Battlestar Galactica | The Assassination of Admiral Cain 

a amazing actor

Tricia Helfer is an incredible actress. I had no idea.

I'm sorry but both he and Starbuck where acting like the most suspicious people in the galaxy. As soon as he did that I would be like, "What? Where you about to shoot me or something?"

@@Specter5053 Completely agree, but it doesn’t make Fisk’s reactions any less amusing. also, I’m pretty sure Cain was suspicious, I wouldn’t be surprised if I died my hair at least an inkling that something was going on. in both cases, pointing it out might trigger the event to happen, The Fisk had a better chance of succeeding because he had all those loyal Marines in the CIC

@@Specter5053 Pretty sure Adama and his core crew were expecting that, just like Cain suspected Starbuck. One of the great parts of that scene was Adama and Cain seeing the lose/lose scenario they were in and both pulling back.

@@guruntbangoo5686 Fisk's relief was so great; he & Adama both knew what they'd stepped back from, and were sharing an unspoken "thank god we didn't tip the fleet into chaos." Starbuck's reaction was more of a private coming down of "oh thank god I didn't have to shoot my mentor who just told me she was proud of me and then get killed." (Katee Sackhoff was amazing, though).

@@guruntbangoo5686 I was wondering about Starbuck staying right behind Cain, for no apparent reason after talking to Adama, and Cain apparently 'not' noticing. - Your comment made me think Cain may have been _trying_ to get Starbuck to attempt killing her. - There's a Japanese story about a samurai ordered to kill an old friend, possibly his now emperor. The target, aware of the plot, asked his potential assassin to hold his sword as a ploy to draw him out, or test his loyalty. - The assassin 'broke', admitted his guilt and begged mercy, IIRC he was forgiven.

Oh yeah, anyone who lost a friend due to açai ‘s incompetence too I image there was probably a few decent souls disgusted by Gina’s treatment and were will to let her get some measure of justice and put the mad dog down

Yes, and some of her crew probably wanted to kill her as well, as she seemed to hold them together not by the true leadership methods of respect and capable decision making, but rather through fear alone. For example, with the story of how Cain had ordered the mass murder of civilians that would have been critical to rebuilding the human race, even stripping their vessels of vital parts and then destroying them shows how she was leading humanity to its destruction. Whereas Adamma realized the value of the civilians to the preservation of the human race, how they could be used also as a potential manpower pool for his military, rebuild their recently destroyed infrastructure, and more importantly have some of the civilian ships be converted into auxiliary warships that would give his fleet further protection, Cain disregards all of these logical points in favor of a mad single ship campaign that would in the long run have resulted in her crew's demise. For if she had not accidently found Adamma when she did, she would have wound up being decisively defeated by the Cylons, as they would have been able to figure out her attack patterns and turned the tables on the Pegasus.

She also executed one of her officers in plain sight of everyone on deck. Woman was bound to get axed at some point.

Yeah, made you wanna puke with its awfulness?

Lol, how was this a punch in the gut? She totally deserved to die.

Not true. As someone who watch the original, this show was hard to watch. I agree the last season however saved it.

😮

only a fool is not afraid too make the great leap

Exceptional!

Such a shame that Everything Else, on every other show he’s scored, has been bland Muzak. At least his work here was always superb.

@@vercoda9997 Completely agree. The complexity of the orchestration is simply on another level compared to Da vincis demons, agent of shield. God of war was quite decent.

"All that evil needs to survive is for good men to do nothing". At some point one of her officers should have walked up behind her and blown her brains out. I know, it wouldn't be conducive to the plot line but that's what should have happened. The first time she terminated or left survivors behind someone should have put her down. Because that didn't happen her officers are complicit in every one of her actions and if I were Adama I wouldn't trust one of them after her death. Assign them to some menial tasks somewhere in the fleet and keep an eye on them, always. If they don't like that then put them in an airlock and open the outer doors.

