Comparing two games which set out to put their own spin on the Metroid formula. Heavy spoilers and both games get a recommendation from me so I encourage you to play them before watching the video if possible.
19:27 What's bizarre about this issue is that Super Metroid effectively solved it over two decades ago, with the X-Ray Visor upgrade that let you scan rooms quickly to find various "secret blocks" rather than try all your items on every single wall, floor and ceiling. And even if you didn't get the visor, the Super Bombs had a similar function as a secondary effect.
@@emperortgp2424Because you have to choose to use it. You can scan every room, but doing so is time consuming and not worth doing, or in the case of Power Bombs, eats a limited resource that is hard to come by. Instead you use these options when you have an inkling of a secret - when you notice a strange wall or think a secret might be in the room.
@@meathir4921 you also have to choose to check regular illusory walls in games that have them. how is the x-ray visor different? i'm sincerely asking as i haven't played super metroid
@@yafarblasco4524 Illusory walls are usually a lot more obvious (emphasis on usually. There’s a couple that are just… no one is finding them). They’re usually archways with a door missing, or a set of candles set on a wall, etc. In Super Metroid, fake walls look like any other wall. Granted, this isn’t true for all of them - some have visible gaps on the other side or are semi see through, but generally they’re much harder to find. Also, checking an illusory wall is a roll or attack. It doesn’t take that long. Using SM scan visor or power bombs requires you to stop, scroll with select to the visor or bombs and then use it and wait to turn the visor/for the bomb to explode. It’s wayyy slower. Halts all momentum.
@@meathir4921 i imagine that you also get the certainty that there are no fake walls if you check with the visor, while in something like a souls game even if you check obsessively you feel like you might have missed one, which sucks. interesting how such a small mechanical difference makes a large impact on game feel. anyways thanks for aswering!
One thing I loved about ESA was how compact and resourceful it was. You have a small-ish world that still feels expansive and you revisit areas multiple times, but often there's new context and secrets to discover. It was also a much more focused experience than Axiom Verge. I also feel that ESA deserves more credit for its visuals. It's difficult to make lo-fi pixel art that conveys information well and looks good. That said, this video makes me want to go back to Axiom Verge. I probably missed a lot of stuff.
It's odd... I distinctly recalled Matthew's voice during my own playthrough of Axiom Verge, telling me that the save rooms never hold any secrets. Yet I checked them all anyway. Maybe this kind of conditioning is already rooted too deeply?
Yeah, he only mentions Metroid in the beginning. I think "Metroidvania" was originally a term for Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, since it resembled (unlike previous Castlevania titles) Metroid with its open map. Later 2D Castlevanias continued with this style. Calling other games "Metroidvanias" doesn't make much sense. Better would be just "Metroid-style games", since this genre is not based on Castlevania. But whatever. :D
@@cube2fox castlevania was still early in the development of the genre and added its own mechanics to the genre that metroid and super metroid didn't have, so I think it's fair to call them that. Also metroid was arguably not the first metroidvania really. There was things like Kid Icarus which introduced a lot of the mechanics which metroid used. And things like Pitfall and Adventure on the atari. It's quite interesting the history of all those Nintendo games, it was different parts of Nintendo competing with each other to make open world games with RPG elements without being RPGs like the turn based, grindy kind that later became synonymous with final fantasy. So out of that, Miyamoto's team made Zelda, another team made Metroid, and another team made Kid Icarus, all trying to do the same thing but with their own twist
@@duffman18 I unfortunately never played Kid Icarus. I should probably do that sometime. Is it good? At any case, it's interesting how similar Zelda and Metroid are, in that they do not require you to level up. You just gain strength by collectibles. By the way, the channel "Game Makers Toolkit" compared the map of Metroid games in a video to Zelda's dungeons (it's called Boss Keys Super Metroid or so).
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 Well then people would think that it's a Zelda like game. Which it's not. Metroidvania is a good term for the genre. Everyone immediately knows what you mean when you use that term...which is the point.
@@jaykelley103 He's on an indefinite hiatus. Even he's unclear on whether he'll be back or not. He's currently putting all his efforts into game development.
I'm not sure anyone ever talks about it, but your sense of humor absolutely destroys me. Maybe it's because I come into videos with the mindset for really wonderfully written criticism. So when the humor does happen, it really takes me. I still chuckle when thinking about the Demon's Souls shortcut clip. Anyway. As always, wonderful video. I greatly admire your work.
please, if its not too tedius for you, can you tell the video and minute of the joke, i love his sense of humor as well, like in this vid ar 21:00 thanks
I agree, Matthew's humour is great because it's so dry and sparingly used. Those little personal flourishes add a lot of character to what might otherwise be somewhat sterile commentary.
I watch this video at least once a month because ESA is an absolute masterpiece and I feel like the game needs more attention - and because you are hands down the best channel on RU-vid and I always feel like I come away a little smarter even after repeat views of the same video. Thank you.
