Battle of the Star Wars Theories 

this man simply doesn't miss

Praying to the RU-vid algorithm the fandom starts to recognize this channel

Your videos have been incredible thus far, truly incredible. You, Rick Worley, Nerdonymous, Style is Substance, Anomaly Inc. and So Uncivilised. and many others in this cinephile community of Star Wars fans have all done superb jobs in defending the art of George Lucas in recent years. I can't express how refreshing your approaches are, simply taking the side of the auteur, appreciating them, analysing their decisions, and through that analysis, breathing new life into and helping others understand said appreciation. Thank you, with all my heart.

I write scifi music and have subconciously embedded these theories into multiple albums, thank you george for embedding such powerful foundations into star wars, its made me who i am creatively

It's insane how Star Wars ring theory validades my favourite watching ordem, which is: IV, I, II, V, VI, III So it's C', A, B, B', A', C It still maintains the mirror aspect of the cronological and release orders

With finding this channel, I feel like I found RU-vid’s best kept secret

What an incredible synopsis of the two theories. To quote Vader "we need not be adversaries" and I truly enjoyed how you presented them to mesh with eachother rather than oppose one another. My perspective after watching is actually that these two theories should coexist, and it would be best described as a "mirror theory." The plots of the movies correlate, but have opposing arcs, they mirror eachother in a 1:1 fashion.. 123, 456, same plot, but in reverse. Dialectics. The mirror image of abc, is cba. Relate this to the 2 trilogies.. 123, 654. 1 correlates to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4. Ring theory. Theyre a mirror of eachother.

This is the best piece of secondary star wars media i think i've ever seen

12:41 I nearly spit out my drink.

This man has put forth more effort in this single video then Disney did in their entire trilogy and all of their spinoffs

It’s amazing to me that so many Star Wars fans don’t even know about or even notice this pattern.

I’m glad you mentioned that Hegel didn’t actually use those terms haha

Great video, only issue I have with the dialectics theory is that by including the Sequels it treats Star Wars as one continuous creative narrative. But with Lucas not being involved in the final trilogy and Disney bringing in an almost completely new team, there isn't enough continuation between 1-6 and 7-9. So any theory that tries to encompass all 9 films is going to be artificially imposed by default, simply because there wasn't a singular creative force behind all of the films.

How would hypothetical George's sequels with Darth Maul fit into ring theory and is it possible to reverse-engineer scenes based on it?

I've been learning so much about Star Wars and storytelling from your videos. Thank you for making them. Can't wait for the next one!

I just discovered your channel, watched the series of videos you made on Star Wars. Your videos really stand out from the other essays on RU-vid. Amazing Work 👌

Thanks for watching! Find me on Letterboxd letterboxd.com/jeshuam/ Instagram instagram.com/josh_from_xboxlive Patreon patreon.com/Josh_from_xbolive Twitter twitter.com/josh_from_xbox

this is a great video! as someone who's heard both the ring theory and the dialectics theory, I think you did a great job of explaining both of them! thanks for making stuff like this ---- also just realized the way i probably heard the dialectics theory was from your Skywalker Arc videos so thanks for that too. Wishing you all the luck and success possible for your channel and creative pursuits.

outstanding!

Not only does it match up 1-6, 2-5, and 3-4 via the ring structure, but it also matches up 1-4, 2-5, and 3-6; and how it matches up one way 'rhymes' the inverse way in the other match up scheme. And it isn't just shots that match up, but themes, ideas, etc. For instance, Ep. I ending of Qui-Gon pyre scene clearly matches Ep. VI; Anakin lost a father, but Luke gained his father back. I is negative, and VI is positive. Now, the celebration scenes clearly match from Ep. I and Ep. IV; but since it is a 'forward rhyme,' I becomes 'positive; and IV becomes 'negative.' That is, in Ep. I, they won and all seems be well, but evil is lurking in the background, while in Ep. IV, the good is lurking in the background whilst the Empire still is in control and will retaliate very soon The 'positive' and 'negative' don't refer to what is good or bad, but, rather, the polarities of the rhyming scheme; "It is like poetry; it rhymes." George Lucas is an absolute genius that created the greatest movie saga of all time, by far

I loved the ring theory essay but you've elevated it into a different realm. Amazing video dude.

