direct and less facetted questions an move away from setting them up in a boring way. Both have to collaborate. I think Temple got to explain her point of the three indispensable minds to a person who can actually introduce that principal globally. AND Jordan could test this principal on Temple versus his own mind versus Tempels examples of the math based engineer mind. THAT is ground breaking!!
A lot of educated people on the same page, tend to have trouble then agreeing with their male or female counter part. Then by design woman are more emotionally driven and nurturing in their thinking and ways, men are more fact driven by logic and proven results. Where they clash is the right way may hurt someone’s feelings l, a man that wants the job done and done correctly puts aside those feelings and complete the task. The woman would pause work to attend to someone’s hurt feelings or something of that faction. They may look at one another like “ how could you say that, do they, blah bla bla” and on the opposite, we have a job to do and where gunna finish it no matter what, how could you let feelings get in the way” so they may never agree to accept they are wrong or adopt the others solutional mindset as naturally men and woman are different by design and it’s just gunna be that way, with respect men and woman need each other for a full understanding in anything
@@broeklien3817 I agree. The tempo of the conversation especially with her strengths but also challenges I found very impressive. Thankful this conversation happened and that I was able to watch it.
“When I was 20 I thought everyone thinks in pictures just like me”. Such a powerful opening. I’m now 30 and only started to realize how much this nonlinear, visual thinking is in fact a gift I came to possess. It is never easy to communicate to folks how a design solution you have magically fits a certain scenario. It’s never truly magical but rather a cultured form of thinking, which in my upbringing experience never was encouraged by the environment around me. I am glad to see that more people are seeing our need of this talent today
@@lisam4503 That's really amusing. You know JBP started out helping the NDP in Canada, and also is very clear about needing both sides of the spectrum (Liberal/Conservative) for a balanced society? The issue most moderates are dealing with in current times, in that the Lib/Dems have gone sooooo far Left, if you are in the (former) middle, you are being branded as Far Right. Listen to more Jordan Peterson, and you will understand.
1 hour 53 minutes and 53 seconds of my life that I can never get back and I am so glad that I spent it watching this video. Fantastic interview. So much knowledge in one place between the two persons....
I live in Holland (The Netherlands), and can report that we currently also have problems educating mechanics so that it is hard to e.g. find plumbers, welders, plasterers, carpenters, and house painters. The ones there are can earn a lot of money.
Skipping classes, which has always been tolerated in University is poor preparation for actual work like the trades. Dumb and lazy electricians, plumbers, welders, masons and the like never advance beyond the "helper" stage and leave before they learn even if they care to do so.
I can confirm this. As a highscool teacher in the Netherlands I see a lot of kids at 14 years old that can't cut a straight line with scissors of don't know the different between a centimeter and a millimeter. That's is in the bigger cities like Utrecht and Amsterdam. It seems to me that the focus on many schools is more toward technology than 'classic' mechanics. The governement has granded 400 milion (2019-2023) to schools in the Netherlands to revive technical education. Lot of this money is spended on 3D drawing and printing, robotics, laser cutting, VR, 'clean' labs. There are a lot of discussions here to do something about it. Big problem was the financial crisis (2008) with left many technical workers umemployed. They didn't get paid so well in the past and the schoollevel of 'VMBO' and MBO did often not have a good name. The LTS (Lower Tecnical School) had a better name. Also many schools don't have a technical room anymore. They are more oriented to 'care and wellfare' and 'services' or 'economie and business'. The old sawing room and metal working machines are sitting there with no teachers to teach the subjects. And the schoolboards (who don't understand this different kinds of intelligents Temple Grandin is talking about) are not willing to invest. In Amsterdam all technical schools will unite in one school (VMBO), making it less accesible for students to get in touch with mechanics. But yes, we also have the biggest chipmaker in the world with a revenue of 18,6 billion euros (20 billion usd) in 2021.
@@schmingusss speaking as a woman I can say anyone who has a good work ethic is much more desirable. It does not matter what the job is. It depends on the character of this person. I feel women who choose according to profession are shallow with personality flaws. I like to hope I am more the norm.
