Backcountry Water Treatment, Part 2: Chemical Disinfection

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This video is Part 2 in a series on Backcountry Water Treatment. It is recommended that you start at the beginning, as each video builds upon concepts introduced previously.
Backcountry Water Treatment, Part 1: Boiling vs. Pasteurization
• Backcountry Water Trea...
In this video, you’ll find information on:
The three major classes of chemical disinfectants made for backcountry use
With Pros and Cons for each method
Including disinfection strengths, limits, and side effects
The principles of dose vs. time and log reduction rates
Relative weight efficiency and price
Strategies for use in the field
Including how to combine methods for even greater effectiveness.
Index:
00:23 Introduction
01:49 Chemical Drinking Water Disinfection
03:11 Iodine
10:56 Chlorine
16:16 CT Values
19:44 Natural Variations in pH
21:13 Chlorine side effects and byproducts
26:53 Field Chlorine Tablets
29:08 Chlorine Dioxide
33:19 Commercial Chlorine Dioxide Options
39:54 How to Evaluate Products Skeptically
43:41 Treatment Times
46:56 Combining Methods
48:02 Weights and Price
49:52 Practical Field-Use Scenarios
Guide to CT Disinfection Made Simple
www.water-research.net/Waterl...
W.H.O. Report on Chlorine Dioxide, Chlorite and Chlorate
www.who.int/water_sanitation_...

Опубликовано:

5 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 179

@wyrdedwurd 3 года назад

As a chemist and water quality professional of 20+ years I'd just like to say that this has got to be the most thorough and fact based discourse of the subject on RU-vid. Just a note, I believe that the greatest threat for viral contamination comes from areas where surface or ground water may have been contaminated by human waste, which is why most backpackers in the US can get away with solely using hollow fiber membrane type filters. Our waste treatment processes in the U.S. mean that you're not going to encounter a lot of viruses that could infect you. With that said, I think I'll be utilizing a lot of your advice from this video, especially in areas with more potential contamination.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks very much! That means a lot. I’ve got some additional research (that I’m going to work into the next video on filters) about wilderness water quality studies and general pathogen risks. Basically, what I’ve found so far is just what you said.

@ramonjason2479 3 года назад

I guess it's pretty randomly asking but does anyone know a good site to stream newly released movies online?

@armanioakley9909 3 года назад

@Ramon Jason I would suggest flixzone. You can find it on google =)

@aronjamal4731 3 года назад

@Armani Oakley definitely, have been watching on Flixzone for years myself =)

@ramonjason2479 3 года назад

@Armani Oakley Thank you, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I really appreciate it!!

@OneLocalStudent Год назад

The information on this channel is so good, well-sourced, and well-organized that I am shocked it has as little engagement as it does. This video is over a year old and it has less than 700 likes. Truly shocking and underappreciated.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

Thanks! That’s very kind of you. I’m perfectly happy with a small but well-curated audience 😁

@cgnicolis Год назад

Seriously, this should be required viewing for anyone planning a thru-hike, or even contemplating dipping their canteen in a stream on a day hike. Enlightening, to say the least!

@nvalley 3 года назад

Sometimes I ask myself why I'm sitting through an hour of discussion on water purification but then I remember that this is the best and I'm so glad there are people this dedicated to info-nerdery out there sharing their findings. Thank you!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Info-nerdery. I like it!

@yemrot1 3 года назад

I think I'll take the weight penalty and carry a couple of six packs. I'm really enjoying the whole series of videos. Thank you for the incredible research!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Oh, I should have done a segment on the fourth type of disinfectant...Alcohol!

@yemrot1 3 года назад

There’s still time. 😁

@hugmynutus Год назад

@@GearSkeptic It is also a great pain killer, local antiseptic, and incredibly energy dense (at least ever-clear is).

@romererunamerika9437 9 месяцев назад

lol back in the 70's we used to carry a steak and beer for each first night of the the trip. so how tasted so good after carrying a 60lb pack and sweating bullets up hills.

@kathleenrickard4293 2 года назад

My 1st ever comment on YT. As a nurse & someone who has AT hike on her bucket list, I very much appreciate all of your evidence based research & experimentation. Your hiking nutrition series & this series is ‘chock full’ & ‘flowing’ with meaningful content! If I can’t find Lambas bread, I will download your food lists for my future hiking trips. Thank you!

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks very much! That really means a lot!

