Watching this is the cheat code to having amazing Olympic games trivia. Every event "You know there's actually a faster/better technique which they banned a while back..."
Yes. They should however only ban techniques that are really unsafe or are unfair. I can see that spinning javelin (put a net around the throwing area?!) or the cartweel shotput are potentially dangerous, but like, sommersault high jump and long jump are not really! They be sommersualting over a beam in gymnastics or paralell bars and that is fine🤨 Edit: it's not a problem however the sommersault ban, but where could we be if it was allowed? 9.5m? 10m? If I were to do long jump I would be happy for the ban because I hate inverted stuf, so disorientanting and dizzying
The only interest in sports I have ever had has been related to obscure trivia. Sorta like how the hockey puck used to be a hard ball but … the owner of an indoor ice rink got tired of having to replace the windows so he took out his pocket knife and cut the solid ball into a puck shape.
The answer is always allow athletes to push boundaries, if anything make it more important to be accurate so that they can’t just throw randomly. If the rules force people to be accurate they will focus a lot on being controlled. If childrens safety is an issue ban it for highschool athletes but not adults.
yea and i agree with the javelin spin. You are using the spin momentum to throw it, not your actual arm, so you just have to adjust your definition of how you throw a javelin, actually using arm power, or using gravity/momentum. But if you think about it, the shotput, hammer, etc are momentum/spin based for extra power, why wouldn't you have the javelin the same. It would simply be changed to the javelin toss, not the javelin throw, fitting in exactly with the other events of the discus, hammer toss, shotput. Only the javelin is the odd one out now.
@@eolsunderbecause a shot has no chance of getting near spectators and the netted cage protects spectators from inaccurate hammer and discus releases....trying to protect spectators from a high velocity spear is nigh on impossible....to make a net strong enough that the javelin couldnt punch through would be to make it dangerous to the athlete in terms of rebounds.... think about what you are saying 😳
As a nine year-old in the season 1963/4 I first competed in the high jump and first saw a 10-year old from the Croxteth area of Liverpool, Kevin Doyle, execute what was to become known as the "Fosbury Flop". Advised against a front dive over the bar and twisting in mid-air, he adapted his style to going over backwards à la "dangerous" Dick and was eventually disqualified from all competition. The problem was the landing pit full of sand but in those days, nobody thought to recognise Doyle's genius when censure was easier. Fully four years later, Fosbury took the laurels but for me the first and finest, most beautiful and most acrobatic will remain Mr. Doyle.❤
As a lawyer, you might be interested in the 2 dozen pole vaulter deaths and many spinal injuries from landing on the "steel and concrete" box which hasn't changed for 100 years! Weird! Not publicized much either. You should research why! Quite the rabbit hole!
You got the definition of shotput backwards. The shot is the ball (think cannon ball>shot) and the put is the throw; as in you're "putting" the "shot".
Guys, remember! IAAF is now World Athletics 😅 I can tell you this 8372 times more so you could remember well. I really love this video! (And the IAAF is World Athetics now)
You never explained how "water is banned" in a marathon. You could have very easily said "athletes in the Olympics or World Championship can only get fluids from approved aid stations." But water is not banned from a marathon!
I remember a time in the 80s when the vast majority of hurdles got kicked down because it was allowed at that time. This technique allowed the runners to jump less high, basically karatekicking the hurdle down. It was ridiculous to watch and after a race there would be just two or three hurdles left standing. It really looked ridiculous.
@@lmp9726 we seem to have a wikipedia-facebook-university alumnus in the crowd... Go weigh one in real life, do your calculations and revise your statement please. Then we'll talk.
Ex Pole vaulter here. I think Volzing sounds a lot more impressive than it actually is. The higher you get the more time you have to act, and elite athletes will have a decent amount of time to deal with the bar. That fact is quite apparent when we look at how much it took off during the Volzing era and just how far athletes could push it. Granted modern carbon fiber poles have reduced that time window, but it's still a pretty cheap and easy way to gain an advantage (if it were legal). The advantage gained is substantially higher than the skill required, and it takes from the actual art of pole vault itself.
the argument that the spinning javelin is dangerous doesn't make much sense since the hammer throw seems just as likely to take out the audience and they could use the same cage, I think a better reason would be to make it different from the shot put and hammer throw
@@zzipkis the problem becomes that you have to make it small enough so that a spear cant go through, and that would be small enough to limit visibility.
the issues are even worse: - in order for a cage to hold off a javelin not only must it be very tight net or fabric, but it must ensure the javelin cannot penetrate it. Such a fabric (even if translucent) would practically be a sail. The cage is how high again? The force on the poles created by gusts of wind is significant, structural failure has huge potential for serious injuries. - in 50's the record for the spinning javelin (just 2 athletes who practiced for some time) was 112 m, ca 25% higher than the WR at that time (something thousands attempted). Imagine all athletes using this technique and the progress of the WR, the potential for a successful throw to hit a spectator or other athlete is significant.
