Bad Filmmaking vs Good Filmmaking 

the fact that the camera is stationary also makes me panic. Like there’s nothing I can do

The first one was so good at delivering that panic and confusion that I didn’t even realize the problem was that the father had left the family behind until his daughter asked where he was. I was just rooting for everyone to get away as fast as possible

I expect the assumption is American audiences will get bored or uncomfortable with long static takes and underplayed performances but I reckon they underestimate people and its a self fulfilling prophecy

the single shot also allows us as viewers to consider what has changed before and after the incident. Same position, all the characters totally different. Lives completely changed. I love the way it emerges through the dust of the snow.

As one comment pointed out in the video of Downhill's avalanche scene, one huge thing that makes the remake's scene weaker was that the dad was alone on his side of the table. Him running off can be excused with him thinking his family would follow him. However, in the original, not only was his son right beside him on the table, everyone also saw him push his son to the side for him to escape.

One thing I much prefer about the original version is the conversation leading up to the impact. The rest of the family is expressing their fear to Tomas, but he continuously shuts them down, saying that "it's fine". The moment *he* finally believes there is an actual danger, his true colours show and he leaves them all behind, even pushing aside his son to get to safety. It drives home the disconnect much more and shows that he was not considering his family's safety, only his own.

The avalanche scene in Force Majeure is also better because of the location of the camera. The camera is around the level of the tables and placed in a way that the audience could very well be another vacationer at a table watching the avalanche along side the family. It allows us to see the bigger picture, all the actions taking place and feeling the fear, stuck frozen as we watch it hurdle down, experiencing the stress the characters probably feel.

The Östlund one made me FEEL the extreme awkwardness now that the family knows what the dads priorities are and it serves like a perfect setup to the rest of the plot about their relationship. The Will Ferrel one made the scene into a simple "gag" with his comedy acting and the movie after that could be about whatever really.

Notice how the father in the original took a while before coming back for his family, it shows that he was hesitant because of how he reacted to the incident. In the remake, the father's back to it like nothing happened, no sense of guilt or remorse present.

The slow fade back to colour (back to normality) helps make the scene as well. As the panic subsides more colour saturates the shot. Great stuff!

This is excellent analysis. On top of the shakey cam nonsense, most modern Hollywood films seem obsessed with getting as many tight shots of the lead actors' faces as possible.

Another thing thats very american productions with their 30 cuts in a 100 seconds is that you need to light and shoot for 10 angles of the same scene wich elevates costs unneceseraly

The original static long shot feels more harrowing. Watching the family scream in fear and disappear under the snow is much more effective. I like your conclusion: "often simple filmmaking is perfect filmmaking." ❤

The detail of Will's character grabbing his phone before he runs off got me. 🤣

I like the Original because the steadyness of the trypod resembles the feeling of wanting to back up, but being unable to, as you are drawn in by the spectacle. It physically makes me fell stuck

The worst effect in filmmaking is the shaky camera effect. Brain just shuts off and doesn't try to understand what's going on in the scene.

this scene reminds me of how little some couples know about each other. Sometimes I talk to couples and they are learning so much about each other with me.

I find interesting that the dad in the first movie grabbed his son at first like he wanted to protect him but as soon as he realized that the avalanche was really really close he just abandoned the whole family like the instict of survival or fear won over the protective parent mode idk

I saw the original movie at release but I had no idea about the remake. But this two scenes together are the textbook example of not understanding the movie you are remaking. I am tremendously scared about what Hollywood might do with the remake of Another Round.

You're so very right on how a wide shot adds a sense of realism at the start of this video I legit thought this was real. I thought this was a bts shot of what happens when a studio rushes and stinges out on the budget and thought that this video was gonna be about the "good and bad ethics" of filmmaking 💀

i personally love long static shots. it gives a documentary feel, like you really are with the characters and understand their feelings and emotions. i am not interested in eye candy of millions of shots you can come up with. i mean, less is more, people!