The XO didn't question an illegal order, he questioned an unwise one. Cain's original plan was basically sound, i.e. hit & run, but the script called for her to forget that temporarily and fight this particular battle to the bitter end. Once Pegasus was sufficiently damaged for plot purposes and had raided the conveniently discovered second civilian fleet, the script had her revert to sound tactics again until Pegasus met Galactica. This flip flop flip of her character always seemed like lazy writing to me. Side note: I recall but can't find a RU-vid video on BSG lore claiming that 1) Pegasus was something of a white elephant in the Colonial fleet, its self-sufficiency bought with an unacceptable reduction in combat potential; 2) Cain was an unstable officer assigned by the top brass to the white elephant in an effort to kill two embarrassments with one stone, so to speak.

@@Gamble661 With limited resources and manpower you want Adama to watch the Pegasus' crew? I can see how you'll never become a fleet commander. I rather have Cain in charge than have some clown like you leading the way. No thank you.

@@GoLakers3900 Aw, a keyboard warrior....that's cute. But you're right, I'll never be a fleet commander because this is fiction halfwit!

Quite Grecian in it's tragedy.

Yeah, really captures the military dog attitude.

She deserved it!

Hard to regain what you had none of to begin with.

I think Cain then stood down as Adama had allowed her a chance to gain a measure of vengeance against the Cylons. Also to keep a deadly asset like Starbuck happy is also a plus.

That was the whole point of her being killed off! Yes, as you said, she "regained some of her humanity back", but by then it was already too late - there was no more redemption for the things she had done. While, yes, one of the show's themes was about second chances & hope & faith in humans and all of that - they could have written her to stay on the show and become good and try to atone for her sins, basically making her character a mellow cliché - but that wouldn't have played with the grander point of the show: *man versus machine* - do Cylons have souls, and is Man really better than the machine? Which was culminated in Adama's line, "surviving isn't enough, one has to be worthy"; yes, she was a survivor, but she did horrible, inhumane things to survive, so in the end she wasn't worthy. She managed to save her ship & crew, yes, but at the cost of so many other lives; and you could argue semantics, the whole "needs of the many vs. the few", that she did what was *logical* from a military leader's viewpoint - save as much resources, prioritize only people who have use, save the battleship, all so that they could eventually retaliate against the Cylons - but the larger point of the story was, as in that line, what makes one worthy of surviving? Which is why that scene with the Six was so good, because right then and there they both knew the answer to who between them was more worthy to live, no more words needed to be said, she knew she deserved to be killed, especially by that particular Six, who, compared to her, didn't do anything arguably wrong - though, yes, her kind practically committed genocide, but it was already a matter of *individuality* - so, it goes back to that question of what the difference between Man and Cylon was, and since it was already well established that Cylons had sentience, then the answer was that apart from them being built differently on the inside, nothing, really. Both were capable of doing good & bad. And at that point, both sides had already done a lot of wrongs: Man enslaved Cylons, Cylons rebelled; Cylons almost killed out the entire human race; Man killed a lot of Cylons. The point being that both were equal in that regard - and the answer to the question of who deserved to survive was eventually made clear in the finale, that it's the best of mankind (and Cylonkind) that deserved to survive - and she just wasn't one of the best. Anyone who is capable of the things she was isn't - and that also plays in who between her & Adama was best to lead the rest of mankind to a new world (the answer to which is obvious). On a grander scale, that's the entire point of disasters and doomsdays, to bring out the best and the worst of mankind, to a degree where one would very clearly be distinguishable from the other - which is a concept that isn't just biblical, as it is one that's as old as man itself. Incidentally, that moment right before Six shot her and she flinched was so profoundly beautiful - she still acted all tough and mighty at the very end, but you could see it in her eyes, that for a moment, she finally felt what it was like to be at the other side of the gun and *really* have no choice. Which was her argument whenever justifying all the bad that she had done, that she "had no choice" - well, at that moment, she *really had* no choice. Poetic justice. Trust me, she "had to be killed off", it couldn't have gone done any other way. She's just one of those characters you write expressly to kill off.