Good video!! Concerning the Mexico Olympics, High elevation adds to competition difficulty. High elevation training is known to improve performance at typical elevations. It never makes it easier. Less oxygen at higher elevations.
Regarding the high jump, over 40 years ago on the TV show, "that's incredible," a male gymnast did a backflip over an 8' high brick wall, far exceeding the then high jump record. There's no reason for the event to be limited to one foot.
The high jump rule said you have to go off one foot. the main reason gymnasts get that height is because they're transferring all of that horizontal momentum into vertical and flipping rotational momentum. That's really only possible with punching with 2 feet. Swinging your leg off of one foot like a corkscrew (in freerunning/tricking) is great for flipping momentum, twisting momentum, and horizontal momentum but pretty terrible for height when your trying to get over a 8 foot bar without clipping it. Easily they would clear that thing if they could do a running roundoff back-handspring punch with both legs and stall out a backflip so they dive right over the bar and then finish their rotation. But off one leg it wouldn't be as effective as the current high jump technique.
Thank goodness athletes are encouraged to drink water today. I remember back in the 1980's when wanting water was looked at as a sign of weakness. We did 2-a-day practices in American football in high school in August. I remember weighing myself before and after practice, and on average I would lose 5lbs, and once I lost 7 1/2 lbs and it was mostly water weight. Kids have died of heat stroke in such conditions. Two-a-days have been done away with thankfully, and coaches now have to give regular water breaks.
High altitude, such as in the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City benefits sprinters and jumpers, but not endurance athletes. The higher the altitude, the less dense the air is, thus less resistance. The drawback is, there concentration of Oxygen is also lower which makes it much tougher on events where endurance is a factor.
I'm totally down with the spinning javelin throw being banned. Mainly, because it's not in the spirit of the reason we measured javelin throws in the first place. It was a sport that translated into real battles. With throwing a javelin the normal way, you can can still face towards your target as you aim. But you cant do that when spinning. No war commander is gonna let their soldier compromise all accuracy just so they can throw a few extra feet. The technique should reflect what would be most effective on the battlefield. Close or long range.
It is far too dangerous. If there is one try that got out of hand, some bystanders (especially in a full stadium) are dead. With a normal throw it is nearly impossible to throw the javelin so much next to the field.
The spinning javelin is also almost useless as a weapon since its not flying tip first the whole time. It is super likely to just smack into someone sideways doing minimal damage.
Not really. I'm pretty sure they'd sometimes have everybody throw at once in battle line against a massed charge, where distance might be more important than accuracy. Assuming you're not skewering your comrades in the mix, I guess.
exactly. Especially right from the start. The guy doing the flip on the long jump. Really he's not cheating he tried something smart. He simply used his body momentum. But the events want you to do things "exactly" this way. What if spinning helped, could you run, jump, spin in the air and land, it's still a jump wether you flipped or twisted or jumped. What if they did the same thing with the high jump and only allowed you to use the old method instead of the better current method.
At 33:43 where it discusses sodium, reminded me of the salt tablets we took during track. Also, correction at 38:46 elevation may improve performance in shorter distances but not so in long distances.
I do not think techniques should be banned. In tennis in the 70s we were told not to use our wrist hitting forehands and backhands and we would get sideways and swing high to low to high while shifting our weight from the back foot to the front. Jim Arias's dad invented a better technique and Nick Bollettieri saw Jim Arias hitting forehands and decided that was his new forehand and started a academy (Andre Agassi learned that forehand there). Besides using the wrist to get more brush and spin they started hitting open stance and semi open and rotating into the shot instead of a gentle weight shift forward. Then not sure who started it but Roger Federer started relaxing his wrist/forearm so that when he brings the racquet back and then rotates his arm forward the racquet and much of its handle keeps going backward and then rebounds forward like a whip. Many tennis teachers are still teaching the 1970s forehand. Others teach the Agassi forehand and very few are teaching the Federer forehand which is clearly better.
