My favourite piece of laconic RAF banter came from a veteran who was asked what he'd thought, at the time, about Churchill's iconic, "Never ... has so much been owed by so many to so few." "We thought he was talking about our Mess bill." 🤣🤣🤣
I remember watching this film in the early 1970's. Later thru the years as I worked on military aircraft I always remembered this scene. New pilots would damage aircraft, some just didn't make the fit. We would often cover for a student and log it in as some part failed which give them another chance. I never allowed a plane to fly unless I was willing to fly in it myself. That's how it is between Pilots and crew chiefs, then and now nothing has changed.
My uncle did the exact same thing in the military. He said he couldn't remember the number of times he would put in a false request that could have gotten him into such trouble but he did it because he knew "the lads just needed some help ta' get their wings on straight and true".
Yes I listened to this album over and over for years. Then one night while working on my model of a HE111. Listenesting to the song and that part comes on. It hits me what that is from. The Battle of Britain. One of my all time favorite movies. 👍👍👍
And, for too many of them, dead in their first mission. But that was the cold-blooded way of it then: the new pilots were, in effect, cannon fodder to keep the Germans off the tails of the more experienced pilots. If a new pilot, fresh out of Operational Training Unit, survived his first five missions he could count himself fortunate.
@@MarsFKA On the Eastern Front, despite some key German aces racking up dozens and even hundreds of kills, I read that three-quarters of German fighter pilots were shot down and killed, captured or seriously enough injured to remove them from flying duties before they had even shot down their first enemy aircraft. Fuel shortages and reduced training programmes meant the number of "Simons" on the German side increased as the war went on, on all fronts.
@@stevekaczynski3793 This is as you say. I read once that Luftwaffe fighter policy seemed to be that of promoting the stars and increasing their score cards at the expense of the newer, less experienced pilots. As I said, cannon fodder.
I think it would be cool to do a movie on a squadron of German Pilots. We already have what feels like a hundred American and British films. I mean there’s 2 movies on Mosquitos!!!!! 1964 movie 633 Squadron and 1969 Mosquito Squadron. Wouldn’t mind a newer movie on a guy like Erich Hartman or a fictional character. WWI movies have the 2008’s Der Rote Baron and 1966 The Blue Max. 1957 did have Der Stern von Afrika (The Star of Africa)
@@grahampayne6221 great movie....just for respect reasons if nothing else....i watched this with my father when it came out....he was with the royal Sussex Regiment....
I imagine many of them lived through it and had family members lost to the Germans. It took my Grandfather a long time (the 70s) to forgive the Germans. Ironically, one of his best friends in later life was a former Wehrmacht soldier who had fought against him in Holland.
When the film was released, British audiences were less than 30 years from the real events. Anyone aged 20 in 1940 was only 49 when the film hit the cinema screens. That also applies to the combat pilots of 1940 as their average age was only 21 with many 18 year olds being the replacement pilots.
@@barbaradyson6951 . Yes I do believe they were. The credits should show this, but I believe the hanger was blown up actually on the Bigging Hill aerodrome. Several B of B veterans gave advice and contributed to thus film, 'Ginger Lacy' being one of them. He taught a friend of mine to fly long ago, in the Sixty's. Perhaps, (And I know there will be others who might disagree), this is probably the finest film about our wartime history that has ever been made. The flying scenes took a great deal of areal choreography. Most of it filmed from a B25 Mitchell converted into a flying camera ship. Good credits at the end. Thumbs up all round. The Boys in Royal Air Force, Fighter Command, gave our enemy a bloody nose & thereby secured our freedoms we enjoy today. What a shame that our miserable, limp wristed, pathetic government have 'Pissed it all away', excuse my French. But yes, much of the film was taken at Duxford, (Home of the Big Wing). Respects to you.
Ummm, Spitfires and Hurricanes had "lower your undercart" warning buzzers for just such an occasion. They were just coming out of fixed gear biplanes after all.
@@stevekaczynski3793 The undercarriage of the 109 was especially hard to land with; the 190 had much more stable landings, with that wider undercarriage.
Boompsydaisy ! It's enough to make you weep. Poor Simon, Jerry had him for his breakfast ! Trouble is, this was reality. 500 Royal Air Force pilots died in the Battle of Britain. Don't know how many Luftwaffe aircrews were killed ? .
One of my favorite movies of all time. But I have never understood the character of "Simon" the very bad pilot. He was obviously not up to snuff as a pilot, so I can't understand why he simply wasn't "washed out" instead of kept on. He is later killed in combat for his carelessness. Perhaps one of the British viewers can explain why he was treated so badly by everyone in the squadron when he was obviously in over his head and not allowed to leave. It seems like the guy was trying to serve his country but just didn't have it as a pilot. The squadron mates seem cruel (to this American anyway). Since the movie is very British, is there something I am missing here?
