I have an Anthem MRX 720 receiver and I use it as a pre-out with a 7.2.4 configuration. Anthem ARC genesis is by far the best room correction software I have used. Channel separation is incredible. Side note: Just watched Jurassic World: Dominion and OMG, best DTS:X track BY A MILE and might be my new #1 fav object based audio mix over Godzilla vs Kong.
Thank you so much for making this video. I currently have an x3700H in pre amp mode right now with my 7.2.4 configuration and I was wondering how much better a dedicated processor sounds versus an AVR. When you said that you could feel the sound make your skin twitch that's the kind of detail I'm looking for. Plus I want that awesome channel separation you get from a dedicated processor. For the longest time I could never find a video on youtube that matches an AVR in pre amp mode versus a dedicated processor besides one of Youthman's videos he did on seperates but he just didn't go into the amount of detail on the sound differences between the two, so thank you so much for finally going into more detail about the subtle sound details that you picked up on. I will be getting a Tonewinner At-300 as soon as I save up for one. Thanks again Ealan Osborne. You have the best audio,video, and music channel on RU-vid in my opinion. Keep up the great work! :)
@@ealanosborne Finally got the Tonewinner AT-300 and it sounds amazing!!! There is a big difference in speaker separation and the tone of bass. Before the bass on the AVR was there it just wasn't detailed like it is on the Tonewinner. With everything having its own place it sounds so much better. Thanks again Ealan keep up the great work!
Ealan I know I’ve been commenting a lot but thanks to you I ended up getting a Tonewinner At-300 preowner for $800 and omggggggg my stupid Elac first Gen speakers finally sound decent and the channel seperation is crazy good!! The sound is so smooth and mellow I haven’t even done any auto eq yet. Mixed reviews on it. Thanks so much man! I’ve just done distance and level match to 60db like you. Can’t wait to add height channels.
I bet a lot of the issues you ran into with the Marantz are related to bugs/suboptimal design decisions mainly the bug where they have been setting ALL the distances of your speakers wrong by a certain factor due to conversion errors (note this is fixed with the MultiEQ-X). I can find you the link if you need. Then the optimal target curve of Audyssey isn't great hence why you need the app imo. However I am curious as to why you thought that bass was better on the IOTA. I wonder if that was just they have that channel hotter or the pre-out on the IOTA has higher voltage or something. Also worth noting generally the built in test tones are not using the calibration so if you level match with db meter using them you might actually but unlevel matching so my recommendation would be to use REW or a test tone disc with the benefit of REW being that you can control the frequency range of the pink noise which makes a big difference for subwoofer pink noise. But yeah everyone talks about channel separation and object placement so that was my expected improvement you would hear.
Yeah the distance bug is a big one. But apparently doesnt effect all models. We havent been able to figure out when it started to take effect. I would expect that the new AVRs and processors coming out will not have that bug (its more of an error than a bug though)
Great video! Lots of good information! The Marantz 7015 is on clearance at Best Buy, do u think it’s worth upgrading to it, I currently have a 7011 and have a Sony A9G, and a 7.2.4 setup. I have had no issues with my 7011. Just no Auro3D. Thanks in advance.
Thanks for your kind words! :) The 7011 is still an incredible AVR even today, but I guess if you're a gamer, it might make sense to upgrade, with HDMI 2.1 support, QFT, ALLM and VRR for an ultra-smooth high-end gaming experience. That and the 7015 can have all internal amps completely shut off in "preamp mode" so it sounds JUUUST a little bit better if you had a plan of eventually getting into separates and slowly acquiring external amps. Other than that, I'd probably just stick with the 7011. :)
Bro 😎🤙🏼, Wonderful Review!! My goal is definitely to get separates for sure ✌🏼, just gotta save some 💵, always appreciate your hard work in giving us detailed reviews & funny clips included 🤣
@@rayking507 I hope so! Although they are notoriously silent when influencers request product for review. And I definitely don't have a slush fund that can support buying stuff THAT expensive just for means of reviewing. 😄
Separates are generally better if one can afford it but a good AVR with efficient speakers in a space that isn't too large, crossover set to 80hz, with dual or more subs will produce very enjoyable sound. For Denon & Marantz I suggest turning on Dynamic EQ to bring back the bass. If you do this the low end will return in a big way or you can use the new Audyssey MultEQ-X software upgrade to tweak the sound just the way you want it! Only downside though is the software is $199.99.
