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Be careful who you listen to! Chord M-Scaler measurements discussion 

Passion for Sound
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Following the many comments I received about the measurements of the Chord M-Scaler over on Audio Science Review, I decided to do some digging. Here are the results (in a manner of speaking).
You can find the ASR content here:
Video: • Chord M-scaler Audio R...
Written: www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
My previous interview with Rob Watts is here: • Interview with Rob Wat...
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00:00 Introduction
04:06 Jitter measurements
08:05 Why M-Scaler is best with Chord DACs
11:35 Increased noise in 2x & 4x oversampling
16:26 Discussion of inaudible noise levels
24:06 Upsampling showing no improvement in performance
26:42 No measured frequency response change
30:43 How can we measure things at such low thresholds?
33:34 What other measurements should be considered?
39:13 Lessons from designing an ADC
45:45 Why is the M-Scaler designed/sold to work with other gear?
47:27 How to test the M-Scaler for yourself
48:35 Effect of upsampling on the cut-off filters
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#audiophile #audioreview #mscaler

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16 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 1,1 тыс.   
@bradleydbusse
@bradleydbusse Год назад
The guest agreed to an almost hour long interview in response to an ASR measurement report, but didn't provide you the courtesy of reading it ahead of time to see what the complaints were? Something smells poopy in here.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Almost the entire set of measurements had been discussed at length in a Head-Fi thread where he was active so he didn't come in unaware.
@bradleydbusse
@bradleydbusse Год назад
@@PassionforSound Thank you, fair enough. Appreciate the correction.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
No problems. Thanks for being open to the conversation. 🙂
@Canadian_Eh_I
@Canadian_Eh_I 3 месяца назад
@@PassionforSound Thanks PFS we need more of this open minded public discourse.
@user-gf7kj5vj3p
@user-gf7kj5vj3p 29 дней назад
​@@PassionforSoundthere is no need to discuss hard data with audiophile idiots. Now it's your job to provide evidence to counter his data. Good luck with that.
@dennisbohner6876
@dennisbohner6876 Год назад
'I haven't read it.'.... why am I paying attention to you?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Please see the many other comments where I have responded to this (including the pinned comment IIRC)
@JeffMudrick
@JeffMudrick 2 года назад
I stopped at "I haven't read the article".
@petercook7502
@petercook7502 Месяц назад
No you didn't 😂
@user-gf7kj5vj3p
@user-gf7kj5vj3p 28 дней назад
Yup. Snake oil salesman caught out with lies and BS. hahaahaaa. Did you know opening your speakers, dipping your loudspeaker wadding into the juices of surströmming then putting back inside your front ported speakers improves bass response, makes treble sweeter?
@little-endian5957
@little-endian5957 Год назад
The Emperor's New Clothes - one only has to know how to sell it. For many, the impossibility to prove a negative (something not having an effect after all) seems to be good enough to believe in the salvation.
@michaelchaney1230
@michaelchaney1230 2 года назад
Why’s Ron commenting on a review he states he knows nothing about? This is weird and absurd.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
He said he didn't read it, but he knew plenty about it. There had been lengthy discussions about it on Head-Fi by this point so there were no mysteries
@SkywhiteChannel
@SkywhiteChannel Год назад
Maybe he should have read it because it rips him and his mscaler apart.
@nickwavehighfidelity7651
@nickwavehighfidelity7651 2 года назад
Hi Lachlan, thanks for that and I am very much looking forward to your review of the Dave. Nick.
@mintchoncc
@mintchoncc 2 года назад
Thank you for reaching out to Rob Watts! Really appreciate the inquisitive approach you took to the questions ASR's measurements brought up.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Glad it was helpful/interesting!
@h0ll0wm9n
@h0ll0wm9n 2 года назад
Hmmm .... so at the beginning, Watts says he HASN'T read the ASR review. Wha .... ??
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
The whole review has basically been reproduced on Head-Fi so there wasn't really a need for him to read it in its entirety. Also, I asked him to answer some questions that I had, not to read the review.
@h0ll0wm9n
@h0ll0wm9n 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound I liked this interview, PFS. So ... maybe you should edit that Rob Watts comment out.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Once uploaded, videos on RU-vid can't be replaced without releasing it as a brand new video. Plus, I believe in not altering someone's words to suit an agenda. If a person can't look past that one statement and focus on the fact that Rob is simply answering my questions, not critiquing the ASR review directly (which I respect him for) then I doubt any changes to the video will get through to them.
@georgestephenopolous5508
@georgestephenopolous5508 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound The review is a miniscule amount of words anyone could easily skim it. Just read the thing. I'm sure he has or at least his lawyers have. I don't buy that this guy isn't aware of every last word Amir wrote. This is going to cost him a lot of money right or wrong. If he is right I hope he has the wherewithal to prove it in court.
@user-gf7kj5vj3p
@user-gf7kj5vj3p 29 дней назад
​@@georgestephenopolous5508hahahaha 🤣
@GuiltyRocker
@GuiltyRocker 2 года назад
Great video, always a pleasure to see Rob Watts speak.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I agree. It's a bit like drinking from a fire hose with some of the technicalities, but always informative!
@GuiltyRocker
@GuiltyRocker 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound I happen to have read Shannon Sync Function theory and find his work very interesting, therefore, his approach to long interpolation filters to properly approach the decay of Sync Function is fantastic. Many don't agree and won't agree, however, listening to his DACs is a pleasure. I recently bought the M Scaler and absolutely love it with the Qutest.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
So glad you're enjoying the M-Scaler and Qutest and that you've taken the time to read up on the theory. It makes a lot of sense once you do the reading and helps to appreciate Rob's approach, doesn't it?
@GuiltyRocker
@GuiltyRocker 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound It sure does, I also saw that you liked the TT-2 better than the Holo Audio May, which many are hailing as the best thing since sliced bread.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I did prefer the TT2 by a small margin, but mostly due to the value provided by the DAC/HP amp combo it offers. The May is a brilliant DAC for those who already have their amps/preamps sorted. I still slightly prefer the sound from TT2, but it's a very small margin
@dasninjastix
@dasninjastix 2 года назад
Always a good time trying to keep up with Rob's explanations. Thanks for the content, was highly informative. I like it when the engineers who design the device are brought into the discussion. Emphasis on "discussion". Because that's what it should be.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
It's always a bit like drinking from a fire hose of theory, but I love it! Glad you enjoyed the discussion (and I agree about the discussion part)
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
More like snake oil vendor
@dasninjastix
@dasninjastix 2 года назад
Well whatever snake made the Mojo 2 must of been one hell of a breed. 🐍
@timjp31
@timjp31 Год назад
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe Snake oil? Hmm is that why my 2 channel sounds so good, bring me more expensive snake oil
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe Год назад
@@timjp31 yes its all in your head, and you paid money for it. congratulations.
@ianhaylock7409
@ianhaylock7409 Год назад
Goes on a podcast to discuss ASR's measurements, and doesn't even read the review beforehand. Yeah great idea.
@fwabble
@fwabble Год назад
They're scum, utter scam artists. I hope the world they see crumbling around them falls sooner rather than later. WE LOVE THE TRUTH (AKA.... TRANSPARENCY ;P)
@davidelmquist8670
@davidelmquist8670 2 года назад
Why not speak to Asr?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I'm not qualified to debate the ins and outs of it. My aim was to gather more info and then people can make up their own minds
@Bigirondoug
@Bigirondoug 4 месяца назад
If you can hear a difference then therefore there is a difference, this idea that if something measures the same that it sounds the same is ridiculous. It's very simple, purchase whatever sounds good to YOU.
@user-gf7kj5vj3p
@user-gf7kj5vj3p 29 дней назад
Spoken like a true gullible fool.
@grahamstrahle4010
@grahamstrahle4010 2 года назад
It's interviews like this that make audio a great hobby.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
So glad you enjoyed it!