@@SoarLong but she is able to realize when she is wrong or when her ideas are not working. So she's not just going on not arguing with her self. She is able to reflect on her actions and figure out what's working and what isn't. More than a lot of people can do.
It’s not confidence, it’s an assumption based on analytical hypothesis. As an autistic person myself, her way of talking is my own. We’re always taking in new information, and reintegrating facts after we observe the confidentiality applied theory of our hypotheses. It’s literal speak, which must change as new information is acquired.
I learned that I think in pictures watching HBO's "Temple Grandin". The scenes where it visualized Dr. Grandin's though processes struck me at my core as I realized it was incredibly similar to my own. It also helped explain why I had felt "apart" from the vast majority of the population even though I had learned to socialize and integrate with others to a high degree, albeit a degree that was both physically and emotionally draining when I was put in situations where I had no choice but to endure it. That HBO special is still one of my favorites to this day and I am happy Dr. Peterson had the opportunity to both meet her and to share the results of that meeting here.
When I first saw that movie, I gasped and cried and watched it over and over. Literally someone like me, who experienced the same and was treated the same. Who thought the same. It was both a joyous and tremendously sad revelation. Feeling the rejection and superiority coming from others. The inability to understand me. And often, me, them. Very lonely and heartbreaking at times.
I am definitely an image thinker and my wife is the exact opposite. I have such difficulty watching shows about mass murders and serial killers because I’m picturing all of the stories in sharp detail . My wife doesn’t have that ability and so she’s less likely to be bothered by any of it. I generate these gruesome scenes in my head and they wind up staying there for days and even weeks.
I remember watching Claire Danes portray Temple in a movie, and I was so moved by Temple’s concern for the animals, and her ability to re-imagine how to do things. She is an amazing woman. For the ways all people differ, God gives us so many gifts to fill up the gaps.
Coming to realization of my own ASD through the realization and diagnosis of my son for ASD which came through diagnosis of my grandson with ASD which came through the fact that his half brother was diagnosed on the more extreme end of ASD has literally had me rethinking my entire life. Watching this has opened me further to accepting the difference in the way I think than that of others. The more I see these types of offerings the more I learn.
As a homeschooling mom I found this incredibly enlightening and helpful in thinking what I can add to our homeschooling experience to expose my children to all those different skills and see what they thrive best in. I have one child who is strong in literacy and art. Another who loves to engineer and build things with Lego. Time to hand over some tools to continue to advance in those areas. 😊
The blessing of homeschooling is the fact that you can begin to provide apprenticeship opportunities. Find a grey-hair with patience and specialized experience to train your children in methodical, proper and safe use of tools and equipment, and tinkering ...
This is fascinating. I actually found Dr. Grandin before I found Dr. Peterson. I am a huge fan of both people. I am so lucky to live in a time where I can hear these two people talk.
I agree on her 100% on how our education system is broken! A lot of children, including myself when I was young...will not complete higher education due to math being the barrier. My life would of been so different if math wasn't a requirement for every damn college program. It demoralized me in to believing I was stupid because I couldn't easily grasp it.
I loved when she spoke about the skill loss of our generation. My dad and his best friend are somewhat of mechanical geniuses, can fix anything, even if they have never seen it before… And it’s very rare that I meet someone in my age group with that amazing skill. Where I live, in Texas, it is more common to have blue-collar workers, but I have noticed the decline in the skilled, specialty blue collar workers.
I SOOOOOO completly agree that no one teaches HOW TO MAKE THINGS. Partly, it's come to be considered so undervalued to work with things - as it has no status as university. Partly, it's because kid's simply don't know reality exists and don't get the opportunity to be interested in it. They've become perfect theoricists of reality, who don't ever get in touch with it in any realms of life, be it professional or personnal.
@@anaklusmosj8432 yeah... and the problem is that these strictly theoretical savants of all aspects of life are in very often in charge telling everyone that things that can only be opperational in their minds are actually feasable, when they simply aren't.