@billb5732 Год назад

Summary: 51:40 Occasional-Use: Aquamira Frontier Straw + CLO2 47:07 Sawyer/Katadyn + ClO2 + 30 minutes. (4 hours if only using ClO2). 49:10 ClO2: Potable Aqua or Katadyn Micropure MP1

@ryanhumphrey6231 3 года назад

Really looking forward to the next installment. I’m sure I’ve got all sorts of misconceptions when it comes to the common filter types.

@Balisktic 3 года назад

I love these videos SO much 😁. It is so enjoyable to listen to someone who demands and shares the level of detail that you do. I have watched each of the others and am eagerly awaiting your next installment.

@neilquinn 2 года назад

One interesting worth mentioning with the chlorine dioxide options: While the labels say 4 hours of treatment needed, that's to cover crypto. If you are willing to risk not killing the crypto it seems only 15min is needed. Maybe a good hybrid approach would be to do 15min w/ chlorine dioxide to get the viruses and then run it through a filter. (Of course you also mentioned that running it through a filter first and THEN treating could be better too). Decisions decisions. EDIT: just realized you mentioned the 15min!

@jnbpisces 2 года назад

I submit this an unintended consequence, but you might be the best salesman of our time. If knowledge and understanding are the products.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks very much! Don’t know that I’ve actually earned that, but I’ll try to!

@Vicusvir 3 года назад

Thanks for the great in-depth research. Looks like Katadyn isn't selling the MICROPUR MP 1 in Europe. Only the MICROPUR CLASSIC and FORTE which consist of Troclosene sodium and silver. I wonder why that is.

@marambula 4 месяца назад

I’ve used sawyer with a bit of chemical backup for a decade. I sawyer squeeze straight like a straw to camel up when moving and attach a hose to my bag for gravity setup at camp or lunch break. It’s so fast and easy I can’t understand the people i’ve met who “don’t ever filter”. It’s like never using a seatbelt or wearing helmets or PPE in general, it’s just unnecessary risk when there are simple, effective, inexpensive options. As far as I know, improvements in water treatment/purification were the historical breakthroughs most responsible for lengthening average human life.

@underdgk9 11 месяцев назад

There's just no substitue for thorough scientific exhaustive research and analysis. Cudos Champ!

@tamlin6430 3 года назад

Tremendously helpful. Thank you for providing high quality information!

@marko11kram 3 года назад

Great in depth session!

@barrybrum 4 месяца назад

Another very useful video. Thanks. BTW, your quiet humor is noteworthy... e.g. whereas you offer us "a link to a 21-page guide on CT disinfection made simple".

@GearSkeptic 4 месяца назад

😉

@davidgraf197 5 месяцев назад

Incredibly detailed video. Thank you!!

@g.victorpaulson8836 3 года назад

Sir! What an excellent collection of videos! Hats off to you for your splendid research and presentation. I eagerly await your next chapter on filtration systems...

@visnuexe 2 года назад

Beautiful job! There were great recommendations as well!

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks again!

@qingfengwang2404 3 года назад

Respect! That's a lot of work and extremely useful!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks!

@themmeatsweats Год назад

commenting for the algorithm, your content is a blessing

@unwin42 2 года назад

Loved part 1 and part 2. Hope you'll continue the series.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Yes! I’m finally working on Part 3 now, on Microfilters.

@sweetbodhisoul891 2 года назад

I am so glad I found your channel! I feel like a school kid again learning something really COOL!! Looking forward the the next backcountry water treatment video!! you ROCK!!

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thank you so much! As it happens, I’m working on Part 3 right now. Hope to have it out in a week or so,

@AlanDavison 3 года назад

Excellent! Thanks for the I depth look at the different chemicals. I have never carried any tablets before, I think I will stick with my backup plan of pasteurization.

@mountaineer5596 Месяц назад

Great video, thanks.

@JohnDavis-bs4cs 3 года назад

I thought part 1 was good. This was absolutely outstanding!! Gonna have to watch a few more times at slower speed to take notes. One of the best informational videos I've ever seen.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks! That is much appreciated.

@damaschda 4 месяца назад

Wow, such good content is a precious pear you find very rarely. Honestly, Thank you for the time and effort. This Chanel is absolut sensational. I am from germany so i had to translate al lot of technical terms but it was worth it every second. You have a new fan from around the world. Please keep up the good work. With sincere and honest gratitude and greetings from germany.

@GearSkeptic 4 месяца назад

Thank you! I am very glad if it can help.

@fernandoferrer6339 3 года назад

Thank you so much for this videos. They are really awesome explained and researched. I appreciate all of them and I am looking forward for the next one. I had throubles in understanding that you have to divide the CT values with the Free Cl mg to obtain the time. And also I didn't get why you choose the 2,6 Cl concentration until I did the maths and it happens to be the free Cl concentration of a typical 8,5mg NaDCC water purification tablet for 1 liter of water.