@joegalaxy9037
@joegalaxy9037 2 года назад
audio is a great hobby notwithstanding sell-outs like this "interview"
@neogenzim1995
@neogenzim1995 Год назад
@@joegalaxy9037 agreed, all these subjectivists could easily prove themselves by doing live blind listening tests, but they don't do level matched blind listening tests. if you can't do that, what's the point of an interview?
@HoidWit
@HoidWit Год назад
@@neogenzim1995 THIS
@donvittoriosierra
@donvittoriosierra 2 года назад
Great content. Thanks for this!
@dungysphincter7974
@dungysphincter7974 2 года назад
Now, I would like to see you interview Amir from ASR, then go over Amirs measurement results of the Chord M-Scaler. This would be the unbiased way to get the real facts, and what it means to the customer purchasing the Chord M-Scaler. Amir is very open to reviews of his findings. I am very curious of why Rob Watts from Chord has not done this? Intriguing!
@guybkt
@guybkt 2 года назад
Amir is very open to reviews of his findings? Guess we've read comments entirely different Amir's.
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
He won’t do it, because the measurements are true. This would definitely make me stay away from Chord products. Changes something that only the human mind can determine.😂
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Yep, I attempted to have a conversation over on ASR and it proved mostly fruitless with the one bright spot being a forum member with some very interesting insights and thoughts. Sadly, Amir chose to ignore my direct questions and focus on trying to discredit my subjective listening experiences and teach me how to do it right.
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
I can understand the subjective listening thing ! But he should still engage with you.
@guybkt
@guybkt 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound aahhh yep, there's the Amir I've read posts from.
@epg2501
@epg2501 Год назад
Out of the gate Rob states, “So I haven’t officially read the ASR article so I don’t know what he was doing in terms of his measurements.” The typical response to smoke and mirrors.
@user-gf7kj5vj3p
@user-gf7kj5vj3p 29 дней назад
That's because he's spent thousands in audiophile network switches, fuses and magic pebbles.
@luca12957
@luca12957 Год назад
Sorry if i comment again but...."i haven't read the article" ?!? 4:48 he is there to dispute those statements and he never even read them?!?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
No, he's there to answer my specific questions. I didn't ask him to read and critique the ASR measurements. This isn't a battle, it's a discussion
@luca12957
@luca12957 Год назад
@@PassionforSound ofc it's a discussion. a discussion based on something he didn't read.
@PSM-IPADZ_OX
@PSM-IPADZ_OX 2 года назад
Now, it’s like interviewing Volkswagen about their own DieselGate ….. and casting doubts on the EPA actual measurements of the claimed mileage and emissions. Do we see the same similarities here ? And that singular act of deceit, fraud and conspiring by the Volkswagen Group collapsed the auto market for diesel cars.
@awesomeelectricalengineer3487
@awesomeelectricalengineer3487 Год назад
Hi, please can you tell me what headphones and mic you use (assuming they're separate rather than one headset). Thanks.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I'm pretty sure I was using the ModMic Wireless microphone attached to a pair of Ollo S4X headphones. I've reviewed both (separately) here on the channel 🙂
@maomao180
@maomao180 2 года назад
amp/dac enthusiasts are a special bunch
@Audfile
@Audfile Год назад
The Emperor has no clothes, so he went to the Emperor to confirm his outfit. Ok, I feel better.
@frederf69
@frederf69 Год назад
Let's face it; these high end audio guys who expect us to be fooled by high prices are mostly con men.
@mjp5546
@mjp5546 Год назад
Great content, thank you.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Glad you liked it! 🙂
@gioponti6359
@gioponti6359 2 года назад
Thanks for great work!! Really appreciate your work and approach to things!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
My pleasure. Glad it was helpful
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
You should thank ASR for all the work they did proving it doesn't do anything.
@gioponti6359
@gioponti6359 2 года назад
@@r423sdex oh, yes, if they could indeed prove that it wouldn’t do anything I’d be willing to thank them - if and only if I really was about to blindly purchase an M-Scaler without any listening at all (to couple it with a budget topping dac 🤦🏻‍♂️). Since I am not doing any of that, I’ll merely thank them for doing some measurements, and for showing the results, but I’d more than hesitate drawing any conclusion from what they show, and so I fail to blindly accept their rather speculative conclusions. Musical perception of what is reproduced by a DAC isn’t comprehensively quantified by a Sinad test at 1kHz. Many DACs have similar results there and yet sound very different. How’s that?
@qed9600
@qed9600 2 года назад
This discussion about the ASR measurements would have been much better had Rob read the ASR report.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
How so. What extra information do you think he needed that was not provided to him in my questions and/or via the Head-Fi discussions that were extremely detailed about everything we discussed
@dihydrotestosterone
@dihydrotestosterone 6 месяцев назад
You can't be serious? You stated if someone can produce relevant measurements that disprove Robb's claim..... Jesus that's what Amir did!! 😂😂
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 месяцев назад
You need to watch the video properly. Amir ran a series of irrelevant tests designed for DACs. As Rob explained clearly in this discussion, most of what the M-Scaler is doing cannot be measured with an analog instrument like Amir's setup and needs to be measured via calculations in the digital domain.
@joindivision1090
@joindivision1090 2 года назад
You can't criticize Rob's willingness to put himself out there and answer people's questions.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
Answer a known snake oil peddler reviewer questions? That’s hilarious. He should go to ASR and try he’s silver tounge bs on people who really know what’s going on.
@joindivision1090
@joindivision1090 2 года назад
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe go over to the Head -Fi forum and post your question there. I have - Rob will answer. How many engineers do you know who are that committed to the audio community? It is sad that shallow people enjoy the thrill of internet drama so much that they feel no shame in anonymously slandering people with baseless insults. So many audiophile forums are just toxic cesspools. I would respectfully request that you don't pollute Lachlan's comment threads unless you have a genuine question or something informative to say. Thank you.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@joindivision1090 the Irony of it is you care more about the comments than people being swindled by a useless product
@joindivision1090
@joindivision1090 2 года назад
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe I don't think you understand the meaning of irony.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@joindivision1090 and more about grammar than fraud
@davidmillar2594
@davidmillar2594 10 месяцев назад
I think the real question people need to ask is not - can we measure the performance of this device - but, what is the value of placebo? It's the old "Matrix" question from Cypher - if it's all in the head, imagined, but still enjoyable, does knowing the device does nothing lessen that enjoyment? Mind over matter, I guess. There are some who just embrace the placebo and are at peace knowing they hear a difference. There are others who, when the learn the device is doing nothing, suddenly cannot enjoy it anymore.
@bardrich2570
@bardrich2570 Год назад
Love Passion for Sound & Love Rob Watt ❤❤❤
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Thanks Bard Rich ❤️❤️
@keithbertschin1213
@keithbertschin1213 2 года назад
I have the TT2 and M Scaler. 90% of my music is 44/16 flac. Yes they are expensive pieces of kit but all I can say is my listening sessions are pure pleasure. You’re there in the studio with some recordings. It can become almost spiritual at times. Regardless of measurements and debates like this which are over my head, those chord pieces are worth a couple of good vacations for the pure joy they give.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I completely agree, Keith. So glad you're enjoying them! I think if this were all snake oil as claimed there would be many more unhappy Chord customers screaming about it, but most people have either moved on due to personal preferences, sold and then rebought Chord, or just bought it and never looked back. That's pretty good evidence IMO
@keithbertschin1213
@keithbertschin1213 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound 100%, I think it was very good of you to have Rob Watts on to put those questions to and the way you did it was great. Not easy to question someone on their life’s work. I think the Audio Research guy is doing a good job too but it just shows that measurement v listening tension. This is what online should be about, honest debate. You’re one of the people who promote that and I thank you for what you do.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Thanks Keith. That's certainly my intent. I don't believe in shutting down any open, honest inquiry and conversation, but also believe that we need to highlight potential misinformation when it arises and let those who want to make up their own minds to have more information at hand to do so for themselves.