But that is a perfectly safe difference in technique, not something that is very likely to result in 10s of middle and highschoolers hurting their necks,
the idea of banning a techquies to prevent injury isn't for the top level, its for kids trying to learn/copy the tequie first and foremost the Olympics is to inspire
Very fascinating! I'm just an amature endurance athlete (non track and field) but as far as I know the super shoe craze reached the track spikes as well! Let's talk about that!
Great segment Jumpers Junction. Super informative and easy to digest. You have helped many to understand the evolution of many evolution in track and field history.
Yeah, the fact that they still allow the pole vault shows that they're not afraid of a little danger being posed to the athlete. They just don't want to mess with tradition, even though the Fosbury Flop is one of the most beloved track and field anecdotes.
The pole vault is less dangerous than spinning and throwing javelins etc., especially for other people like bystanders and umpires. Second, its boring, its every time spinning and flips, at every sports where you throw something. Third, the stadiums and sports fields could be too small because of the much greater length of thrown javelins. Fourth, for amateurs and beginners throwing like this is a no-go (too dangerous), so there is a big gap between how pros do the sports and how amateurs.
@@BB-sl2so "it's boring" isn't accurate, and even if it were, it's not an actually defense. Sports should be about finding the limits of human achievement, making an arbitrary "no flips" rule goes against that. Your other concerns could be addressed by a much-needed restructuring of how track and field arenas are laid out; they haven't changed in a hundred years, and most events are constrained by these arbitrary design choices. Put up proper protective walls like in Hockey, spread things out more instead of cramming them in the 400m ring, make sure people are trained in safety.
@@BB-sl2so have you ever seen Star Wars or any other SciFi Movie? We could be facing interstellar enemies one day, do you want us to look like babies? Or do you want our children to be spinning and flipping like Jedi warriors throwing high energy speers and swinging electrical swords like ninjas? If sports is not for becoming stronger and stronger as humanity, what is it good for? Look at skateboarding and how its getting more and more popular or similar sports; why is that? Because it can freely develop and looks cazier and crazier from generation to generation.
TJ: Jaak not Jack, Estonian Soviet. Also: The BRUSH-SPIKES continue. My bobsled spikes have 250+ (per shoe) of hardened 5mm triangular spikes that give ABSOLUTE positive traction on ice. and....As a brakeman I have on occasion shredded my teammates tights upon entry after the push. Lol 😮
The Volzing rule for pole vault makes sense, because the vaulter could be below the bar (which flexes), but is able to settle or replace the bar as they go over. Volzing is cheating. I am surprised, however, that they did not show my butt-first technique, which won me practically nothing...unless the other team had no vaulter at all... As far as somersault long jump, if your hands come down behind your feet in the pit (like the video), your jump is shortened. I think long jump pits need to come into the modern era and find some kind of synthetic landing material or an electronic means to measure jumps; contrary to popular belief, not all of that sand is soft, and you can hurt yourself in some pits.
How cool would it be to get a rule named after you like David Volz? It's already awesome when a move or technique becomes named after you. But when you're too good at something that they have to limit you, like Martin Brodeur or Gretzky it's a whole other thing.
Very interesting video. As someone who has been interested in athletics for fifty years I learned a great deal from this documentary. I think the Ethiopian who won the gold medal was rightly reinstated because the lapped runner hindered both front runners and unless collusion between the two Ethiopians could be demonstrated, the eventual winner had not infringed the rules.
To my mind they should welcome innovation. Any new technique that is still bio-mechanical should be allowed. The risk aspect belongs to the competitor not the regulator I think. The fosberry flop could have been regulated out of use but they went with it and it's proved a real boon to the sport. The tumbling long jump deserves the same treatment. There's a common theme in the banned techniques. It's leverage and conserved momentum. If we are looking for the best use of the human body I think these techniques are completely valid. The safety of the public watching is a completely separate concern. The banning of group B rallying is another example of punishing the competitors for the faults of the organisers and the fans. Let the techniques evolve and manage your spectators accordingly. Luv and Peace.
when i saw the beginning montage, i thought that the entire video was just going to be one hour of banned techniques being listed at lightning speed. much prefer this format!