@VladimirPrsic 2 года назад

Top study man!

@cringerfringe2285 Год назад

Best. Content. Ever.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

thankyouverymuch

@Nat2uDragneel 3 года назад

Alright, coughing out that betadine wipe was hilarious. As always, great information, and very entertaining to watch! Thank you!

@wades623 3 месяца назад

This guy is the the "this old Tony" of backpacking stuff instead of machining and random garage stuff

@jaednhowlar2359 3 года назад

your vids are so good I am actually planning to watch the ones that cover subjects I have no interest in or known use for.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks! I appreciate that.

@luanamendes4767 3 года назад

I tried to get the ClO2 tabs but they wouldn’t ship to me overseas :( Thanks for another excellent video

@_..____ 2 года назад

I have a device that makes bleach with salt and water. I'm too lazy to learn how (the system looks very simple). Thank you for this thorough video. I will surely come back and watch it again later before playing with water treatment.

@TeddyBearFarmer 3 года назад

Thank You for another informative video 🥰 No more bleach backup for me I’ll be ordering the tablets incase my filter brakes .. I’m excited to see what you have to say about my filter

@cgmiller82 11 месяцев назад

I love your video's. It shows me that the Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well. With all my life experiences with water filtration/purification and hydration.... I know NOTHING. Thank you!

@GearSkeptic 11 месяцев назад

You are most welcome! I hope it can help.

@Tiger-789 3 года назад

I'm yet to buy a water filter and I'm waiting for the next video to help me finally decide.. very excited!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I’m stalled at the moment, because we just moved and absolutely all of my stuff is still in boxes. But, I am trying to get set up, again. That is, after we set up the kitchen, bathrooms, bedroom…you get the idea 😳

@Tiger-789 3 года назад

@@GearSkeptic Ooh congrats! no pressure 🤣

@JonMcLeodMelbourne 2 года назад

Excellent video quality. The minimalist approach to video and graphics used by GearSkeptic should be emulated by all RU-vid videos. I don't need to see the presenter's face. I don't want to listen to someone else's irrelevant loud music and animated video intros. I'm sick of "What's up guys!" and "Don't forget to press that like button and subscribe". Explanations here are clear and based on scientific evidence. Logical progression through evidence and analysis with useful recommendations. I learned a lot of useful knowledge. This is equal to the best content I've found on RU-vid. If I had to go back to university, this is how I'd want to see course material presented.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks so much. That really means a lot and I appreciate it!

@Gremlin4498 3 года назад

I would love to hear your thoughts and deductions on those UV waster purifier pens. Great video yet again!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks! And, I’m working on it. Just stalled out the past couple of months because we moved. All my stuff is boxes! I desperately need to get my work area set up again.

@anotheryoutuber_ 3 года назад

THANKS!

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

You’re welcome!

@lachlangunn2001 3 года назад

These are great videos, and I am really looking forward to the rest of the series. You mentioned in another comment that you had found relevant water quality data; something that I would be interested to hear (if you have the data, anyway) is how to know what you need even worldwide. Ever since I started looking into water filtration/purification I have gotten used to hearing something along the lines of "filters are fine in the US, viruses are something to worry about internationally". But if the fecal route is the concern then here in Finland (where there is a lot of land and approximately no people per square kilometre) the virus situation is probably as good or better than in many parts of the US, and so I would be keen to know how to recognise when I am about to go somewhere where it would be better to be paranoid about viral infection.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

What I have is from the WEM Journal (Wilderness and Environmental Medicine), which is just data on waters in the USA.

@lachlangunn2001 3 года назад

Thanks for the pointer, and no worries---I imagine that it must be difficult to get such data for outside the US at the best of times, and except for a few countries you probably would need to speak the local language as well which puts up another barrier (e.g. here lakes are tested every now and then but results I believe are available only in the local majority language).

@PepperGipper 2 года назад

Other than the obviously great info, I'm unreasonably happy that you used quarts instead of liters.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Uh oh! I used liters more often in Part 3! 😳

@ExploringthWorld Год назад

These videos should be taught in critical thinking classes. Bravo!

@GearSkeptic Год назад

Thank you! Very kind of you to say.

@hoopoo3721 2 года назад

I would love to see you do a video on the most common backpacking water filters. :)

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I am working on it!