@dingskydongsky
@dingskydongsky 2 года назад
@@susokraut3169 British audio equipment is quite overpriced
@dingskydongsky
@dingskydongsky 2 года назад
@@susokraut3169 Audiolab is Chinese
@jerkersandquist7244
@jerkersandquist7244 2 года назад
How could the m-scaler change the transients for the better? The transients are allready in the recording and if the m-scaler retains the fidelity of the source material it shouldnt touch the duration, timing, frequency response or level of the transients.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
There's a great post by GoldenOne on the M-Scaler thread on Head-Fi that answers this. It should still be pretty close to the end of the thread
@sergeysmelnik
@sergeysmelnik 2 года назад
It doesnt change shit
@The_lastfallen
@The_lastfallen 2 года назад
tnx for video, plz tell me because i need your experience 🙏🏻 i finally got to 2 choices, Monarch Mk2 & Moondrop variation !! my only concern is about Monarch Mk2 in the part of bass !! is better than variation in part of bass?? do you think Monarch Mk2 is worth paying twice as much?? i will be happy if you have a better recommend!!
@dante19890
@dante19890 Год назад
seems like variations have the better FR so it should actually perform better as an all around Iem
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I haven't tried the Variations so I can't comment (and sorry for my slow reply!) What I would say though is that judging based on frequency response is generally not advisable. There are so many other factors that go into the final sound of an IEM
@dante19890
@dante19890 Год назад
@@PassionforSound the frequency response is the final sound of an iem that goes into the ear canal
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
That's true, but based on what shape and length of ear canal? I'll explain this in depth in a video due out next week (I think)
@dante19890
@dante19890 Год назад
@@PassionforSound Thats why deep insertion is important. If ur not getting a good fit then u can get a different non ideal sound its been proving many times
@davemccallum8302
@davemccallum8302 2 года назад
Nice Tektronix lab oscilloscope @ Rob Watts. A oldy but a goody!
@edwardbit8225
@edwardbit8225 2 года назад
Thanks for this,full respect to you Sir.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Thanks Edward. Hope it was helpful
@dp6igw977
@dp6igw977 Год назад
At 5:03 rob said he did not read the ASR measurement!! What this episode is all about it and investing 15 minutes to skim through the article seems the righ thing to do
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Two points to consider here: 1) I asked Rob to answer my questions, not read and critique the ASR review 2) the ASR review has been discussed at length on Head-Fi where Rob is very active. There was no need for him to read it on ASR
@marklobban5354
@marklobban5354 2 года назад
Hi Lachlan, fantastic video, clears up the confusion around why certain measurements were not applicable to the functionality of the device in conjunction with another Chord DAC. I have been a long time user of the M Scaler with the Chord Qutest. I am still not sure if I would see much benefit however moving from the M Scaler >> Wave High Fidelity Storm cables >> Qutest + S Booster LPS to the M Scaler >> Wave High Fidelity Storm cables >> Hugo TT2. Is it going to give me better performance or should you just jump to the Dave instead?
@sp00ky1969
@sp00ky1969 2 года назад
Personally, I'd go to the Dave - it's a great combo. I went from TT2 to the Dave to give some context. TT2 gives a different sound, perhaps largely due to it's output stage, but the TT2 is also less influenced by the power supply due to it's use of supercapacitors, all imho of course.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I'm actually working on a DAVE review right now and when the DAVE first arrived I was trying to figure out how I could afford to buy it. Having completed the review, I'm actually super happy sticking with the TT2, not because it's technically better, but because I enjoy it more. The DAVE IS the technically superior DAC without a doubt, but I can imagine many people preferring the TT2 for its slightly weightier midrange and bass (without it being thick). As for the TT2 vs the Qutest when both paired with the M-Scaler. I covered this in my review of series covering the Qutest, TT2 and M-Scaler combinations so check that out for the fine details (there's a playlist on my channel called "Chord Endgame" or similar, but the gist of it is that the TT2 is an excellent upgrade from the Qutest as a DAC and happens to have a brilliant amp stage too.
@mkemp01
@mkemp01 2 года назад
Great discussion. Top blokes both of you.
@geoff37s38
@geoff37s38 2 года назад
Many Audiophiles obsess over trivia. This is an expensive box that may or may not give subtle results. The truth is that room acoustics and loudspeaker choice have far more effect on audio quality. The very best speaker produces high levels of distortion which masks more subtle differences. Spemd your money on speakers that sound good to you and attend to room acoustics. Just moving your speakers or listening position can give very noticable changes to audio quality.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
No doubt there's some truth to that, Geoff. The choice of speakers/headphones and main components are definitely the most important. Once that's all in place though, something like the M-Scaler can provide a nice additional lift to the sound
@1061shrink1061
@1061shrink1061 8 месяцев назад
@@PassionforSound Also for some of us, there is a limit to what can be done with the room. I'm very happy with my speakers, and I have a subtle amount of rear wall absorption and corner bass trapping, within the realms of domestic acceptability. Once you hit that ceiling, the increments need to come from somewhere else. I will admit that the M-Scaler has given me the largest amount of mental gymnastics, as a TT2 owner I'm on the fence about whether I want / need one. I've also considered the Blu Mk2 transport so that I get both the Scaler and a transport in one box.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 8 месяцев назад
I don't believe the Blu is capable of anything near what the M-Scaler is doing. If course, if you pair it up with HQPlayer and Roon, that's a different story 🙂
@oscardziki4543
@oscardziki4543 2 года назад
No, it's not okay if you enjoy it. If someone is selling you magic beans, it's not okay just because you enjoy it. If someone sells you counterfeit painting, it's not okay, just because you like it.
@overnightparking
@overnightparking 2 года назад
Thanks Lachlan
@chefsteve8381
@chefsteve8381 2 года назад
After watching this, my question is, was there anything you disagreed with or did not understand ?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
From Rob you mean? I think the only thing I question (and I don't yet know for sure) is if his claims about other DACs (specifically R2R because I know about other delta sigma DACs) are actually not doing as good a job with transients. I also didn't understand some of the final piece. I can't recall what it was specifically, but said in the video that I kind of let the detail slide because the key piece of information was covered to answer my question and the rest was going to take too long to unpack.
@hixyhicks
@hixyhicks 2 года назад
How can this be an unbiased interview ?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
No-one claimed it was unbiased. I reached out to Rob Watts because I had doubts about the value of Amir's measurements relative to the M-Scaler and the conclusions he was drawing as a result so I asked the designer to discuss my understanding of those measurements and to clarify from his perspective. Nothing different from that was claimed
@hixyhicks
@hixyhicks 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound why bother with the interview then ?.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Because the information presented on ASR was incomplete and largely irrelevant to the actual performance of the device. On top of that, ASR followers were flooding every forum and RU-vid channel with negative and often abusive comments so I felt like balancing the equation was needed for people who like to consider all sides before making up their minds
@nunoferraz5426
@nunoferraz5426 2 года назад
Thank you for getting your hands dirty on this!! It's important there is a balanced approach to big, possibly damaging claims. However... the cost to performance ratio remains a question in my mind.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
That's always going to be a personal equation and something that I think can only be answered by trying it for yourself. I personally am yet to find a setup that I prefer over the M-Scaler and TT2 so it's definitely good value to me, but we're all different. 🙂
@seveneleven2237
@seveneleven2237 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound thats saying some about the Dave.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
The DAVE is brilliant and technically superior, but I find myself preferring the character of the sound from the TT2 with the M-Scaler over the DAVE and M-Scaler. I'll explain more in the DAVE review because it's not a clear better vs worse IMO
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
The Dave dac is not that impressive, check it out on ASR. Especially for the money !