Some of the Denon and Marantz speakers are getting Dirac Live support in March 2023. For example the Denon 3700h and 4700h models. This is a paid firmware upgrade with two tiers…$260 and $350. I don’t get what the difference is in tiers. So if anyone is thinking about upgrading it might be better to hold off on Audyssey paid upgrade and wait for Dirac Live support in March 2023.
Andrew Robinson uses a Marantz SR8015 and it is probably more superior to the Marantz SR7015. But for sure the IOTA AVX17 and Tonewinner are the most exceptional separate platform for 9.x.4. I completely agree with your conclusion. You have nailed the current state of separates vs. receivers differentiation. Don't get caught up in feature checkboxes and crying over HDMI v 2.1 8k inputs or you will be spending millions on a processor while you should be investing in speakers and amplifiers for the long term. If you are listening to 4k Ultra HD; don't waste time with room correction etc. either. These things are mixed so well that your separate amplifiers and speakers will sing with the IOTA AVX17 and Tonewinner.
Thanks for another great video and keeping me on track through the rabbit hole. I’ve convinced myself (and my wife, more importantly) to upgrade the Onkyo TXNR686 to separates and a 7.2.4 setup in our 15x18 dedicated theater room. The decision now is Iota AVX17 or TW AT300? Is the AVX worth the extra $$$ for the additional channels? How does their room correction compare? It sounds like you weren’t disappointed with AVX17 room correction, which was good to hear. Thanks, and keep the great videos coming!
Thanks! I think one thing might night be a dealbreaker is that the AVX17 doesn’t support eARC. So if you utilize that feature a lot (like using your smart TV apps or have a PS5 connected directly to your TV) I’d stick with the AT-300 maybe
What you say about Audessey I experienced this exactly! and hated it and just learned to live with it thinking that's just the way it is maybe I'm wrong! After seeing this video I want separates now! I got a Denon x2300 which has no ability for external amps so now would be the time to step into Separates I would say. I wish Best Buy offered these things because I want to use my Best Buy Credit Card :(
Great comparison. Would be interesting to get some REW sweeps of the bass issue you were seeing with Audyssey, I bet the timing was off on your subs and you had some cancellation. My Denon does this in my space, quite dramatically, I have to manually adjust my sub delay to get proper dual sub integration (even with native dual sub output).
Hi Ealan, great content... thank yo ufor all the reviews. Had a question on the Aperion Audio Novus Slim N6SC LCR. I haven't seen any reviews on the slims. How do you like those? I'm looking for fuller sound in my rear surrounds, but can only do the flat/on wall speakers... was wondering if these woudl do the trick or do they sound thin like on wall speakers? Thanks.
I plan on reviewing those soon! Just FYI, take a look at the dimensions and weight. They’re bigger and heavier than you think! 😄 But that’s a good thing. I’ve had them as my front wides for some time, but when I officially review them, I’ll put them as my front L/R to really listen to their output. But if you do mount them, I’d make sure to screw them onto a stud (if at all possible) because they are solid! 🤘
This was brilliantly done Ealan. I'm about to switch to full externally powered speakers with my X3700. I have two old rotel power amps. It has been a journey. Although I did invest in audyssey mult eqx for the Denon. Did you use this version or the baked in version of Audyssey on the amp? I also feel like Audyssey is a bit flat and it needs a good bass bump. Dynamic EQ does a decent job of lifting the bass and punch at lower volumes too.
@@ealanosborne thanks for the response bud. I've been working with it. It's mostly manual and overriding the auto stuff it does haha. But it gives you the flexibility to do whatever you want. But I have to say, if the marantz is yours and you planning on having it for a while, then it's worth it. Otherwise don't waste money
@@wayneiceman I've done the same with an x3700 in full preamp mode+ Emotiva A700 not that long ago, definitely worth it Im very happy with the results.