@jko2435 3 года назад

thank you for your ingenious videos, can you possibly also examine the katadyn steripen (or comparable) with the next test? thank you very much

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Thanks! I am researching the Steripen and will include that in a future video. Also, I think the next one will be on hollow fiber and ceramic filters.

@aricooper-davis3605 3 года назад

Superb video, thank you for all your research and effort communicating it! When would you pasturise over use your chlorine dioxide tablets?

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I’m thinking of the following scenarios: When cooking (you’re heating water anyway) When the conditions are so challenging that it would either be quicker or more effective to heat. Those challenging conditions include: When the water is near freezing cold (it could take many hours for the tabs to work on crypto) If the water in question is really, REALLY bad and I want the obtainable massive safety margins heat can provide.

@davidmilton7 3 года назад

fantastic video! Thank you so much for making these. I would be interested in a thorough risk-assessment for untreated water in the wilderness -- so many conflicting sources and studies re: thresholds and contaminant concentrations that represent significant risk, and very little hard data/information online. Can one get giardiasis and other water-borne illness more than once? etc.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I do have some information on wilderness water safety. I’m going to work it into the next video on filters, sort of a “how much log reduction is enough” segment. Minimum infectious doses, pathogen concentrations recorded in the wild. Stuff like that. As you say, good data is hard to come by.

@luanamendes4767 3 года назад

I would love some practical advice included specially for people without a lot of experience like myself. I really enjoyed the info on the dead rat = potentially higher virus contamination. Yes, you can get giárdia more than once. You can also get other GI bacterial infections more than once. I can’t say exactly how your immunity after exposure works in these cases though, it could be highly variable between individuals. There’s a vaccine for Hep A (waterborne virus) though so I would suggest taking that for sure.

@andrewpriest9403 Год назад

This whole playlist is so fantastically good. My only nitpick on this first video is the conclusion to use low and medium flame to minimize the mass spent to boil the water. My testing at home with stoves with a fan blowing on it make it clear that wind speed really dominates the heat transfer behavior. Certain wind speeds can mean that low flame level may never reach 160degF, which would completely upend the conclusion provided.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

Good point! I’ve been gearing up to do some more testing. I want to try different burner sizes, pot sizes and shapes, looking for an optimized combination all with low, medium, and high flames. Wind speed should definitely be part of it.

@20Hikecdt23 2 года назад

Ok and thanks! I have watched both presentations. Very informative. Is there a filter that is above all others? How about Steripen? Thanks!

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I am working on research for a video on filters, and also UV treatment. It will take me a while, though.

@chadnorth9945 3 года назад

Excellent! Mind bendingly awesome as usual. Very interesting about the marketing speak. Thanks for clarifying. Was a bit disappointed to hear about Purinize but then remembered it was good for helping to filter chemical contaminants unlike anything else I've seen (per their label). Any luck in finding good info on that?

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

It looks like it is more of a flocculent than a disinfectant. I’m going to include flocculents in a Part 4 on pre- and post-filtration. They act like a pre-filter by settling out sediment. And, as you say, they have quite a few tests showing some reduction to a lot of metals and minerals (along the lines of activated carbon). Potentially a place for it in a combination system?

@chadnorth9945 3 года назад

@@GearSkeptic Awesome! Eager to hear what you have to say about them. Possibly...they'd have to be able to help remove viruses adequately enough when used with a filter in order for me to want to carry them over chlorine dioxide, or if I had to filter from questionable water sources closer to developed areas (farmland, storm drainage, rivers, etc.).

@typo4000 Год назад

Talk about chemical saturation!😂 Thanks for deconvoluting the I.B.S. and delivering some clarity on a very murky topic. 👍👍👍

@chuckstreich7777 3 года назад

Very cool. Can you cover the steripen in the filter video?

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I am, indeed, working on researching that. May be in a Part 4 on “other methods”.

@GQGeek81 2 года назад

I'm re-watching these videos for the 3rd time, this time making copious notes and screenshots in Onenote as I go along. It is a crime the channel does not have 10 times the views. Really looking forward to more information on mechanical filtration and UV. I've been using a steripen during winter (when even daytime temperatures will be below freezing) which is an awful weight penalty, but I don't have to worry about it freezing and breaking, and in those conditions, I probably have a Nalgene with me to use as a hot water bottle at night anyway. I may switch to chemical treatment in winter, but I'll need to look harder at those CT values and see if it would take forever to treat. I skimmed back through Justin Lichter's winter travel book, but he makes comments to iodine taking 4 hours for Crypto and generally seems to be lumping all chemicals in as one.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I am actually working on the filter video right now! It’s another research-intensive one 😳

@GQGeek81 2 года назад

@@GearSkeptic "How to Shit in the Woods" is worth a read on your research journey. The two ends of the body end up being linked in more ways than one. I was unaware groundwater was generally considered safe to drink until the mid-'70s. This does not appear to be an issue of "they didn't know any better back then", it appears the widespread nature of giardia and crypto is relatively recent.