They have all those quick cuts so they can have the celebrity faces (that they paid lots of money for) on screen as much as possible for the marketing material. I never saw the American film, but I did see the trailer and this scene was in it. They wanted Will Ferrel and Julia Louis-Dreyfuss’ faces on screen for the trailer alone. What do they care if the movie’s good? They wanted butts in the seats and they think that’s the way to do it. The quick cuts are due to celebrity culture and profit seeking. If you want to change this, you have to end the power of the big studios. Because bad filmmaking from an artist is at least entertaining to watch. Bad filmmaking due to studio big wig intervention is just boring.

beautifully told. "Less is more." Sad how social media is moving attention spans in the wrong direction.

Interestingly, although people have noted the positioning of the family at the table in Downhill justifies the father a little bit more (since he was alone and doesn't push his kid aside), it feels like there's actually more room for sympathy in the original due to the way it's structured. The way Downhill presents it makes it obvious that the film thinks you should believe he's a coward. The performances and dialogue are pretty explicitly telling you that. In the original, the scene's presented without judgement from a distance, and while you can read subtleties and body language, no one's reaction really tips the movie's hand as to what it wants you to think. The film gives more latitude for the audience to make their own judgements. There's other elements to break down in that, like what seems to be a genre shift to comedy in Downhill, which intentionally plays the scene more for laughs (and you could even argue that's a wise decision based on genre and audience), but it's simply interesting to see what you lose there.

By having a Seinfeld alum in the remake, it's hard not to think of the episode where George reacts in a similar way during a panicked fire alarm at a party, pushing the elderly out of the way to escape. I wonder if this influenced the casting of JLD.

Another aspect in these scenes is the placement of characters. While it's also due to the table, the fact that the two kids are sitting next to the mom an none next to the dad in the US version already creates a discommect between the family and makes it less believable. On the other hand in the original version the dad in a panic tries to first grab his son , who is right next to him, but then decides against it and runs grabbing a stranger. It deepens the feeling of panic and also makes the fact, that he left them, harsher, abondoning a family member right next to him, rather than the three separated by a whole table.

I recommend doing some eqing on your voice , - take away like 8 dB around 8k Hz - take away around 7 dB around 3k Hz - with very narrow filters take away 6 dB from 120 and 240 Hz (best to check this is make a narrow filter, crank it up and listen when the signal really gets loud, that's the resonance you wanna eliminate)

The American series "Barry" also uses a lot of wide angle shots from a still camera. You get a sense of realism because, if you were there, you would not be swapping positions every two seconds. Great comparison, Marcus.

Curiously, the effects work is less convincing in the remake; from the compositing of the avalanche with the foreground action, to the dusting of "snow" artfully applied to the costumes in its aftermath. The one thing I think the second version does add that I liked is the kids looking at the camera/Dad's POV when he rejoins them, it actually does what "close-ups" do best; conveys emotional cues without relying on dialogue.

that reminded something from my childhood (1999), there was an earthquake in our city istanbul, and in my neighbourhood one of my friends father was ran to the street all alone with his boxer, top naked, his family still upstairs his children and wife, he left them and ran out

The remake version is like a bad fight scene, so many cuts its disorienting, chaotic, and confusing. You might think these are appropriate themes to want to insert into this scene but it actually detracts from the real life chaos and confusion. We need a static reference so that we can fully understand what is happening in the chaos. It makes the fathers reaction seem much more natural and appropriate in the second scene, not as much build up, everyone is freaking out almost immediately, the position of the table and characters sat at it make for a more believable reaction from the father and that detracts from the whole point of the movie. I havent seen Downhill but I cant imagine him thinking he did anything wrong in the following conversations whereas in Force Majeur the fathers actions are much more obviously cowardly and so in the disscusions following, you arent saying to yourself "he did nothing wrong!!"

I watched this at 4am on film4 a couple years ago, felt like a very profound exploration of modern masculinity. The real value of this film is its confidence, taking such a simple event and watching how it simmers slowly much as thing do in our own lives. Everything in the film just has space to breathe and it was so refreshing to watch.