@joegalaxy9037
@joegalaxy9037 2 года назад
ah ah ah, "getting your hands dirty" as in "become involved in dishonest or dishonourable activity" is the right way to put it
@petercook7502
@petercook7502 Месяц назад
I can never get get over the strong levels of feeling (almost hate sometimes) over a product that nobody is forcing anyone to purchase. If I could afford such a luxury item I would want to handle it to get a feel for its quality and LISTEN to it. If I liked what I was hearing I wouldn't care what forums said or what the endlessly measuring fanatics said, I would buy it and enjoy it.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Месяц назад
Exactly! Well said. 🙂
@PixelPhobiac
@PixelPhobiac 2 года назад
4:49 I'm sorry but he should at least have read the ASR article himself before being interviewed about it
@paulf3353
@paulf3353 2 года назад
Yep, and watch the ASRs video... Really, hard to argue with measurements.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Basically, the entire thread has been captured via comments on the M-Scaler Head-Fi thread so he essentially has read it, just at a different location. Paul F, if you're saying it's hard to argue with Amir's measurements, you really need to go back and listen to the interview again because the whole discussion was around the fact that those specific measurements are irrelevant for the M-Scaler because he's treated it like a DAC and not understood what the product is actually designed to do.
@mariodrv
@mariodrv 2 года назад
@@paulf3353 lol
@gs10101010
@gs10101010 2 года назад
@@paulf3353 he is being interviewed about his product and asked questions relating to measurements. I love that there is no contradiction or denial of any measurements. He is not arguing about the measurements. He is explaining and discussing his design choices and why it makes things sound better and how the measurements relate to that improvement. It’s brilliant as an engagement.
@PixelPhobiac
@PixelPhobiac 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound thanks for clarifying I respect your attempt to get a healthy discussion going on
@davidrodgers8711
@davidrodgers8711 2 года назад
@38:07 is it not convenient that some aspects of Rob’s design implementations, that he claims sound better, cannot be measured? If it is more art than science than just say so.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Not really convenient. If it were easy to measure these things we'd have way more cheaper, better sounding DACs. Thankfully we have people out there going beyond the simple measurements to design products that also sound fantastic
@Melkitzedeq
@Melkitzedeq 3 месяца назад
If you can hear it, you absolutely can measure it, otherwise you couldn't hear. Moreover, instruments can measure what you can't hear. Calling out art is absurd, art is done with science and tecnique, do not mistake the perception of its beauty with its principles of making...
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 3 месяца назад
There are no analog measuring devices that have the sensitivity needed to measure some of what's being done in the digital domain of products like this (e.g. noise shaping)
@Melkitzedeq
@Melkitzedeq 3 месяца назад
@@PassionforSound What's being done is using equations, which is math, so absolutely measurable, to concentrate noise, which is meaureable, in frequenzy bands to which hearing, which is measurable, is less sensible. There's no need of noise shaping if you produce an instrument which put all the possible noise directly to a non audible level, and this is absolutely measurable.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 3 месяца назад
The lack of noise is absolutely measurable, but the listening tests conducted during the creation of some of these products showed that mathematically quantifiable changes to the noise floor (via noise shaping) that go beyond measurable limits were still influencing the subjective enjoyment of the device. All of this is also before we discuss the timing accuracy of transients in the musical signal which cannot be measured (AFAIK) with currently available analog tools.
@jianhuang0124
@jianhuang0124 2 года назад
Easy, blind test with few friends.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I have plans for something like that later in the year...
@jianhuang0124
@jianhuang0124 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound great! Looking forward to it. Thank you!
@BillNepill
@BillNepill Год назад
That would be good, wouldn't hold my breath because it will almost certaintly show that there is no point in 10K £ DACs.
@jianhuang0124
@jianhuang0124 Год назад
@@BillNepill yeah, I would agree. It's physics and I am an engineer. Still want to see the result if possible. A true engineer doesn't have predefined bias.
@andrewgiovannini6613
@andrewgiovannini6613 25 дней назад
@@jianhuang0124 your comment is under-rated. Thank you.
@nburton01
@nburton01 2 года назад
I was very interested to hear what Rob was saying about comparing a recording to reality. I'am always amazed that reviewers often listen to electronic or studio recorded music to review equipment. With electronic music you have no reference to what it should sound like. With studio recordings you are just listening to the reality the engineer has created, a lot of sound altering equipment and an artificial environment/soundstage. To me it's critical to listen to acoustical instruments recorded live and instruments you have heard live and are familiar with. Even better, make high quality recordings of instruments and vocals in the listening room with the microphones at the listening position. Then you have a good reference to how it should sound. You can then hear and describe the differences the equipment under review makes and how close it is to reality.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I agree, Nick. In an ideal world, having a reference recording would be amazing. I think it's worth remembering that when using live recordings, things like mic placement and mic choice can all also influence the sound so live recordings aren't necessarily better than studio recordings because every recording will be influenced by the setup, but I definitely take your point. Electronic music can be good for testing things like frequency response and imaging accuracy (how focussed the sound can be, not accuracy of placement) so all styles of music and recording have their uses, but they do need to be understood.
@nburton01
@nburton01 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound I would agree that electronic music can be good for checking things like bass response and dynamics, not sure about imaging accuracy though, as the environment has to be emulated. Although this can, I guess, be computed quite accurately these days. I just get a bit frustrated with a lot of reviews because I want to know, and it’s often missing, how transparent the equipment is, how close is gets to reproducing the original instruments, vocals and environment. Keep up the good work and thanks for showing this interview with Rob.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I completely agree about acoustic music being the best for assessing timbre and naturalness. Glad you're enjoying the content!
@daysofgrace2934
@daysofgrace2934 Год назад
@@PassionforSound Symphonica by George Michael, orchestra & one of the best British voices ever. I have the Bluray hi-res 2 channel mixes in 24/96 PCM, DTS-HD (lossless) & Dolby TrueHD (lossless)
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Thanks for the tip!
@denteomd
@denteomd 2 года назад
It is always great to understand the complexities of digital, Rob Watts always fascinates me. Math Issues, compromises and work around decisions which Chord engineers have made in building a product that I enjoy. Though not perfect, it has brought me closer to the real thing. It is not just about measurements but for me the connection with the music.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Very well said, Dennis. That's pretty much my experience too
@yoddeb
@yoddeb 2 года назад
He has not read the ASR article? What is this nonsense?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
He had seen and discussed all of the measurements and findings as people posted them on Head-Fi for discussion. He didn't actually need to read the full ASR review and I asked him to answer my questions, not critique the actual review
@ianhaylock7409
@ianhaylock7409 Год назад
@@PassionforSound You should have asked him to debunk Amir's measurements. If he agrees with the measurements, then why the hate for Amir?
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
The issue is the irrelevance of the measurements, Ian, and there's not hate for Amir. I am disappointed that it has produced a set of measurements that don't reflect the actual performance of the device, but he's used then to claim that the device does nothing. It's either an unprofessional or ignorant approach to the interpretation of the measurements.
@vandemon9643
@vandemon9643 Год назад
I get the feeling the purely objective-only mob could take four amps which measure at 100w into 8 ohms and same but more into 4 ohms, 2 ohms etc. With distortion/noise similar too. One would be a tube amp, one class A solid state, a class AB and a class D. I am sure they could argue they should all sound the same. Most of us know they certaintly will not!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I agree. Unfortunately, the fact that they've seen the measurements would likely result in them hearing them as sounding all the same too. The consideration/argument of bias seems to only work in one direction...
@kesgreen4639
@kesgreen4639 Год назад
A tube amp with similar distortion to a class A or D?! Is there such a thing?!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I think the point was more to have multiple different types of amp that all measure decently (i.e. no major design flaws)
@kesgreen4639
@kesgreen4639 Год назад
@@PassionforSound you could design a perfect wind-up, steel needle gramaphone, but no-one is going to think it's going to sound like a high resolution digital sound file though a state-of-the-art DAC and loudspeakers.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
That's true, but I'm unclear of the relevance - sorry
@Kris_M
@Kris_M 2 года назад
Isn't the least common multiple of 44.1 and 48 kHz 7.056 MHz instead of 104?
@nacarp2000
@nacarp2000 2 года назад
Yes it is. Love to hear Rob's answer to this.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Rob explained in the video that he was looking for the multiple closest to a specific frequency (98mHz or something in that realm) IIRC. He definitely explained the specific choice of 104.
