Baseball Hitting Mechanics - Swing Plane - Bat Path 

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This is EXACTLY what Ted Williams teaches in the science of hitting over 50 years ago. The ball is on a slight downward plane, so in order to have the path of the bat match the path of the ball for the greatest amount of time, the bat must be on a slightly upward plane. Swing coaches didnt need slow motion replay, they just needed to listen to the greatest hitter who ever lived who figured this out before TV existed.

I've heard Bonds say that the quickest way to the ball is straight down...this video brings up a great point that I learned very early in teaching mechanics to golfers. You may have 3 elite top level pros say 3 completely different things and yet they all look identical. It's obvious that what Bonds means by straight down is in fact throwing the bat head STRAIGHT DOWN the plane..Feel is obviously not always real and its the coaches job to make sure the players have a good understanding of what they are saying. You do a great job of it and the baseball community is lucky to have guys like you and Antonelli! Keep it up!

Thanks John Madden. Cool name BTW. Big Madden football fan here. Anyhow, you pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as what Shuttle Baseball has been trying to say. Thing is, people don't believe me. I'm not even a baseball guy, just a dad that invented something that actually may help baseball one day. Maybe not during the time I'm alive, but one day.....hopefully....nah, probably not. "Take a downward path to the ball to create backspin because that gives the ball extra carry." ???

Thanks. Yes, of course he is a power hitter, but he also hits for average very well, which was my point. He's hitting over 357 right now at the end of the season which to me is more impressive than his 43 home runs. He's a beast either way! Not to mention only 82 strike outs.

How true this vid is. I remember playing youth baseball and every coach would get on me about "dropping my back shoulder". It wasn't until I was 12 or 13 that I found my swing and my pop, and boy did the game change for me. The difference, getting compact, and coming through the zone on the plane of the pitch. This is how to hit....period.

Yup. rotational vs. linear. coaches taught kids forever linear to the ball, basically "take your entire lower half and all your power out of your swing". I was taught it. Took me a while to break the habit and switch to rotational. Unless you are Chase "the man" Utley, and have absolute perfect timing, "dropping the barrel" on the ball is something to forget!! Getting in the zone early and staying there longer gives you a muuuuch bigger window of what I call "acceptable imperfection" that can still produce hits. great stuff as always!

Intresting theory on hitting. It's hard to dissagree when you break the video down and you see it right in front of you. Thanks for the vid and love your site! Best on RU-vid.

Great video. There are so many people that think they know hitting (obviously they don't) and teach that downward plane. It's good to see someone who knows what they are talking about. My sister has a hitting coach who is the only other person I have heard teach this swing path. Good to see that I found another resource for her to help her succeed that coincides with what her hitting coach teaches.

John I agree with you about coachs saying stuff about hitters swinging mechanics. I just had a game yesterday and I was like in the worst slumps through my baseball career. When I'm hitting, I see the ball coming but I end up getting under the ball. I'm fine now lol but I'm trying to improve my mechanics.

I complimented and commented several months ago and came across your video again. Still fantastic lesson and glad to see positive responses and lots of views. And Elijah is exactly correct. Ted Williams kept his hands a bit lower than Joe D, but both of them kept their hands/back elbow behind the body for as long as possible. I wanted to add 2 items, if I could. The Studio 42 session with Josh Donaldson debunks the 'swing down' technique. It's a must watch. Second, in teaching hitting (mostly 11 - 16 yrs old), I use a closed-shoulder drill: keep the back shoulder behind the chin for as long as possible. This will get the bat into that position you show us. I've found the better a hitter gets at keeping the back shoulder 'behind' the face or chin... the more explosive the swing becomes. Now, that back shoulder will 'show itself' but the tension created between the upper and lower body creates consistency and power.

Watching because I'm trying to coach my son (10) to stop hitting grounders. He's great in soft toss and in the cage, but yet to find it in a real game situation. This is a good start. TY.

Best piece of hitting advice period!!!! John Madden thank you for trying to make people see the light! I'm sick and tired of watching chop swings!