@terrivelazquez4974 Год назад

Really enjoy your videos! I was wondering if colloidal silver was going to be a part of this one but I haven’t heard you mention it in a video yet. Any thoughts on this type of bacteria/virus removal? Thanks for your hard work, love the scientific approach to all of these subjects.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

Thanks! I’ve seen a little bit. If I ever get enough info, I could do another part to the series.

@terrivelazquez4974 Год назад

Awesome, thanks!

@GeekfromYorkshire Год назад

Thanks, I am thinking of moving from campsite to wildcamp so lose my source of potable water. Due to this video I went with a filter and some Chlorine Dioxine tablets to use the former all the time and the latter if I think there's some human waste upstream.

@user-up3ui5ol5w 4 месяца назад

I have one comment, but otherwise can only re-iterate what has been said here. Your presentation and analysis is the best I have seen. Thank you and keep it up. My one suggestion is addressing what the risk is of using no treatment in say, the Sierra Nevada. I recently read in the Sierra Trout Guide by Ralph Cutter (of Cutter's mosquito repellent). He relates that he uses no treatment because the risk of getting sick is wildly exaggerated. And (in his words), if you DO get sick.. guess what.. you have diarrhea. Its not that big a deal. I searched briefly for some prevalence data on Crypto, since that seems the most challenging to treat and came up short. I think you said it was ubiquitous? Then the infection rate might be quite low, I don't know. If I could add one thing, it would be the risk discussion of "what if I use no treatment at all?" Thanks again for your excellent content.

@wtr7 2 года назад

Really like your vids. There is another chemical treatment of water. Do you have any information or opinions about potassium permanganate? Thanks

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks! I’ve heard of potassium permanganate and it is my understanding that it works, but I haven’t been able to find a study that provides concentration-time values to make a direct comparison to other things like chlorine.

@user-jm7wd4br8n Год назад

The ThisOldTony of outdoorsmanship

@rvv360 4 месяца назад

Thank you for the incredibly detailed video - quick question: If I am using the chlorine dioxide tablets and Sawyer filter (to get full coverage), does the order in which I filter/purify the water matter? i.e., tablets and then Sawyer or Sawyer and then tablets? I apologize if this was answered in the video, I was unable to find it through my second pass.

@GearSkeptic 4 месяца назад

I would filter first. The more you remove ahead of time, the less the chemicals need to do!

@t1mmoe 3 года назад

in europe katadyn offers micropur forte MF 1T instead of the US version MP1. It contains chlorine and silver ions, the latter was not covered in the video, would be interesting how it compares to the others.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I found this study saying chlorine in combination with copper:silver ions worked better than either ingredient alone: arizona.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/swimming-pool-disinfection-an-evaluation-of-the-efficacy-of-coppe And this article talks about the pros and cons: www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-copper-silver-ionization.htm It sounds like the addition of the copper:silver ions allows less chlorine for the same effect. This helps limit some of those chlorine byproducts. Still affected by pH. Not so much temperature. They don’t mention cysts under effectiveness, just viruses and bacteria. I suspect, being still chlorine based, that there is still trouble with crypto. Basically, still like a chlorine solution but with less byproducts.

@fratomdev 2 года назад

First off, my head was spinning, and I had to re-review many times. Overall Excellent. I know this video is on chemical treatment, and the next in the series is on filtering, but I am curious what your take on the SteriPen is? Also, the Berkey sport will clear 4 log of virus, 5 log bacteria, but only 3 log protozoa. Any thoughts on this product? Thanks Again, I love the education.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I'm working on UV and solar disinfection, too (maybe a Part 5?). So far, the Steripen seems an effective option. It's pretty easy to just use multiple times for extra log removal in case of very bad water. There are some concerns about breakability, batteries, and cloudy water, but nothing is perfect, I guess.

@fratomdev 2 года назад

@@GearSkeptic thank you sir! Keep up the great work, and humor. I loved the iodine strip.

@RyanWood924 3 года назад

Apropos of nothing, here's an idea for a series I think you would be wonderful at: mosquitos. Like we know what works (re chemicals) but we don't know a ton about why. And there are tradeoffs with insecticides v smell-maskers v physical protection. Plus there is a TON of weird sciency claims out there about blood types and B vitamin levels and body odor and etc. What actually matters? And what real value to the claims on the label of the popular repellants have? Reviewing and distilling this for backpackers seems like a story that needs to be told. Also it would be 9 hours long and I reckon you'd need to get aquariums full of bugs in your garage.

