Basically A War Crime - America's Future Weapon The XM-29 

Check Out Ground News At ground.news/FatElectrician Gimme some video ideas for what you wanna see next!

As a Canadian we generally dislike the Geneva convention because the first Geneva convention was just them slapping our knuckles with a ruler saying we can't stab someone and shoot them

7:57 “Paterson fire a warning shot.” “Sir this is an m32 rotary grenade launcher” “Potato potato, fire it”

Soldier: “Target In Sight, Awaiting Orders To Engage Hostiles” Rifle Chirps: “Your Tamagotchi Is Hungry, Try Feeding Her”

Fun fact: the United States never signed any treaties or agreements that would specifically prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition. The U.S. did not agree to IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899, and wasn’t even invited to the convention for the Declaration of Saint Petersburg of 1868. While the U.S. did ratify IV-23 of the Hague Convention of 1907, IV-23 does not prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition by name, only that, “…it is especially forbidden to employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering.” Additionally, neither Geneva Convention prohibits the use of expanding or exploding ammunition. And that’s why the U.S. military gets to use hollow-point bullets, such as the M1153 Special Purpose ammunition for the M17, which is a jacketed hollow-point cartridge. This means that the XM-29 technically isn’t a war crime. Well, for the U.S., anyway. It also stops being a war crime for anyone fighting a war that the U.S. happens to enter (IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899 is only binding in a war between contracting parties, and ceases to be so when any non-contracting power joins one of the belligerents in said war between contracting parties, such as when the U.S. entered World War I).

Never a war crime the first time. Or if your side wins.

DOD: "Now that after millions of dollars and nearly a decade we've decided to go with the m16 but shorter, what the hell do we do with all these prototype rifles we've made?" Sci-fi movie/tv show studios: "We'll take them" DOD: "You sure? they're really weird lookin-" Studios: *slams large briefcase of money on table* "I SAID WE'LL TAKE THEM"

"We know we can't put explosive in a bullet. But surely we can put a bullet around explosive, right?"

My Uncle carried the M79 in Vietnam. They MAY have accidentally a few times shot enemies directly with HE rounds. There was no evidence left to say whether it exploded inside or outside the target.

It's harder to be mad at the US government when it goes full send mode sometimes. There's a certain charm to it. Like when my uncle Cletus shotguns a beer and jumps off the roof naked in front of the whole family at Thanksgiving.

The real war crime is making some poor grunt carry that thing in the field.

"Automatic grenade launcher" Laughs in space marine.

"A marine jumped in my trench and stabbed me with a piece of luggage". 😂 sounds accurate. That had me dying.

Ok, my brain only computes inches and pounds… so I had to look up 400g, and that’s about .88 pounds. Then I thought, there’s no way a standard 40mm grenade weighs that much, so I looked that up also (239g total, 186g projectile). That being the case, how is the 40mm grenade we know and love ok, but it’s younger (and smarter) 25mm brother isn’t. 🤷🏻‍♂️

"order came in, they want an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher" "Grenade launcher with an undersling rifle. Got it"

I mean, tracers aren’t technically allowed because they “have a chance to ignite enemy combatants” but as far as I know we still use them in SAWs and other vehicle mounted machine guns because their purpose is a support weapon and they aren’t intended to directly kill the enemy but rather pin them down for riflemen

Another thing to keep in mind, info via my sailor daughter, the radios in the jet they lost can't connect to radios of other military aircraft in the area because they function on different frequencies. The pilot literally had to knock on the door of the house in whose backyard he landed in, and call the civilian 911 dispatcher to report the crash.

“Operation give everybody a grenade launcher.” Is probably the most accurate description of the OICW program

I was one of the soldiers who tested this weapon in 1996. It was fitted with a 20mm that had two settings (1. Direct impact 2. Timed delay). We set the delay to explode at a set range over walls, in windows, or foxholes. It was also meant to pierce light armor and explode after penetration.

Sorry all I heard was "the XM-29 is really awesome and I want to own one" Perhaps I only heard that in my head. Perhaps that is good enough

As someone who actually tested the XM-29. It was actually freaking awesome. The biggest complaint was it was very bulky.

I'm always shocked when someone investigates themselves and finds themselves not guilty. Truly who could see that happening.

"A Marine stabbed me with a piece of luggage.". I laughed so hard at this line, I was whizzing.

no no that was a warning grenade, now the rest of their squad knows that the lead guy who got turned into baloney mist is actually the baloney warning mist guy.

I like that you kept the rant in instead of cutting it out. Thanks!