@fliegeroh The main problem was the RAF at that time was in a 'damned if you do; damned if you don't' kind of situation. It wasn't the lack of Spitfires which was the major problem, but rather the lack of trained, and, more crucially, combat ready pilots. Even by modern day standards, as the commenter above correctly stated, the Spitfire is a pretty complex plane to fly, so ~10hrs Operational Training is barely scratching the surface. Thus the reason why the other, vastly more experienced, combat, pilots treated him with distain verging on contempt is that, having had 'green' pilots in combat with them before, he was seen as being just a big a menace to them, and himself, unless/until he was able to prove himself. If, and that was a big if, he managed to survive the first five missions, without being shot down, killed, or, worse, shooting one of his fellow squadron members, only then would he be accepted; until he had reached that point, it would be a case of 'keep to the rear, and don't bloody well get in the way ...' Harsh ...? Well, yes ... But one could say that the Battle of Britain was the aerial equivalent to the trench warfare of WWI, viz. one of attrition, with heavy losses on both sides. Ironically, had the decision to switch from attacking RAF airfields, to British cities, not been made, it wouldn't have taken much longer, in order of perhaps 6-8 more months, or even less, for the Luftwaffe to have completely decimated the RAF, meaning them achieving total aerial superiority. But, as history shows, that decision was made, which although resulted in untold number of civilian casualties, possibly ranging in the tens of thousands, nevertheless it gave the RAF the breathing space it desperately needed to rebuild, regroup, and counter-attack. Hence, the stakes were pretty damn high during the Battle of Britain, which meant that, to the more combat experienced, deploying, almost literally, a kid barely out of Boot Camp straight into combat, with zero additional training, was just asking for trouble; sadly, a large portion of operational losses were due to inexperienced pilots being shot down ... Put simply, until/unless the new pilot proved himself, he was seen as a liability, and not a asset; however, without the constant induction of new pilots, and especially not 'washing-out' even the bad ones, given the level of attrition the RAF was experiencing, they faced the struggle of keeping up with operational losess. They could ill-afford 'washing out' any bad pilot (unless he was exceptionally bad ...), as, to paraphrase a quote from 'Platoon', they needed every swinging dick in the air in the struggle to keep the Germans at bay ...
fliegeroh They really should have posted Simon to a squadron further North in 12 Group to give him time to get used to flying and more training in combat flying. However RAF doctrine at the time was wrong with line astern attacks and other such follies.
True that.. Same here in India.. SNCOs run the show.. though pilots r kinda considered fancy.. there is often the NCOs who make things happen.. There is not much written by NCOs in Indian armed forces..Hence often we dont get many stories unless u r an insider
@@mariuszmichaek5586 Being British is hardly not a compliment. You speak one of our languages, so do the most people in the world, we begun the industrial revolution, alongside a powerful history, the most powerful ever seen. I love being a Brit.
My favourite film. Watched it with my grandson. He's plane mad. I only have to say "you can" and he chips in with " teach monkeys to fly better than that ". I am ex RAF
Excellent Noel Snowden. My late-dad RAF ,flew Spitfires in Battle of Britain with 92 Sqn. D-Day on Typhoons in tank and train- busting to hamper German supplies to the beaches. Hope I can be half the man he was...
He called his wife a silly bitch for being bored after her husband sent her on vacation. That would cause an absolute riot if it was put in a move now, lol.
Remember going to see this film with my family when it came out. So brilliant, and remember reading how the director scoured the world to bring as many original airworthy planes into the film as he could. Some of the flying sequences have never been surpassed, and the film stands as a great historical record for future generations. The music's not bad either!
We watched it at Boarding School when it was released for free because on of the pupil's father worked in the cinema / film industry !! Fantastic for a 11/12 year old then !
At the start of the film there is some rivalry between the upper-class officer played by Fox and the more grammar-school NCO played by McShane. But here the two experienced pilots are revelling in their superiority over the luckless Simon.
Steve Kaczynski yep. The EF at the beginning in France interpreting for the “uneducated among us” certainly plays to that rivalry in the beginning. I can tell you from being former military that once the bullets start flying those rivalries disappear.
I saw this as a child. It was so cool to know RAF pilots basked in the sunlight on comfy chairs and traded witty barbs before heading into battle. So years later I moved to London to get a job, gain citizenship, and join the RAF. Well, turns it its always overcast, traffic is a bitch, and most of the people I met to trade witty barbs with were Indian. So it was France instead.
I knew a battle of Britain pilot he forgot to drop the undercarriage on his first flight in a spitfire because he was rushed into service after only flying fixed undercarriage aircraft - made up for it downing 3 109's and 4 heinknels before being shot down over the channel picked up by a german boat - hard luck for him 5 years POW
Some future aces had a rough start to their flying careers, sometimes even writing off aircraft. Some aces were crack shots, others fantastic pilots, but not necessarily both. And they all had a steep learning curve.
