Thank you, Tom, for explaining why the rudder should be left as is. I agree, the chance of doing serious damage to this artifact isn't worth the effort to "correct" the rudder position. As you pointed out, this really isn't an insurmountable issue. As the tow to the yard from the Park demonstrated, the turning moment imparted by the frozen rudder is easily dealt with by experienced Pilots and tug crews, especially since they knew what to expect from the experience gained during the 1988 tow.
The rudder reminds me of something. I'm a trucker so drive long hours. On the radio the other day there was a discussion on what drives people insane. It's a key insight into the human condition what I'm about to tell you. One person rang in and said people driving along using their wipers at a speed too fast for for the conditions. This opened the flood gates of similarly minded people to contact the radio station. It was absolutely hilarious listening to people on talkback and the presenter reading out texts, with a petty grievance like this exalted to the likes of veritable constitutional crisis. Many people can't stand 'asymmetry' it seems - it rocks their world.
What a great explanation on how the Ruder works. I saw on the Texas battleships RU-vid channel that even if they wanted to move the rudder they're not going to because that was its last call and position before being put in San jacinto
Nice video - the rudder you see is called a balanced rudder, the portion in front of the vertical shaft helps to reduce the loads on the steering gear. X-Aircraft Carrier builder
Thank you so much for posting this! I was especially thrilled to see those pictures of the rudder being fitted to sister ship New York, BB34. My grandfather worked at the Brooklyn Navy Yard during the construction of the New York, and there is a possibility (though very small) that one of those workers could actually be him - imagine that!
Appreciate your insightful explanation of the rudder situation. And yeah, it makes total sense that all of the pivot points would be seized from decades of water exposure. Some things are best left as is.
Thank you for the awesome explaination of why the rudder should be left as-is, like you said we'd be potentially opening up a HUGE can of worms if dig into the rudder. Aloha............
Fantastic video! Great explanation of the rudder assembly, its installation and operation. Yeah, there's a LOT of other things that need attention more than the rudder not being centered, even if unlimited funding were available. Just getting her fixed up so she'll be watertight for another 40-50 years is a big enough job as it is without monkeying around with the rudder.
Excellent presentation Tom. Great information sequence. The illustrations were essential for a clear understanding of its assembly, how it operated and why straightening should not be done. Very interesting about the beef fat.
Thanks, Chuck! Yeah, there is a small note on the plans that call for mutton or beef tallow to be used to fill the interstices. I was pretty happy when I saw it. Btw, they apparently did the same thing inside the prop hubs. When they opened it up during the recent restoration, it looked nothing like tallow and didn't have a smell after 80 years. It took some research for Travis and crew to figure out what the nasty looking powder was.
Excellent video Tom. This should hopefully quell all the comments from people who think it should be as easy as applying some WD-40 and cranking over the helm a few turns.
At first i too thought why not correct the rudder issue. I knew there be a cost involved to do this but still leaned towards correcting it but after watching your video which i say was very well done. I changed my mine Once again logical reasoning and knowing more data about the rudder and what's involved and the risk of losing a historical part of the ship. The correct decision was made not to change the position of the rudder. Plus, the money could be spent for more important repairs to put her in a better condition for the future, Thanks again for the in formable video.
First of all... Thank You for a great video... 😊 Second... The "Battleship Texas" organization did post a video when she first went in the dry dock and addressed the issue of the Rudders position... they said that they have no desire to correct it as it is in the position of its last given command before she was decommissioned therefore leaving it as she was the last time she was in service... Again thank you for a great video I look forward to more.. Jon
Всем привет✌️. Очень хорошее видео. Четко , доступно , со схемами и с фотографиями👍. Даже я с моим уровнем знания языка , кажется понял🙂. Есть один способ помочь повернуть руль)))) Много, очень много WD-40😂😂😂. А если серьезно - молодцы , что восстанавливаете ветерана👍👍. Удачи в этой нелёгкой работе👍
Thankyou Tom! What a great video. hopefully this will settle the discussions and put the whole " straighten the rudder" to bed. But on the other hand it's got the attention the ship needs as well.
