They don't really care that she knows. They probably even know she's the one that gave the order for the Earth/Mimbari War. Another Star Riders sized wedge in their culture would be nice, and more toward the real point of their efforts...getting the younger races to choose them. The Shadows have reason to believe she might even destroy The Gray Council. Given that they disregard the Mimbari's ability to actually stop them from doing much of anything, it's certainly worth the try. Besides, I always got the feeling that the Shadows liked sticking in the Vorlon's eye.
It is implied that she has an implant that allows this. The same happened at the end of the series with London on mumbar. She senses the keeper on him briefly.
G'kar had the second best. "I would like you to go away." As bad as it got for Narns, it would have been worse if G'Kar hadn't greeted the Shadow presence with exactly that reaction.
My only complaint is Vir says "I want to live just long enough so...." then he continues living for many years after waving. I love the guy so that's how it should be, I just wish the dialogue was cleaner when it is an intentional callback to very specific language.
I think in the scene in one of the films where Londo asks the question of two children, and they simply reply " a story " - that's a decent answer, Londo even sadly admits it was a better answer than his own.
Morden was a great villain. Sad that we didn't get an episode with him and Bester in it. Imagine them working against each other ? It would have been epic !
Against each other or unknowingly with each other. The Psi Corp was a tool of the Shadows whether they realized it or not. All of the actions of the Corp were to subvert the weapons of the Vorlons (telepaths) towards the ends and desires of the Shadows.
The greatness of Morden is that he convinced everyone, viewers included, that he was a villain at all. He was, quite literally a shadow puppet with just barely enough of his living personality intact to be an affable and engaging conversationalist.
@@valashar5313: I wonder if he was tossed into a Shadow ship and "altered" to be a more suitable "ambassador" for the Shadows. It's more terrifying if he voluntarily collaborated with the Shadows though.
I like how she has the Sanskrit symbol of ‘Ajna’, which means the third eye (that sees the hidden truth of things) right where it belongs… So many beautiful details about this series, that I can only appreciate as I am getting older! 👏🏽☺️✨
I mean.. I looked it up... They're similar but not the same symbol... Pretty sure her symbol is just the 3 sides of the Grey Council, which formed the trinity. I suppose you could pull the Ajna card and I could pull the holy trinity card. Does anyone know if the producers clearly defined what this symbol was all about?
@@ICU1337 always assumed it was because she was in the gray council and the triangle is gray, also triangles and the number 3 in general are all over minbari art and culture as established in the episode where they reveal who valen actually is(I dont wanna give any spoilers), the lamps on minbar are pyramid shaped on season 5, as well as the triluminary being a triangle shaped object, "On Minbar 3 is sacred" - Delenn there are many other examples lol
One of my two favorite season 1 scenes with Delenn. This one where she knows the shadows have returned, and the one where she rips Neroon a new one in Legacies. Though spiritual and kind she was not to be messed with.
@@drakkondarkspell great scene. I Sam also reminded of when a much older Delenn appears in front of some historians and cuts them to shreds with her primary source knowledge of events. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DrPe80sxlm4.html
I'd forgot that Delenn was able to sense the presence of Morden's Shadow escorts. On another note it's a damn shame that Mira Furlan died age 65 from complications of West Nile virus infection in January 2021.
I honestly didn't know of her passing. Mira Furlan seem to have been a lovely lady in the interview at Con that I watched. Her Character in B5 was amazing, considering she was still learning the English language, Mira delivery great performances.
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uUrj4RkQsD8.html. In the case of Morden and the Shadow, yes it was. Killing Cartaggia was another matter, but necessary.
I like how she is backing away as she tells him to get out. I wonder if she knew even then that Morden had shadows standing next to him and was telling/begging them to leave
When this episode aired, JMS [the show's creator] said that all members of The Grey Council basically have "shadow-detectors" just in case this very thing every happened. So yes, Delenn not only knew, she was equipped with tech so that she _would_ know.