Also the fact that in the remake one kid asks for his mom once versus in the original the kids are calling for their dad over and over with increasing panic.

this video was great! i feel like this analysis goes hand in hand with every frame of painting’s memories of murder video. it’s less stress on the actors to have less cuts and less closeups as they’re able to use their talent with little interruption.

"Force Majeure" is a masterpiece. "Downhill" is a merican.

Man oh man, I've seen this comparison between the two movies used as an example before, but your video is one of the better video essays on that comparison out there. I haven't watched Downhill, but I expect that what follows in the movie lacks the tension and suspense of the original too.

First scene is just like 2006 movie The Host where instead of grabbing his own child, he grabs another child when monster was chasing.

Yo!! I remember when the trailer for downfall came out and was like this is great concept but something felt off about this. Can’t wait to see Force Majeure. Thank you!

This is fascinating! I always wonder how awards are decided for ‘best director’ etc, and this explains an aspect very well. I definitely felt the anxiety way more with the original. And it goes to white so long, I’m anxiously waiting to see if everyone is ok. For the remakes part, u cant expect subtle acting from will ferrell lol.

Having one shot would have brought thr budget down considerably as well. One locked-off camera against a greenscreen set is easy for VFX artists to work with, and it means you only need extras on set for one day.

It's also a display of the difference in culture, with one being more subtle and nuanced and the other more on the nose and simple. Thanks for the upload.

Thanks for the video. You articulated my feelings from having watched 1 and 1/2 of these movies (I didn't finish the remake).

"it feels more like a movie, and not a film" 😂😂 dead serious delivery too

Son: Where is Papa?!? Mother/Wife: I think Papa is already in the bus.😂

What an important comparison! The long unbroken wide avalanche shot in "Force Majeure" does indeed do something quite different from the "Downhill" avalanche scene. The "Force Majeure" shot mimics the reality videos we see online of tsunamis, natural disasters, ships facing huge ocean waves etc. There is a sense of slowed-down time and agonising suspense. And it puts us viewers in the position of witnesses; just as if we were there, sitting at a nearby table, only with a video camera. In that wide shot so full of people, we have to try and work out what to look at, what is important, and what isn't. And like all witnesses, we have only a partial view of the subject family, e.g. we hardly see the father's face at all, he has his back to us. Then, our view is quickly obscured by snow. We have to make up our own minds about what the family did, based on an imperfect and distanced view of the event. It forces us both to concentrate, and to admit honestly, and with perhaps some frustration, that maybe we dont 100% remember exactly who did what, because we couldn't see it that well. That imperfect view is important later, when we begin to wonder if one or both of the couple is lying, or exaggerating their responses. In "Downhill", while the scene is still arresting and suspenseful in its own way, there is no doubt regarding the main characters' feelings and theri acgtions - because we see solid closeups of the family's faces. The camera puts us in the centre of the dining table, inches away from each one. So, what is lost in the "Downhill" version is ambiguity. That ambiguity is used in Force Majeure to support the themes of distorted memory and restructuring of the past. And it adds a fascinating layer to the challenge issued to the audience' to respond to and interpret the couple's experience .

Good video dude ~ I'd be down for a more in depth breakdown of Force Majeure, it seems really interesting but also I know it's way too tense for me to actually sit through, but I love seeing artistic breakdowns and thoughtful video essays on this kind of thing! I just wish I knew more about the movie now, especially how it wraps up and what sort of resolution they find after such an interesting premise beginning. It's really cool to see the comparison to Downhill as well, I think you're spot on about the effectiveness of the scene being so much stronger in the original.