Agree with you 100%. .300 hitters typically take this swing plane and have a larger zone to hit the ball which allows them more time and lets them use the whole field. These hitters can take good pitches and get hits where other are a sure out.

John, you are 100% correct in your video. Actually, teaching the linear/chop swing is a disaster for any hitter, especially younger players. Bad muscle memory in the swing is extremely difficult to overcome. This is true even if a player is only exposed to the linear chop for a single season. Parents and coaches - I admonish you not to go there - even if you think it might be advantageous for a 2 strike approach. It really can ruin a kid - especially since the guy teaching it is supposed to be a hitting guru. Kids look up to that and aim to please. It can destroy their swing and their confidence in the box. That is death in baseball. In any case, good hitters today do not use a linear swing at any level. Guys are still teaching it, but their students that listen are not good hitters. They can't hit for power or average. I'm serious. See for yourself. Focus on the swing mechanics of the best hitters in your little league or on your high school team (not necessarily the kids getting private lessons and/or playing travel ball - focus on the best hitters). Take a video or some freeze frame shots. You won’ see them chopping down at the ball. If you have a hitting instructor telling you that the linear swing is a quality swing for your son or daughter ask him or her to point out a few videos of major league players that use it before you write that check. There are none. No kidding. Even the players that think they go straight to the ball generally don’t. MLB players swing like John has indicated in this video, regardless of what they think they do. That level of consistency may seem odd but at some point you realize that guys make it to the big leagues for a reason. Unless they are a gold-glover (a handful of guys), a pitcher or a pinch runner they primarily get to the majors because they can hit better than the guys down in AAA and AA. Take a look at some of the MLB player swing videos available on youtube. It will become abundantly clear that players with linear swings don’t make the cut. Hitting is the natural selection of the baseball world and there are very few guys in the majors (I am aware of none) that use anything close to the classic linear swing. If you look at video you will also see that successful hitters do not step early like the linear guys teach. They step for timing and transfer and explode into the ball while rotating their hips. It really is that simple. There are nuances within the rotational swing school that various hitting gurus and instructors focus on, but this is mostly about selling videos and related products. Those differences are truly minor in comparison to using the linear chop.

My son takes lessons from Mike Bryant. He is Kris Bryant's dad and also taught Joey Gallo. He preaches this exact same swing plane and this was taught to him by Ted Williams. Read teds book and he goes into why this is the optimal path. I have watched countless videos of pros swing and they all are on this path. Mike is also a huge proponent of not hitting the ball on the ground. The numbers back up this theory too. The worst run expectancy in baseball is a ground ball. Line drive is optimal and fly ball next. You can imagine how crazy people here in Vegas thought Mike was teaching these methods. That was until two of his guys led all of baseball in homers last year. Now you can't get in to see him he's so busy. Stick with your beliefs in what your teaching. It is absolutely the correct way

This reenforces what I have been trying to teach my son and little league teams for years. I started with "lowering" their hands. We were taught to keep hands hit, but that forces you to "chop" down on the ball. My son is a great example, most of his hits were slow grounders because he cmae down on the ball, hit it hard right into the ground and killed all momentum. I teach my kids to swing level to hit line drives.

All last year our team was great at defense but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. No kidding. Strike out after strike out. The coach never worked on batting. Just defense. Well, now this year I'm coaching and I wasn't sure what to tell the kids. After watching your video I now know what we are going to do. I'll keep you posted to see if our team improves. I'm hoping to see great improvements. You are a great teacher. Thanks.