I agree. Trades have been looked down on for far too long. I do concrete work, and I can recall at least a few dates I went on where the night took a nose dive at right about the time I was asked, "So, what did you study in college"? I never knew how to reply to that other than to explain that I just prefer working with my hands instead. College didn't really appeal to me. I have 20 years of concrete experience now and started a small company that's doing well. I listen to college lectures all winter long while I work on creative projects. I couldn't be much happier with my route in life.
We distance ourselves from ambient reality with earbuds. We distance ourselves from each other, by being on our mobile phones, while in actual physical proximity to another person. We distance ourselves from perception of the whole, by becoming specialists, before we are adequate generalists. Thus, in all fields, and in most relationships, we are unwittingly doomed.
My sister has always had the belief that hands on experiential, group learning is essential to a child and adolscent growth. She owns a charter school that includes animal husbandry, weaving, shop, mechanics and business basics along with the general math, science and English, with musuc and Art mixed in. She takes her high school students to Costa Rica to study the rain forest and explore the Coffee plantations. And she can build things without a blue print.
When I was young, I only thought in words. When I was 13 or 14, I started as an apprentice carpenter. The carpenter would explain what we were building, but I could never see it. When I was around 17 and started doing my own builds, and I remember this happening, I began to be able to see in my mind the things I needed to make. I started being able to visualize the specific shapes of each piece of wood and how it would fit in to the project. The longer I was a carpenter the more complicated the pictures became, and it allowed me to be a much better carpenter.
As an autistic person it’s interesting to watch her think because I can tell that while she’s more image-visualizing than I am, we operate under the same associative mechanism. Which again I think is ultimately down to pattern recognition. I’m just better at recognizing and visualizing patterns I don’t necessarily have to see. It’s interesting actually because her way of thinking is much easier to explain. Like…I don’t just talk myself through abstract patterns, I see them. I see the concepts either as representative categories, as the words themselves, or as something indescribable. Then I see the connections between the concepts, either sequential as a chain or a Rolodex or as web. Like…I see it all, geographically.
I remember when I was learning a computer programming tool - I would see the logic structure of the program floating in 3D in my brain. I would have to work fast to set up that structure before it faded.
The thing I struggle with is during a conversation with someone, I need to translate their words into a picture in order to follow what we are talking about. If a friend is talking about a trip they take, it is easier because I know their car, I know their home they are leaving from, and a rough idea of what is going past the car. If someone on RU-vid is talking about going on a trip, I struggle because I don't know the surroundings to put the story into. But back to my original train of thought, I have to take their words, turn it into a picture, picture my response and then translate it into words that cognitively express my thought so they can understand what I am trying to say. I have found my coworkers have become amazing at decoding what I am trying to say as I struggle to get it out.
It's not really a problem that you don't know the exact looks of the surroundings described when someone tells you a story. You can just imagine that in any way you want it and make it as vivid and interesting as you'd like. Similarly to how you read a book. Why would that be a struggle? Also, what thoughts could you have that aren't verbal that you have to decode from image data into words? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Are we talking about emotions, impressions? That still isn't taking the actual images and decoding that into words, that would be generating words to describe how you react to the imagery, right?
I am the same. I actually just discovered this last week after getting her book from the library. It is so crazy to see that my mind is always converting everything visually! When it gets too abstract I lose interest. Now it would be good to understand how to use this in some form of creative work!
@@rolento5480 nope. I’m visual thinker and understood the op. Recognize that you are arguing with an autistic that sees the world obviously different from you. And that’s okay. The seeing the world differently is okay. Not arguing with and gas lighting them.
I remembered I struggled a lot in school because educators didn't know how to teach someone like me. I realized I Inadvertently taught myself through out the years trying different things such as working a job at 14, joining the marching band, taking dance lessons, and the list goes on. I prepared myself by trying different things, and now I'm doing the profession that really defines me as a visual thinker, Artist. It was a long journey, but I'm glad I've gone through the struggle and difficulty of finding that thing that gives me joy. Jordan I feel this is one of your best interviews because it speaks to so many people who were pushed in the back of the classroom, and had something to say.