Excellent video and for the most part I do agree with you. My only thoughts on the rudder are that if Battleship Texas had an ABSOLUTE guaranteed permanent new home with an indoor museum like the Battleship Wisconsin's Nauticus setup; then I would suggest removing the rudder and preserving it as part of the indoor exhibits. That would preserve it and explain its construction, function, and show its size to visitors. But of course this type of thing takes oodles of bags of cash to just get off the ground.
Battleship Texas's curator said that the rudder is turned that way because it was the last rudder input ordered when she was brought to Texas as a memorial and that they will never straiten it out.
I am aware of what the V.P of Operations said. The point of my video is to show why it is impractical beyond that and also give a detailed description of the rudder system.
A really good series of videos on the restoration thanks 👍as for the rudder I agree I remember in 1989 removing the port rudder of HMS Fearless in Devonport dockyard it was jammed solid again slightly off centre and apparently had been like it for some time before entering dry dock poor maintenance I’m afraid at one stage we had eight one hundred ton jacks between the hull and the rudder with heat torches top and bottom and it still didn’t budge a suggestion to use explosives was made 😂eventually it went but the initial shock felt like the ship jumped on its dock blocks it only moved a couple of millimetres but that was enough👍 my advice leave it as is 🇬🇧🇺🇸
such an interesting video on the construction of the rudder and use of timber to fill the voids making it both strong and prevent internal erosion, such a shame it was left so long to flood out, another of those oops stories, someone should have been shouted at, but it be nice to clean out the flooded areas now she is dry - work to make her rudder work again does seem pointless from both the angles of seeing below water and her sea worthiness, she not going nowhere in a hurry, but lets hope from the outside, the rudder won't drop off - there are examples dotted around the world where these issues have been addressed, either by dry docking or set it in concrete
Really awesome explanation Tom! Wow! As one of my former co-workers used to say, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. 😉 Leaving the rudder as is remains fully justified, now with a reasonably in-depth description.
She is a amazing piece of history that we as the USA don't need to inflict any further damage to her just for 14 degrees, SHE'S EARNED IT! Stay strong BB35 we need you.
Great explanation of the rudder construction and why it would ill-advised to try and center-line the rudder. Thanks! Bill Carter, crewman USS Texas (CGN-39)
That was so interesting. Respect to the engineers and technicians of those days. I wonder if it was cranked to the side in an attempt to leave the seal in a tighter condition. In any case we'll have to satisfy our need for symmetry somewhere else because this thing is not moving
It's unlikely since the rotating components and seals are all concentric and aligned. It is possible that all they did was tightened the stuffing box all of the way once the ship was at her final resting place with the hope that would be sufficient. If you look at one of the side views, you will see a support for the main screw and rams beside the crosshead assembly. There is a shaft and a hand wheel that extends from it into the crosshead. That is the adjustment. If that is all they did was crank that down, leaking was inevitable.
That answered my question, "Why not removed it? " Too heavy, too much work and costly. So, it is best to leave it alone. Anyway, it is going back under the water, no one except divers going to see it.
Depending on how badly the turning gear is destroyed, it might be possible to get it working manually and straighten the rudder after taking out the welds. At least that wouldn't have to worry about damaging the rudder itself, but of course it would be even more work. That assumes of course the screws aren't so badly damaged they can't be freed to move. I'm pretty sure there would have been an emergency steering position in the rudder compartment to do "last ditch" manual steering, but I have no idea of any of that equipment is left. Not that I'm suggesting doing any of that. It would not be simple or cheap.
Props and shafts were removed 10 Jan - 17 Mar 1948, drydock, Norfolk Navy Yard in prep for the deactivation and subsequent move to Texas. One prop is still with the ship. It was moved to storage in prep for drydocking. The brass has been cleaned and it looks really good.
My guess was 15 degrees seeing it at a distance, not bad. While it was obvious to me, even without knowing all the intricacies of the steering gear, that centering it would be prohibitive if not practically impossible, I have wondered exactly how it ended up in that position. The curator mentioned it was the final helm order, which it certainly could have been. Perhaps it was free enough to be pushed on its own when the ship originally settled into the mud. Or, I suppose it could just possibly have been wrenched to that angle when the 1988 crew was struggling to drag it out backward from its decades old mud suction cup. Doesn't really matter but one wonders.