@nacarp2000
@nacarp2000 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound Unfortunately 104MHz is not a multiple of 44.1kHz and 48kHz. He did also mention 115, 98 and 92, but the only frequency close to those that works is 15 x 7.056 = 105.84MHz. Maybe he meant 106 not 104 but that would be a strange mistake for him. If 16x oversampling is your goal then 16 x 7.056 = 112.896MHz would make more sense, but then you would have those leading edge problems he talked about.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I can't debate the merits of a particular frequency, but I do think Rob said it wasn't exactly 104, but 104 point something. I just rounded it to 104 for ease in the discussions
@dante19890
@dante19890 Год назад
U don't wanna upsample the music in the first place. It's like watching DVDs on a 8k tv.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
It doesn't work like that, Andreas. Video isn't a good comparison for audio upsampling.
@JingoLoBa57
@JingoLoBa57 Год назад
Why is Chord not reaching out with a plan to speak with Amir. This is strange marketing. Involving a non engineer not even a tech. Your mindset reveals judgments right at the start… “I can’t believe it’s as bad as that…” And Rob hasn’t bothered to read or watch Amir’s work published… sounds like another MOFI Gate situation.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I reached out to Rob. Chord aren't involved at all (Rob works for Chord as a consultant, not an employee). I suspect Chord hasn't reached out to Amir because his measurements of the M-Scaler don't really warrant discussion because they aren't measuring what it does and are just an arbitrary set of measurements that illustrate nothing meaningful about an upsampler.
@TheSeaDevilsband
@TheSeaDevilsband Год назад
@@PassionforSound seems like that would be a perfect opportunity for them to set the record straight then...
@connorduke4619
@connorduke4619 2 года назад
That was an excellent interview Lachlan, and goes to show the vastly different levels of knowledge of a consumer like most of your viewers, a prosumer like ASR and a professional like Mr Watts. That digital "softens" music was certainly an interesting take away.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I found the live recording experiences fascinating too! Glad you enjoyed it!
@MW-ii5nb
@MW-ii5nb 2 года назад
How was this excellent? First thing Rob says I don't want to talk about the tests. And hasn't even read the ASR review yet. Then they go on to talking about why Rob designed the mscaler the way he did and sidestepping the facts.
@connorduke4619
@connorduke4619 2 года назад
@@MW-ii5nb Rob does not have a reporting line to ASR and is therefore not obliged to respond to their every question. In addition it seems to me Lachlan raised the key critiques of ASR and Rob answered all of them - quite extensively in fact.
@MW-ii5nb
@MW-ii5nb 2 года назад
@@connorduke4619 OK... then why do an interview about the ASR review when you didn't even read the ARS review. Seems like a great way not to talk about the facts, and rub some snake oil on the watchers.
@connorduke4619
@connorduke4619 2 года назад
@@MW-ii5nb The facts were addressed. Whether or not you consider the replies to be snake oil is up to you. But for me the facts were all factually addressed.
@Starch1b2c3d4a
@Starch1b2c3d4a 2 года назад
Need that Qutest 2 to drop. Lets go!
@SteelBlueVision
@SteelBlueVision Год назад
13:56 - (and the 15 secs before it, as well) What?? " DC - 20kHz, the noise floor is below 400 dB.
@TheChrisleekay
@TheChrisleekay 2 года назад
It would have to make a "night and day" differnce for me to spend 4k. Also why never any blind tests on kit like this?
@joshua43214
@joshua43214 2 года назад
My first experience with upsampling came from using an RPi 3+ and an Allo DigiOne (whole kit under $200.00). My source was an ODroid HC2 ($50.00 + SSD). DAC/etc was a NAD T758 AVR ($1500.00ish). Aside from the AVR, all very cheap gear. I tried the DigiOne because the only way to get music from my server to my AVR was through blusound - which really sucked to use. You would not ask about blind tests if you had something like this. I tried the upsampling one day while listening with my son, I had no expectations at all. Ya, night and day, black and white, left or right.
@johnmclean627
@johnmclean627 2 года назад
Rob Watts mentions several times about listening tests. How are these preformed? Who does them? If it’s Rob, is he shaping the filter with his middle aged ears with inevitable frequency compromised? These things would have been good to know.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I think we spoke about that in my original interview with Rob if you want to check that out. I don't think his ears are an issue though because tonally the products are great (and the WTA filters were designed quite some time ago now). Also much of the testing is being done to identify the depth of the soundstage and that won't be as influenced by age related hearing losses as something like frequency response tuning.
@alfyb4512
@alfyb4512 Год назад
There really isn’t any journalism when it comes to hifi, is there? Rob is basically allowed to say whatever he wants without any challenges. “Hey, I need the noise to make the depth, no choice, don’t measure the noise, it’s no relevant”. What?? No actual responses to some very disturbing facts (that may or may not tell the full story, but are still very much there), and a host that is either unwilling or incapable of challenging the discourse. A shining example of what’s wrong in our hobby.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I'm not qualified to challenge Rob's responses, Alfy, so the best I can do is allow him to comment on the measurements and let others put the pieces together for themselves. That said, I do know that the measurements that started all this were misleading and irrelevant to a product like this and that's what started off this interview to try and share the other side so people could see both sides and make up their own mind.
@paulmurray6663
@paulmurray6663 Год назад
Yes You Did👍😉👏👏👏👏
@zenboy863
@zenboy863 2 года назад
Great interview, I'm very happy with the Mojo 2, it has a bigger sound then my Oppo Sonica and it allows me to use power hungry headphones away from home. Although I dont have Mscaler money, I will probably sell both and get a Hugo 3 if and when it comes out.
@lwwells
@lwwells 2 года назад
Sounds like we have similar ears. I don't even consider other company's DACs anymore.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Glad you liked the interview and your Mojo 2, ZB. I'm with you, Luke, (mostly) - Chord and Schiit are my two clear preferences for DACs so far. I keep searching for something even better than the Chord approach, but I'm yet to find it.
@MW-ii5nb
@MW-ii5nb 2 года назад
Mojo 2 was tested to be fairly good. That doesn't mean the mscaler is.
@lwwells
@lwwells 2 года назад
@@MW-ii5nb "Good"? Maybe you mean "worth the money". When you get to products this costly, that will always be highly subjective. And I'm not convinced we all have the same wiring between our ears.
@MW-ii5nb
@MW-ii5nb 2 года назад
@@lwwells I mean from a performance perspective in comparison to other dacs in the same category. Worth is dependent to the individual.
@pauldavies6037
@pauldavies6037 Год назад
The facts that Rob has done real listening tests live mic feed to digital output and is honest about the results says a lot how many designers have done that ?Digital is not simple and there is still along way to go to make "perfect"
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Well said. Sadly, some just want to read a graph (even if it's irrelevant data) and make conclusions from that.
@DaveJ6515
@DaveJ6515 Год назад
@@PassionforSound they are free to read the graphs. I prefer to listen to music.
@DaveJ6515
@DaveJ6515 Год назад
18:15 is the key to everything. Those who look at measurements will dismiss that as “inaudible”. Go figure
@ceannairereibiliunach8133
@ceannairereibiliunach8133 Год назад
@@DaveJ6515 yet those graphs mean that what you are hearing is junk hence you choose to live a fantasy .
@vismantasbagdonas4699
@vismantasbagdonas4699 6 месяцев назад
everything is correct. external clock via long wiring is inputing significant jitter. human ear understands that as "musical" or 3D sound... clock must me maximum 2 cm from processor, not 30+ cm
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 месяцев назад
This is not the clock for the DAC
@aodhanmorrissey
@aodhanmorrissey 2 года назад
Great video thanks Lachlan! Always good to get a long chat about an engineers response to a lot of the discourse we see on RU-vid. We don't get that often enough, especially in the audiophile space. I totally agree with Rob that our perceptive systems are much more complex than we initially thought. Try telling someone 15 years ago that a human being can tell the difference between a 240hz and a 360hz display and they would laugh at you
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Exactly! Great example with the displays.