@p!nned By Jordan B Peterson... Jordan, thank you so much for all your hard work and everything you've contributed in helping us understand a lot of the confusion that's happening today. I've learned so much about myself ever since I began to watch your lectures. Thank you for helping me be a better wife, mother, and daughter.
I have so much respect for Dr. Temple Grandin. Her insight into autism helped me understand my 2 autistic sons. She has helped parents everywhere, not just the farming industry. Amazing person.
The power grid issue is real. Most people don't realize how fragile it is and the serious problem we have in store for us. It was disturbing to hear her comments about it.
Generators can be taken out solar panels can be taken out most any other back up system can be taken out. It seems it would be better to move in a proactive way to protect the power grid.
@Pam Baker Sometimes I will listen to the local talk radio station here in Ottawa. One of the hosts has made the power grid on of the issues they talk about and has had a few ppl on to talk about it. It's not good. It's a miracle nothing has happened yet lol.
What a fascinating progression. The first 45 were a challenge but then Jordan hits his stride and learns how to relate and engage Temple. What an interestingly self aware person she is. I am lucky that I was part of the last years of full education and experienced shop class, home ec, and music. Now I bridge both the practical and mathematic system thinkers.
"I am lucky that I was part of the last years of full education and experienced shop class, home ec, and music." They're getting rid of music? Nooooooooo! Music is fantastic. The two best decisions my parents made about my childhood were getting cats and letting me learn the clarinet.
I reached out to Temple many years ago when my oldest daughter was in grade school with a bug-insect perseverance which made it hard for teachers to deal with her. She said to use my daughters interest to teach her. The teachers were taking the opposite view. A few years Later, I took my daughter to a conference where Temple spoke. Very inspiring. My daughter thinks in pictures also which had it challenges. My view of Temple was that she was like Clamity Jane. My daughter has similar mannerisms. I liked her straight forward manner. I’m thankful for her.
My husband is autistic, my sons are and I'm pretty sure my new baby will be too, watching this and hearing Temple talk and seeing her movements are so familiar to me. This is lovely how they are both giving me tools to not only help me understand my boys and husband more but help me help them understand the way their brains see the world. Thank you Dr Grandin, i know you will not see this but my boys will certainly benefit from your wonderful mind.
As an occupational therapist, Dr Grandin was a speaker years ago at one of our conferences on behavior. . She is amazing. It seems like we rapidly lost aptitude testing , ROP, shop, homemaking, Life skills training. All for ease of lifestyle and this has led to a decline in skills and trades. Thank you Dr Peterson for bringing awareness to this and helping it to have a come back.
In Paraguay, many of those teachings are standard in school: music, theater, arts & crafts. To this day I have those little projects around my house, and I can imagine pretty much everyone else does. I can paint some porcelain, embroider a burlap rug. At home, I learned everything else: basic masonry, basic electricity, basic plumbing. Now that I live in my late grandpa's house, I've taken to fiddling with his carpentry tools. None of that is difficult, even if I'm heavily inclined to the intellectual.
It was like that until Ron Regan. He CUT EVERYTHING in the schools except sports. But he gave corporations tax cuts. In school we had everything. Listen to the music of the 60s n 70s. The albums were the result of free music in schools from the 50s to the 80s. You had to rent your instrument. Or kids would destroy them. They made a movie about her. I forget what it was called.
@@SamSung-nf6tr I think the movie was just called Temple Grandin, with Claire Danes. I've seen it. It followed her from early life (played by a younger actor as a child) to her years at a private boarding school her mother sent her to, to college, to the start of her career and her concerns with animal welfare in the meat industry, and the changes her work led to. At boarding school she designed a wooden machine with ropes and pulleys that she used to calm herself when she had anxiety attacks, that she called her "squeeze machine". She based it on something she had seen the first time she visited her aunt and uncle's ranch, which began her interest in working with animals. The cattle hands used some kind of device that would restrain the animal from both sides very briefly, at some point while they were moving a large number of them to a different location. When she asked them why they were doing it, they explained to her that the restraint "gentled" the cattle and prevented them from panicking and stampeding. They didn't understand how it worked; they just knew it worked.