@@calibre00 I'm genuinely curious. Still waiting on delivery of my second rotel amp (second hand RB985). Is the 3700 in full pre amp mode different sounding?
@@wayneiceman Im convinced that it is, the amps inside the X3700 have been measured to be very clean sounding but in pre-amp mode with good amplification this goes to another level, things are not strained in any way when the scenes get really hectic at high volumes, best way to describe it is the clarity you get from the X3700 at mid volume, is available at reference levels. Also depth of sound took a big step up, as of recently I run my front stage in full range now (as Audessey Xt32 recommend) and you could actually go without a sub, as it gets low and sounds effortless. I don't of course 😃 Ealan did a video about first time going to external amps with an avr, I think what he describes is very accurate to what I experienced also.
Would be interesting to see a comparison between the Iota and a mid to higher tier Denon AVR used in pre amp mode as Denon's usually measure better and have a reputation for sounding better for movies than their Marantz counterparts.
I’m on a short list to receive a review unit fairly soon? 🤷♂️ Maybe not before 2023 is what I’m thinking, though. 😭 I’ve been wanting to sink my teeth into it for a year!
Hı there, I can’t make up my mind. Iota with external amp or Anthem without external amps. They will cost similar if you consider the cost of 7 channel external amp for the IOTA. Many thanks.
I'd probably say go for Anthem if you listen to music a lot too through your home theater system, since it's better for that. And Anthem AVRs have more features like 8K video support, etc. So if you want better future proofing, go with Anthem. Although there is a rumor that IOTA is developing an 8K/HDMI 2.1/eARC version of the AVX17 with Dirac Live that will be released in 2023. So there's something to think about if you want to wait for awhile.
@@ealanosborne Actually I am just after raw performance for movie watching. Not interested in 8K or music listening. And I was thinking if I did buy the IOTA after all I can still use the power amp for future AVR’S OR Processors.
Hi Ealan. I bought the AT-300 after watching you videos. I'll get it in a couple of weeks. I have a 7 channel amp. Can I use inexpensive 2x stereo 50 W/channel D class amps for the heights or I also need AB amps? Thank you!
Yeah, that'd be fine to start since Atmos effects are mostly ambient atmospheric type effects, and don't require all too much power. But eventually I'd get something more powerful.
Setting subwoofer to 80hz means you are losing the 80-120 on the lfe channel. Unfortunately it won't direct it to other capable speakers it just chucks it away
Great video!!! I'm still saving up for a processor. Just curious, or if you can do a video even better, how do you measure distance on upward firing speakers. Thanks!!!
What’s your opinion on running separates if I’m only intending to have a 5.1 or 5.2 setup? Would it be worth it when considering both price and performance, would the benefits outweigh the costs overall?
I touch on that exactly in my 2022 Wish List Video. Now that more people are getting into home theater, there needs to be more options - 5 channel preamps, or 9 channel, as opposed to 13 or more like it is now. I would always suggest separates, since the balance of power and audio processing is unmatched compared to all-in-one AVRs.
It's too bad that you didn't use the XLRs available on the IOTA. XLRs / balanced audio is recommended by Hypex in their class D tech documents as significantly increasing the dynamic range of their amplifiers.
Oh for sure, but I wanted it to be as close to the same as possible when comparing the two. Do I use XLRs when I have the IOTA connected when I’m not just running tests? Absolutely! 😁🤘
Hey Ealan, good video! For me, you bought out the pros and cons between the processors and AVR’s, which is why I’m leaning towards the Denon 6700h, it gives me what I want, and the retailer I’m looking at will take trade-in on my Denon 3700h, so basically, I can get the 6700h for $1400!
@@ealanosborne Yeah, I intend to put that transaction into motion in the coming days. Just having the 2 sub outputs in the 6700h wasn’t a deal breaker. My current 3700h doesn’t have the mid-height/wide channel inputs and Auro 3D. You reviewed the Emotiva MC1 and the IOTA AVX 17, but not the ToneWinner AT300, is that right?