@@seraphcreed840 It's weird, I liked the music of ESA's title theme a lot, but the rest of the soundtrack hasn't impressed me that much. None of the tracks are bad, but there is few of them and they all feel kind of the same, except maybe for the piece playing in the maridia looking area. Combine that with the fact that I don't care much for the visuals either, and it's honestly kind of impressive how f*cking much I love this game regardless, cause usually these superficial elements are very important to me.
Spot-on analysis, Matt! I think Axiom Verge really captures the feeling of a delve into the unknown better than pretty much any other game in the genre since Super Metroid. Haven't played much of Environmental Station Alpha to judge but your critique got me more interested than I had been before.
I like this format, it's insightful and brings a new perspective to the table. Really helps you stand out from all the other video-essayist reviews. Looking forward to the next time you do one of these. Kind of reminds me of NakeyJakey's "Games that should Bang" series. While I love Jakey, I feel like his concept on having a discussion on two games at once could use a little more focus and deeper plumbing.
Man, I had the song "Amnesia" from the Axiom Verge soundtrack stuck in my head for weeks after playing the game, thanks for putting it back in my head Matt.
If you are baffled by the generational place of Station Alpha: I'd say it's roughly Gameboy Colour or so - rather than "between" SNES and NES. At least the style, which looks very much like "hand-held", the colours and some effects look tendentially more complex.
Solid video talking about two excellent games. The thing in this video that I cannot possibly agree with any more is the whole "regular looking walls are actually breakable/walkthroughable and have secrets hidden behind them". I cannot stand that either and I wish devs stopped doing it. Give a visual clue or something, it doesn't have to be obvious but at least something so I don't have to spend a good majority of the game running around, pushing into walls and shooting every block to make sure there's nothing hidden. It's irritating and it's been a thing for far too long. You can still plaster your game with secrets without having to resort to such a stupid mechanic.
PlatinumWeapoN666 I've never had a problem with it. I always think of Doom when I find a wall like that. Dark Souls 3 does illusionary walls really well too.
Agreed. Both Castlevania and Metroid solved this issue a long time ago--the former with familiars and enemy souls, the latter with the various visor upgrades. Why indie titles can't use something similar to both games irritates me.
@Quarter Blazer Well, Dark Souls uses visual cues, so of course you don't have a problem with it. OP is talking about games where the walls aren't different in any way whether they're breakable or not, with no clues indicating that there might be something. It's a frequent thing in metroidvania indie titles, and I do agree, it's kind of annoying.
It's especially stupid in age where the internet exists. If you give some form a clue, many (most?) players will probably find many (most?) of the secrets on their own and enjoy doing so. If you use the "wall that is the same as every other wall"-like-thing that leads to checking everywhere, many (most? lol) players will end up looking it up online or just ignoring it.
@@codythompson9973 But Doom also did it in a questionable fashion. "Here, hit the use key on this wall, or just attack it! It's a perfectly normal wall, but it just happens to open up and lead to a secret" is not what I would call good design in today's landscape. I guess this is one of those things where that game shows its age.
Have you played around with the idea of the aspect ratio of ESA being deliberate for game feel? Not necessarily to hearken back to retro games, but instead as a way of constricting what the player can know. These days that ratio can seem foreign and limiting which can emphasize the discomfort of the environment. Similarly, the lowbit art style could feed into this as well; it's enough to discern what's around you but so little that you can never fully understand. I think it restricts video games as an art form when we write these things off as missed opportunities or as a negative when it comes to building an experience.
Never heard of Environmental Station Alpha (Was already getting ready to purchase Axiom Verge on the Switch). I'll come back to this video when I've played both. Thanks for the recommendation and I hope that you continue to do comparisons that include lesser known games.
oh wow, i never noticed that the environment animations in axion verge sync to the beat. but once you mentioned it i realized id kinda felt it all along. how cool. excellent stuff as always.
The beeping indicating that you're on low health is also synched to the music which is the best thing that all games where a low-health beep exists should use.
Rabi-Ribi needs more love, it's amazing. I don't think Axiom is on the level of ESA, main reason being - ESA's second half, that is more La-Mulana then Metroid.
Always a pleasure getting a new analysis from you. Im still hoping for a proper Dark Souls 3 review from you, or even a Bloodborne one if you happen to own a console. Great work as always.
Would love to see a similar comparison between Axiom Verge and Axiom Verge 2. It's really tempting to be disappointed by how different the sequel is, but I think the fact that it Verges its Axiom so dramatically is really interesting.
Excellent video. Great perspective. I would never have thought to compare these two games this deeply, and now it seems so obvious I almost feel stupid.