The Toro zero turn fighter jets part got me 🤣🤣

The XM-25 Punisher was apparently an immediate fight stopper in Afghanistan. It was in very limited use, but I remember reading articles that as soon as the XM-25 opened up, the fight was over.

28 yrs... I really enjoy your content, effort and ingenuity.

"Tactical Car Doors..." 😂😂 First time ever those three words have been put in that order!

In my 12 years as a soldier, a "warning shot" was never something i was trained for...

"It's never a war crime the first time" "Geneva convention,more like Geneva suggestion." "It's not a sin if you gonna win" "Prohibited? Funny way to say Powerful." "Grenades rhyme with parades.That's how you know it's effective." "If war is a game well then America wants a highly overpowere-COMFORTABLE... Gaming chair..."

With all the shorts from Starship Troopers, I am glad I never waisted my time

The OICW looks like something a sci-fi soldier wearing power armor would use.

You should do one on Audie Murphy Basically won EVERY medal at the time, played himself in the movie about himself that had to downplay the badassness for believability, and might be the originator of 'Drive this tank close so I can stab them with my sword' Also, shoutout to Rodger Young, who earned a Medal of Honor and was honored in Starship Troopers, yet when I did a report on him for school was absent from 5 different books about Medal of Honor recipients.

You should do a video on Desmond Doss. On one hand, yes, they made a movie about him (hacksaw ridge), but on the other hand, movie producers had to nerf his real life actions for the script because they had been deemed to "unbelievable" for movie audiences.

Awesome content, first time viewer too and I really enjoyed watching this for sure :D -British army are adopting a notion like this but without the grenade launcher, the optics and even operable while freely waving the rifle about checking arcs without moving your head IIRC.

"The boys are calling it the baloney mist maker 5000"!! X ) fkn hilarious

The M203 was intended to give the grenadier a more active role in combat instead of the rest of the squad/platoon fighting until time to chunk grenades farther downrange than they can be thrown.

I remember seeing this thing at 'take your child to work day' growing up, back when it was first being developed. It was super cool because they were prototyping the optics housing using very early SLA printing. Straight up sci-fi stuff in the 90's. Fun fact, the fuses in those grenades weren't that smart. All they do is count how many times the round spins. The launcher sets it to go off after X spins, it detonates at X range.

As an add-on to the M16 already being able to swap between longer and shorter setups for closer or further fighting. An optic mounted to the upper receiver group of an AR15 style weapon retains its zero, so whenever you swap from a MK18 style setup to a MK12 SPR setup, your optic is already zeroed and ready for use, meanwhile the HK option had swappable barrels which made the overall amount of gear you might theoretically have to carry somewhat smaller and lighter, your optic would need to be re-zeroed every time you swapped barrel lengths. After 60 years of constant development and iteration its hard to beat the AR platform aside from just "make it bigger" which is also fairly easy to do since "Bigger" EXISTED FIRST! Eugene stoner was a fucking genius, he designed a weapon so good the military literally said "we're not ready for this" even though they didn't know that's what they said. He made the AR10 in 7.62x51 and the military still had a hard-on for the Garand so they went with its little brother the M14, then decided the 7.62 NATO cartridge was ineffective in full auto from an infantry rifle, so they went with 5.56 in the smaller AR-15 rifle, then over the years we discovered that full-auto was kind of pointless period outside of about 30 meters so we moved towards more precise single shots, THEN the military says "we need a more powerful rifle" and their choice is a (modified, modernized, & updated) AR10 that was designed a DECADE before the AR-15. He designed our new military rifle BEFORE he designed our old one!

As a Canadian I’m so incredibly proud of America for this weapon

Outlawing explosive bullets seems like a really weird entry in the Geneva convention at a glance. My guess is that the original intent was to protect medical personnel from unexploded ordinance inside a victim. Doctors might be hesitate to operate on a man with an unexploded grenade in his leg.

If you want weapons from Starship Troopers, you'd be better served by the book. Powered armor that lets you leap small buildings in a single bound, a Y-rack popping grenades left and right every time you touch down and just for snorts and giggles, a "hand flamer". Thank you Robert A. Heinlein, USNC Class of 1929

Ok, I was today years old when I found your channel. Dude, you are hilarious! I love your commentary and you've picked up a new subscriber.

the part about the grenade launcher making minor injuries on a soldier reminds me, we caught *on documentary from the soldiers helmet cams* a danish soldier (my country) in Afghanistan who got injured because the machine gun he was firing had been overheated so much that the barrel blew up in his face, or something along those lines - perhaps it was worn, but anyhow the thing exploded as he was in contact and well.. we are still using machine guns.

