I enjoyed your video much. However, your triangulation methodology from the field to the map was in error. You took a bearing to the distant peak correctly; note that bearing was magnetic (from the compass, no declination adjustment). When you transferred the bearing from your compass to the map you should have ADDED the appropriate declination. As you stated, EAST is LEAST, plotting from a true north bearing (the map) to a magnetic bearing (the compass). However, you are navigating and plotting a course backwards, from the compass to the map. Therefore, you should ADD declination going from a magnetic bearing (the compass) to a true north reference (the topo map). If you shot a 250 deg bearing and declination was 10 deg EAST, you would have ADDED the 10 degrees (250 + 10 = 260 deg) and plotted that bearing from the peak. HOWEVER, you also could have ORIENTED the map to MAGNETIC North and plotted the 250 deg bearing without regard to the declination because both your references (the compass and the map) were oriented to MAGNETIC north.
The declination diagram is easy to understand if you use LARS which stands for Left Add Right Subtract I taught land navigation in the army for 14 years. Also there are 3 north's on a topo map Grid Mag True The map is always Grid north when plotting on the map you use LARS when converting to Magnetic for compass headings. True north is not used unless you want to go to the north pole
lol OKAY . . . so. . I'm the one who photographs, sketches and defines the surroundings and state of the body, backing off the way I came in after determining actual death, radioing in the find, securing the area for the cops, hoping a bear doesn't eat you and continuing on my way to get to Harborside Pizza Before it closes. So keep watching this vid-- you'll get it. I don't want to be late for Pizza, beer and a SEAHAWKS game!
@@CleverHiker what brand of compass do u recommend that can show me precisely magnetic and true north? and last at least a decade, if not a lifetime? What are the pros and cons of a dry compass vs liquid filled compass?
I have learned more watching just a few of your videos than years of Bear Grylls and other survival shows. Love the videos! Keep it up. I am 40 years old and I am just now starting to backpack. I plan on going on my 1st backpacking trip in a few months. (I am a veteran car camper)
I see your compass had a bubble, many other guides suggest getting a new compass in this situation although it doesn't appear to affect the needle too much.
Yeah, it's probably time for me to get a new compass. You're right though, I've been using it without any problems for a while like that. Still, it's better not to risk it. Good comment and thanks!
Yup, very good point. This video was taken with a more basic compass that did not have declination calibration, but you're absolutely right, a quality compass with declination adjustments will make the process much easier.
Such a great video! At around 10 mins when explaining triangulation don't forget that after you take your bearing you have to adjust for declination before you draw your line on the map. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still learning. For example, if the declination for your area is 10 degrees west and the prominent feature you shot a bearing to is 100 degrees, you need to subtract 10 degrees making the bearing 90 degrees on the map. Just like you said; reverse the order.
Phillip, what you describe is correct if you have a lame compass. This is another great reason to buy a compass that has adjustable declination. Doing so, and setting it correctly, measures all your bearings to true north, and you never have to add or subtract your declination. This type of backcountry arithmetic can be very confusing, especially if you don't use your compass very often.
I have a Suunto global compass with adjustable declination. However, I really like to use my K&R prismatic compass. You wouldn't call that compass lame would you? In the video they weren't using an adjustable compass so it seemed worth mentioning to adjust for declination.
Fair enough, lame was not a good choice of words. However, in general less expensive compasses do not have adjustable declination, and more expensive ones do. You can get the Suunto M3 for about 30 bucks on Amazon, which is a great choice for most backcountry users. (And Philip, I get a kick out of some of your other comments when you say you are a beginner or learning this stuff, you sound like pretty much an expert to me. Perhaps your comments are older, because if so, you are very fast learner. =^) I do appreciate your informed and thoughtful comments on navigation videos, thanks for helping people learn what is often a confusing topic.
Great Video Dave!! Finally, a backpacking video that doesn't include the host talking for the first 5 minutes about what they are going to talk about in the video.
May I ask you why we havent accounted for the Magnetic Declination locating ourselves performing triangulation?? We did that getting bearing from point A to point B but then... did not while fixing our position getting bearings from the landmarks. Why?
Because of the coming micronova, declination is moving much farther, and much faster and so declination information is likely incorrect but there is still a way to recalibrate magnetic declination using the shadow of sticks recording the path of the sun---rotation of the earth has not yet changed. First stick will show East. Mark it with a sharp stick pushed in. After a few minutes you can mark sun shadow travel where the shadow has moved - Push another stick in to mark West. Lay a straight stick from the E mark to the W mark. Geographic north or True North is 90 degrees from the E-W line. With your compass pointing toward True North, note how far off your compass is now. That is your true up-to-date declination. My up-to-date declination is 30 degrees, 15 degrees off from the official declination for my area. More on micronova in my 2nd book, Surviving the Micronova: This Train Is on the Tracks will be available in September.
