Chemist here: the reason you get a better crust using malt syrup instead of honey is that you are using a reducing sugar which acts as a mild base doing some of the work you did not employ the Baking soda to do. Additionally reducing sugars behave differently in the maillard reactions generally giving better color at lower temperatures
I can’t believe how long it took me to figure out that the three pictures Ragusea shows at the end of each video is a “vinegar leg on the right” reference.
2:13 The opposite of a lubricant is a "frictionizer" But it's a very esoteric term, it's not used very much since with many things you want to try and reduce friction. But, frictionizers are used in paper and textile manufacturing, and on floor coatings to reduce slippage. I'm also assuming such substances are used in manufacturing tyres and shoe soles etc. but are called a different name.
I honestly love how we can watch Adam go down a research trail with his videos. The last 3 videos have been about malted barley and before that, it was all about grain. He has huge Alton Brown vibes, I would watch Good Eats as a kid, learning about food makes it so much more fun to cook.
@@somefreshbread Ye abrasive would be something to rough up a surface, not to make the surface sticky although a large roughed up surface will have a higher coefficient of friction its not really the opposite of lubrication
Hi, bagel baker here! Where I work we use honey because it gives a shiny brown look when fully baked and it also allows your toppings to stick better. Another thing, just a couple of tips, I'm was trained to do Montréal style bagels, so here's my advice: 1. When you roll, make sure the "rope" of dough you make is the same thickness all throughout. DO NOT USE YOUR FINGERS, ONLY PALMS. Wrap them around your hand with the closing ends in your palm and roll TWO TIMES. Otherwise you'll end up in the situation you were in where one side is too thick and the other is too thin. It's also why one of yours broke after taking it out of the water. 2. When you boil them, they should have the texture of a boiled perogie. Make sure to flip them once the top is brown. 3. You don't have to have to let them puff up. You can start rolling them as soon as they're done mixing. It's easier if the dough is hard. If you have any questions for me or anyone else in the comments, feel free to ask.
It reminds me of how Koreans also use ssal-jocheong for sweetener as it gives a shiny brown look, and reminds me of invert sugar as well which you can make quite a deep color, also used to give a brown appearance. How do you think a honey/malt bagel recipe could be adapted for a thicker syrup like maltose? (If you search it the images give you a good idea of its viscosity)
@@foofu6685 Literally adam when he was doing the research for this recipe. He's openly talked about how he often searches forums and other websites catered specifically to professionals to get some tips from them.
I would I roll it 1 1/4 times. Just let the ends overlap. Not the whole rope around your hand twice. That doesn’t make sense and it’s too much Letting the ends overlap about an inch is perfect - I made this recipe today :-) You’re absolutely right. Having a thin end like that isn’t good for even cooking and it’ll break fishing it out of the water. I have a Montreal style bagel recipe I will try next time :-) As a trained baker in that style, if you have a recipe and any tips , I’d appreciate it :-) Thanks 😊
Speaking of them, you should consider looking at doing a pretzel recipe! Most home recipes use baking soda as you said, but traditional German pretzels are boiled in a LYE solution for even higher pH. They are unreal.
A lye solution and a baking soda solution could both end up with the same ph, depending on how much each one was diluted. (I mean could have a dilute lye bath that was the same PH as a very saturated baking soda bath)
@@rdizzy1 not exactly, baking soda HCO3^- can function as both a weak base and a weak acid. If the pH low (=acidic) it likes to take up H^+ ions (either free in solution, or rip them from water H2O which leaves an OH^- ion in solution) to become H2CO3 (which converts into water and CO2) and thereby make things less acidic/more basic/alkaline. But in high pH (=basic/alkaline) solutions, it likes to donate H^+ ions (which either stay free in solution or combine with OH^- groups to form water, or be used by some other molecule that likes to take them up) to become CO3^(2-) making the solution more acidic/less basic/alkaline. In the middle, it happens both at the same time, which can act as as a buffer at pH of around 8-9 where these reactions are in equilibrium, and if added enough, even adding a more basic/alkaline or more acidic component can get cancelled out by the excess baking powder. As such, you won't be able to get a pH higher than that from baking soda. Lye on the other hand is a strong base, and although weak solutions of it can also reach that pH of 8-9 (so in that sense, you're correct that they could end up with the same pH), you can also use it to create a more basic/alkaline solution (which baking soda never can, so in that sense your comment is wrong/incomplete). The concentrations of lye used for pretzels are often much more basic/alkaline than can be achieved with baking soda. That said, using lye requires much more safety precautions, and may be difficult to get in the first place, and using baking soda can still give a decent effect if you wish to make your own pretzels without needing all the safety precautions that come with using lye.