@@stevekaczynski3793 Johnnie Johnson, who became Britain's highest scorer, nearly didn't get started all. He pranged two Spitfires on landing during training and was told one more and he would be off fighters.
According to the book "Tail End Charlies", after a British bomber finished its tour without being shot down, a drunken tail gunner confessed to the pilot that on one of their earlier ops, he forgot to switch off the tail light and a German night fighter saw the light and attacked, nearly shooting the plane down. The gunner said he had not mentioned it earlier because he was worried that the potentially fatal error would get him thrown off the crew.
@@stevekaczynski3793 my dad served in bomber command his A/C was attacked by a fighter the rear gunner got it , the gun turret had to be hosed out back at base bits of him everywhere even teeth , not a pretty sight he told me
@@alanjones6359 According to the same book I cited earlier, they had to bury a lot of aircrew but not much was left of them and much of what was left was not identifiable, so the coffins would have to be filled with sandbags.
Brilliant script... and this clip is so funny. There's an organic look and feel to this film, its so real and crispy and the music..the real planes...its so fresh. It makes Dunkirk look dull and plasticky.
Watched this Apple rubbish called Masters of the Air.. Jesus not a patch on this film. This is the best WW2 air film ever produced, best actors, best in air filming with real planes and incredible crews. Such a shame we cannot make a decent film or series these days.
@@markfryer9880 There were only 3 working flyable Hurricanes available for the shooting of this film, that's why there is so few footage of the aircraft in the film.
@@markfryer9880 Although the more numerous Hurricane did get slightly more kills, the Spit performed better on a one-for-one basis and has become a symbol Britain could rally behind. It didn't help its perception that after 1940 the use of the Hurricane declined, while Spitfires became the backbone of the force and were constantly upgraded to remain competitive with their Luftwaffe counterparts.
@@JustinianPrvni No offence at Hurricanes, they were the workhorses of the RAF. I just like the look. Hurricane's had a more rugged look to them. Both in the hands of a good pilot would do very well.
Barbara Dyson true. My dad 92 Sqn Spitfire pilot in Battle of Britain admitted Hurricane much more stable gun platform than the Spit. Did the heavy lifting. Just didn't have the sexy lines...ie,a Jeep versus a Ferrari lol.
I remember seeing Alex Henshaw talk on this subject: "The fact of the matter is that, had the RAF been equipped with nothing but Spitfires, we could still have won the Battle of Britain. But had the RAF been equipped with nothing but Hurricanes, we could NOT have won. It's as simple as that". Of course Henshaw was a civilian. But he was also a crack pilot, the Chief Test Pilot at the Castle Bromwich plant where most wartime Spitfires were built, and therefore holds the record for the greatest number of Spitfires flown by one man.
Have you watched "A man for all seasons"? A Brilliant film, Shaw plays Henry VIII and appears for probably 20 minutes tops throughout the film, but his scene where he visits Thomas More (Paul Schofield.... ALSO excellent) at home in his garden is epic acting. Jovial and playful one second, then deeply menacing and intimidating the next. The whole film is well worth a watch.
@@stevenholton438 For the filming of the movie? I'm talking in real life. In real life the Hurricane was FAR more used in the BoB than the Spitfire was.
"And welcome home sir, undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it sir, well as a matter of fact it was, well I wouldn't tell the CO that sir, not if I were you"
The part where he walks back to the hut has that cricket feel to it - where you’ve just been castled and you have to walk past your mates in the sheds and you know they’re laughing there arses off at you.
I really feel for that rookie pilot - he's exactly what I would have been in his shoes! You get the feeling that they've spoken the "monkeys" bit to many a clueless recruit over the past few weeks!
And, like so many rookie pilots, he didn't survive his first combat flight. New pilots were literally thrown in at the deep end - some with less than ten hours on the aircraft that they were to fly in action - and, with the battle raging, the front-line squadrons simply didn't have the time to give them on-the-spot training.
@@ChrisCrossClash I remember that the next thing that happened, after the CO and the Simon the Shitehawk were back on the ground, was a squadron scramble with the airfield under attack. Simon, the rookie pilot got separated from the rest of the formation and was killed by a 109 that came out of the sun. This was a long time before Eagle Day. You are possibly thinking of the two other rookie pilots who didn't survive that battle.
Kudos to the stunt pilot who deliberately bounced a Spitfire over and over while landing. A hard landing can make landing gear collapse, but the pilot knew how much the plane could take and still look good on film. No CGI when "Battle of Britain" was made.
The Hurricane's undercarriage was the best by far of the BoB fighters. The wheels opened outwards, giving the Hurri a wide and stable track. The Bf109's very narrow undercarriage was worst of all when used on the bumpy airfields of France. 5% of all 109s were written off due to take off and landing accidents.