The best technique is the spit-spot hand land nav method: 1. Drink a cool refreshing gulp of your rapidly diminishing water 2. Spit in the open palm of your left hand 3. Slap the palm of your right hand onto the palm of your left. This should be done forcefully so you look like Jeremiah Johnson 4. DO NOT glance away for even a millisecond 5. Wherever the largest bead of spit flew, trek in that direction 6. Move quickly and just let your adrenaline do the thinking for you 7. If your pack becomes too heavy, remove it & discard* *remember water weighs 8.2 pounds per gallon so throw all of it away too 8. If you’re still feeling fearful, remove your shoes and socks. Thrown them off-trail in 2 directions 9. Light a huge fire to be seen more easily. If it gets too big, outrun it 10. Once night falls, if you see any glowing eyes in the bush charge directly at them screaming “cowabunga” ....or just learn what this vid teaches😉❤️
Great video I need to watch this a million times!!! I have found for me the best way to use a paper map with GPS is to use UTM. So much easier than degrees minutes seconds etc. set GPS to UTM in units. Use the UTM tick marks on side of topos to make a UTM grid. It’s so easy to pinpoint your location. (This is all online for more detailed instructions). I’m still a believer in paper maps and compass. GPS is not 100 reliable in all conditions
Hi Dave, nice video. Can you explain why you change the declination after you take your bearing from the map opposed to changing the declination on the compass prior to starting the hike. I'm a beginner but was told since the declination is known from the map... why not change it in advance? Thanks
Very informative and easy to listen to. I was wondering about the triangulation. I used to fly small planes (years ago) and we triangulated off VOR beacons. Wasn't sure how to do it in terrain. Thanks.
oh not, just remembered u guys used feet over in the states... ahhhh miles : inch ratios, feet, Fahrenheit. I miss the metric system :( but anyways, great video!
I didn't get any of it :``-( I'm just trying to learn how to stay on trail. but this is just too much info all together. Maybe I need to start by something more simple.
Out of curiosity. When triangulating your position with the compass you never said to adjust for the declination? Is this not done or do we do a reverse adjustment the exact same way we would if we were just plotting a course? Thank you so much, I have watched a TON of your videos. They are all super helpful.
Ian Davidson Thanks Ian! Yup, for maximum accuracy you'll want to correct for declination whenever you're you're taking measurements from a physical location and applying them to a map, or vice versa. Hope that helps!
Too often, I read comments that (1.) a compass bubble won't affect its accuracy and (2.) a compass bubble usually goes away when you return to sea level and room temperature. First, it is not the accuracy of the compass that is affected; it is its function. The bubble will push and pull the needle away from magnetic north. Saying the accuracy is not affected is like saying the accuracy of your car's steering is not affected by an inflated airbag. This is true but try steering your car with an inflated airbag between you and your steering wheel. When I am descending a snowcovered 14,000 ft mountain peak with 50 mph gusts buffeting me to and fro, I don't want to play a delicate Labyrinth Game while wearing mitts. I just want to get a bearing. But I am forced to gimbal the compass by hand to keep the bubble away from the needle long enough to get an accurate bearing. If I hold the compass too far out of level, then the needle touches the top or bottom of the compass case and that causes drag. This should be a simple task, but it turns into a challenging task with dubious results. My home is over 7,000 ft above sea level. Returning the compass to sea level in the hope of dissolving the bubble into solution is never going to happen. Even if I did this, once I go back up a mountain, the bubble would return. My compasses spend their working life above 8,000 ft and below 40 degrees. I own several compasses. Every one of them has a bubble that seriously compromises its functionality. I would gladly pay a premium for a compass that solves this problem. If the bubble is inevitable, then the compass should be designed so that the bubble won't interfere with the movement of the needle. Perhaps a domelike structure above the fulcrum could capture the bubble above the needle? Or could the compass be designed so that the user could irrigate the compass with fresh fluid and thereby flush the old fluid along with the bubble out of the compass? Or are there better designs, materials, or manufacturing processes that would prevent the formation of the bubble in the first place? The technology of climbing and backpacking gear has progressed at a miraculous pace in my lifetime (capitalism is great!). But the compass design is still fundamentally flawed. It is probably the only piece of gear that frustrates me to no end.
You need the US GI type. It's rugged, uses induction dampening instead of liquid, has clicks every three degrees so gloved hands can set bearings in cold dark. The compass locks up when closed so the pivot isn't beaten up. It doesn't have adjustable declination, you don't need it once you use it one day. Those slogans are hard and trip people when going from map to compass and vice versa. Get the tritium. It's half life is twelve years and still fine at twenty. Lume's half life is twelve minutes and you're dependent on having a flashlight.
Dave, thank you for this very useful and easy explanation. Do you have any preferred hiking GPS that you would recommend for long lasting hikes (20 days)?
Adrian M Thanks Adrian! To be honest, I'm mostly a map and compass hiker these days. I've been meaning to get into GPS units more, but I rarely find that they do me much good. I really get a lot of enjoyment from the old school way. Still, I should probably get with the times on that. Thanks again!
Thanks much Dave, we (3 friends) have always been hiking old school too (our school actually, we started 28 years ago, -yes twenty eight-). But thought, if giving an opportunity to technology was worth a try.... may be better to invest on better dressing equipment than geek stuff. I am very interested in your comments about boots vs running shoes. Cheers from Argentina.
Adrian M For my views on boots vs shoes, have a look at this post I put up today. Enjoy! - www.cleverhiker.com/blog/reader-response-new-shoes-still-blisters-whats-the-deal
Dave Collins Excellent one more time Dave! thanks again. I did post one question/comment below your last post, refers to the footwear equipment for rocky ground, and very very moist soil.