I never noticed this but in the video of the guy throwing the 104m javelin one of the people near him dosnt even look at where the javelin is going he just stares at the guy who threw it like wtf bro how did you do that lol
The front flip long jump? Of course it was banned. Its easy to imagine parents suing schools after their teenagers get concussions from landing on their heads. @2:26 spinning javelin! Thats Amazing! @17:03 Volzing the pole vault bar. That takes skill. For most people it would be HARDER to try to stedy the bar as they clear it.
I was scanning the comments for mentions on this. The high jump is by far my favourite category and I've always been curious as to how the technique might be improved, especially because I'm a short guy. Incidentally, I'm hypermobile, so trying the mix of gymnastics within athletics might actually prove to be worthwhile. Do you happen to know if there is any research on this? Also, since you've tried it yourself, if you're ok with it, could you please advise me how to start practicing this method? Specifically, since I haven't tried it either on one foot nor both feet, would you recommend starting by practicing the classic jump in gymnastics and then switching to one foot, or do you think that even if it's more difficult at the beginning, it might prove better on long term to start practicing on one foot only and develop a unique method over time?
@@dima.86 well I haven't done any research on the subject. I was doing the high jump back in 2005. I simply was just extremely athletic and loved to play basketball and dunk so I was always jumping off one leg. So my first time trying the front flip I was just being silly and my friend kept daring me to keep doing it. Well I kept doing it and was winning. I would do it until I got to 6'1 and then I would start doing it the traditional way. It's all about feel. So if you can get your chest above the bar you definitely can make it over. Just try it and have fun with it
@@sidney1234usc Thank you for your answer! If and when it shows promising results, I'll return to your comment and tell you all about it. Thanks again!
All that was needed was to create an environment of safety with the spectators, for example, a fenced area for the athlete only.. Problem solved. Fosbury Flop had him landing on his upper back and NECK! Provided that all spectators are safe, allow the athlete to do whatever technique they can use to achieve the goal of the individual sport. If not, it's like saying, "Hey, you can't use that particular law of physics! "
Can you just imagine the high jump now if the Fosbury flop had been invented nowadays the IAAF would probably have been Banned. Because it was sooo much of a change from what was the norm up to the Olympics of 1968!
When I was at school back in the 1960s, when my class was doing high jump, I used a tumbling technique followed by a summersault over the bar. I felt that played to my strengths as I was rather short but very nimble. My PE teacher decided that's not allowed. Long jump was the same story. I then realised that athletics favours taller competitors so lost all interest. I'm just not built to compete on their terms.
Why your volume go from loud/normal to quiet af between last 2 topic? Had a rough monitor I was watching from and couldn't hear the last bit at all. oof.
I was present in 1956 at Franklin Field for (just 15 was a 1/4 miler) the Penn Relays. Saw Miguel Salcedo and with officials watching throw the javalin 'Spanish-Style' (Had a wet cloth that 'lubricatred' his grip allowing it to slide off and 'helicopter' down the field.broke current world record each time Hw wasa from the The University
@@dacramac3487 Most injuries I've seen in long jump comes from the takeoff. If they land in sand, they shouldn't take too much force damage to the shins.
@@McJaews Do you really believe it is about the shins? And not about the neck!? And of course you have seen most injuries by the takeoff, because the somersault technic and therefore the most dangerous technic is forbidden.
If there are truly athletes then they will train and learn to adopt any new technique discovered. They should have at least let some of these go for a couple years before banning
3:30 Care must also be taken when assuming Hollywood know what they're talking when it comes to battles during older times. Hurlers were used in Medieval times during battles, and they would hurl all kinds of things, such as rocks, chain with lead weights, and iron bars such as that displayed but which in the illustration is a mining tool. Hurlers were used to break up enemy lines, through which foot soldiers could attack or cavalry ride through to attack rear echelons etc. Throwing techniques could vary, and this one looks like a hurler at work. If we accept that athletics is just a mixture of modified battle elements, then hurling like this is appropriate IMO.
No high altitude does not (generally) improve performance. Higher altitude = less oxygen = lower aerobic performance. On the flip side the air resistance is lower, so for some events the net effect will be positive, for others it will be negative.
really the goal of hurdles is to jump over them. Having athletes allowed to just knock them down if they slow them up shouldnt' be in the sport at all. Bring back "if you knock down so many your disqualified". Its the hurdles! you jump over them that is the skill, not "its hurdle pinball, the goal is to knock them over." change the rules back.