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

LOL. I loathe mosquitoes, but they absolutely love me. I usually go with long pants and long sleeves and if it’s really bad, head net and gloves.

@DbackNF26 6 месяцев назад

Hello! I’ve watched each of the videos, but admittedly I’ve done a poor job of parsing some of the information I’m looking for - you mention at the end of the video that you’re satisfied with the filtration of the sawyer mini for most “wilderness water sources.” I’m curious - what is “wilderness” enough?? I day hike primarily on local suburban trails, but want to be prepared in the event of a surprise overnight or two. In your discussion of viruses, it sounds like the primary sources are human waste, maybe some animal waste? How do you typically make the call for when you use your chlorine dioxide tabs? Can’t thank you enough for this incredible content, as many have already said in the comments here. Unbelievable detail and presentation.

@GearSkeptic 6 месяцев назад

In a suburban area, you might have to deal with higher levels of pet waste (viral concern), as well as chemical pollutants from water that has run off streets, buildings, or fertilized and pest-controlled areas. For this, especially with the short time frame of an unexpected night or two, I would recommend one of the carbon filter options mentioned in that video. Maybe a Grayl if you don’t mind the big container, or one of the ultralight Adventure Medical filters. For wilderness, I just use a sight/smell test. If it looks clear and has no odor, the Sawyer has always kept me okay. If the water is murky, or it smells bad I will either pasteurize or use tabs depending on if I am at camp or on the move. Hope that helps!

@DbackNF26 6 месяцев назад

Awesome, thanks for the reply. Grayl is what I have been carrying (and haven’t needed it yet), but I resonated with some of your concerns expressed in part 5. Would you say that the chlorine dioxide tablets (maybe with a bandana pre-filter) are a reasonable choice in either of these scenarios? Suburban/wilderness? In that case, I may plan to carry the Grayl only when I think I’m likely to gather water (for the extra speed and convenience of purification), and the tabs for when I think it’s unlikely as a backup.

@GearSkeptic 6 месяцев назад

The tablets are great for viruses, but won’t do anything for chemicals, heavy metals (what you might find in suburban runoff). If those are a concern, only adsorption filters will help. Otherwise, tabs are my preferred backup for if I encounter particularly bad looking water of microbiological concern.

@davef5916 Год назад

Do you know what the difference between Katadyn Micropur MP1 (which you're using here) and Micropur Forte MF 1T is? I bought the former thinking it was the one from this video by mistake. I also wondered, under what scenarios or queues beyond literally seeing a carcass or faeces would you also use the micropur and not just the filter? Or do you personally always use both?

@GearSkeptic Год назад

It looks like the Forte is a European version. The main active ingredient is the same, but it also contains silver (has some antimicrobial properties). The contact times are the same, so I assume performance is similar. I do not always use tablets. Usually just a filter. I just use the sight/smell test. If I see floaters, or unusual color, or smell a stench then I will double up.

@a.p.approxima5145 2 года назад

Do you have any thoughts on UV purification and Steripens?

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I am working on that! Getting the next video in the water treatment series ready right now, on water filters. But, I’d like to do one on UV and solar disinfection, as well.

@a.p.approxima5145 2 года назад

@@GearSkeptic (*nice*)

@itsacorporatething 29 дней назад

Are there health concerns with ingesting chlorine dioxide treated water? The EPA has a limit of 0.8 ppm in drinking water. Micropur MP1 tablet label says using the product correctly will "generate a solution of 4 ppm chlorine dioxide." So if I understand this correctly using these tablets will result it water with over 4 times the EPA limit for chlorine dioxide?

@GeekfromYorkshire Год назад

So if CT is lower at higher temperature, if you're in a hurry wouldn't a brief blast from a gas stove accelerate the chemical process? 1 min on a stove could save many minutes waiting, plus if you're in a hurry as you're about to drink it, raising it from just above freezing may be a good thing? Then again, if you're bothering to fire up a stove,... might as well pasteurise it?

@GearSkeptic Год назад

Interesting idea! It might depend on what your most precious resource is, time or fuel.

@doxasticc 8 месяцев назад

One thing that conerns me about the chlorine dioxide, is the safety warnings on the package. On the package for Potable Aqua tablets, it says 'causes irreversible eye damage...do not get on eyes, skin, or clothing... wear protective eyewear, clothing, and rubber gloves... Kind of scary to me, and no one thru hiking is going to have safety goggles or rubber gloves.