It is WILD the difference in tone and feeling the two scenes have

as a big fan of Triangle of Sadness, i clearly need to check out his other work. i did a deep dive into Lanthimos a few months ago and i think Ostlund is next on my list

Personally, I am surprised the people didn't react sooner to the avalanche. Even the kid screaming "Poppa!" was reacting sooner than the rest of the crowd. Yet, they waited until the last second before they started to run. Regarding the father running off by himself, I would not excuse that because you see him completely ignore his son as he starts to move away from the oncoming avalanche. It's even worse in the American version. A massive wave of snow is literally encroaching the seating area before anyone gets up to run. Editing wise, the original was a thousand times better. Presenting a much more intense experience to the audience.

You have perfectly described my taste in film. These points are what I use to form opinions over the films I watch

Its a sad moment but the way Will runs away is very funny

Ruben Östlund is a genius! If you haven't seen The Square, you should add that to your list. The way he manages to tell stories about simple decisions and the results they may have is so good. And often times very relatable.

With zone of interest this year, that movie really showed the power of slow static shots, hopefully it gets a oscar nod with a award. Loved the video, will catch out the movie.

We appreciate how well you've articulated your insights. You'll always have our support.

Your channel is amazing, I've just stumbled upon a few of your videos and subscribed - thanks for showing the original film, it's on my list now!

I am afraid, it is not in US cinema alone (albeit possibly the driving factor). Recently saw a comparison about Murder on the Orient Express 1974 and 2017. One with expert blocking, trust in slowly playing out but hefty scenes etc., the other with unmotivated cuts, camera positions that are pandering towards the lowest common denominator in audience expectations. Side note: I am looking forward to the International Berlin Film Festival at the moment. My palate cleanser each year ;-)

the sheer helplessness i felt with the first scene brought me into the the setting. and then the power the acting had not in terms of forced expressions but body language, the dialogue delivery- there wasn't a need to be in their faces to realise what just happened. while everyone's taking a sigh of relief around and moving about we witness them sit stiff frozen in part shock and part disappointment. such an amazing set up for the rest of the film. and I absolutely agree Downhill just felt like an snl bit?? when were jumping around so much we couldn't properly witness dreyfus' reaction to the situation as compared to will's

I love how the camera is stantionary and that it is a long uncut shot, makes the feeling of sheer panic much stronger.

this is why I stopped watching a lot of Netflix shows. once I started paying attention to cuts and editing I just couldn't handle how frantic it all was, as though the creators were constantly terrified we'd get bored if we had to look at the same thing for a second too long. also after reading everyone's insightful comments on Force Majeure, I'd like to add that the static camera, to me, resembles a nightmare or sleep paralysis incident where you can't move and are just forced to watch something frightening happening in front of you. ramps up the tension for sure.

this was truly a fire ass explanation... we need more films

I have seen the avalanche scene SO many times, but I never knew which movie it was from. I will definitely watch it now. Also, Triangle of Sadness is quite good.

I hadn't thought about this, and now that I have, it applies to good writing too. Not literally in terms of having a stationary view point, but more breaks in the narrative, or switches of viewpoint, tend to make for more choppy and less readable writing.

Excellent analysis. Subscribed and looking forward to more from your channel.

I like Force Majeure a lot. I didn't know they made an American version! Agreed, simple filmmaking = perfect

I think the 2nd one tried to have reaction-shots implanted into the scene, but with that the threat-level, the cause for panic is lost. At the end of the scene I even had toruble knowing what is happening. It wast a blended mess. And for the acting the first feels drama, while the second some cheap comedy.

I can’t help but mention how excellent the acting is in the original version, especially the child actors. The little boy screaming in terror for his father genuinely had me shaken.

From the stationary shot you can see that the family wore bright colors as opposed to the background actors wearing neutral colors to put a focus on the main characters

Watched Force Majeure years ago, really liked it. Not only for that scene, which feels realistic and surreal at the same time. Much like something very unexpected and random happening in real life. But also for the reaction afterwards and how the event disrupts the trust within this family and how they are not prepared to deal with it. Everything is so subtle and toned down. When I read that Hollywood will remake it with Will Ferrell I wondered if they have even seen the film.