To think, if she had revealed that she knew they were there, they would have killed her right then and there. That would have changed a LOT of thing in this show.
@@KuraMad2000 i am pretty sure they knew that she knew, they aren't idiots but if they killed her the vorlons would have killed londo or the likes, it's tit for tat, just like in real life
The actress plays that moment of realisation and fear really well as Delenn fo the first time in her life actually has an encounter with the Shadows (something she's known about her whole life but never met, or their presence.
It's funny. Morden should've known better than to try and ask a Minbari the question, considering they are connected to the Vorlons more closely than pretty much any other race. But something about Delenn back then made it tempting for him to do so anyway. Maybe her righteous anger?
I always thought he didn't know for sure how tightly the Minbari were tied to the Vorlons. Basically Morden is approaching all lesser races to see where each stands - some are loyal to the Vorlons (Minbari - sticking to their alliance from the last war), some open to changing sides (Narn - fought with Vorlons long ago against Shadows at the cost of their telepaths, but loosing telepaths meant Vorlons had no more use for them this time round), some have no prior ties to Vorlons & make the best potential allies (Centuri - see nothing when Kosh is revealed, because not seeded by Vorlons with favourable religious imagery), and some are new to the conflict (Humans - although primed by the Vorlons through religion & telepaths they are still elements of the Government open to working with Shadows - like Clark). No matter the past alliance each lesser race is given the same opportunity to choose where they stand this time round - possibly part of the "rules of engagement" both Vorlons & Shadows respect, such as not directly attacking each other. Both sides can manipulate & influence the lesser races, but still the choice of which side to join is offered - this is Morden (and by extension the Shadows) scouting out the current position of each Government & the only way to know for sure is to ask, even if the answer could have been guessed (maybe different elements of the Minbari Grey Council would have been more open to switching sides - like the warrior cast are later shown to split with the council & the religious cast end up manning the White Stars with the Rangers).
I imagine the shadow are probing all possibility, if they could corrupt/manipulate a Minbari ambassador, the could hurt the Minbari from within, plant the seed of doubt within the people.
@@M-E_123 BTW: Back when that episode first aired, JMS [the show's creator] said that Londo seeing nothing when Kosh revealed himself had nothing to do with Londo being Centauri and _everything_ to do with Londo being Londo. Every race with telepaths had been visited by and genetically manipulated by the Vorlons, a detail stated more than once during the 5 seasons.
@@squintps Huh? It was held back a year so as to not get caught up in the potential network sale - according to JMS. Which doesn't mean it will be picked up necessarily but they're working to shield it from the current uncertainty.
Streaming makes it more allowable these days. It was pointed out that back then because of the long storytelling as you lost viewers overtime you wouldn’t pick up new ones because they would have to start at the beginning or they wouldn’t understand what was going on. And back then that was extremely difficult if not impossible to do. Episodeic shows allowed you to miss episodes with little damage. And allowed new people who just picked it up to just hop in.
Sure but, a lot of streaming shows only get seasons of about 10 episodes instead of the 20ish network shows got. So over all that's less time to tell your story. Plus B5 is unique in that they were guaranteed for five seasons pretty much from the get go, while most shows are only green lit one season at a time. That's why they have so many set ups that don't pay off for three seasons. If other shows did that they'd risk being canceled half way through a story arc abd having an unsatisfactory finale. That's what I ment by an opportunity most show runners don't have.
In the terms of what do you want...I want the remastered version of Babylon 5,or Blu ray,4k.I would gladly buy series again.have bought it twice,gave my friend original set,when I bought larger set with movies. My original set was fantastic on regular TV,but fuzzy!lightly grainy on large screens with people,though not all.the exterior shots still breath taking. The new set seems worse,large grainy in places,plus an occasional white line going quickly through picture. So I hope the show(and DS9)with be re-released in an upgraded format. Such an amazing show,still relevant today. And the cast....!
I remember her having a similar experience around Londo after he got his keeper. It seemed like she wasn't sure why she was feeling it though and the triangle didn't show.