ALWAYS love paying attention to Temple!!! The world owes her sooo much more than cattle handling! She’s a huge part of the reason we know, understand, and value what people on the spectrum being to our world!!!
Teaching 6-7 year olds it was obvious to me that the majority needed practical hands on Maths equipment for years longer than they were allowed. Visual learners and those not ready for abstract thought benefit greatly from tactile experience. I then photoed the equipment so they had a two dimensional colour representation reminder of it. It worked beautifully.
YES I m 50 and when myy teacher taught us to add and subtract we used colored beans... Now schools do abstract garbage and young kids dont think abstractly
Hey, welcome! As an autistic psychologist, I find JP unintelligible, his meanders just make my brain scream no. He uses forty words when four would suffice. Grandin is so clear, no waffle. She communicates like in the true scientific spirit.
Grandin is RIGHT ON about EVERY THING!! I've been worried about her same concerns for decades, as I watched schools and colleges dismantle these wonderful classes that actually benefited us as a nation. The only reason that I can explain their reasons for dismantling these vital classes is sabotage....or else they are so completely incompetent, that they didn't see what they were doing in the long run.
My understanding is that it was one of those throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bath-water things. In the bad old days, sometimes minority and/or working-class students were "tracked" into vocational classes because some school counselors simply assumed they weren't college material. When, more recently, schools became blinded by the myth that EVERYONE should go to college, as well as being moonstruck by "equity," vocational classes came to be associated with the aforementioned sins and blind spots of the past, and the solution was to get RID of the vocational classes and to shoe-horn everyone into the college-preparatory track.
@@xinalorreen2031 I knew 45 years ago, when I watched my brother and his Tball team receive their participation trophy's, 'This is so extremely wrong'. I didnt know why i felt so intensely about it, at the time. I was 11yrs old. Thanx for making me feel validated! May the force be with you?
I first heard about Dr Temple Grandin on the book of Oliver Sacks ( an anthropologist in Mars ), and have been her fan since them . What a pleaser to listen to her . Thank you , Jordan and a Peaceful 2023 for all of us 🙏🏻🌹🎉✨🙏🏻
I have worked for 25 years in the education system as an educational assistant. This pod cast is refreshing. So many professionals 🙄measured a persons intelligence through a grade or mark. I worked with all levels of high school and many of my students may not be have been able to write or do mathematics but they had loved to learn hands on. You are two of my all time favorite people. I love your passion and I identify with both of you. God bless and thank you for identifying the abilities God have given each of us. We all have a purpose and we all have gifts to bring to society. Cheers🙏
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Temple is a joy to listen to. She has so many practical insights. Isn't it wonderful how the Lord has made people differently. It's important that we enjoy and respect our differences, and do our best to help one another develop to make this world a better place. I thank God for you, Jordan, and for your compassionate love and concern for human beings.
I love this lady!! The only reason I made it out of high school was because of my high schools Technical Education Section. Thank you Leominster CTE In MA. I was useless in school other than math and science, which were just fun to do, minus being graded on. So taking Drafting & Design was the best fit for my focus. But I was very intimadated about a career in, until I got into it the field and learned more hands on experience with real life problem solving through mulitple companies. Thanks for this episode Dr. Peterson!! 🤘🤘🤘
Please consider writing this to as a Letter to the Editor. What has been happening in education has done unforgivable damage, not least of which to boys, and we are only just beginning to see the consequences.