Excellent video. I've never heard of Force Majeure, can't wait to check it out. I have to agree that the still wide shot is far more effective. Comparatively, the remade scene didn't seem anywhere near as dangerous, and I found its editing a bit disorienting.

Great short vid that brought attention to this film i didn't know existed

I'm going to watch Force Majeur this weekend now. Thanks for the tip! ❤ You raise a good point in general though: Hollywood movies often use a lot of trickery rather than rely on genuinely good acting to create an impression. I wonder what your thoughts are on Magnolia?

I completely agree with your take, and it was great to hear an explanation of why Downhill didn't work. I was never convinced a remake was necessary anyway. It seemed almost an insult to a flawless film. I'd love to see a video about the endings, too. The ending of Force Majeure was beautiful and, like the rest of the film, subtle. The ending of Downhill felt bleak, and Billie seemed needlessly bitter. I couldn't help feeling that the creators of Downhill had completely misunderstood Force Majeure.

Force Majeure: We do not need to move the camera because the plot is focused on the family. Downhill: Let's shoot this like a disaster movie. Get the reactions of the bystanders, and the server with beer falling, and the man trying to make video with his phone.......etc etc

This video made me check out the rest of your channel and HOW do you not have more subscribers?! This is amazing content! Greetings from Mexico :)

FYI the reason the camera cuts to reactions to the actors in the second clip is because the studio executives give notes, and they almost always give that note for job justification; they are also paying those actors a lot of money and want to get their "money's worth".

I guess it was Bourne that changed American cinema. Quick cuts is a means to keep audiences in edge and obviously downhill wanted to do that. Whereas the focus of the European one was not the family but the chaos in the shape of an avalanche. Almost like a poetry.

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George pushes children and old people out of the way when he thinks there is a fire. Then the American version HAS Julia and Will, which lends itself to a comical interpretation anyway, undermining the entire point of the scene.

Omg, I feel like a fool. I’ve only seen the American remake, not Force Majeure 2014. Thank you for showing me this!

I love the way you break down the difference between films. I would not have thought much about it. 31 cuts in 100 seconds! It's as if they were trying to make it look like an action movie, which is not the purpose of the story. Maybe they think Americans could not have watched it if it didn't feel "exciting". I wish they'd done a better job portraying the most important scene in the entire movie. Thanks again for the critique. Really fascinating for me.

During the first scene, you were sitting there, thinking "....well this feels ...awkward," and didn't need to see the actors' emotions because you were probably experiencing the same emotions in real time. It really made you want to squirm in your seat. But in the second scene, you didn't feel anything because the actors were there, doing it for you.

I think neither is perfectly successful. Both approaches have their pros and cons. I honestly think there’s a middleground that would work best

You just introduced me to a film I didn't know existed. Thank you. This feels like a horror film. EVERY man's worst nightmare. Failing to protect my family at the moment where it counts, and NEVER being able to live it down, taking it to my grave and beyond and having this story be my legacy that gets passed down through future generations. "Your great great great grandfather....was a great...coward". And THAT'S a legitimate fear. I can't even imagine how I could even begin to feel reconcile with leaving my family behind. It would eat me up inside. But it's those moments that are unexpected that, as men, we're supposed and meant to shield our family from harm. Was there much he could do? No. If it was going to take their life, they'd all be gone. But it's the fact the mother stayed behind with the children while the man ran away. Frankly, based on this premise alone. Though the family survived, I think it would have been a MUCH more powerful story had they NOT survived and he had to deal with the grief of losing his family, survivors guilt, and putting his life before his families - choosing not to stay behind to give them comfort in death. Then I'd imagine he'd deny ever running away, and slowly people will question him, mention having seen him run FROM his family, being comfronted by his demons, etc. I think, if the remake was going to do it this way, that would have been a creative alternate reality and perspective to take which would have made the remake a classic, too, taking that alternate perspective and running with it.