In regards to your issue with secrets behind walls at the very end, I think ESA handles it much better than AV. Like you said, AV has several different ways to check for hidden items, while ESA has only a couple. Plus, AV's secrets are usually little nooks in rooms you'd already go through, while ESA's tend to have their own spot on your map. Lastly, ESA's map is much denser than AV's, so if you see a hole in your map in ESA that's its own prompt to check it out, while AV's map is full of massive holes. To AV's credit, many of the secrets are housed in side paths, but the benefit of that is mitigated by the many gaps that do not contain secret side paths.
You were looking for the "meme" in the end, i think. Although more in the way Dawkins meant it and less in the way it is more commonly used today. Great video as always :)
I played AV a few years ago and really enjoyed it. I had ESA for a few months in my games but hadn't played it until I saw the title of your review. Stuck on some of the bosses but enjoying it so far and looking forward to hearing your opinions when I finish!
Watching this video was a treat as is every time this quiet channel recieves it's next upload. On a slightly different note I'm reminded why I subscribed to Matthew and what makes his critiques and comparisons so enthralling. While more popular game critic Joseph Anderson spent this time writing his latest scathing 2 hour epic on whatever popular title will get him views relying mostly on saying things for shock value or blabbing on about some inconsequential biased "flaw," Matthew spent his time making a far shorter but more concise comparison on two less popular titles that was built upon legitimately interesting analysis. It says a lot about his channel and how it differs and ultimately surpasses so many of his peer's content. I was imediately delighted to see this video uploaded and was not disappointed in the final product. Great video as always!
Amazing video. ESA simply does not get enough love. These are 2 of my absolute favorite Metroid-like games, though I must admit I do like Axiom Verge a bit more despite its flaws. I just liked the weapon selection and controls a bit better, and the drone is awesome. ESA has a much better challenge though which is a huge plus for that game. That plant boss is incredibly challenging
I just played through Axiom Verge for the first time recently, and I loved it despite the noticeable flaws, like what you mentioned with the unclear play areas. You definitely sold me on Space Station Alpha, though.
For Christmas, I wanted a metroidvania and I had narrowed it down to a few games. Axiom Verge was not part of them, but this video still helped me feel more confident in choosing environnemental station alpha. Thanks! Why does the description say ''massive spoilers'', tho? There is some footage of what I assume are later areas, and you talk about some of the powerups found in both games, but it doesn't really feel like you're missing out on anything. Edit:So, I'm at 102% in ESA. It's indeed getting very complicated after the first ending. Still, I've manage to find a second ending mostly on my own, and I've also found a new boss behind those pillars, plus one of the rainbow keys. I also wrote down all the alien dialogue cause I've no idea yet how revealing the language is gonna work- will it automatically translate after I've done something(no idea what), or will have to make the translation myself? Anyways, it's all a lot of fun. Now, I did my final attempt at the pantheon of Hallownest of this game, which, like it's path of pain, seems a lot more easy than it's Hollow Knight counterpart(yes, I know ESA came out long before, but I bought this game because it looked like it would appeal to my Hollow Knight tastes, so I can't help but make the comparisons). Second edit:Got the usurper, maze and asteroid endings:D What a game!
Great video. I found your ramble about shared code at the end very humanizing--a wonderful change of pace compared to the meat of your content. I think sprinkling a few more of those throughout the video will go a long way in making your points easier to digest for the viewer.
Hey Matt I know this is unrelated but with the recent remaster of "Shadow of Colossus" just being released, do you plan to do something similar to the wind waker hd comparison vid you did a while ago?
Geez, you seriously have like the most relatable taste in video games to me. I don't really get into many games often, but Devil Daggers and ESA have been 2 of the few I have gotten really into in the past.
I'm glad you mentioned the dash in Axiom Verge. That was the single gameplay element that stuck out hardest to me when I played through. I have no idea why the input method was implemented in such a strange fashion with no way of rebinding it. Rather than being a fun, punchy, responsive tool it ends up feeling very awkward to use due to the slight stutter step as you release the movement button to tap again. It could've been an awesome addition that really opened up new level and boss design possibilities in the late game, but the control method is just too finicky to take advantage of that.
Love ESA, a sequel is in the making. Post game content too esoteric IMO. Been looking at Axiom Verge's trailers since 2011 and wanted it since then but damn I have to buy it lol, still have to wait till the price gets low enough.
What's wrong with a game having teleporters? We could wax about how ideally every game would have some insane movement options that makes backtracking engaging but I don't see the issue in offering a convenience to the player that they can choose to use. Maybe they want to figure out if trekking to their destination is faster than taking a teleporter. It also allows them to more freely explore stuff without feeling like they might be wasting a whole lot of time. There's probably other level design and movement tricks that one could implement but in their cases maybe they had more important stuff going on and this is a better compromise than reorganizing the whole game map or drastically changing gameplay. It just seems like a weird point to pick on when it's not like the games let you just warp to any point from any location which would actually break things. It's another option of traversal in an exploration game... kinda like how a double jump is just a tool too. Another thing I'm not really agreeing with is the ratio thing. If I see a black space on a screen, I usually just ignore it cause I'm focusing on the area that is presented to me and in ESA's case it feels completely in line with the aesthetic. It's one of those things where I feel that it would lose something if it had more fidelity where that kind of presentation could feel constricted.