I agree 100%! Thankfully my high school had similar classes back in the day and I was able to take art, 2-3 years of drafting (by hand), journalism, and Japanese (went on exchange too as a 14 Yr old). I was put in a remedial math class after high school geometry (I didn’t understand proofs at first and was scared of the teacher), but thankfully my remedial math teacher recognized I had a gift for math so he put me back into algebra 3 trig the following year and encouraged me to peruse engineering even though I didnt get pre calculus or calculas! Funny thing is I had so much algebra by the time I took the math placement test at the university that I tested into calculus out of the gate! I ended up graduating with a degree in chemical engineering and minor in environmental engineering. After I graduated I had my pick of engineering jobs (took a highly visual as well as collaborative one as a “ defect / inline yield engineer “ in the semiconductor industry . LOTS of patterns and visual elements we were to trace and analyze, then go back to whichever specific process group / tool we believed to be the culprit, which always involved working with the specific process engineers or techs to further assess the issue and take corrective actions. So we did a lot of detective type work on our own as well as with others or in teams. But we didn’t always work with “human” collaborators….we worked with robot collaborators too! We would often teach computers how to identify and classify different types of defects to different categories, etc. This helped us engineers had even more patterns to analyze and track down! This professor would have LOVED this job, as did I! Was a nice balance between working in the field and in the office with “the suits”! I was quite fortunate to have had that experience - they even paid for me to finish my second BS degree in Environmental Science, which I also enjoyed but they don’t teach the type of thinking discussed in this interview - but the chemical engineering education did! Now I am mostly a “stay at home mom” (plus construction projects!) . I’ve had many of the same thoughts about our kid’s education!! Shop should be required for ALL kids and start at much younger ages! They need to use it to teach analysis and troubleshooting too! It would help kid’s confidence so much too, especially as they get to be adults - realize they can take matters into their own hands and fix or improve something on their own. That they /we aren’t helpless. We have a brain, tools, knowledge, observational skills, and a sense of adventure with enough confidence in ourselves to be ok if our first attempt didn’t resolve the problem, but feel good about ourselves for actually trying to do something, and we know there is always another way - that we don’t give up. Instead LEARN! Then try again. And again. We learn with every attempt and we know we aren’t quitters. When there’s a will there’s a way! Project based learning teaches this and also helps us see the skills that other people have that we necessarily don’t have, and that’s ok! You will want to make friends w those people or at least have them on your team! Having lots of friends is always a good things when resources and having the ability to achieve some goal, task, or mission is concerned!And we get to learn from one another!
My mom and I have had this discussion since I was a kid. She thinks exclusively in words and is a writer. I think almost exclusively in pictures and ended up being an engineer. I think this conversation of yours is extremely important to help increase awareness about these differences. Thank you!
As I often do when I watch this kind of a presentation, i will stop the viewing momentarily to scream out al lung capacity how much I love, I love, I love this woman, this SPUNKY human being, Dr. Temple (temple of knowledge and energy!) Grandin for all the things she says, for the rooting to bring back the practical aspect to living in a community and for bringing up a much of what used to be common knowledge/common sense in decades long past. Thank you, Temple. I also love the evident sense of curiosity and AWE that Jordan displays towards what Temple has to say, and his going out of the way to NOT aggrandize his own input or his own general knowledge in contradistinction to Temple's. This is what I call basic human respect for the mind and standing of another human being. Thank you also, Jordan. ....and now back to our regular programming 🙂
Right? I mean, it's comical and intensely endearing to see Temple being herself and Jordan trying to accomodate her speed and way of thinking. There's several point in the interview where she takes over the wheel from him in a way I haven't seen yet. It makes sense because she's a very special thinker.
@@nicolegagneux9919 Maybe a thoroughgoing technocrat is difficult to interview - he ignores many times theories and sticks to practical matters. And he doesn't pay attention to hierarchies. Like the director of VAG, Ferdinand Piech, who was in Japan as a guest of the Emperor, and when he was presented with the Emperor's sword collection with handmade swords that were several hundred years old - he only stated that "that is a fake". Well, he knew it! He saw it immediately as a 100% engineer!
@@nicolegagneux9919 she spoke about combining different minds in a complimentary and collaborative manner and it was wonderful to see this dynamic play out here
Get rid of Lazer tag, bounce houses and all the crap and give the kids some creative outlets to nurture God Given Gifts. I loved to see the photos in anatomy and physiology books. You Tell Em Dr Grandin. 👏👏👏👏👏👏 that
I'm a huge Jordan Peterson fan, been around since the beginning. To see him interview Temple Grandin is a perfect New Years/Christmas gift. My 5 year old son is autistic and I'm always trying to show him heroes who are on the spectrum. Temple is such a legend of the community.