@@nienke7713I read in a couple of articles that if you put the baking soda on a baking tray and BAKE it (I forget time and temp), it will make the baking soda more like lye than when not baking it would. I can see why bagel places want to avoid using lye, probably for safety reasons. I wonder about the pretzel places.
@@gerriebell2128 yes, you can turn baking soda into washing soda by baking it. It will take the pH up to around 10-11 (whereas baking soda won't get you higher than 8-9), but it's nothing compared to the pH of around 13-14 that a 3%-4% lye solution used in pretzel making can reach. Bagels don't typically use an alkaline solution at all, that's really a pretzel thing (and is what gives you that typical brown pretzel crust).
I work at a Wholefoods and we have been getting asked a bunch of times if we have that malt syrup now (my particular store doesn't but I might add it to our shelves if we keep getting asked). Adam your power is growing wield it responsibly!
The healthfood crack takes me back to my childhood, getting fed a spoonful of Extract Of Malt every morning along with a capsule of Cod Liver Oil. Which was fine, until the family lunatic who thought this was a good idea found a brand that mixed the Cod Liver Oil into the Malt, thoroughly ruining both.
Oh gahhh, that reminds me of the time I opened a can of sardines, first time ever, and thought I'd make a sandwich. It was disgusting, so I put peanut butter on it to disguise it. Ruined peanut butter for months. Never have been able to eat another canned sardine, though fresh grilled is a treat.
I have a proposal for you: We typically see "Cake flour" (7-9% gluten), "All-purpose flour" (8-11% gluten) and "Bread flour" / "Strong flour" (12-14% gluten). But! Now that I've bought a five pound bag of vital wheat gluten, I can just buy AP flour and add a little of that to make bread flour. So I got to thinking... Why not go higher? What does a 16% gluten bread look like? How about 20%? 25%? Is this the easy kitchen hack that renders all sorts of tough doughs easier to develop? No-knead sourdoughs became famous for using time to create gluten development, so can I make a bagel out of extra-high gluten dough and develop it in the refrigerator without all the effort associated with using kneading bread flour or AP flour into bagels?
This is two years old but... I have made insanely high protein breads (for the gainz) and my main takeaway is that they work for making breads of all kinds (pizza, ciabatta, sourdough boules in my experience) but that they taste kind of weird. I hate the fishy taste you get from the extra gluten. I would never sacrifice the good taste of bread for the beneficial structural properties of more protein. But YMMV.
Just realized that heterogeneity is actually one of the really nice defining characteristics of so much hand / home made food and that the homogeneity of most mass produced food is just one of the reasons it’s so much blander.
I always wondered why my macaroni sometimes boils over - starch increasing the surface tension of the water allowing larger bubbles, huh? Nice to know there's a scientific reason for my incompetence at cooking.
Hey Adam, I'm curious. I love making pizza using your other recipes, but the kneading process is extremely long and hard for me. Would this Autolyze thing be useful in pizza bread as well?
Yes! It can be used with pretty much any flour recipe. In fact, it should work even better with the pizza dough because it's higher hydration. And for kneading after the autolyze, I would look into techniques like stretch n fold. It takes more time but gets a similar result with almost no physical labor required
it occurs to me that an inexpensive source for malted barley syrup would be your local home-brew shop. they call it extract instead of syrup. but it would certainly do the job and be far cheaper than Whole Foods
How does this malted barley syrup compare with liquid malt extract (LME), the viscous stuff familiar to amateur home brewers everywhere? Due to a bit of a misunderstanding with my home brew club I have several gallons of amber LME in my freezer and I never thought to use it in bread and bagel making like this.
They're the same thing. The home brew stuff is exactly what I use for my bagels and they're fantastic. Somewhere on the label or online for your particular product it likely says its made from malted barley.
Liquid malt extract can be from non barley sources and it will specify if it is but otherwise they are the same thing. Liquid malt extract is just the nerdier more precise form of malt syrups
In Portland, Oregon we have a local chain called Henry Higgin's Boiled Bagels, and they are made boiled, like yours are. This video inspired me to crawl out of bed and go buy some.
The only trouble I have with these videos is that you can't find a single malted product (except for the beer I guess) in grocery stores in my part of Europe.
I don't know where in Europe you live but you can find Baker's malt in every supermarket in Germany. It may be not the best idea to use in bagels because it will eventually cause the gluten to breakdown but it improves browning a lot. Also the internet exists and can be really handy for these kind of ingredients.
@@morristgh the sole reason why I watch mainly Adam's recipe videos is that most of the times I can get everything I need from my local groceries for a pretty good price too. But then there comes some weird cheese or malted milk/syrup, so I should either look for a substitute (which actually saves the recipe for me in many cases) or just drop it, cuz there's really no anything like that within reach and buying stuff online is kinda too much effort.