This is a great video. Coaches, we need to begin evolving with the game. Our players rely on us. Stop doing things the way we did 15 years ago and listen to these guys like coach madden. Keep up the great work John; your pitching videos are key to the development of my young pitchers. All the best! Ryan Eadie

This is a good video tutorial for a lot of different reasons. I won't get into all of them, but hitters (particularly young hitters) need to simply understand the importance of the bat taking the same plane as the ball coming through the zone. Sounds easy in theory, because it is! Another huge element for success is keeping the barrel of the bat in the zone (from back to front) for as long as possible (short to the ball, long through the ball). For a right-handed hitter, when his bat is truly on the same plane as the ball (10-15 degrees avg.), and if the bat dwells in the zone (back to front) for as long as possible) an early swing pulls the ball, but it is in fair territory, squaring it up equals a shot down the middle, a bit late puts the ball in the right side of the field. When the bat is not on the plane of the ball, you're sort of asking for a miracle in that the two different planes must intersect at a split-second in time. This equals a low average and frustrated hitters. Anyway, this is a good vid and one I will share with my son and his teammates and coaches. Also, most devices (cell phones) now have very nice slow-motion video capabilities. This is a great way to take a vid of a kid's swing and show it back to him right away, right there on the field. Love this stuff. Like I said, good video!!!!

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this video, so tired of hearing coached say hit down on the ball and seeing kids chop at it. Thank you !!

Just think if we had all of this Knowledge when we were kids...also, it's amazing how much we have to teach mechanics these days and how little we had to do back in the day. Thanks, Steve

Have you read "The Science of Hitting"? Ted Williams wrote about this exact thing. A slight uppercut to stay on the same plane as the ball as traveling in. He published this in 1986. Who knows how long he felt that way? Since 1941? I do like how you went and found some evidence from slow motion youtube videos.

Love the break down and discussion. I've been sharing a lot of your videos with the kids I'm coaching. They connect to the lingo and the visuals. Keep up the great work!

Way to teach a “sweep”! Great slow pitch softball hitting video!

This is the best instructional video on the web.

If you watch swings from the front angle, you will see that if you draw a line from the shoulder down to the elbow and into the zone, that is exactly where your bat will go. So if your elbow is offline, that could definitely mess up your swing plane.

@2.00 your 'crazy' position is 100% correct. I came here from golf and we have an identical 'crazy' position that 90% of golfers do not achieve.

Hey John, Good to hear from you, The barrel on plane you are talking about is demonstrated more than once in Mr. Ted Williams book,{"THE SCIENCE OF HITTING",} Ted goes through it in the back of his book and also in the front portion of his book, along with detailed explanations and stroking diagrams. Due to his teachings and diagrams I teach batters to stroke the barrel {DOWN INTO A LEVEL PLANE} with/into the downward flight of the incoming ball with a slight,{5degree upswing} at the tail end/completion of barrel to ball contact into and at the beginning of the follow through. And yes a linear,straight line stroking movement is executed at the point of approaching and entering barrel to ball contact, Lay the barrel on your shoulder just below the label, take your shoulders from their non rotational tilt to as far as you can before stroking the barrel to the incoming ball, during that shoulder movement your shoulders are, will be on plane to the incoming ball which will also start and keep your barrel in the zone as long as possible. I can remember when those unknowledgeable, uneducated baseball people used to unknowingly say, {GET THAT BAT OFF OF YOUR SHOULDER,} Also, I think where most people get confused is by viewing Ted's demo of stroking the ax blade directly down into the tree which actually was only a demo of the hand position at point of contact. getting the wrong impression and then sending their wrong impressions to others, I know that I was confused about that until I became deeply involved in coaching and learned otherwise. in my playing times we were taught that from the barrels launch position to barrel to ball contact was/is a {STROKE,} and the swing segment was/is the {FOLLOW THROUGH OF THE BARREL,} after contact, in other words there are two parts/segments to barrel movement from launch position to contact and barrel movement on through completion of follow through. What say you there? As you most likely know the flat barrel lay back position should be {BARREL LAG,} not to confuse it with {BARREL DRAG,} Now, the Ball route travel lines in many videos are straight lines which certainly does not correlate or signify the actual ball travel route lines of pitched incoming balls which makes it very confusing, also the standard tees do not as you can see in your demo allow for proper barrel to ball contact without knocking the tee over which is inferior barrel to ball contact. The {BACK SPIN TEE} is the only tee that allows for a batter to be able to make good solid barrel to ball contact in correlation with incoming ball flight and shoulder tilt, GreatBaseBall-N Don Ervin ame392002@yahoo.com

Fantastic video! This is exactly what I was taught over 20 years ago when i was playing, AND what I teach to every youth ball player that I coach! I hope that you don't mind me showing them this so that it gives them a visual to reinforce what I teach in my lessons and practices! Thanks!