I designed many mechanical parts for myself all in my head faster than I have it drawn out on cad to produce the item, I have the all dimensions, moving parts everything visualised in my head including where to place the screws, the lenght and size i want to use, or even how to hide it. Which still helped me draw what I need very fast on 3d cad, there has been time I had the entire machine designed in my head before I start drawing anything.
@Pablo Moreno Cordón you could try thinker cad that runs online, think they have some good tutorial how to use it, it's by auto desk as well and it's cloud base so you don't need a computer that has the power to run it
she describes my 3 autistic grandchildren (2 toddlers and one 18y/o) (all 3 were oxygen deprived during birth) they are brilliant but others find them too quiet. The 18 y/o is always staring off into space his mom says. He was honor roll thru 9th grade. But his low social skill hindered him greatly 😪😪😪Thank you Doctor. Her ideas will help tremendously.
I started watching this for 15 minutes and after about the 10th ad disruption I realized that I have a Daily Wire Subscription. Thank you, RU-vid for reminding me to head over there! LOL! I absolutely love Dr Grandin! The movie "Temple Grandin" is absolutely amazing!! Thank you Dr Peterson for continuously bringing amazing content to us all!
She kept Jordan hopping! Such a great conversation. Temple is brilliant.... I wish the educational system today would acknowledge different kinds of intellect.
I love Temple! She helped us understand my brother so much! One of the most fascinating and compelling interviews. She's incredibly strong and set in what she knows.
You are a realistic and a true survivor What a new discovery. I’m raised in a family of 12 children and my mother was a true strong hold of the family. We do not hire people to repair. We try it our selves first. She taught us survival in life and always be thankful for everything you have and do. You sound like her. Thanks for being you
She is a futuristic problem solver. She can get from A to B in nanoseconds and doesn't fumble all over her way of thinking. We need more people like her in the creation and administration of our education systems
the issue is that she’s not futuristic. She’s animalistic; which is ironically frowned upon (It’s ironic because we live in an patronizing culture that idealizes masculinity but operates in femininity). Idiots the lot of us. 1000 bucks says what I said didnt register.
As an autistic 26 yr old male whos always balancing the masks and or being my full power level [how I describe my normal inner being who usually only the closest people in my life see.] It was a breath of fresh air seeing her talk to Jordan as her authentic full power self with not a care. Just genuinely being her true self. I was sad I waited to listen to this. Glad I came back. I remember years ago Jordan being awed talking about her at a lecture once. Honestly it's one of the few times I've heard him mention autism. His views on it are hard to find. I do wonder if he's trying to form a new narrative since the old one has tons of holes.
@@cassiohenriqueguimaraes5731 I would assume for reasons that one has a neurodevelopment disorder such as autism or adhd, can’t simply “get up and pick up the box” quite like everyone else can. They look and can even act like they are neurotypical individuals, but in reality they are internally incapable if not brought up in a community that is able to recognize ESPECIALLY in mine and our friend’s experience with being high-functioning autism. It is an often overlooked and unfortunately way too often a problem that is oversimplified by a mindset that says, “get out of your head and pick up the damn box.”
This is such an incredible conversation on so many levels. I met a man who immigrated to the US from Mexico, who had a high school education and no engineering training at all. He currently has something like 15 patents to his name. The patents are all for equipment used in drilling and excavating. He’s also a genius at operating heavy equipment, being able to do things that most operators wouldn’t even think of doing because they’re so tricky and dangerous. I’m dyslexic and much of what Grandon explains about visual thinking, applies to how I figure out things. My job involves working on peoples bodies to help them get out of chronic pain and my visual thinking skills makes me more effective than many of my colleges that memorized anatomy intellectually, but don’t know how to translate it in the touch. Most medical schools don’t even teach palpation anymore so the doctors have no idea how their intellectual knowledge translates into the real world.
Have you written about this? It is important these connections are not lost. The medical community is at a critical crossroads in history. As an observer, it looks very much like we are in danger of returning to medieval times. The dark ages is upon us if such skills are lost.
@@CertifiedPsychiatrist Thank you, but if there was more respect for hands-on learners like myself, more people now falling into despair would succeed.