I always like how you manage to reduce what other cooks might portray as a very laborious and challenging process into something that looks very approachable. I was always a little scared to get into bread making, it just seemed like it was a whole other world that I wasn't sure I belonged in. Theirs yeast, blooming, different types of flour, kneading techniques, rising, ect. It was a bit daunting looking from the outside in. Well I've been making my own pizza dough for a while because of you and yeah now after seeing this it looks like I'll end up making bagels sometime in the next few weeks.
You are absolutely not wrong about bread making but I would look at it from a different angle. You can do almost everything wrong and still end up with an amazing end product that you will enjoy a lot. If you stick with it you will gradually improve and you will probably always have something to improve on. It's your own personal journey. Pizza Dough is also a great place to start.
Hey Professor Goose... are you taking video requests? Would love to test the myth that "aluminum stock-pots impart weird flavors into tomato sauces." My dad said he wants a stainless steel stock-pot for Xmas because stainless pots do not cause "off" flavors in acidic Sauces. I'm not a trained chef, my dad is not a trained chef, and he has never cooked a tomato sauce in an aluminum pot to test anyway. Though I suspect he's eaten plenty of delicious tomato sauces from Italian restaurants that were made in aluminum pots. Can you test this?
NY style bagels typically have a higher gluten content than bread flour can provide. Some recipes recommend adding vital wheat gluten to get the protein levels up and add chewiness.
So there are a few different opposites to lubricant. In the context of using flour to dry out the outside of the dough to keep it workable, I believe the opposite there would be desiccant. The flour is acting as a desiccant.
/Pushes up glasses Ummm actually the bagel would be the same carbs whether it was thin or thick assuming the same amount of dough went into making it. The thicker one would just have more CO2 and bigger holes in it causing it to be thicker, but less dense. Also: Algorithm the for comment. Love your vids :)
I haven’t made bagels (although now I might) but I’ve had success using parchment paper to proof Stella Parks’s dinner rolls, which are boiled before baking too. The trick is to cut the parchment so each roll (or bagel) is on a separate piece - then you can use it to lift the roll into the boiling water, and the paper separates easily once it gets wet and the roll firms up a bit. There’s definitely less waste using the oil method, though (especially since a little oil is helpful anyways to get the parchment to stick for the baking step). It’s also probably less important for a low hydration dough like this, since it can take a little manhandling during the boiling process.
These bagels seem a lot more Montreal style bagels (another city with a significant Jewish population and strong bagel tradition). Montreal bagels are less bread and with larger holes than new york bagels, and use a method like this one to form the holes. If you haven't had them and are in Montreal you should try them our:)
I think abrasive implies it's used to wear things down. Some quick googling suggests maybe there's not a word for this sort of a substance? In car brakes, for example, it looks like they literally just call them "friction materials" so seems like there's not even an industry-specific word for it.
Made these today. I prefer to roll around the hand about 1 1/4 times. Just overlapping the ends so they are thick like the rest of the bagel. - about an inch of overlap. This makes for an even bagel all around which I prefer so it doesn’t break fishing it out of the water and it’s even This recipe is pretty good. Adding extra flour and kneading and adding more and kneading is key for a big fluffy NY style bagel. Takes about 20 minutes by hand. Also , stick with the malted barley if you want that NY style bagel taste you’re used to. If you want to make with honey, I would look up a Montreal style bagel recipe because they use honey - and they are much thinner and crispier. - so something different to try :-). I am on the lookout for one and I’ll post it here in the comments when I try one I love both Montreal and NY style - Depends on my mood. Lately I prefer the thinner crispy sweet Montreal style, but growing up in NY, I love the soft chewy dough and the barley malt taste so this will satisfy that craving when I’m homesick.
Loved the video! I made the first bagel video you had, really excited to try these! The Autolyse process is interesting to me! It’s basically just the “natural” version of kneading? Why needed (or usually used at least) in authentic sourdough baking?
I have not seen this actually tested, but autolyze adherents feel that by letting the dough naturally hydrate you get a better tasting bread with a higher rise in the end. Again, I have never seen these claims tested, I am just repeating what bread bakers I know who use an autolyze tell me as the reason why they use it.
It helps immensely for wetter doughs where kneading is physically impossible and all gluten development is performed via stretch and folds. Autolyse gives you a head start and is sometimes done for like 8 hours.
Hey Adam, I know you're a fan of NY style bagels, but what are your thoughts on the long standing rivalry between New York Style Bagels and (the far superior) Montreal Style Bagels?