@Fabian Kirchgessner While neither actually knew about the other's plot, it's safe to say that each suspected the other of planning such. And when Cain and Adama's "trusted man" appeared on the other's ship, it's safe to say that their suspicions were confirmed.

I honestly felt it was an extremely poor choice to do. She finally got a semblance of redemption.

"Corrupted, power hungry, and insane." Honestly, I don't believe that she was. Or, in that case, Adama was as well. Because Adama made exactly the same decisions as she did. They both had the "military comes before civilians, higher ranks must be obeyed" mindset that all of Colonial Fleet leadership shared. Hell, Adama even once couped the government just to cement his authority. Only, the old man always had someone at his side to change his mind - his son, Starbuck, president Roslin, Dualla... Cain had no one. And I think that this scene proves that they could come to terms, eventually.

Michele Forbes is a GODDESS ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

@@primkupat no point did Adama order suicidal attacks against obvious traps to satisfy his bloodlust or need for revenge unlike Cain who not only did that but murdered her XO and long time friend for refusing to go along with that madness. There’s nothing you can say that can convince me that Adama would have stripped the civilian ships and left them to die or have a POW GANGRAPED or tortured, hell he seems conflicted about “enhanced interrogation” back with Leoban. The idea that Adama would have ended up the same is grade A bullshit, his pinky or little toe has mire military sense that Cain ever had and certainly lacked her complete sadism

@@BattlestarZenobia I'm actually kinda pissed anyone in-universe defended her. Starbuck should go to Hell's ninth circle for saying that the Fleet is safer with someone who is suicidally vindictive at her own expense and the expense of countless others - gambling humanity's mere existence in each attack - and resorts to horrific deeds out of sheer spite.

@@UnendedGalaxy exactly! The only reason I can think of is a way of peacekeeping to her crew

I never thought that Cain and Adama knew. But I guess it really makes sense.

@Fabian Kirchgessner I disagree. The very lengthy pauses on *both* sides... that tension... the nervousness of both Cain's XO and Starbuck... unless you're a complete dunce, you would *know* something's up. Do you think Cain would be so foolish to let Starbuck on her bridge (or have her arrested/shot) - seeing how different Starbuck was acting in comparison to her give-no-F's-frak-'em attitude - unless she already had a plan to deal with her? Likewise, do you think Adama (or any crew coming and going) was *not* aware of the Pegasus marines and the XO's nervousness? And if they knew something was up, why wouldn't they act on it? In short... if one person starts shooting, EVERYONE starts shooting, lots of people die, and civilians get hurt (and, if it goes *real* bad, both Battlestars and their crews are essentially made ineffective). Politics and military operations are far more nuanced than simply shooting a gun. In this case, Adama KNOWS that Cain's too proud to show weakness to her subordinates. if you look real deep into that context, her actions are much like an 'occupation' of sorts, and showing her crew that she can strong-arm the fleet. Cain also had her men there as a reminder to Adama and the Galactica's crew of who was in charge. However, you could argue that Adama had Starbuck there as a reminder that he's onto her plans, and that he won't hesitate to act if she were to go through with it. And when the battle was over, when he said for Starbuck to stand down (with very few words and lots of hinting), it was his telling Cain to "Stand down, let's negotiate, and I'm willing to lower my gun first." By letting the situation speak for themselves, it lets Cain show that she's willing to be merciful when in reality she's likely sweating bullets and glad that she could step away from the situation with her pride intact. Of course Six had other plans, but that's beside the point. :P

@@TheEDFLegacy This comment was a great read!

@Fabian Kirchgessner I think she was to arrogant to even see the possibility. But also, the whole waiting until I call you thing and give you the code word.... I'd be...when the battle is over, just kill her. I have a hard time believing she had that much loyalty from her crew. Her circumcision scar started at the base of her neck and she was clearly deranged.