@tigerarmyrule Hurricanes shot down a lot of Bf109s too, including no doubt many whose pilots thought "Not a Spitfire, so this will be easy" 😊. The Spit and Hurri complimented each other beautifully.
@tigerarmyrule Indeed. Hurricanes were better against bombers than Spitfires. The Hurri was more stable when its pilot fired its guns, which were all positioned just outside its prop arc, concentrating their power. Also the Hurri was easier for a novice or simply average pilot to handle.
@tigerarmyrule And God only knows how much closer the result would have been if Park had not been in charge of the 11 Group squadrons which flew from the critical South East corner of England including London. His colleague Leigh-Mallory in charge of 12 Group just north of London was an egghead who wasted time assembling "Big Wings", multiple squadrons which took too much time and fuel to form up prior to steering to meet the Luftwaffe, if it hadn't turned for home already. Leigh-Mallory played a disgusting political game to have Park removed so he could steal his job. Luckily for everyone, Park won the Battle first.
Many thanks to the brave British soldiers who fought against Hitler between 1939 and 1945. As a German, I would have to spend a victory in the German Reich as a crew soldier in rainy England, would drink there lukewarm beer and run me in fog in the moor. Thank you!
Well according to many Americans ' if it wasn't for us you limeys would be talking German now'. So we'd probably have learned to drink your tasteless lager, never tell a joke and reeaally learn how to follow a rule.
@Damo "Show the world the meaning of freedom and humanity" ? Lol!!!!!!!!!! You only have to look at the results of today, you can't walk around London without getting stabbed, look at what happened to those girls at Rotherham......London has one of the highest murder rates in Europe. If the men who stormed the beaches like they did over 70 years ago knew the end result today, they would had told their respective commanding officers to shove it.
@@Desertduleler_88 bit of an overreaction mate given over 9million people walk around London on a daily. Crime rates are high and unacceptable I grant you, but thank the tory government and their cuts to the services for that not multiculturalism. Biggest scumbags I know are white chavs who'd rob you blind without giving a toss and don't know the meaning of work.
@@yahulwagoni4571 There's a documentary on the making of Battle of Britain on youtube somehere. The ME 109's and HE 111's came from Spain as they were still in service with the Spanish air force, but the HE 111's had Merlins for engines
Think fellow pilots would be cold to newcomers until they had proved themselves as everyone relied on each other to watch their backs and didn’t need weak links. That and their life expectancy was low so no point getting too close.
Brilliant movie ... made even better because it doesn't portray the Americans winning it all by themselves. My father was in the R.A.F. & served during the war, so I can relate to this movie so well.
I am an American and anyone that knows anything about the war knows that we needed each other to win the war. I am curious to what movies you might be referring to specifically. I am not doubting what you are saying, but I would like to know which movies. I really liked The Longest Day where the Brits used Rupert to fool the Germans. There is no doubt that the English were very inventive in their methods of warfare. The Barrage balloon was even somewhat effective against various attacks such as the V1 flying bombs.
I think if you looked at the ROH you will find that there were some American pilots in the Battle of Britain as well polish the checks and Israelis they all did there bit to defend this country I for one am truly grateful for their efforts and sacrifice
@@grahampayne6221 Nobody's denying that. I was sarcastically referring to one particular Hollywood movie. And by the way, it's Czechs, not checks. Checks are what we should use to make sure we've spelled words correctly before posting.
@@rutabagasteu Some veterans like the commander helped the rookies like Simon, but quite a few either looked down on them like here, or avoided them as being bad luck. And that behaviour was found in all armed forces, certainly in WW2.
A lot of voice procedure came from those long-winded exchanges... Received and understood....became Roger Will Comply....became Wilco And if you roger a message you should wilco....you get a head slap
I remember watching that movie, and if Im not mistaken, then it is also where I have one of my own favourite scene. When the squadron that had some of the polish pilots attacked some german planes, and when one of those polish pilots need to jump out of his plane, then he landed in a field where some farmers took him as "captive" because they thought it was a german one. Later in the movie we see the same guy reading a book which was a dictionary to translate polish to english
It's real enough. Polish pilots who arrived in England to July 1940 picked up enough very basic English to handle the task. They had intensive English lessons right through to 1941. The biggest problem was in fact adapting to imperial measures : feet, miles per hour, gallons instead of metric meters, km and litres, as well as obsolete RAF tactics which they very soon learnt to ignore and fly the Polish/German way which was loose finger four approaching the battle and splitting to hunting pairs lead and wingman. That meant that a squadron would have 6 attackers with 6 backups, instead of the RAF 4 attackers and 8 wingmen. British officers ,all too often with zero personal air combat experience, assigned to Polish squadrons tried to impose the RAF tactics but learnt the hard way that their experienced Polish pilots knew a lot more about air combat.