^^^ THIS STATEMENT IS CORRECT! ^^^ Anybody that watches the actual ships channel would know that. They will never center it because of the historic value.
@@stevenrossman265 actually, that’s not what Travis said in his first tour of the ship’s bottom after dry dock. He stated it was the last rudder order documented and it would stay that way at least through this dry docking. Didn’t rule out possible correcting it sometime in the future should the means become available.
I watched the RU-vid documentary that said the rudder on the battleship Texas is put in that position because that was the last position it was turned when it was an act of duty And that was just to old and It had been stuck in that position so long it wouldn't turn anyway
No, I won't be shooting any videos of the ship in dry dock. While I have occasional access to the dry dock to help give tours, I am not allowed to shoot videos. Battleship Texas Foundation has exclusive rights to that with the idea of creating videos as part of their fund raising efforts. I am perfectly fine with that.
Superb video and technical content as always, Tom! Are the series of drawings you show in the first minutes of the video available to the public? Thanks!
Thanks. The historic drawings of the rudder and turning gear can be found on line in the Texas State Library- tsl.access.preservica.com/uncategorized/SO_348d9b9c-5c26-433e-b2cc-5fdf49787c4e/
There is nothing that I have seen that documents the reason for their removal. My opinion is that it was primarily done to make the ship more maintenance free. With shafts in place, it would be impossible to prevent leaks at their stuffing boxes where they enter the hull. The easy solution was to do what they did, remove the props, pull the shafts and seal the openings. It could be argued that one reason do it was to demilitarize the ship. However, I have seen many documents that describe conditions applied to the ship's donation to the state of Texas, but none addressed demilitarizing her or requiring that the ship not be operated. However, the Navy's work to prepare her to be a museum included sealing all through-hull openings and sea chests, and capping the smoke stack. That was done to reduce or eliminate water intrusion, and at the same time effectively made her inoperable.
@@tomscotttheolderone364 That's what I was thinking, given the issues with water intrusion at the rudder shaft. One would think that if the Navy wanted to fully demilitarize the ship, they would have taken all of the militarily useful equipment, such as the radar systems - even if they were already obsolete due to the fast movement of technology.
Very insightful! I didn't know that the rudder was filled with wood, I always thought it was just a bunch of metal like the ship's armor. I wonder what condition that wood is in inside of it after all of these years. Did they build the rudder like this to save weight or make it easier to steer?
Steering effort was primarily a matter of resistance to the flow of water, not weight. Regardless, its design was primarily due to weight and cost savings. There's no reason to put steel into it if the job it has to perform doesn't require it. So, the cast steel frame does the vast majority of the structural work. The steel ribs help form the curved shape of the rudder and the wood is simply a filler that reduces any tendency the plating may have to dish in.
IF the money could be raised, it would be great to dismount the rudder, weld a cap over the opening and then display the rudder on shore, next to the ship so visitors could see its size. it wouldnt really be any different than the ship not having any screws and boy, could it set some people's OCD at ease since its not centered up...
Very interesting video on the rudder and I understand very well why it will not be touched or fixed. Out of curiosity how much this rudder weigh? As it is really massive! Again you are very informative with your knowledge on this wonderful battleship 👍👍👍
Perhaps the rudder should simply be removed and displayed where visitors may see it. Fairing over the attachment points and eliminating the stuffing box would be a great way to preclude any future water intrusion.
It's a crying shame they didn't make more effort to keep the steering gear room from flooding.A long time ago they could have disconnected the hydraulic and electrical steering and left the manual steering intact while having a bilge pump to keep the water out of the steering gear room that came in through the rudder shaft.
I was thinking that after removing the welds and lubing basically everything, Disconnect the Rams, hookup some chain falls to the crosshead and slowly but surely shift the rudder. (Kinda like the last resort to steer the ship after battle damage takes out all other systems....)
After not moving for more than 74 years, it's very likely that the pintles and rudder head have fused solid. No amount of lubricant will help that, even if you could get to them. Confirming that one way or the other would be very expensive and possibly destructive. It isn't worth any of that since the rudder is never seen 99% of the time and creates little problem when towing.
Okay, but why is rudder not centered to begin with? Why didn't they center the rudder when they retired the ship? Before the rudder and gears spent decades rusting in place.