Thanks Adam! It's impossible to find bagels down here in south america. I used your last bagel recipe to make my own and it tastes delicious. I still have 3 or 4 on the fridge and every morning I get one to make myself an egg sandwich. Now I have to find malt extract to make my bagels even more new yorkers
Um... if you put malted barley syrup in water, you get a low pH solution, though, so you kinda need to add an alkali salt to raise the pH above 7.0 (the syrup itself has a pH at about 5.5, give or take).
Fun fact: malt is comparatively rich in proteins! This is likely the explanation to your question about the crust, because the malted barley syrup has more peptide compounds (about 3% protein content) that can then react with the carbohydrates in it (most of it being maltose, but there's about 30% of more complex carbohydrates) - i.e. Maillard reactions.
YYYYAAAAUYYYYYYYYY!!!! I’m getting a new oven this month and I live in Korea now and bagels here are obviously not … like home in Queens. I’ve saved a few recipes but this could NOT have come at a better time, Adam.
I am troubled by the word "sugar" that seems to be used indiscriminately without really understanding the impact that different so-called sugars have on mammals (potentially). Personally I avoid what we refer to as 'sugar' meaning sucrose but the other 'sugars' are OK for me. What 'other' sugars? Well, I brew beer using maltose, I drink milk containing lactose and I sometimes (rarely) use glucose to sweeten something when required. It is the largely manufactured 'sucrose' that is the problem, being a 50/50 mix of glucose and fructose. There is a lot of bad press out there on fructose, being particularly bad for inflammation and liver problems. There is a lot of info out there on simple sugars, long-chain sugars and starches. But to just refer to Malt as 'sugar' is misleading. Yes it is A sugar, but it is not Sugar, that is reserved for the product of sugar cane and beets currently running at over 2 billion tonnes per year. It seems that any extreme (wheat husbandry spring to mind) manipulation of nature comes back to bite us one day. Ah well, rant over, feel better.
What is the difference between Diastatic Malt Powder and Malted Barley Syrup in relation to bagels? Where does food grade lye come in? The lye is more traditionally known as the secret ingredient to NY bagels, along with NYC water and powdered diastatic malt rather than syrup. Awesome looking bagels though!
Your pizza recipes got me started baking; and now watching you try to bake makes me cringe🤣. Just use a scale when ur baking dude its the 21st century. U wouldn't need to add flour after your autolyse (which has a negative affect on the final product, as the gluten in the added flour doesn't develop much) if u just used weight.
The dough should be left in one big loaf while rising; individual bagels should be formed by cutting smaller portions and rolled into a donut shape. Left 10-15 min to rise and then boiled in water and honey ! Then, dozed with sesame or poppy seeds. Bake to a nice crisp ! Best bagels in Montréal ! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kFAGV35eu6I.html
I honestly believed all these years that, Bagel is bread deep fried in oil Donut is baked, Not only am I wrong, and exactly opposite, They deepfry the fricking bagel in water!!!!
This may be the first video I have watched where I have to say, no, Mr. Ragusea. Folks, if you want to learn to make bagels, try someone who knows how to bake. If you keep adding that much flour throughout the process of kneading and shaping, it interferes with the process the dough is going through.
Oddly enough, no thesauruses I can find list an antonym of "lubricant." Notionally "abrasive" should be one although that's not exactly what you're going for here. Also isn't "autolyse" usually pronounced "auto-lees"?
You definitely should check out Paysan Bread and Bagels in Knoxville if you have not yet. They make the closest thing to NY bagels I have had outside of the city.
Malted Barley syrup is actually a common grocery store item in Norway, sold as "malt extract", it's good for babies' digestion if they're having a tough time digesting something.
Now those are bagels! Not like some of those wannabe "rolls with a hole" that some folks make. Is it true that just like with NY pizza, the best bagels are made with New York City water?
Good crust usually means maillard reaction, which require reducing* sugar and amino acid in a quite high temp, low moisture. Reducing sugar (glucose, galactose, maltose, lactose"milksugar", and more) and non-reducing sugar (sucrose maple syrup beetroot canesugar, and fructose* honey, fruit syrup, corn syrup, and some sugar alternative). This is from memory so might not 100% accurate. If you want good crust use: reducing sugar source Milk powder, maltose, caramel. And amino acid source, egg, bean and nuts.
Croissants are extremely difficult pastries to make correctly. Also, the right butter is lower water, higher fat than is generally available in US (or even European) grocery stores. They're not entirely out of the realm of a home cook, but they are probably out of the scope of Adams "you can do this at home" channel.
Please post more malt content. Malted barley is one of my favorite flavors -- it makes the best bagels, milkshakes, beers, candies, breads, cookies, dipping sauces (malt vinegar)... It is severely underappreciated.