@humanbass
@humanbass 2 года назад
Actually most people can't tell above 240hz. Especially that basically no game actually reaches 360hz.
@aodhanmorrissey
@aodhanmorrissey 2 года назад
@@humanbass were not talking about most people here though. Just like with audio, those who consume high refresh rate content are of course much more likely to see a difference in those higher rates. The point I'm making is that the difference IS noticeable by the human eye, which challenges several pre-conceived scientific notions of how our brains work. Just like how the miniscule time domain errors discussed in the video are noticeable by the human ear, despite years of research saying otherwise.
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
Where can I find the test results and white papers on displays. To prove that's the case.
@hex7332
@hex7332 Год назад
@@humanbass That's because most people aren't trained to play at 360hz. I thought the same before I upgraded to 360hz. After few months with a 360hz panel, I can say the visual fidelity clearly does make a difference in competitive play.
@mattharwood4413
@mattharwood4413 2 года назад
Once again, you have shown courage to discuss issues that seem arouse hostility in some viewers. I appreciate how you emphasize "It's your experience, It's my experience" and is subjective. You also express the difficulties of black and white thinking to a discussion. I as well appreciate Rob's willingness to appear to discuss the measurements of the M scaler. I think manufacturers like Chord must be ready for this kind of scrutiny and have such measurements and descriptions available before the scrutiny. The flip side is that some of the audiophile sites seem to prefer "GotchYa" tactics and "snake oil". It is much better to be open to both opinions and explore for oneself what one thinks and hears. Thank you for making that more possible.
@colingreen4357
@colingreen4357 2 года назад
I’ve not read the ASR review so I don’t know if the RFI issue with the m-scaler was identified; it certainly wasn’t mentioned in the interview with Rob. To my mind, the RFI introduced through the BNC connections is the biggest problem with the m-scaler technology in its current form. I have a Dave a bought a Blu II, which contained the first incarnation of the technology, though my understanding is that it’s reproduced in all material respects in the stand-alone m-scaler device. There was a significant increase in detail, depth and soundstage, but this was accompanied by a brittle harshness in the mids and highs that rendered timbres in those regions very artificial and wearying: the opposite of what I heard with the Dave alone. Eventually, on the head-fi thread Rob stated that the noise from the m-scalar processing (over a million taps) passed RFI into the Dave (which is why the two couldn’t be incorporated into a single unit as some requested), but he didn’t think it was significant, and described me as an outlier. His ears are the ultimate arbiter. He seems to have accepted that this might be a problem however, as the whole business of RFI filters on the BNC cables then started up (it was actually his suggestion), and when he developed the separate m-scaler he introduced RFI filters on the BNC outputs. I also understand he now uses the WAVE cables for BNC at home, with filters along the whole length of the cables. I was reliably informed by the developer of the WAVE cables that the stand-alone m-scale suffered the same RFI issues as when it was in the Blu II. There has even been an BNC to optical to BNC converter developed to overcome these RFI issues, apparently with good results. I fairness, I should say that many have used the m-scaler without noticing any such issues, and it might be limited to the Dave, the highest resolving Chord DAC, and only Chord DAC currently available developed before the m-scaler technology (perhaps RFI is addressed better in later models). Also, many Dave owners have not had a problem. To my ears however, and that of some others, the RFI induced noise is a serious setback. The Dave sans m-scaler might not be as detailed, but for me it’s more tonally accurate and listenable. I’ll be interested to hear your views when you review the Dave.
@daysofgrace2934
@daysofgrace2934 Год назад
It would be good to get Amir, Rob & yourself on a Zoom roundtable...
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
That would be interesting, but I've already lost too much time to this and my curiosity has been sated
@RobWhittlestone
@RobWhittlestone 6 месяцев назад
THIS WAS TOTALLY INSPIRATIONAL AND A VINDICATION OF MY LONG-HELD BELIEF AS A PHYSICIST AND AN AUDIOPHILE. For me this is one of the most significant interviews in my audiophile experience, now 53 years (and counting!) I have long held the belief that measurements are not the whole story and after over 50 years of critical detailed listening have had some experiences that bore this out. One significant event was my purchase of an amplifier to replace my Leak Delta 70. On paper it measured like the textbook on amplifier design and received rave technical reviews. After 3 weeks of listening, i couldn't bear to hear it any more and gave it to a relative. That was the last time i relied on the test results to sell me a component. Another experience is my use of supertweeters to add air and realism despite the fact that my ears should not be able to hear the frequencies they reproduce. But an A/B test is very conclusive in favour of the supertweeters. So bottom line: satisfy the psychoacoustics and the quality of the experience will improve. Enjoyment follows. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 месяцев назад
I'm glad you liked the interview, Rob. As you say, the psychoacoustics are so important. The key thing that's often overlooked is that we are still learning about how we perceive sounds (including ultrasonics that we can't consciously hear) so any measurements HAVE to be incomplete until we learn what it is that we should be measuring.
@RobWhittlestone
@RobWhittlestone 6 месяцев назад
@@PassionforSound i couldn't agree more. This is why I am skeptical of channels/websites that "trash" products based solely on measurements without the extensive listening tests that Rob has performed. What a unique and privileged position he has to be able to conduct such detailed comparisons! Most of us would give our right arm for such a chance! Until it's clear what parameters play which role, it's premature to condemn any product. The empirical fanatics also deny cables have a significant influence. Anecdote: to choose my analog interconnect I auditioned two sets of interconnects for weeks. It quickly became clear that one set was unlistenable for long periods (the musicians played the same melody but not together) and another was extremely musical and can be listened to for hours and hours on end. I chose the more musical of the two. At the end of the day it's about musical enjoyment, not measurements. All the best, Rob in Switzerland PS. In my physics degree we had an acoustics specialisation which I and friends also took. In my year were both Andrew Jones (star loudspeaker designer) and Arthur Khoubessarian ()of Pink Triangle and Funk Firm fame - inspirational turntable designer).
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 6 месяцев назад
Oh wow. What a cool opportunity!
@JTB--
@JTB-- 2 года назад
I had the Hugo TT2 & M-Scaler and liked it a lot. But in the end I sold both of them after a few weeks for funds to buy other Gear and Headphones. Just too expensive for my wallet at the end of the day for my needs. I recently got the Burson Conductor 3X Gran Tourer All in One and it's a direct competitor with the Hugo TT2 for half the cost. I've learned the hard way that Price does not always translate to best sound. It's all subjective. I prefer the Burson House sound over Chord's
@MrJMellin
@MrJMellin Год назад
I would argue that above a certain quality&price point the discussion of better than the other is the wrong question. Instead it's just a matter of taste
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Johan, I definitely think there is a point where the gains to be had are minimal and the extra details, etc. aren't always necessary or preferable from an enjoyment perspective. The idea that there's no difference (based on the measurements) doesn't stack up when you actually listen to them, but the idea that it's all subjective preference absolutely does 🙂
@MAELOB
@MAELOB 2 года назад
Great interview in trying to clarify stuff with the actual designer. I know some already made their minds regardless of explanations but also I am sure a lot of people really find this video useful and very informative.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
Robs Explanations without proof Vs ASR explanations with proof
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Glad you enjoyed it, MAELOB. No doubt some want to stick to preset biases and hold onto the irrelevant measurements as proof, but my aim was to share this with those happy to explore and better understand. I'm glad you found this interesting.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound you will say anything to cover up for snake oil
@garethsnaim8174
@garethsnaim8174 2 года назад
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe Perhaps its time to put the mouse down, maybe go outside, get a bit of sunlight, perhaps get a life, that type of thing.
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
@@garethsnaim8174 I just watched this video, and I still see no proof the product actually improves what comes out of my speakers.