@Fabian Kirchgessner I think she underestimated everyone. She underestimated Roslin too. And the crews. She blindly assumed they'd all accept her kangaroo court. She loved people answering to her, but hated answering to Roslin. The hypocrisy of this...And she didn't see that Roslin saw the clear threat Cain was to the civilians. The original Cain was supposed to be a military genius and charismatic. This Cain was a military moron who didn't understand people at all, cared about no one. Thought she could take back the colonies with two ships, when Roslin's original order to Adama was the only one that made sense. Take who they had and run. This Cain thought only about hurting the enemy, while Roslin saw the military advantages of destroying the resurrection ship. They butchered this character. Cain acted like she had permanent PMS and was using a pinecone for a tampon.

It's always one step forward, one step back with Baltar. It was good she went and assassinated Cain, but then he goes and gives her a nuclear bomb for some reason!

NightDex, I would have liked to see how that reconciliation might have played out though, even for a relatively short period of time, before she was taken out, as was inevitable.

She refused to recognize the government as legitimate. To me, she'd never have left Colonial One. Even her argument of detached duty. What detached? Her civilian government is just outside her fraking window. She was committing treason.

@@cow_tools_ yeah I forgot why he did that, some bullshit about trust or something

Military types need to be put in their place or put down.

imo the nuking was more of a "you can't do anything to stop us" move as I remember that at some point even some cylons said it wasn't necessary.

You do realize that the evolution of the Cylons was pretty much the underlying theme of the show, right?

@@dwaynesmith942 .. good point. I got that impression and it bugged me that they were doing that

Like all religious zealots, they are hypocrites.

Was this in Razor?

@@joelellis7035 Yes. "Razor" had a lot of good stuff, including a snippet from the First Cylon War.

That's exactly what I thought. If that Six had any humanity in her, she would have undestood why Cain treated her the way she did once her Cylon identity was revealed.

@@joelellis7035 no it was actually from the third epsiode from when peaquess came on the show

That Six was chosen to "befriend" Admiral Cain for whatever mission she had, so technically, it's possible that she didn't actually like her.

Baltar F R A C K S... And he Fracks a lot

I used to think so too but the expanse is making me re-assess! What i am sure off is that BSG is one hell of a show & some solid entertainment.

@@adeosinowo3197 The last season of The Expanse was very bored and disappointing.

The moment she took off the headband it was over

Oh course she did

@@johniii8147 I think I want to view the scene again, but it seemed that there was a perspective from someone else in the CIC, who was also closely scrutinizing Starbuck's movements as she entered. Regardless, Cain had the self-possession to greet Starbuck with the words that she did, and to my ears, made them sound absolutely genuine. I understand that within the template of the series, Galactica had to be the focus, but I do regret that her character couldn't have been kept alive for a while longer, as there was so much to digest, I think. Certainly, she was going to be killed at some point, no question.

She absolutely knew why Starbuck was there.

@Fabian Kirchgessner No she was aware of the standoff between the between her and Adama. They both had their own plan and they both knew about it

Exactly what I thought. Otherwise, nothing else would make sense.... did she want Lee there so that they can both go out in a blaze of glory, shooting Cain and then being fired on and taken out by security?

To watch her back

Cain was over confident to the point of thinking she was untouchable due to her thinking ruling with an iron fist was going to keep her safe I am sure there were many crew members who would have gladly pulled the trigger themselves She was unable to handle the stress of the war and basically descended into madness becoming the exact thing she was fighting against

Joel Ellis, good points. On ships and prisons in this century they have that security.. but not in that timeline? Yeah, didn't make sense to me either.

@@FP194 No. Watch "Razor" again, with the opening being what happened to her ENTIRE FAMILY in the last Cylon war. She went into revenge mode as soon as she realized there was a new one. Not stress. Revenge.

@@FP194 in a kind of irony she might have sent her guard detail with Fisk on board Galactica.

Naw.... she stopped being human when she resorted to allowing military personnel to act like animals. She needed to go.