I love that the rifle is the underbarrel attachment😂😂 Truly a grunts'n'crafts masterpiece! Only thing missing is one of those elastic shell holders for shotguns, sized for crayons, so the marines can bring their field rations with them on their gun

I hadn't realized the XM25 ever actually saw combat, much less that it was ever effective. I was really wondering why the thing got canned. Then you explained... Yeah, that would do it.

Fascinating history. I remember reading about those smart micro grenades as a kid and then didn't hear all the stuff that came after.

The two selector switches next to each other is crazy.

The crazy thing is I graduated HS in 03 thinking this thing was pure fiction. It appeared in at least two of the Seal Team Seven book series, the LAST two of which were published in May of 2004 and 2005, respectively.

The 400g part comes from the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 and only applies to countries which signed it (US wasn't invited to the party) and then was superseded by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 which do allow for explosive rounds under certain circumstances. Which is why we have fun toys like the Mk 211, fortunately for the bad guys it's not anti-personnel it's anti-material, unfortunately for the bad guys the rifle they're holding is material

Dude. Laughed so hard when you said the government determined the government did nothing wrong. Your the best

The first thing I thought of when I saw this hunk of American enginuity was the futuristic looking gun you get in one of the last missions in 007 Nightfire

My unit had several XM-25’s in Afghanistan back in 2011-2012. That thing would stop fire fights pretty quickly and was fun as hell to shoot. But it was heavy, bulky and awkward to carry. And we also had to carry our M4 with it while on foot patrol in case something happened. It was good when it worked, but with all those electronics and sensors it broke constantly. And wouldn’t program the rounds, so it would just lob 25mm duds and we stopped carrying them. They picked them up from us after another unit somewhere else had a grenade detonate in the barrel. Plus the round were about $1,000 each.

I saw a really interesting story about the defense of Castle Itter. It's got Fat Electrician written all over it. The time a US tank crew, some Wehrmacht Soldiers and a Waffen SS Officer united in defending French VIP prisoners against an attacking force of Panzergrenadiers.

The guy in charge of the xm8 is also the guy who's why we got the acu/ucp pattern

A zero turn radius fighter jet though. Fuuuuuuuck that'd be a nightmare for our enemies. "He's on your six!...Whoop, not anymore. He's on the ground."

That is actually insanely heavy. Even old era swords weighed FAR less than that. Some of the largest ones used weren't really ever over 8 Lb's. Imagine trying to carry and shoot something twice that weight. Might not be as difficult as swinging the thing around actively but that's still gonna tire people out.

"I think a Marine stabbed me with a piece of luggage." 😂🤣

Next were gunna have guns where gen Z have to sync their phones to their equipment so they can use alexa. You know to make sure its in bullet mode and not boom boom mode for the warning shots.

When I learned about XM-29 for the first time I think it's awesome but if it didn't get implement in practical use then it must have some problem. Thanks for good explanation on this.

Woke up with a hangover, saw this and realized that the OICW was created by a designer who got woken up to a hangover and asked to make a new gun. "F*ck it, just make everything explode, leave me the f*ck alone."

I saw “war crime” and clicked faster than my phone could register it. As a Canadian, I have a certain respect for so called “war crimes”

The Deadpool cut into a mint mobile add…that was amazing

My dad worked in the big white elephant on Fort Lee back in the day and brought home all kinds of promotional materials for these programs.

I went to basic in 2003. I remember seeing random pictures and hearing rumors about it. We were all making fun of it without really knowing what we were even talking about. Most of us had never held a service rifle before basic. I'm really glad we never ended up switching to it.

You had me at Starship Troopers, probably the largest recruiting tool ever deployed on the US population.

I am sure there is now a lawyer to confirm legality of new door stops.

"tactical car doors" killed me

They literally wanted to equip the marine corps with Warhammer 40k bolters. They were trying to make real life Astartes. I love it

Fun fact this gun was in james bond nightfire the game way back. It had altering fire modes for the grenade and and assault rifle and its scope highlighted enemies

This weapon looks like the thing the Adeptus Mechanicus kept begging for until the the Ultra Marines finally caved and put it into the Codex Astartes :D

Somebody needs to take a closer look at that Geneva Convention, because there's one or two things in there that make no sense in the modern battlefield. Namely the ban on hollow point rounds, considering how many insurgents we fight that don't wear body armor, and that "exploding bullets" thing, primarily because they weren't accounting for modern tech in 1868.

As someone who carried the M-16/M-203, the idea of carrying anything heavier or bulkier gives me a backache.