@roopbhadury
@roopbhadury Год назад
This is one of those videos where I wish one could 'double' or 'triple' like a video. Kudos to you, Lachlan.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Thank you, Roop! I'm glad you liked it 🙂
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 2 года назад
If spending that kind of money (for the M-Scaler) I would consider a high end desktop running HQ Player.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
By all accounts, HQ Player can get very close to the M-Scaler, but doesn't quite match it (according to an extensive review by Audio Bacon) and also is more fiddly (there are LOTS of settings to consider) and less versatile (it will only work for a computer as your source). I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that there are pros and cons in both directions (the M-Scaler is really only ideal with Chord DACs and has to be with the DAC whereas HQ Player can be used on your source computer, but can send to Roon endpoints I believe)
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound I think the comment about not quite matching it is very subjective and system dependent. HQ Player has so many setting that picking the right one for your gear and taste is going to be a arduous task for sure. One reviewer that likes the HQ Player more (I think he said that) is Golden Sound. Who, along with you is one I have a lot of trust in. At this level not sure better is term I would use more like preferred.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
That's very true about preferences being important and I'm not saying it's better, just that Audio Bacon found M-Scaler to be preferable. I tried HQ Player briefly, but found the range of options and settings onerous to wade through trying to find the right combination. I might need to revisit it sometime...
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound Golden Sound has created a set up file ( I think it is for the Holo Audio May ) that he found works best for the majority of music. Good luck would love to hear your comments. One thing that is important is that your DAC is galvanically isolated, and I found the USB connection was the preferred connection with the Holo Audio May KTE
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll throw HQ Player into my schedule for a revisit (it'll be quite late in the year at this point)
@TTykwer
@TTykwer 2 года назад
Now, I think it'd be nice and fair to have an interview with ASR to respond to Rob's comments on his product in this interview.
@ChrisMag100
@ChrisMag100 2 года назад
The trouble with Amir is that he seems resistant to acknowledging when he misses something in his tests or uses poor testing methods. For example, in his JC2 preamp review, he criticized its performance but failed to realize that he had used the trims in a way which shunted input voltage to ground. I politely explained his mistake and got not response in the thread.
@DBravo29er
@DBravo29er 2 года назад
Amir runs a forum and YT channel. He's got plenty of platform to respond if he chooses to do so.
@brandonburr4900
@brandonburr4900 2 года назад
I don't think this would add anything useful to the debate. I'm not a shill for chord products, but I will believe the designer Rob watts any day of the week.
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
What did he measure wrong ?
@sergeysmelnik
@sergeysmelnik 2 года назад
Measurements dont lie
@erics.4113
@erics.4113 2 года назад
Rob starts the interview by stating that he didn't read the ASR article? That's all I needed to hear. Why should I bother with another 49 minutes of video for a guy that couldn't take 10 minutes to look at the bench measurements? Seriously, kick rocks. That told me all I needed to know.
@mychaelsmith6874
@mychaelsmith6874 Год назад
When are people going to stop confusing the phrases, "high fidelity" and "it makes my ears happy." This machine will, at best, change the sound from the original input and people will pay 5k for it because "audiophile."
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
This product is designed 100% with the intention to more accurately reproduce the analog waveform as it was originally recorded. People saying otherwise aren't taking the time to understand the intent of the product.
@paulok2153
@paulok2153 2 года назад
I love my mojo and have no idea what the M-scaler is for, its clearly not for normal people at its price.
@SaintKimbo
@SaintKimbo 2 года назад
Agreed, I can't understand why these people get all butt hurt about this issue, they are basically, acting like 'White Knights' for people with too much money available to them. I mean, if you've got 14 grand to drop on a hi fi device that, allegedly, improves your $13000 dac, you don't really have that many issues, and you really don't need people telling you to buy a $500 dac, because, "it's just as good".
@sergeysmelnik
@sergeysmelnik 2 года назад
You're right. It for people who believe in unicorns and Santa
@kafkaworkshere
@kafkaworkshere 8 месяцев назад
I have the Mojo, the Mojo 2 and the Qutest. They all do the same thing but to different degrees. They all pack an FPGA chip and upsample performing so many taps. None of them radically transform the sound, though the Mojo 2 has an EQ I absolutely love. You can't create higher resolution. You can, however, improve the transients. The best I can compare this to is the black levels on a flatscreen. The darker the blacks, the more colors pop and the more textured and dimensional the image appears. Better black levels won't give you higher resolution but it will enhance how the picture is displayed. I noticed this on the Mojo, more so on the Mojo 2, and definitely on the Qutest. I didn't hear more bass or an obvious amount of detail in the highs, but I'd hear these little nuances in the music, which would show up when I least expected. We talk about speed and attack. When it's sharper and better delineated, you notice things that were there all along but they stand out better. Some examples. I've had tracks I've heard for years, always thinking a certain note was continuous, unaware that it was actually segmented. I've had moments when it occurred to me, for the first time on a song I thought I knew, that the texture of a note or instrument was more complex than I'd thought. I'd hear pick work or a flash of reverb that I'd never given any thought about. About a second into Led Zeppelin's "Going to California," someone inhales off-mic. I don't know why I didn't hear it before. There's a moment, on Billy's "Still Rock and Roll to Me," when the effect of some filter on the vocals called attention to itself in ways I'd previously missed. They're just little things, sculpted out of the mix and heard differently - in my case, on headphones.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 8 месяцев назад
Great explanation! Thanks for sharing
@aussie8114
@aussie8114 2 года назад
I have no idea what any of this means, nor do I know what an m scaler is. I presume though given I’ve got through life up till now without one I needn’t be too worried if it works or not 🤷🏼‍♂️
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Yep. You should be fine 🙂
@samlaser1975
@samlaser1975 Год назад
I won't say that I fully understood your conversation with Rob Watts - both of you are a universe away from my understanding of Audio Engineering. All I can say is that I have the TT2 and MScaler and just as I can marvel at the miracle of television, telephone and electricity without understanding how they work, I can also marvel at the improved sound that the MScaler has provided to my system-without understanding how it works.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
That's what matters in the end, Sam - that you're enjoying your music with the gear you have. The rest is kind of irrelevant 🙂
@stevebedard8541
@stevebedard8541 Год назад
Great stuff - thanks for putting in the leg work. Around the 30min mark there seems to be a confusion between tonality and timbre (and a little later, transients). When asked about tonality and frequency response, Rob comments on timbre, not tonality. The resulting discussion suggests the original reviewer is simply ignorant, but actually the discussion is off course and both Rob and the reviewer are correct.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
My pleasure! I think timbre and tonality are largely interchangeable, Steve. It's all about the sound being natural and true-to-life in the end
@stevebedard8541
@stevebedard8541 Год назад
@@PassionforSound yeah. They get used interchangeably all the time - as in, ‘that guitar has a great tone’. But there really is a definition of tonality that is related directly to frequency response. Not trying to nit-pic and I love that you discourage black and white opinions here. But I think the discussion got caught on semantics.
@ericstefko4852
@ericstefko4852 2 года назад
As a Six Sigma blackbelt I recognize the benefits of data and measurements but also aware of the challenges of using data to make assessments.
@dungysphincter7974
@dungysphincter7974 2 года назад
Measurements don't lie though....people do. I wonder if Chord has contacted Amir from ASR.....very doubtful.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Yes, and people can lie using measurements (and ignorance)
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound accusing people without evidence, without evidence is all you are about
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I didn't accuse anyone of anything. My point was simply that data can be misrepresented and that ignorance can add to the chances of this happening.
@nacarp2000
@nacarp2000 2 года назад
I better be careful then, kerpow!
@user-rd9nj6xt3v
@user-rd9nj6xt3v 9 месяцев назад
I don't know why some people seem out to get Rob Watts, he dose his own thing, and is one of the few who does, he gives much of his time, shares alot of his information in a calm and sincere way. I happened to buy a Tube Technology DAC64 and Transport back about 20 years ago. It sounded differentiate from anything else I had heard, and I fell in love with what it did in my system. I wanted to know why, it brought me to hearing about Rob as it was his design. I like his stuff, I don't like something I don't buy it, simple.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 9 месяцев назад
I agree and don't understand either. No one is forced to buy or keep anything they don't like. 🤷
@Rondoggy67
@Rondoggy67 17 дней назад
@@PassionforSoundNo, but they can be tricked into buying things by people who purport to be reviewers but are actually shills or clowns. Giving people facts about products enables them to make better choices. If something is badly designed, performs poorly or is faulty then people should be informed.