I love Environmental Station Alpha since it's second half is basically more La-Mulana then Metroid (And La-Mulana is my favorite game of all time). Axiom Verge is cool, but it ends when ESA is only begins, it's a much deeper and more epic of an adventure. In the end - i'm just happy ESA gets more attention because of this video, it's a really special game.
I feel that this was an interesting comparison between these two games. I actually never heard of Environmental Station Alpha before this video and I really think I should check it out, especially since it seems to have a comparable loop to Axiom Verge.
Awesome video, I'll give both a try. I'm a little burned out on Metroidvanias a the moment, though, having just finished Iconoclasts. It would be nice to hear your thoughts on that one.
Great vid! I played both of these and loved your breakdown of the two. I wanted to love Axiom Verge but I really found it tough to get into, for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. The level design constantly pulled me out of the exploration-groove and I very rarely felt immersed in its world. I'm glad to see you give ESA some publicity as I really enjoyed it. My main complaint, however, is with how twitchy the combat was, perfectly emphasized by your explanation that the health doesn't scale. I once heard someone describe Metroid as "strength through exploration" and I think ESA fails at that with its bosses. Most of Super Metroid's bosses can be cheesed if you have enough upgrades. Some might say this is a flaw but I think that fits the game perfectly and complements its focus on exploration. With ESA, I'd have so shift gears from atmospheric exploration to mega-man style action for 15+ minutes (or 2 hours for the last boss...) and it just pulled me out of the experience. Aside from that, I thought ESA had much better visuals, audio, exploration, level design, etc.
Dear Matthew, I (as well as the rest of your subscribers) really like your reviews. I know you mentioned that you have prepared the scripts for your next reviews. In the past few days, I rewatched your reviews on the older Zelda titles and I wanted to ask, if you can also, in the future, cover Zelda BotW. I would really enjoy this and would love to see your take on this game.
matt, that single block wall, when you first get to the surface stumped me for far longer than it should have. I don't feel so bad knowing I wasn't alone in this mistake, however. It seems to be another reason that the phase coat is by some criteria, well-designed.
I know you gonna do whatever you want to, but I would love a review on Hollow Knight, I feel like that game mastered this genre and took it to another level, loved the video btw Matthew ^^
Matthew, if by any reason you read this, you made a small cofnusion between the two games (which it's surprising is just one lol). At approximately 8:45, you are talking about Station Alpha's small health bar leading to good boss design and then that this small health bar is not necessary, and you say "Metroid has as good bosses, or even bettter, than *Axiom Verge* ". Nice video, thanks :)
I dont believe that was a mistake. I thought he meant that Super Metroid had an even bigger health pool than Axiom Verge AND still had better bosses. ESA bosses are WAY better than the ones in SM, imo.
I haven't played either of these games, but I have played Super Metroid. Thinking about your point about secret walls looking like normal walls, Super Metroid also did this, but they always gave you a visual clue in the mini-map (as far as I remember, anyway). A room with nothing hidden would have a complete white outline, but a room with a secret would have a white line omitted in whichever direction the secret was. I don't know if Station Alpha has a mini-map or a regular map, but I'd be surprised if Axiom Verge didn't have that little visual clue in it's mini-map.
Awesome comparison and deconstruction of both games similarities and opposites. I've played both games myself and have formed opinions on both. I wish I could express them as thoroughly as you do. By the way, the word you were looking for at the end is called meme (like gene, but in relation to concepts that evolve from the book the selfish gene). Another addendum: You can find development posts on ESA2 here: www.hempuli.com/blogblog/archives/category/games/esa although he hasn't posted anything substantial on ESA since end 2015
While I love the sudden turn ESA took in the post-game, I really didn't like how you had to traverse the entire game map several times just to get the final ending.
The backtracking in ESA was something that bothered me as well. I felt that the game punished exploration at times by allowing you to open up new paths that led to dead ends unless you'd gotten more abilities, with way of knowing what additional abilities you'd require beforehand. I don't mind backtracking if it feels rewarding and offers fun challenges along the way, but often times backtracking in ESA leads nowhere, and I didn't think the regular enemies were designed well enough to make repeated encounters with them interesting.
I didn't really mind that. That's par for the course of varying levels for the genre. My issue is that getting the last, "you did everything" ending means doing several separate scavenger hunts, and they span nearly the entire map. The last one is a complete bitch to do, too. This is in addition to several obtuse puzzles, which were already somewhat frustrating.