Colts history of low effort contract responses is great. Not only the "twice the accuracy? How bout shoot twice :)" but when asked for an offensive socom handgun they produced a suppressed 1911

The fact that exploding bullets are a warcrime makes boltguns even cooler. :P

It’s only a war crime after it’s deemed illegal. The first time’s a freebie~

Been obsessed with this thing since i saw one in 007 Nightfire on the GameCube and was wondering why nobody talks about it anymore. The fact that's a literal war crime we committed by accident for almost 10 years explains a lot.

Dude, you are becoming my favorite contemporary military historian. Keep up the great work.

1:57 a zero degree turn radius fighter jet is honestly what we do need to develop

Just came across this and you. Good stuff. I did not know this tho i do try to keep up. More to learn. Thank you.

I've got a book that I just call my Gun Bible, it's an encyclopedia of firearms from the first development up until I think 2016 and it has this gun, the ACR, and a bunch of those other weird "future weapons" and I'm so glad I got to hear you describe these guns instead of just having to read about them

Having seen very graphic and brutal footage of whats going on in Ukraine, I now firmly believe that there are no war crimes unless you lose the war and even then, you can buy your way out of trouble like Japan did by handing over certain unethical medical research results.

I know this has been said before on other videos, but wouldn't it be great to be a part of The Fat Electrician's group of friends where you get to hear this level of entertaining story telling even if it is just about "Listen to what my uncle Ed did at Thanksgiving." Never a dull moment, I'm sure.

5:00 - that's not what PEO Soldier says. Ever hear the sweet sound of a 6.5mm high note?

That time the government decided to try start phase one of the Warhammer 40k Space Marine project by designing their gun into reality.

What's really weird is seeing this experimental weapon show up in so many videogames of the time. Scrolling through the comments I've seen a handful of games mentioned and I also remember using it in Soldier of Fortune II. It was supposed to be THE endgame weapon. You would think that a weapon that never even got put into service wouldn't be public knowledge to the point that developers could be putting it in their games.

I remember taking the OICW for every single mission in the original Ghost Recon (2001) once I unlocked it. Was quite the platform in that game, but mostly I thought it looked really cool. Really glad I never had to actually carry it.

The line "I think a marine stabbed me with a piece of luggage" had me rolling

I remember first seeing "something" of the XM29 in the PlayStation2 titled "Extermination", that fired lock-on missiles instead of the 25mm Airburst grenades. Every other game had it fire grenades, with the game "The Punisher" just being a upgraded "5.56 Assault Rifle" (M16). Just like the XM8, wish we actually had this thing. Edit: I just remembered that the missile XM29 was laser guided, not lock-on. There's two "sight components" that allow lock-on via first-person aiming.

I mean, is it a warcrime if theres nobody left to report the crime? Great video as always man!

1:00 I hear you. I have an uncle who thinks the world is flat.

"Peterson fire a warning shot..." 😂😂

Sounds about right for the government to waste so much money on something that’s no longer used. I still remember when the rumors were flying about this “future” weapon. I believe I was on my second deployment in 2007. Either way America always finds a way to be more destructive

I remember growing up and BF4 had XM25 as a piece of equipment, and one of the unlocks was darts. Kinda funny to imagine that they’d ever use that without getting taken to court in real life. I thought that there was even a Military Channel documentary about future weapons and I thought there was talks about a feature that a grenade launcher could penetrate through cover and then explode on the other side, similar to how this device could explode after passing through a window or door. Let’s not forget it’s futuristic friend the CornerShot. If anything, @TheFatElectrician please do one on that one.

"Whoops! That was a grenade!" "That's okay. His buddies are warned."

there have been grenade launcher attachments to the m16 and m4 so now they are pretty much changing the gun and making the grenade launcher part standard.

Could you possibly cover the story behind the Accuracy International Precision Marksman (the predecessor to the Arctic Warfare)? Some classic “two Brits in a shed” shenanigans, winning a sniper trial they didn’t expect to win, the contracted factory that fucked up a bunch of the specs and forced Accuracy International to say, “Fuck it we’ll do it ourselves,” and how the rifle basically lowered the skill floor on sniping so the whole sniper program had to be reworked because the Precision Marksman was that fucking badass. I know other channels have covered the story, but the way you tell stories is extremely entertaining and digestible, and I’d imagine you’d have a lot of fun.

I spent 22 years in the USMC. I was out 5 years before I realized just how much money we wasted on a daily basis. I mean, it was a common topic of conversation. But we were focused on our day to day. The amount of crap I had to find when I retired was simply amazing. A good 30% was never used. I know it wasn't used because it was in my attic still in the original packaging. And I had a lot of stuff it appears I was never issued.

My unit was part of the testing the standalone grenade launcher while in Afghanistan. It was awesome. Loved it. Not turning myself in.