The Shadows question was an appeal to greed. The Vorlons question was an appeal to... Self-doubt? Introspection? Jack the Ripper's episode revealed it was quite twisted too in its own way.
Not him the evil beings attached to him. Kinda like if satan was the permanent sidekick attached to a person you're expected to work around and you feel it but can't let on you know.
@@spartybrearly7221 just about every religion I've ever heard of will not offer hospitality to an evil being. Even vampire lore says it has to be invited in. My impression was also that it was an unwanted visit.
Morden should have known that the Minbari supported the Vorlons against the Shadows in the last great war. Especially since there is even a Vorlon ambassador on Babylon 5. Maybe the Shadows just wanted to test if the alliance still stands, and if the Minbari still recognize them.
May as it be the mimbari never knew the nature of the shadows. It can be assumed that the shadows didn't suspect her to be able to perceive them or maybe the shadows themselves didn't particularly familiar with the mimbari themselves despite knowing that they helped the vorlon during the war.
I suspect they wanted the ultimate act of counting coup by turning the Minbari against the Vorlons. It was significant enough for them to risk exposure to achieve.
Mr. Morden being genuinely confused at the time and not being a smug asshole when he's told to fuck off tellz me he really didn't know the history of the Minbari, their relationship to the Vorlons. His Shadow handlers behind him should've known. They probably knew that she'd flip shit in their presence. I wonder why they bothered to have Morden pay her a visit?
I thought about it as well? Is it not known to him that minbari and vorlon has been working together for a long long long time? They fought shadows together in the last great shadow war for christ sake! 😂 I guess he was checking if that old coalition between the two races still happening?
This never really made sense to me, except as a Because Plot/Because Drama giveaway. The Minbari wouldn't have needed the Shadows help, if they wanted to take things over.
I thought about it as well? Is it not known to him that minbari and vorlon has been working together for a long long long time? They fought shadows together in the last great shadow war for christ sake! 😂 I guess he was checking if that old coalition between the two races still happening?
And then she tells Sheridan in season 2 that she didn't know they were here until she asked Kosh. Yeah, J. Michael, we believe that, sure. (I would just like to know what her question to Kosh was *supposed* to be. It has to have been something about Sinclair, doesn't it?)
No, the question Delenn had Laneer put to Kosh was "Have the Shadows returned to Z'ha'dum?" Here she realized that Shadows were on Babylon 5 but didn't yet know they were on their homeworld (or were active on their homeworld after the crew of the Icarus accidentally woke them up).
Okay, fair enough. I still say it doesn't fit her reaction to Kosh's verification in "Chrysalis", but I'll concede it's not openly self-contradictory. (Not like, say, the whole business of Talia Winters having a latent PsiCorps-sculpted Mr. Hyde in her mind, and her god-level, PsiCorps-abhorring lover just leaving it there while he was rearranging her neurons to give her superpowers.)
Where is Babylon 5??? I don't care what Sheldon says... I want to see this again; after what??? Twenty five years??? Yes, on regular cable! Not plus this or plus that! Regular cable!
The Minbari stuff was a bit overly mystical early on. The triangle thats supposed to be used for interrogation in some way lights up in the presence of a Minbari soul and we later learn its essentially acting as a glorified DNA tester. "He doesnt just have a Minbari soul, he has Valens soul".... I wonder why.
the showrunner was active on internet forums and said something like that it was a gift from the Vorlons to the Grey Council (like an implant) that activated in the presence of the Shadows
Attempting to corrupt them, do they want any spaceships to have mysterious accidents? The Shadows are hiding who they are so you dont know who is doing you the favour.
"Babylon 5 Remastered" has been scanned from the original camera negative. The film sequences were scanned in 4K and then "finished," or downscaled, back to HD, with a dirt and scratch clean-up, as well as color correction. The show's CGI sequences, meanwhile, have been digitally upscaled to HD with only some minor tweaks where absolutely necessary.