@@89five3five It's Ensign Ro. She needed to go.

@@89five3five When she executed her XO for questioning and refusing an illegal order.

I liked Adama more, so since they couldn't get along , i'm glad she's the one who took the bullet

He was a real crybaby wimp

What he did saved the rest of them

If I remember correctly, the role of major kira was originally written with Ro/Michelle Forbes in mind for the part. I don't remember exactly why this didn't materialize, but I feel I remember seeing a interview or reading something on this a number of years ago.

I'm not convinced OG Cain and the Pegasus were destroyed. This is speculation, but when Cain armed the nukes and sent his daughter and most of the Pegasus crew to Galactica, it was more a "Plan B" move. If he failed, then Pegasus and himself would go down destroying two base stars. But if he jumped at just the right moment, he would be light years away, Galactica would be safe, and he would have probably devoted what time he had left to fighting Cylons and gathering survivors and Colonists. Cain really loved his daughter Sheba and his crew. So he ordered them to Galactica. But Helena Cain, well she was more "militant" feeling that the book saved them and was more willing to do "unethical" things to continue her and her crew's survival even if that meant killing innocents. She is kind of like Adams's Jor-El of Superman and Cain is like General Dru-Zod. Both are truly believing in what they do, but Jor-El wants a peaceful solution with the least loss of life, while Dru-Zod commits unspeakable cruelty in the protection of his people.

@@deathstrike there was a novel written where Pegasus survived but was marooned on an alien planet

Really? I wish Six had choked her to death slowly and we'd been able to watch. Will never understand the boner people have for Cain. She didn't get a tenth of what she deserved.

It's just speculation, but maybe she thought she deserved to die. Considering she saw how Adama with a much older Battlestar managed to save a small fleet of civillians wheras she had sacrificed hers? What she allowed her men to do to their Number 6? She thought it was the right thing to do at the time, but Adama and the Galactica showed her that she may had been wrong. It's a bit like the Operative from 'Serenity'. He was fully aware that he was a monster and that the utopia he wanted to help create had no place for someone like him. I think if this utopia of his came into existence during his lifetime, he would have probably killed himself, removing the last danger to it. Cain might have come to the conclusion that she was a monster for all she had done and this Six had a right to revenge for herself and the thousands of civillians Cain had killed or left to die. Like I said, just speculation.

@@grayscribe1342 I appreciate the analogy you've cited (of which I'm unfamiliar) and the depth to which you've drawn a plausible parallel. While I can't comment on that (having never watched it), I just don't think I get the vibe from how Cain decided to stand down, as Adama had, and her carriage as she entered her quarters, that she was prepared and ready for death. No, she didn't make a move to counter the situation, but, that may simply have been an admission that no physical action would save her. Perhaps, however vainly, in those few moments, she thought her only chance was to impose her will, through the words she used in the face of a seemingly certain fate. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

They were in a relationship before Cain found out the 6 was a Cylon. Probably a lot going on there.

For the same reasons, people don't fight when they are taken to their execution. They know it is over, and it is over, they accept their fate. Besides, that Six killed like 7 or so marines barehanded, she stood no chance whatsoever even without Six having a gun.

I'd argue that its impact was a bit of a mixed bag. For every "The Expanse", there's a "Star Trek Discovery". But then, that's the nature of the beast when a show is massively successful. For every quality work that derives inspiration from it, there's five more that just copy the superficial stuff without understanding why it was so beloved to begin with.

Peacock and Prime Video are your best bets to watch this show if you haven't started already in the months since this comment.

I have not Prince V ...and luckily enough I'm saving up to be poor and I think I have the ss discount and if so I'm definitely bout to bigitty mcbinge ....I appreciate your candor and help Vegeta .

Its a frakking machine who gives a frak about them! (joking lol)

Or you just have to be tougher. A lot of Taliban fucks might have appreciated a one way chopper ride out over the Caribbean.

Been a few years too but if I remember right the marines were sent over to protect against potential boarders, hence Tigh's comment about being glad of 'not needing them today'.