One of the best values in the market today, especially if you catch it on sale for $1,299 on Crutchfield. THX certified, Dirac Live, full set of pre outs for future expansion… 🤘
@@ealanosborne I know you love your pre outs. Do you happen to know if you can select the crossover for each speaker with it? Unlike my pioneer where it’s just on crossover for every speaker.
For many years i just ran an AVR with its internal an=amps and was happy. Three years ago I purchaced a Denon AVR-X3700H and an Emotova A-700 and have been very happy with the combo. My plan is to one day upgrade my AVR to a proesor. The amp should continue to serve me well for years to come!
The ability to make sounds have their own distinct placement in space coming from any given speaker, instead of bleeding into 2 or more speakers and not having pinpoint accuracy
Curious about the bass, I know most SPL meters struggle to get accurate bass readings and REW with the UMIK would probably get you better SPL readings. Audyssey sucks I am getting ready to move away from Denon because of that and have no desire to add an inline DSP. I found Audyssey cuts bass off at the knees. I am leaning toward either Antem AVM70 with ARC or Arcam AV41 with Dirac.
Seriously. I have yet to have a good experience running Audyssey. I know MultEQ-X is supposedly leagues better, but the fact that you have to purchase it on top of your initial AVR purchase is silly. Dirac Live and ARC are fantastic, and come included with many AVRs and processors nowadays, so Audyssey and/or Denon/Marantz need to address the issues with their included software.
@@ealanosborne Exactly, Sad as I feel Denon/Marantz makes the most reliable stuff out there, I have been running my X7200wa for over 7 years 7 days a week at least 3-5 hours a day and it is amazing. They need to at least offer Dirac as an upgrade option and even if I have to pay $500 more it is worth it as their prices are still better than the competition. I only recently tried my 2 channel listening without Audyssey and was pissed when I realized how much Audyssey was hurting my critical music listening. And BTW, I enjoy your reviews and videos.
Well sounds like they listened to you guys. Select Denon and Marantz 2022 receivers will be able to get paid firmware updates that bring Dirac Live to those receivers. Denon X3700h and 4700h are on the list. $260 and $350 Dirac Live price tiers. Coming in March 2023.
Well, that settles it. I'm going to have to go with something like the Onkyo NR7100 or RZ50, the Pioneer VSX LX305 or LX505. Originally I was thinking of going with the Denon X3700H and then thought of getting into Auro and moving up to the X4700H. I'm changing a spare bedroom into a 7.1.4 HT, going all out and I don't want to have all this nice equipment not being utilized properly. If Onkyo/Pioneer manage to come out with the RZ70/90 or Pioneer the LX705/905 I'll jump on those. But for now, I'm avoiding Audyssey.
@@ealanosborne hey I forgot to mention. The low volume background music in your video, nice touch. 👌 Edit: I checked another video and I guess I had never noticed it before lol
@@mikeortiz2139 Thanks! I wrote all my background music! 😁 I like to have it in there for a more dramatic (or humorous) effect for the moments I remove it 🙌
Skip the pioneer lx505. The set crossover frequency chosen is applied to all channels and not individually. The Onkyo or Denon is the no brainer option.
It would be interesting if you could review these products with real multi-channel music. There have been some astonishing albums released in 5.1 and Atmos in recent years.
@@eblack8299 Thanks for the info! I think you could get away with just using the internal amps for quite some time, given that the SR8015 has quite a lot of built-in power, your listening space is small, and the Motion 40 speakers are quite sensitive. 👍 That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to eventually get external amps, since the Motion 40 speakers can handle up to 300 watts of power. 💪 But since your SR8015 is new, no need to rush into external amps. Just enjoy your current setup until the upgrade bug bites. 😁
Great video. As mentioned I’m considering a processor down the line. Is there a processor with Dirac live that you recommend without going broke? Thanks 😊
Right now, the cheapest you can get with Dirac Live are Onkyo and Pioneer AVRs, but that's a helluva deal. With processors, yikes - you're spending lots of money, like with the Emotiva XMC-2. Although, IOTA has said they're working on an updated version of the AVX17 that will have 8K and Dirac Live, but probably won't be available until 2023 at the earliest