As others have commented - like @derbyedits4959 and @audreyquinn73 - the tension of the long, wide-angle shot in the original has matchless grip and poise. For me, it is the paralysis of nightmare: the camera, like the audience - is unable to move, turn away, flee. While the camera position is a human's POV that places us there, there's no escape in view - the framing cuts us off from any physical exit/shelter (unlike the interspersed shots of doors/walkway/building we see behind the actors in the Downhill sequence); even the furniture is arranged to pin us in. in Force Majeure, we are rooted, and trapped as the approaching threat's uncertainty of scale does not relent, but grows, leaving us helpless in terror until it inevitably strikes. Absolute magic.

Actually it's the staging of the scenes, rather than the shots, that strike me. In the French (Swedish?) version, *everyone* runs. The dad has to run *over* his own kid to get away. In the American version, half the people on the deck stay put, making it feel less urgent. And the mother's failure to move (had it been a worse accident) seems as bad as the father's. And the kids are on the other side of the table. I've no idea why any of those changes would be made, unless they were trying to dial down the father's mistake.

Original scene was terrifying and the American one was more like an action comedy

Really interesting video. Thanks for the explaination of the two methods.

Thanks - I did not know the OG movies including Triangle of Sadness … I will watch them immediately! ☺️

The length of scenes was not a problem for me. But no likeable characters was. I think I made it halfway through before I gave up on it.

If you watch the original version of Insomnia (the Scandinavian Version) it is much more powerful, as it casts the character as a dislikable character even more so. Whenever I learn of an American remake, I always track down the original, knowing it will probably hold up better.

Great critique video Marcus. Looking forward to your next video.

youtube rec'd this to me, GREAT vid, mate! Thank you!

you need a better micriphone, this pringles can ain't doing it.

Two different film styles and two different genres. First one is a misanthropic, slow burning drama film. Second is a screwball comedy that use action and melodrama. Can't compare the two in that simple, crude technical manner. Also isolating each scene without considering the whole film. The first scene actually looks sillier and more unrealistic because the light avalanche did not disturb anything on the restaurant tables. Even the wine glasses are still upright! And in a very silly manner people continued drinking the remaining liquid in those glasses as if nothing had happened. This is no 'realism' or 'masterpiece'. This is artistic ignorance and immaturity. Twisting the real life just to suit whatever nihilistic and pessimistic viewpoint the filmmaker have about life. MAYBE the light comedy of Will Ferrell, though done in a popular format, offers a relatively more sensible and considerate approach towards life. Rather than looking at the world from your own middle-class, narrow, misanthropic view point.

The juxtaposition between the original and remake was so jarring that it actually made me laugh, like a comic relief after the tangible horror of the first. Also didn't realise you were black. Subscribed.

i watched all major Ruben Östlund film, TOS, the square, force majeure and play, each film had there own vibe, he reminds me of roy anderson with more shots and wit, light mood like wes anderson but with serious social commentary.

great, informative and entertaining take, and thanks for introducing me to this movie 🙏

I watched Force Majeure late at night one day and it was great at deliviring an unsettling feeling. I wasn't even sure if it was supposed to funny. I was always on the edge. Very good suspense.

I had seen clips of the original online and did not realize it was a movie. For one, the acting of the son in the scene was phenomenal! He gives a real and terrified performance and was actually what sold me on it as having been captured by someone’s camera. Hollywood ruins everything

This reminds me of the “rule” in film and books to show, and not tell. Granted, neither scene has a character saying, “why did you abandon us”, which is good. But the Hollywood version does have gratuitous close-ups and cuts to people’s faces. It’s basically Hollywood telling us how everyone is feeling, instead of allowing us to figure it out ourselves and to “feel” the movie based on the camerawork and the special effects, the colouring, etc. We can feel the tension in the first scene even though we can barely see the family’s faces. I’m such a sucker for a long camera shot. Not to sound old but sometimes I go to the cinema now and feel like I’ll have a seizure from all the cuts 😭 This was a really interesting watch, thank you!!

Even now i still seeing force majoure avalanche scene posted out of context and people bite it. Just shows how good the director capture that panic in a natural way