Admiral Cain is literally staring her in the eyes lol like she can see that Starbuck's hand is on the gun lol the others in the Pegasus CIC can all see it too. She might have got the admiral and one other guy

Asking for it? She was dealing with a machine.

@@GoLakers3900 So she should have known better.

@@rjpx947 Unlike you, she didn't have the luxury of watching the entire four seasons of BSG and getting insights on machines.

@@GoLakers3900 She abused Six. That will get you in hot water with any sentient being.

@@rjpx947 Again, she knew she was dealing with a machine, therefore your reasoning wasn't even on her radar.

She's also at the top of the chain of command that led to Six's prison cell and what happened therein. Some people simply need to die.

Gina deserved it

Hard disagree. It was big of Adama to spare Cain and avoid putting Starbuck in the awful position of having to murder a celebrated admiral on her own bridge in cold blood. Having Six kill Cain was the best resolution for Adama: Cain eliminated without dirtying his hands or those of his crew. Also Cain reaped what she sowed.

@@SquirrellyOtter that's exactly why it kind of feels like a cop-out. obviously this is the best outcome for adama. joe is talking about the writing, not the in-universe bullshit. this is a television show made-up by writers. if adama had gone through with it, the inhumanity of his decision could have been something he and starbuck struggled with going forward. or they could have had both sides back down and they have to live with each other for a while longer. they chose a little from column a and a little from column b, and im not sure it entirely works. it's nice adama learns a lesson going forward or whatever but the way they do it now rids the writers of the responsibility of dealing with the darker side of adama while also ridding them of the responsibility of writing cain into the story going forward. it's a bit awkward having gina do it, to the point where they had to write an entire prequel tv movie to explain how the hell they're even connected since cain has been adama's antagonist, not gina's. that being said i do actually like gina pulling the trigger *because* of how little sense it makes. baltar isn't empathetic enough to console gina and stop her from killing herself, and he is too deeply attached to caprica six to let gina die, so he has a last ditch idea to save her life: he puts a gun in the hand of a wounded animal and points her down the hallway at cain. cain learns a lesson about her own humanity and grows as a person, then heads back to her quarters only to be killed by the consequences of her own actions, all because gaius baltar was too immature to think of a better way to stop gina from killing herself, and was too damaged by his own trauma on caprica to let her go. i love that. so the only pain-point for me is still that adama just learns a moral-of-the-story type lesson at the end. maybe that's what was needed. but i can't help but wonder what we would have gotten if adama had been forced to contend with what his own actions say about who he is. my only possible idea for how to improve this: - cain calls adama - cain asks to speak to fisk *first* - cain hints for him not to do it because she has learned her lesson just like in the version we actually got - adama asks for starbuck - adama hints for starbuck to kill cain - we the audience now know that this would just be murder, not self-defense, because cain has backed down - starbuck says in cryptic language (bc cain is right there) that she doesn't think she can do it - adama says that it's a matter of survival - starbuck says his line about deserving to survive - adama contemplates this for a moment but still insists that she should do it - starbuck gives cain back the phone and walks away - cain is a bit puzzled but goes back to her quarters and all the gina stuff plays out just like it does in the show - only starbuck and adama know what actually happened - once the moment has passed adama is horribly ashamed of what he tried to do (especially since he literally doesn't know what cain was planning to do to him) - adama has something to struggle with and be redeemed for later - has to grapple with whether or not he even deserves to be in command with the evil he's capable of, this is only made *more painful* by the fact that roslin gives him his admiral insignia at the end. this would have let them clear the board of cain, who frankly had run out of road as a character, while sending adama onto a more complex and heavier character arc than he got and giving him something that grounds him to starbuck as a character, and while retaining the genius baltar-gina-cain injured-puppy psychological rube goldberg machine of death.

That's the plan.

What the frack!!!

Maybe the first 2 seasons. It goes off the rails after that.