@itsacorporatething 29 дней назад

I suspect this if you are exposed directly to the tablet, not after its dissolved into the 1L of water. I still wouldn't douse your eyes in water treated with them though.

@erickortiz9121 2 года назад

Thank you so much for all this valuable information. In my iPads library, I have a folder dedicated to your videos. It’s called Back Packing science. I have been trying to find information about how to purify water with hydrogen peroxide 35% food grade and can only find the benefits of using it as a natural treatment. Can you please help me find information about how to use it as a water purifier if this is a choice. I highly appreciate you sharing this video. God bless you.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I did check out hydrogen peroxide, and I saw that there are many articles about health benefits. But, you know me, I pressed for actual medical studies. I didn’t find any that support actually drinking it.

@erickortiz9121 2 года назад

@@GearSkeptic read the book, the one minute here. It’s all about this. I am undergoing a treatment with it and it is of no consequence. But I’m talking about the hydrogen peroxide 35% good grade. Not any of it. The basic. I meant to say, the one minute cure.

@nitchdesigns9662 3 месяца назад

Curious if it is fair to say for Katadyn's Chlorine Dioxide tablets, if I wanted 8log reduction in viruses as opposed to the 4log from the chart, could I just leave the reaction for twice as long, instead of 12-15 minutes, a full 30 minutes to get the full 8 log reduction? Furthermore is there a point at which the chlorine dioxide stops further reducing viral threats given more reaction time?

@GearSkeptic 3 месяца назад

It should be. CT times mean you can double the result by doubling the time. I’m sure there is a theoretical limit out there somewhere. The reactive chemicals might break down over time, but that probably doesn’t happen in any practical time frame.

@nitchdesigns9662 3 месяца назад

@@GearSkeptic Thanks for the reply! I'm also curious if there is a ceiling on the number of viruses a single tablet of chlorine dioxide can inactivate in a liter of water such that all the chlorine dioxide gets used up and cannot continue disinfecting, leaving living viruses remaining regardless of wait time.

@GearSkeptic 3 месяца назад

It’s a good question. Not that I’m aware of, but I haven’t seen a specific study.

@brandondasher261 3 года назад

I am on the PCT right now and a common thing I see a lot of hikers do is eat a lot of calories in town to compensate for not eating enough on the trail. But I am skeptical on how effective this actually is. Can you actually recover lost calories by just eating like 6k Cal in a day or is there something that makes this not work like your body only being able to process so many calories at one time. Another thing I have noticed is that girls can eat a lot more in towns than guys. Sometimes I’ll eat a big lunch and not even be hungry for dinner but most girls I am with can eat out then go for seconds 5 min later. Is there a difference in how men and women process food in a way that is relevant to long distance hiking? This doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with water treatment just a general question suitable for this channel

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I believe you can. I’m sure there is some upper limit for calories, but it must be really high. From what I’ve read, it is a well-developed survival trait to waste no calories, storing pretty much anything you don’t need. I’ve seen an article talking about some high-effort Olympic athletes consume 10,000 calories a day (swimmers). As far as gender differences, I remember seeing an article that talked about calorie needs. It said that after you account for weight and muscle mass, there is no difference.

@moinudingallotta9737 2 года назад

Have you seen the water2go purification system? They claim to remove everything from what I can tell, and have published several test results. Would be interested to hear your thoughts, as it's what I currently use.

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

Thanks for the tip! I’m researching virus filters and also ones that reduce chemicals for another video. I will check this out!

@jaredanderson7494 2 года назад

Will a sawyer mini filter iodine?

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

It wouldn’t. You’d want something with an activated carbon filter for that. Or, Potable Aqua sells their iodine tabs in a two-pack with a second bottle called “PA Plus”. These are tabs you put in after the treatment time is complete. They are supposed to inactivate the iodine and reduced taste.

@lorenzop.8249 2 года назад

What about silver

@GearSkeptic 2 года назад

I went back and checked on silver for water disinfection and found this study relating to viruses: ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5515631 Hope that helps!

@laz272727 Год назад

Surprised there wasn't anything on potassium permanganate.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

I couldn’t find any studies on it’s actual effectiveness. I guess it’s not main-stream enough.

@laz272727 Год назад

@@GearSkeptic I found some studies, but they're old. Like, "1964" old.