Stellar vidoe man! The light that your shining on the structure of star wars is making me think alot about writing and story telling. It's becoming a large influence on the stories that I write.

Great essay dude, would watch again. 10/10

Always a welcome surprise to see you upload. Stellar stuff as usual; keep ‘em coming! Can never get enough of these intellectual SW analyses

"Incredibly wise and enigmatic," goodness. Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm sure that word choice came from my comments on your videos thus far, and I have to thank you for the space to think and express myself while interacting with your structure of ideas. In that vein! I'm glad you've mentioned the RLM criticisms. Both you an Mike Stolklasa have influenced my thoughts on the prequels. You've managed to knock over a number of Mike's arguments, but there are still some I see validity in. By addressing ring theory, and showing Mike's comments about the opening of The Phantom Menace, it struck me, before you started your narration, that the opening shot of TPM was supposed to mirror the landing on Endor and that the usurpation of exceptions were very intentional. Over the last few months, I've come to see Mike Stolklasa's criticisms as holding water regarding the process of film making, rather than his points about the writing. His comments are safe, but I think the kernel that comes through is synthesized well with your observations about Jurassic Park's use of CGI. Red Letter Media does produce their own (lovingly) schlock, so it makes sense that Mike's criticisms are derived from his practice. In the same way, you're a writing consultant and have shown a light on what the prequels have done right from a writing perspective. While Jurassic Park excelled in the use of CGI, I do think the prequel trilogy did itself a disservice by trying to capture images which were only possible through CG, or at least putting a coat of CG paint on things. I think a good example of this is the submarine used to travel to Theed. They made a practical model! But it doesn't blend seamlessly with the underwater scenes, we can tell which is which. To me, that reached a point where it became a distraction which stopped some people from finding the strong structure of the films and their homilies with the original trilogy. It becomes an invitation for criticism rather than an invitation for contemplation. The scenes added to a the 97 re-releases of A New Hope certainly add to the overall narrative, but people keep getting caught up in their presentation. The well thought out structure of the prequels comes through with repeat viewings, unless someone is trained in, or familliar with, writing. But I think a stronger film would have been able to nail those points sooner for those who aren't. A lot of that can just come down to not liking things which are different, in the same way a lot of people didn't like the operatic elements of Empire when compared to the realism they felt from A New Hope. Sometimes people just aren't going to be able to accept the differences. Maybe this is just me showing my own ass as an organizer, but I need to be able to show people my argument from the start rather than having to set up Marxist analysis to explain the things that workers see in their every day lives. In a world as sick as ours, trying to communicate high philosophy in the most condensed and easy to understand way possible is an incredibly difficult task. It takes a lot more thought and effort than anything I've done in my life. It makes me respect how well Lucas did overall, because a little bit of secondary explanation goes a long way. But in that regard, I see the prequels are high art while the original trilogy is high art for the commons. The original trilogy was Lucas' brilliance strained through the sieve of other film makers, while I do think he held much more creative control over the prequels. They are raw Lucas, and in the same way that A New Hope was a film "saved in the editing room," the prequels didn't land for a lot of people because of that raw brilliance. Ultimately, I'm not saying Lucas should have done anything different, I now appreciate them for what they are and the control Lucas had, but this is also me reflecting on how I've seen these films over the years, since I first saw the re-releases in the theaters at the age of 6. I frankly didn't notice the differences until I was old enough to spot the CGI, but then I couldn't unsee it. Reaching adulthood, I game mastered a couple RPG sessions set in the Star Wars universe. It gave me the opportunity to sat down to think about the structure of the prequels and figure out what I would change given the opportunity. The answer I came away with was simply "not much", but the presentation was what always stuck in my craw. I appreciate your exploration of Jurassic Park's preponderance of the future of CGI, because it does hold a lot of water when discussing the prequels, even if that creative control added a lot to Lucas' overall vision. Anyway, a lot to think about as always with your uploads, thanks for the thought fodder and the shout out!

Videos like this keep showing us why the sequels are rotting harder than a carcass during noon in the African Savanna.

Episode 1: Padme wears a headdress in the senate with a similar looking symbol to the rebel alliance insignia in front of her head. Episode 3: Padme wears a headdress in the senate with a similar looking symbol to the rebel alliance insignia behind her head.