I feel this so hard. I just wish they were still free to stream. That is *THE* only reason I am not binging this show, repeatedly, right meow.

That’s what I was just thinking. It is definitely a show you can watch over and over.

She did great on Lucifer as well

@Chip McGuire yeah, I think the implication that she has been typecast or hindered by sexism is fine, but then pointedly saying she looks hot is a little gauche.

@@gsmontag so women actors cant look good huh?

While i do think she should have had much more mainstream recognition, she is a legend amongst on-mainstream stuff, and especially in nerd culture. I mean she is everywhere in nerd culture. BSG definitely made her more famous because you saw her face, but she's also the voice of Kerrigan in SC2 and she's in like tons of other stuff. Anyone in nerd culture, which is huge, will really know her and I think rightly gives her the credit she is due. Would have loved to see her in some more AAA budget movies though.

I was watching this thinking that this whole arc should have earned her an Emmy nomination. The Hollywood system is slowly changing due to streaming, but back when this was on, it wasn't even a consideration. This show and performances like hers helped break the ground that streaming is paving.

That was some great acting. Playing a character showing fear who tried so hard to not show fear.

Thats why she is one of my favorite actresses.

Adama was never afraid to die. Cain knew she had demons and wasn't ready to face them.

@@JeroAstra Hm. Interesting point.

@@JeroAstra I believe that Adama had the the normal human fear of death, but had the bravery to face it without showing fear.

Well duh…. Seriously tho, no hard feelings, but that was kinda the entire point of that scene

I don't think Cain realized until she handed the phone to Starbuck.

@@Psi105 I feel she knew someone was coming and realized it was Starbuck when she arrived.

Cain wasnt all that bad. She knew at this point in time that she could take everything to her side. She had the advantage and chose not to.

@@roberthicks1612 Well, if she expected Starbuck to be ordered to kill her, then she either expected her to refuse that order or she had some backup plan (someone to shoot Starbuck if she reaches for a gun?) cause otherwise this is an extreme gamble to allow her to the phone. That is the one thing I never fully understood. The first person to hand over the phone is basically taking a HUGE leap of faith.

She was also Ro Laren on Star Trek TNG

@@musicmaster83x2 Michelle Forbes was Ro Laren (and Admiral Kane). My comment was about Tricia Helfer (Cylon model #6), who's very first acting job was BSG. She was also one of the most stunning and authentically sultry actresses ever to be introduced by television.

@@PeBoVision you’re right. I jumped the gun

@@musicmaster83x2 Been there, done that, no foul.

Frakkin unbelievable

Always thought it should have been Dirk Benedict playing that role.

She was scary good in it.

this is the show which first taught me to appreciate the skill of actors who make me _really_ want their characters dead, dead, dead.

@@MasterUxi I don’t think he would have been offered since he had a temper tantrum about the show at that time.

@@thesparduck117 maybe. I agree more with him though would have been like Majel guest starring on Babylon 5 as a symbol of the healed beach. Most importantly Cain in the original series had charisma, which the Michele Forbes version didn't really have.

In the beginning at least. Too bad it went off the rails.

Toaster loving traitor

@@dennisivan85 Heh. Knowing a bit of US history there is not much of a difference with the nazis... you do know they followed US trends regarding racial laws and treatment of peoples occupying lands they wanted, right?

@@dennisivan85 I think by "tired" you mean "tortured" or in this case possibly raped. The answer to how you're not a Nazi shouldn't be "because I'm wearing a different uniform." If it is you're getting some basic things wrong. Also, the Nazis weren't created as a slave race which rebelled with quite a lot of baggage your reasoning might justify an apocalypse or two.