Im right with you bro, been telling/teaching my boys to dip that back shoulder and extend thru ~ exact same technique here, when other "coaches" were saying "don't dip back shoulder" ~ my boys kill it !!

Thanks you so much. Last year I was in a huge slump. After watching this video I was hitting great. We had a few scrimmages so far before the season starts and I hit through the cycle in one game and 2 doubles and one single in the other game. Thanks so much.

Thanks for this man. Once I hit late middle school and high school all my coaches taught me to swing down as well. In high school, I didn't fully get why I went from hitting a lot of home runs (before I started swinging down) to hitting very few home runs (good contact, rarely any lift though). Trying to get my swing back now and was wondering about the whole "swinging down thing" as it is feeling totally wrong and illogical now that I'm thinking for myself instead of just sucking down everything the coaches tell me. Thanks again!

Go Pro, I chopped down trees for fun when I was kid and later learned it helped my swing. If you want to cut the same place each chop you need to keep your elbow in tight against your body. I'm a hitting coach for a juniors team and teach what you are showing. I liked your explanation of hitting plain through the zone. I'll be directing our guys to watch your video mechanics. I think you can never say enough about mechanics.

I can attest to the effectiveness of this approach as my son transitioned to rotational hitting during middle school. (Rotational hitting is what is basically being described here) It definitely improved his power - he is a very light weight player of average height and routinely hits doubles on 300 foot fields. HOWEVER, he has also had more difficulty hitting for average with increased strike outs and pop ups. I found that the following defects will undermine the rotational swing - dumping the bat barrel, wrapping the bat barrel, dropping the hands even slightly after the stride foot is down. All of these lead to a longer swing and kill the rotational hitter's average. I also think he it helps immensely if the hitter can keep his hips fairly closed up until contact - this is usually achieved with an exaggerated or athletic stride, but would probably work as well if the stride foot simply lands closed. If the hips are open to the pitcher, I am convinced that the amateur player is only seeing the strike zone in his peripheral vision... video analysis should show that the belt buckle is pointing at the ball at contact. Even though the swing plane should align the barrel with the ball trajectory, the hand path should still be the most direct, shortest path, which is basically what's shown in the video (but not emphasized). This is important. Sometime if you emphasize barrel path, it is interpreted by the player as hand path and they start dropping their hands as the first motion in the swing. Its a bitch to correct once the habit is ingrained.

Great question. I may just have to do a video on that. Stay tuned...

been listening to you stuff lately, bought your Pitching 365 program, and I really like the way you figure out mouvements and techniques. Great video again!

John: This might be the best explanation/demonstration that I've seen. Golf instructors teach something similar, adding that you just let the hands fall and "drop" the golf club into this position before applying any power. Are you swinging hard from the top or dropping the bat into the "back elbow in...bat flat" position and then turning up the power?

The back elbow stuff coach is reinforcing also helps with another huge bad habit with youth hitters and that is casting out their hands. Tucking in that back elbow gives excellent angle as well as keeps the hitters hands inside the ball which also helps create excellent backspin while keeping the bat on the balls flight path.

I just started to work on that swing two weeks ago. Though it takes a while for your body to get used to it, once you move that elbow in, all you can do is hit hard balls. Even when grounding out, it still is hard though grounder for the infielders. Awesome swing, awesome video!

I've been trying to get my 14 yr olds to change their swing to this type. Before I seen this video I was already sold on the swing and after seeing this video it may make it a little clearer to them. How can one not see the advantage !

i always hit the ball well and this is how i swing. was never thought how to swing but this is how i learned thru years of putting good swings on the ball. great video.