Well!

4th dimensional star wars is distilled Star Wars

These videos are completely awesome! Brilliant, creative and intellectual analyses of cinema I would otherwise never had cared about.

Phenomenal video, keep doing what ur doing

The design of the world between worlds SO FAR looks like a mirror and a portal.

I like it, but George's intent was never to make any further films. He'd completed his story, and the only reason he even wrote a 7 onwards trilogy was because he knew whoever he sold the series to would make a new trilogy. And yet, they threw that out.

With Lucas's sequel trilogy in mind, couldn't a chiastic structure work well too? Episode 6 mirrors 4 Episode 7 would mirror 3 Episode 8 would mirror 2 Episode 9 would mirror 1 Episode 5 would be the odd one out, as it's the turning point of the story where the hero from the first half (Anakin/Vader) duels the hero from the second half (Luke) for the first time.

16:30 Senator is indeed hot

Your channel is phenomenal. Can’t wait to see it blow up!

It is wonderful how you uphold the works of George Lucas and Mike Klimo! That is so considered of you! Thank you so very much for defending George Lucas and the true nature of Star Wars (I-VI)!!! Keep doing these kind of videos!

Darth Vader takes the identity of Anakin Skywalker from Luke Skywalker in the form of his Jedi lightsaber, Luke Skywalker takes the identity of Darth Vader from Anakin Skywalker in the form of his Sith lightsaber.

I love how fart jokes just strengthen this argument 😂

Very well done, yet again. Please stop breaking my understanding of something I thought I understood twenty-plus years ago. You are a dangerous individual, or are you.

Mr plinkett would say otherwise

Such a GREEEEEAT essay, thanks man

Enjoyed this one! Occasionally an individual example was a hard sell to me (like 12:10, where the connection of the Ewoks scene to Han/Leia torture in 4&5 is reaching a bit, or 16:25, where the examples are only related in a very abstract way), but I like your overall theory and am now convinced Lucas was going for dialectic style connections within each trilogy

this video is pure gold

19:59 And the sequels should have been both an ascent and descent for the grandchildren of Anakin.

Absolutely love all of your star wars breakdowns

this is real star wars theory🔥🔥🔥

Fantastic. Gave me a new way to.understand Star Wars ❤

My lord what an incredible video and observation.

It’s like poetry it rhymes

Oh hey wasn't expecting a vid on this! This should be interesting.

It was about time that somebody called out Hello Greedo, man, he´s so pretentious and condescending

This is so good

Your previous star wars videos were very nice, genuine, honest and full of thought. I have send them to my starwars pals to check them out as you truly did bring new light on some of the characters. And it pains me to say it, but this one is wishful thinking and looking for stuff that is not there. Looking for anything that is resembling a an intent but is just random seaming similarity. Or is obvious intentional similarity (e.g. repeating senteces during the whole saga - "I have bad feeling about this"). During my stuides I have spend so much time listening to academics talking about significant culture pieces and this slipery slope way of thinking is as tempting as the dark side is. Trying to looks for some even more deep and hidden meaning. And what ends up happing is letting your own imagination and creativity to take over. Many incredibly knowledgeable people I respect have fallen for this type of thinking at occasions. It wasnt permanent and I dont think it will be here as well. I just had to say it, becuase your previous videos were so well done. This video needs disclamer at the start syaing that this videos is entering hypotetical space with some interesting ideas. But that it is not trying to actually comment on the piece. Thanks for all the work you put in your videos. I will be looking forward for the next one. And Im sorry if it sounds harsh, Im not ENG native. Now when I read it back it may sound a bit harsh. P.S. I never told this to my professors on the uni. Even tho they were one of the most knowledgeable folks in my country. But I am telling to you a) its anonymous:) b) because we share same passion for star wars which is somethign my professors and I didnt have back in uni.