I love what she says around the one hour mark about getting the "suits" out, and then she referenced McDonalds. Two of my adult children work at Chick-fil-A. They were promoted very quickly at a young age. They shared with us frequently how the "suits" would visit their location and tell them to change this and that for better operation. But our children knew these things wouldn't work because the "suits" were not in the store doing the hands-on work. They had no idea of the practical operation. So my children would have to fight for new implementations to be undone because they didn't work in the practical sense and actually slowed down production. I want to add here that my children were homeschooled and had a LOT of hands-on learning all day long. I believe this is the primary reason why they excelled in the workplace at a young age. They just knew how to do things!
The world is a better place because of Mr Peterson and Mrs Grandin . I was fortunate to see Mrs Grandin in person at a conference it was one of the best lectures I have ever been to. If you have a chance to see Mrs Grandin is definitely worth the effort.
As a mother of a high functioning autistic son she gave me great reassurance in what I was doing as a parent. I have only said "but he has autism" as an explanation, never as an excuse. I did not shield him from all experiences, I methodically introduced them. I have thought about his future endeavors ever since he showed solid academic improvement (3rd grade). Now he is 14, average in reading (up from lowest possible score), above average in math, a Cadet in Civil Air Patrol, on knowledge bowl team, math team, soccer team, and wants to be a pilot and drone pilot in the Air Force. Oh yeah, he wants a job too but no call backs yet. He does spend a lot of time gaming, but we've found these other activities in the real world too. I hope parents are inspired to look into her ideas, at least for my son they are working!
My daughter is 4. She's non verbal basically she functions about like an 18m old. The doctor told me when she was barely 3 that she'd never mature past 8 or 9. I think that's incredibly early to be defining potential.
@@BellaLu26 absolutely! Keep trying! My son's motor skills were advanced, but his verbal was just above the minimum needed to warrant therapy. We didn't get any help until he started school. Not every kid is the same though. Watch Temple's talks here on RU-vid. It's a place to start!
7 yr old non verbal son thats has ocd. We havent found the thing he excels in yet. Loves watching youtube videos of tires smashing random things. Wont play with toys or activities. Then my daughter. 9 yr old daughter is polar opposite adhd high school reading level with middle school math. High communication skills and empathy. Life is strange...
@Wheezey it is! You know for as "delayed" as my daughter is she walked into my office one time and saw my bucket of paint tubes. Keep in mind she's Never been allowed to play with those but she gave me this look I was like "oh you can take them out and look at them". She then proceeds to remove white and black and then organize the rest by color and even BY VALUE!. That's definitely not something ppl just know how to do but she did. Msybe her thing will be art. Ya never know
This was a chaotic conversation, and far more interesting than most interviews. Great to see Temple and Jordan's distinct styles mesh in such a peculiar fashion. Like Camille Paglia huffed some turpentine out the back of the cow shed.
She’s giving a lot of wisdom. This women is a treasure. We need to appreciate and really consider the knowledge and wisdom she’s dropping. If we actually listened and follow her suggestions it would change our country for the better.
I have Dr. Grandin's book The Autistic Brain. She is a national or perhaps international treasure. I love her so much, so so so happy this conversation happened. I love you both. Dr. Grandin introduced me to so many ideas, most notably that animals suffer from many of the same mental health issues as humans. I didn't know that cats and dogs could develop schizophrenia or have epileptic seizures. She is brilliant.
Remarkable!! Being a retired teacher and in my 70s.. I saw it and lived it with those who fell through the cracks as shop classes were done away with!!
Growing up i was fortunate to have a dyslexic friend & a friend with aspberger’s it gave me an understanding that not all brains work alike. I learned that i can communicate with my animals mostly in pictures & hand signals & the animals can learn what words mean. I loved this discussion.
Dr Grandin makes me well up with tears when she talks about how the education system "just doesn't get it", and with such fervor, and Dr Grandin makes me laugh, because she is the only person i have ever seen to interrupt Dr Peterson and make it look like he almost jumps back a step if not two whilst sitting, out of the sheer respect. Thank you very much for this wonderful interview, for so many reasons I would have to write another page of text to cover it all.