Thanks for the help man, I really hope this will work in an actual game-situation for me, but i will definitely be watching more of your vids.

Awesome! Thanks Nick!!

You're probably getting around the ball when you're throwing it. Practice getting back spin on your ball. One way you can practice this is to lay on your back and just flip the ball straight up and try to get back spin on it.

Yes

this year I got moved up to play sophomore and I've played defence very well but when I come up to bat I've had the most groundouts ever and I've been hitting almost every day but I couldn't seem to figure it out I would hit 3/10 good balls off the tee and my coach told me today I'm chopping down on when he helped me and I didn't know how to fix it because I kept trying to change my hands and bat position but I think this video may have helped me a lot. Thanks!

Awesome! Thanks Coach!

Thanks for the tips I am batting .500 because the way I keep my hands inside stay through the zone and drive the ball. My coach wants us to come straight to the ball like you demonstrated at first, but all that leads to is groundouts and weak line drives. Thank you so much.

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks

You're welcome...glad I could clear that up for you.

Yeh makes total sense to be swinging through the zone , I can’t believe people still don’t know this ( including a coach my son had for several years.)

Good video...I like the observations of the back elbow and how you visualize great hitters a producing a tight back elbow. The elbow is key along with the back knee. Good stuff

This is fantastic and I am in virtually 100% agreement with all points. Nice job and thanks for sharing

your on point with the hitting zone thanks for this video. I think you just fix my kids batting issues

I like the concept and your explanation. I too never fully agreed with swinging downwards unless I want to hit the ball on the ground.

Can you make a video on where to start your hands? People have told me different stuff but I want to here it from a pro. Thanks

Thank you very much!

Great! Thanks a lot! I had the same experience with ignorant trainners. ;) Take care. Xavi

Thanks a lot i'm playing in south eas asia i was hitting like crap for the last 2 year i only had 1 homer 2 doubles and 1 triple because my coach told me to swing down but after i watch this video i was rarely hitting ground balls , i hit the cycle in my game after i watch this video thanks a lot

Thanks Mr. Joe I really enjoy learning your philosophy on hitting

Thanks man you really helped me in my swing because before I saw this video I was a terrible at hitting now that I am doing what you showed me I am hitting base hits THANKS!

god this makes so much more sense, im definitely doing this from now on. THANK YOU

thanks brother. You're right it's all about the feel of the swing and that is a natural swing

Great explanation 👊🏼⚾️

No, I've never read it. I'll have to check that out. Thanks

I agree. Great advice. Hop fully it will help me. Yeah! Thanks a lot dude

Will Lewis has been training my son on that exact plain. Awesome.

The golf swing is exactly the same as you are describing here. The shaft of the club, just like the bat, for the majority of professionals is in line with the right forearm on the downswing. This allows the club head to be "in the zone" as you say for the longest period of time. I've tried to share this with other coaches at the little league level and they just don't want to hear it. Funny..I taught golf as a professional for years and my students didn't want to hear it either LOL..must have been my approach. Great vid..thanks!

Hey man, This is a great teaching video. I was thinking of coaching kids to stay on plane by making them sweep across a couple skilz ball tees arranged along a straight line. I haven't tried it yet but will report back.

great video john just saw this I have your pitching 365 program and I'm pitching better than ever but my batting isn't going the best so I saw this video and I'm going to buy your swing plane programs thanks a lot john for all the help keep up the good work

Outstanding

I agree with the swing path of a good swing..however, I feel like teaching kids to stay high on the back shoulder and downward TO the path of the pitch and back up thru it will cause less issues than possibly giving them the feeling of collapsing the back shoulder..I don't want to ingrain the feeling of dropping down under the path of the pitch...great job...just my instruction philosophy.

Great video subscribed

Thanks for your videos John, ive been practicing with my 9 year old son who btw has never played orginized baseball and i hope this helps him to hit more line drives!!!

Thank you man, I always have been looking for some help man, This is grate stuff. I will be sure to sub and look at some of your other videos.