High elevation does not add performance straight up. When you train in high environment and return to sea level you get the benefits. At least that is how i understand it.
"We're gonna ban the somersault jump dye to safety concerns! No we will still allow gymnastic routines." "We will ban the circular javelin throw due to safety concerns! Discus? Hammer throw? Perfectly safe!" "We're gonna ban the cartwheeling shotput due to the fact that we're too lazy to actually write it out and 'safety concerns'!" The hurdle decision I agree with, the point of a hurdle race is to leap over the hurdles, it'd be silly to just allow athletes to bull through them and it fucks with other runners when it throws debris in their way, which is genuinely unfair. The somersault highjump would be cool to see. It'd probably get banned for stupid reasons, but the point of the competition is to jump as high as possible. I dont think the somersault highjump should be considered an illegitimate way to do that. As much as I hate to admit it I agree with banning steadying the bar, the point is to clear the bar, not use it to get over. I don't see the issue with a lapped runner getting back ahead of the race leader, it's still racing for position even if you're a lap down, and it's not like the lapped runner was blocking the leaders or running interference for his teammate. I fail to see how it's unsportsmanlike to race hard like that, especially when he allowed the leaders past him before overtaking them. Built up shoes are a grey area and really comes down to a smell test. Short of making athletes compete naked like back in the old days there really isn't any way to stop technological doping, it just comes down to what /feels/ right, and that's always a nasty area to regulate. But when it starts to become absurd like the built up shoes did it needs to be regulated. I guess the runner of the very first marathon /did/ die immediately after he got done with the run, so banning drinking water during the run is in keeping with that spirit. All jokes aside, I think it should be down to the runner and their coach to determine how much water they should drink during the race, making water available is not inherently dangerous. Brush spike is the same as the built up sole, it is what it is. Ban them or don't, it doesnt /really/ matter.
World Athletics called IAAF, International Amateur Athletic Federation (from 1912 to 2001) and International Association of Athletics Federations (from 2001 to 2019, both abbreviated as the IAAF) = from July 1912 to October 2019.
The rulebook only states that Volzing is against the rules if you do it WITH YOUR HANDS. Now let's see athletes train to steady the bar with their legs.
I wonder about the lack of understanding measures : 1,27 cm is written clearly but outspoken is 1,27 Millimeters instead of Centimeters. The misconcept is like I would call something which is 1 foot long 1 inch long.
Clearly they knew the rules would be changed soon after they stole the record from Campbell so they didn't even measure the jump because if they had measured it then ruled it foul, he'd get the record once the rules were changed
If the rules for shotputt was the shot has to be over the shoulder height. It should have been deemed illegal from day one, as the shot would be under the shoulder during the spin.
the spinning javelin throw very likely isnt better. the javelins have changed a lot and a i think thats the main difference here. would love to see the long jump somersault done tho, if its safe enough for gymnasts is should be fine for long jump.
tfw kids find ways to objectively improve on outdated methods of very basic tasks such as 'who can throw this rock farther' and you arbitrarily deem what they have done invalid because its too new and scary
No, you couldn't. It isn't like discus or hammer throw where you could just use basic netting. It's effectively a spear, they're designed to penetrate. You'd have to either have solid walls, or very strong material with very small holes. Either would largely block spectators view, and would introduce their own safety issues. Personally I think banning it makes more sense in general anyway, as it would be ignoring the historic origins of the javelin.
So you have to change between netting for discus and shields for javelins. That all costs extra money. Normal (amateur) sports teams dont have much money, especially athletics. So you only widen the gap between pros and amateurs, and they are then playing two different types of javelin sports.
I think it's okay to ban it from the point of view that they are preserving this thousand years old historic sport. But if course safety too, a spear is a dangerous weapon that can go inside the body of a person in an accident.
somersault is all muscle coordination and should stand. The same should be for the shot put. We will push technique in all sports. That is what makes us human.
How does high altitude improve performance? Doesn’t high altitude just have lower air density which would lower endurance? Or is the lower air resistance enough to make sprinters faster?
It lowers endurance, but when you are talking about a 10 to 20 second race, or a long jump, that hardly figures into things, then the lower air resistance makes itself felt.
I don't understand the logic behind the long jump rotation.I think it is a ridiculous reason to say that you can injure yourself with that method. So what about high jump and pole jump where you can land outside the the mattress and injure yourself. It does happen even by professionals. Should that same logic not apply to those ?