@Gilberto90 3 месяца назад

Potassium Permanganate is also increasingly restricted (particularly in Europe) because its oxidising properties give it the potential for ‘naughty’ uses - which is annoying because it is useful for water purification, wound disinfection and as an emergency fire starter. I’d assume that the old studies are still fairly valid though and from basic chemistry knowledge I’d also assume it’s effectiveness is somewhere in between iodine and chlorine due to the relative reactivity of oxygen (the active ingredient in potassium permanganate) compared to the two aforementioned halogens (i.e free oxygen is a better oxidiser than iodine but not as good an oxidiser as chlorine).

3 года назад

How effective would be a "purification" with a charcoal tablet into the water till fully dissolved... Shouldn't it also has an effect in desinfekting water ??? Would maybe be an non chemical way... But worms would be not impressed by that method to get rid i think...

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I’m working on research for charcoal filters. They can be effective in removing some chemicals and metals, but they don’t filter biological threats.

3 года назад

@@GearSkeptic awsome

@ferropetra9623 Год назад

I am here not for the backpacking water problem. I look for a solution for water solution during a big blackout. I am in Germany western Europe. To be worry about some kind of civil war is not realistic. Compared to US we have no crime ore wappens. Ukrainia is far away an outside the EU. So the only thing i am worrying about is a longtime blackout without good water and food. And the chance is very low. But it exist. So i look for a cheap way to make drinking water. And i need something to put on my shelf and forget. So the best solution is pool shock. And there comes the problems. I am in the EU and its law to protect its people. So i cant get the pure pool shock. I can't even find articles about this problem in german. My English is not bad. But your video is to complex for my knowledge. I need a short how to list with ingredients i can get in the EU. Does anybody here have a solution for me.

@misemuschel8549 3 года назад

Where's the Intro?

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

It’s just the part where I begin talking (after the deer). If that’s what you meant.

@misemuschel8549 3 года назад

@@GearSkeptic i expected you to run through your backyard...

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

Ha! I changed it up 😉

@jessiporch7715 3 года назад

Great video as always. Question: in the field how do you determine if a water source might have viruses?

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

I don’t know of an actual field test for viruses (they make home water test kits with a vial for bacteria, but it takes like two days to show result). From what I understand, your viral threats come (mostly) from water contaminated by feces of an animal that is sick with that virus, or if you see a dead body floating. Also, human waste (or corpses) have caused problems in the case of disasters where flooding mixes tainted water with the drinking supply. Those are the circumstances where I’d consider dropping some tabs to supplement filtration.

@annalowe8910 3 года назад

I've been taught that when using chlorine for a water disinfectant the rule is to add what you think is enough and wait an hour. smell your water if it doesn't smell like a pool repeat the process and do this till you get the signature pool smell and then and only then drink the water.

@annalowe8910 3 года назад

wrote this before the tabs part of your video. lol

@GearSkeptic 3 года назад

☺️

@ChaplainDaveSparks 4 месяца назад

Just doing a little _”off the cuff”_ figuring, I’m gonna guess that the things that are harder for your body to fight off are also going to be harder to kill outside your body …

@ChaplainDaveSparks 4 месяца назад

And if you're worried about your water being contaminated by *nuclear fallout,* iodine will be of double benefit to you (to flood your thyroid with NON-radioactive iodine ... oh, wait ... Maybe the radiation will kill off the other bugs in your water, but you'd probably want to *mechanically filter* your water, anyway. BTW, I remember a period of a couple of months in which nearly every member of my extended family suffered from *_giardia_* despite the fact that none of us ever left urban _"civilization"_ at any time near that period. All of our water intake was that delightfully *chlorinated* municipal tap water! Yes, we did dine occasionally in the same residence, but there was no OBVIOUS reason to expect giardia contamination. OTOH, _giardia_ does have certain _"benefits",_ namely *RAPID WEIGHT LOSS!*

@CrimeVid 4 месяца назад

Six quarts a day ! what is the matter with you ! even taking into account the weird US pint, 20% short to my way of thinking, that is a ridiculous amount of water, unless you’re in the desert .

@adventureswithfrodo2721 Год назад

Sorry but this is poorly done on Iodine. You state that for every decrease of 10oC. There is NO reference below what. Below boil temp below freezing or absoulte zero, LOL. I stil have a Polar Pure which has a temperature strip built in it to reference and tell how much more iodine to add. FYI if you add a vit C table to water that has be disinfected with idodie it will nuteralize the iodine and kill the iodine taste.

@GearSkeptic Год назад

What makes you think you need a reference? Every 10C is every 10C. If you know your treatment time at 20C, then you can apply the rule at 10C. If you know it at 10C, then you can apply it at 0C.