Ima try that out today at my game. Ive been hitting alot of grounders lately.

I'm just looking around to try and find a tip that might help my son's swing and this is great info.thanks

Awesome! I'm glad it helped! Would you mind posting this vid to your facebook and/or twitter for me?

I'm pretty decent h line drive hitter I hit the ball Every time at the plate I hit a lot of hard hit grounders and I have heard a lot of people say this and This Is absolutely right ive been Hitting sooooo many more line drives!!!! Thank you

I used to bat 7th on my team then my travel ball coach taught me this and I use it and now I bat second trust me it works

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great video, really enjoyed watching it. What software do you use to edit your videos

Nice swing! Good stuff.

Mike Bryant, Kris Bryant's Dad, who taught Kris and Joey Gallo profess this to no end. Mr. Bryant worked with Ted Williams when he was coming up with the Red Sox organization. My kid works with Mr. Bryant once a week. Down on the ball seems to be a disease that has pervaded the baseball industry. One question I have is Tony Gwynn? One of my all time favorites. How does his swing compare to this bat plane idea. Is it possible that there are multiple styles for different types of hitters. Should different kids focus on different styles based on their own hitting potential. My kid has improved tremendously working with Mr. Bryant. But, many say the true test will come when he faces off speed style pitches and the timing issue. Great video, thanks!

We all know he has power, but my point is, he also hits for average, and isn't trying to hit a home run every at bat. Point is, he's a GREAT hitter and he does the same thing.

I am 46 years old, and still play in an adult league. I have always been a ground ball/line drive hitter... the lead-off type, but have always wanted to hit more line drives. Like the video said, I have hit several balls solid, but drive them straight into the ground and knock most of the steam out of them... drives me CRAZY!! Our season starts in May, and I plan on hitting with a little more pop this year. My question is THIS... we play just once a week, Sunday... barring rainouts... how often should I realistically hit the batting cage during the week, so I won't be completely cold going into Sunday? I take this stuff ENTIRELY too seriously for a 46-year old! LOL

Great vid.

This video is 10x better than your other one on staying closed.

Great video and pls, call a spade a spade!!! these out-dated coaches are lazy and stubborn...what? they can't even watch a youtube video of an MLB swing?? No major league player hits with that T-ball A 2 B linear swing... they hit with rotational mechanics as you so well described. And, yes, yes, yes... all these great hitters get to the power slot... 1:50 -- 3:40. One point not referenced, that REALLY helps explain why this works, is ELBOWS. The distance between the elbows from setup STAYS THE SAME (if your elbows are creeping together during the swing... you are loosing speed, then power). If a hitter does this... he'll reach that power slot position AND keep his low elbow behind the bat knob like auto pilot AND the forearm and bat will be on plane (form a straight line). That's why you see the great player's forward arm/elbow up around their chins (3:20)... the distance stays the same. And, remember, the bat head MUST CATCH UP... it's physics. Want bat head speed? Get to this position and keep that bat pointed straight back (or more) and the back elbow behind the knob... AND LET IT RIP!

That help me out a lot

thanks

BK...I forgot to ask, but could you post this vid to your facebook and/or twitter? I would greatly appreciate it!

Subscribed, im gonna try this out at be today

Good video

Yes is exactly what I do tnx man I'll give it a try.

Good video....I couldn't agree more.

I know...I know...but what I meant was he also hits great for average. What are the chances you'll share this vid on your facebook and/or twitter account for me?

Been trying to do this for awhile. Get the bat in the zone, keep it there and have more room for error. Problem I have is a chicken wing my front elbow (Tony Gwynn talks about it in a few vids on here) and the bat head drops. I have been trying to stay on top because of it, kind of the opposite as your saying just to componsate. Any ideas on a fix??

Swing down on the ball or up on the ball and you have few contact points to hit the ball ... get the bat on the ball plane early and you increase contact points. Really pretty simply and rough thinking about how we were taught to swing 15-20 years ago.