*Josh, what do you think about the Star Wars series and films made by Disney? They don't seem like stories to me, but rather lifeless content made to entertain and sell subscriptions.* *By **_always_** bringing classic and old characters, it seems to me that they have enormous difficulty/inability to let go of the "old". Respect the past, but don't live in it. Lucas himself did this in the prequels.*

I think the reason ring theory is "closed" and kinda "limited" is because ring theory is essentially analyzing what exists. Also, as you say, its more "form" based. I do like your triadic dialectical theory; but your dialectical theory almost necessitates a sequel trilogy by george. So while we can acknowledge george may have set a dialectic frame work in place, ring theory is still a useful tool for visual analysis. Kinda reaching your conclusion of how both are useful. What's interesting is that this dialectic idea i think almost formalizes George's Visual Jazz idea. Essentially; instead of a more formalized theory, i think its more appropriate to compare that George is treating his story telling of star wars as jazz performances; each narrative and visual element is a note. He'll play with the structure for different goals; he'll tweak and change his previous performances to match the goal of the current complete view. This also explains some interesting "rule breaks" guys like Rick Worely brings up; (ep 2's upside down opening and ep 5's non-group shot closing)

Man, Hegel is the best. Isn't reading Hegel just the best? Your world opens up after reading that man. He is so important to understand - after all, he *is* the last philosopher of history, and essential to understanding and mastering the greater thinker that came after him, his student: Mr. Marx.

You’re the best. But like… why not “Duel of the Star Wars Theories”?

This is clearly a very well thought out video, but it seems clear to me that George didn't deliberately abide by either of these theories. He included countless parallel visuals and lines on purpose, but because there are so many, people can put them together in many different ways. There are patterns all over the place, but that doesn't mean they all were designed to connect in accordance to a particular structured model. Add to that how humans brain naturally find patterns, so if you assume something is true, you can always squeeze out patterns to confirm it. Many similarities are purely the result of human imagination rather than deliberate artistic intent, which is easier to get away with with star wars because so much of it is intentional, but that doesn't mean everything is.

16:32 Yes, she is :D

”It’s like poetry, they rhime.”- George Lucas

What music do you use at 8:20? Sounds like jrpg

umm spoiler warning at 16:48 for uncle palps having an apprentice...

Woah. Do you think they did all that on purpose?

George has stated many times that the stories are cyclical and like and it rhymes

okay, i really enjoyed the video but i don't get one thing the ring theory doesnt really make sense because as you say it has only room for 6 movies but george lucas had plans for the next 3 episodes after return of the jedi. Maybe I didn't get something and all I'm saying is wrong.

Excellent video, hate being this guy though ronto ≠ dewback

I'm curious, ignoring the sequels and what everyone says Lucas's sequel trilogy would be, what the sequel trilogy would look like by simply following Dialectics and ring theory

swag vid

The ring theory is not a theory it’s a fact. Based on the writing ms of Joseph Campbell and other philosophers like Robert Moore and Robert Bly, it’s normal to have in our subconscious repetitive storylines and archetypes of heros and anti heros based on the thousands of years of evolution and storytelling, from epic or religious stories told to us in schools to simple and tiny folklore bed time stories Lucas studied this under Joseph Campbell in his mythology class in college this is why he nailed it the best. But even other storytellers like James Cameron or Nolan or Tolkien who probably didn’t study these things nailed it too because the earlier reason I mentioned, evaluation and cultural stories both epic and folklore. And because of that reason I’m selling to bet that half of the ring theory was not even planned, Lucas just did it subconsciously, repeating things like poetry and making it rhyme unknowingly. That’s the beauty of it half of it was done intentionally the other just resembles the mature and cultivated part of Lucas’ subconscious Anyways the force awakens was great and was everything I hope it would be 😅🤗

I'm gonna be real; including the sequels in this makes no sense; they weren't created by George Lucas and therefore cannot be part of his scheme. The only real star wars that exists is Ep. I-VI Why would you even want to include the sequels? This is look trying to append Rings of Power to Tolkien's works; it just makes no sense

I think all these theories are distractions that Prequel Fans needs to stop wasting time on. I love the Prequel on their own, as stand alone movies independent of their relationship to any other films with Star and Wars in the title, in fact I really don't even like the original trilogy. But I don't have the skills to make Video Essays however so I keep hoping someone will start defending the Prequels on their own merits instead of on the merits of how much they reference other stuff.

I love Star Wars as much as the next guy but this is an over analysis of the movies. Yeah something might be intentional but others are just for continuity. In reality most of the Star Wars movies are okay (not great) but entertaining movies. It’s not bladerunner

This is worse than Anakins Thesis

Ring theory is nonsense and you are coping.