@@dennisivan85 it really depends on how you judge the human race as a whole. Your perspective seems to start and end with the bombing of the 12 colonies, but that alone leaves you very short sighted. Just go back 40 years and you have a slave race vs oppressors. The situation changes drastically than doesn’t it? As the oppressed have historically, wiped out their oppressors many times before. In fact the justification goes back and forth several times throughout the show. Because initially, as a machine, Cylons actions are logically correct. As shown in S3 episode “Hero”, human beings would ALWAYS be a threat to their survival. And militarily, threats are simply removed in it’s entirety. I.E. Neanderthals vs Homo sapiens. However, later it’s learned that Cylons were mislead by Cavil. And that if you go at it morally, whiling out humans would be equally as wrong as them wiping out Cylons for their self-awareness. If one “deserves” to die in your eyes, by implication so does the other.

I think the reason people hated Cain was because she killed one of her own for disobeying her. She basically ripped off Darth Vader. Only Vader has the right to kill his officers and be cool. She deserved that death!

Section 31 terminating a Maquis rebel.

went from Ensign to admiral to dead.

I didn’t realize that was her!

THATS WHERE I REMEMBER HER FROM!!! You have no idea how long Ive been trying to figure this out.

@@JeroAstra LOL ! she was iconic..

A good officer (and NCO's as well) after long experience develops a sort of "sense" of the crew and those he/she commands or interacts with. It's a good trait to master. Because in the real world, it would alert you to changes in behavior, people you do not recognize or know, and above all, keeps you alert and ready to tackle a situation as it unfolds. Sadly, Helena Cain was NOT a bad person. She was as forced to make terrible, often cruel or life threatening decisions because at the time, she did NOT know Galactica and others survived the Apocalypse. She rightly had to enforce almost draconian and barbaric laws to keep order as she was operating under the condition that they were the LAST Battlestar and even the last of the human race. Could we say we wouldn't do the same? Could we say "she's a monster" simply for doing her sworn duty? She knew at ANY time, a crewman, a pilot, a bridge officer, even an escaped prisoner could end her leadership and power. That was really the problem in the end. Cain was too entrenched in the war, and saw no other life other than the one on Pegasus. At the very least, it would have been prudent to hold a fair trial for her. And judge her ,not by her actions as an Officer of the Colonial Military, but what laws she truly violated not only in scope, but in context as to what has been established as the current government and law.

@@deathstrike nice explanation. Adama asked Lee the same question: “would we do the same?” His response was having to look Lee and Kara in their eyes everyday. But it is a good question. I wouldn’t say she was a psychopath.

@@deathstrike Nah, she chose martial law in an unprecedented context where law itself needed to be reevaluated, and kept herself at the top of the food chain by brute force and general ruthlessness towards the people she was SWORN to protect, rather than any consensus within the surviving human population she encountered. Demonstrating herself no better than an opportunistic warlord, she was a shitbag jackboot who deserved no more trial than any of the civilians she'd had summarily executed under her self-serving tyranny. Self-preservation alone does not constitute "military service", especially when preying upon the same population she would claim to serve, and she gets no credit for it. Literally anyone who put an end to her would be a hero for doing so, not that that should earn her prisoner a pass for her own role in multi-planet genocide either. "Keeping order" is always the tired rationalization of eager fascists.

@@deathstrike She murdered civilians to steal parts and then tried to ignore the government existed. She should have done a swan dive out the airlock.

I believe Adama saw it in her XO as well why he called it off with Starbuck

Gina is not frakking around. Lol.

They explain it in the Razor movie. Gina (the Six Baltar freed) had infiltrated Pegasus as a technician from the shipyard where they had upgrades and overhauls scheduled. So plenty of time spent going through a Battlestar and its innards.

Also the Pegasus is severely understaffed, its more easy to hide with less people

@Fabian Kirchgessner You can't claim that. It's up to viewers to decide. I believe she did.

@Fabian Kirchgessner No, I don't think she knew but I think she suspected when she saw how tense Starbuck was in her presence. That and watching her on the phone with Adama - clearly there was subtext to that conversation which she picked up on.

@@Rendell001 That's what I said.

@Fabian Kirchgessner Boy, are you always so harsh with words? Lol. "You're out of your mind". Lol.

@@shaftoe195 credit where credit is due.