@VegasVaron
@VegasVaron Год назад
It would have been useful if the gentleman had looked at the ARS review of his product, and then point by point refute ARS’s findings. The fact that he ignored the review speaks volumes. The claim on the Chord M-Scaler website (03/06/2023) is it “…upscale standard 44.1kHz to digital audio up to 705.6kHz…” is akin to saying you can make a four egg omelet with only two eggs. You can added extra ingredients so that it has the same volume (pun intended), BUT it’s never going to be a four egg omelet. I call snake oil!
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
You've misunderstood how upsampling is intended to work. It's not creating data that's not there, it's based on the premise of using more advanced algorithms to predict where the intersample data points lie to help more accurately reconstruct the analog waveform. All upsampling/oversampling DACs do this internally. The aim of the M-Scaler is to do it better rather than relying on the DAC.
@user-es3hq5zk4e
@user-es3hq5zk4e 5 месяцев назад
mscaler is proven junk,simple as@@PassionforSound
@franknicholson7598
@franknicholson7598 2 года назад
Thank you for the opportunity to hear Rob’s comments about the digital/analogue world and how neuroscience plays such an important part in what we perceive. Towards the end of the interview Rob discusses recording live in a church using pro-audio gear and comparing the live vs recorded playback. Rob says the differences (depth and transient attack) he attributes to the ADC filtering. Surely then, all DACs will fail to properly reproduce an accurate facsimile of the original sound? I think Rob is saying that the Chord M-Scaler + DACs are better than the competition but all are flawed. Rob said he is working on an ADC , it would be very interesting to hear a review of a live recording using a leading pro-Audio ADC and one of Robs ADC designs and then played back through Chord products.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Glad you liked the video. Yes, you're absolutely right that all digital recordings are reducing the maximum sense of depth according to Rob. He is working on an ADC and I'm personally excited to hear something recorded using it because his approach to combining digital audio science and psychoacoustics knowledge seem to produce consistently great results IMO
@nonchalantd
@nonchalantd Год назад
nice hoodie
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Thanks! 🙂 I can't recall which one I was wearing in this video, but it's probably available in the merchandise store linked in the description. 😉
@JingoLoBa57
@JingoLoBa57 Год назад
“The next measurement I questioned was… “ both of you laugh again. Very unbiased for sure. Not. You’re interviewing without your notes and Rob is trying to answer without reading the post/ watch the video. This is a messy discussion on both sides.
@jelt
@jelt 2 года назад
Rob Watts reminds me of Nelson Pass, another one of my favourite engineers. While they both understand the theory, and measure copiously, both talk consistently and repeatedly about 'listening tests'. This sort of humility and curiosity, and authenticity to the music is something I respect a lot.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
If he was serious he should talk about CONTROLLED listening tests.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I completely agree, jelt! There's a lot to be said for years and years of combining measurements AND listening tests.
@goglea
@goglea 2 года назад
They slowly, slowly deviated the subject and answered what they wanted. Way is the measurements so of the original one? Because the £4000 - £5000 up-simpler has another filter that works best only with 2 DAC's, Hugh TT2 and Dave. Is so simple.... un upscale filter cost around $100 and Chord is selling it for 4 5 grands. Rob Watson is a great engineer but the upscaler is dot exactly what people think of it (the best). The ideea of the vest was born by fake reviews 👏 👍 😀 Measurements shows how purely this device resamples. We can get exactly the same with other devices such as 200 300 DAC used as upscaler. Is really so simple to see but people makes it harder to understand by talking nonsense 😒
@Lesterandsons
@Lesterandsons 2 года назад
ASR drives crazy 🤣
@r423sdex
@r423sdex 2 года назад
Amir listened to the m scaler and the Dave dac. With some of the best headphones you can get ! Rob uses the same one's
@masterxyr
@masterxyr 2 года назад
Subjectivity, sure. We are terribly poor at being objective where even all of our senses are Not that accurate and definitely make us believe ourselves more than the world at our feet. Take the verb to be, for example. Most instances of how we use it are at least questionable. Anyway, we make machines to measure, see, hear, gauge etc, beyond our own subjectivity and biases, but it does take a long time for us to recognise what else we can't sense, and create better and more adequate machines to venture into the hitherto unknown. Of course, if everything were so subjectively impalpable, there would be no conversation to be had. As others have said, measurements are only part of the story. Always listen.
@guyboisvert66
@guyboisvert66 5 месяцев назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BYTlN6wjcvQ.html
@dungysphincter7974
@dungysphincter7974 2 года назад
What I would like to see is the conversation between Amir from ASR, and Rob Watts from Chord..... I would be more interested in seeing Rob Watts response on Amirs finding on ASR web site. This would be the conversation worth seeing. Would Rob Watts dare to take on Amirs results on ASR website by going over detail by detail on Amirs findings? I doubt it! If he could explain the results, why not Rob Watts explain them to the Amir from ASR, then show the results from the interview between Amir, and Rob Watts, and then see how the Chord M-Scaler could be improved on. Anything less than that is just trying to justify the Chord M-Scaler with a lot of useless one sided gibberish. I trust Amirs unbiased findings over Rob Watts biased gibberish. Is the Chord M-Scaler over priced at US $2,950.....most definitely.
@christiharris292
@christiharris292 2 года назад
TBH, I didn't understand much of the discussion, but I will say hats off to you for taking this up and for Rob being open and sharing his process and thoughts. proud to be a patreon
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
If you understood you will realize it’s mostly BS
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Harris, that comment only goes to show that you either didn't watch or didn't understand it yourself
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound Well please remind me, at which point did he prove that this device makes a positive audible difference in sound quality?
@haraldgmeiner4507
@haraldgmeiner4507 2 года назад
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe I have read your comments and I really got the impression that you are not critical but just negative and destructive. Why?
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@haraldgmeiner4507 very negative to and destructive against fraudsters and their accomplices
@NeilBlanchard
@NeilBlanchard 2 года назад
Very interesting interview - thank you for doing it! I think that measurements without connection to listening, means that those measurements have a very limited value. And it is all too easy to think that somehow by measuring something - that it is somehow "accurate" - is the issue. A measurement without any context is not helpful, and in fact can hinder things.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
Thank God in the end it’s facts that matter and not your opinion or mine or Rob wallet’s
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Well said, Neil. I'm glad you enjoyed the interview. There are way too many variables in audio to boil it down to just 3 or 4 measurements that get used for every type of audio device. And even with more measurements available, some things are difficult to correlate from the objective numbers to the subjective listening experiences as Rob discussed when he talked about the very fine adjustments required to properly tune the filters.
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound is that another of your opinion or you are now an electrical science expert with replicable facts?
@NeilBlanchard
@NeilBlanchard 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound Something that I learned about higher resolution digital recordings and acoustics, as it relates to transients - is that any sound that has an "instant" attack - is essentially the sum of many orders of harmonics. So the erroneous idea that we only need to capture the frequencies for which we can hear the *pitch* of i.e. up to 20kHz or so is simply wrong. The theory goes that since we use high frequencies for hearing the direction of the source of the sound - the breaking of the proverbial twig is why we have this ability. We can sense the higher harmonics as part of the transient waveform, even though we don't hear their pitch when they are on their own, as it were. Very quick transients are approaching square waves, and that means they have many orders of harmonic overtones. We either need good dithering, or higher sampling rates than 44.1kHz - or both - in order to hear the best, more accurate transients.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Harris, its my understanding from having researched and explored as much information as I can. Science is as much about asking questions and critical inquiry as it is about taking the same set of measurements on every device regardless of its function.
@andrewcook4072
@andrewcook4072 Год назад
It's good to hear about live sound listening. But, anything that comes through a PA system, although live is only as accurate as the equipment and pointless to say it's live sound. So the only way you can test properly is any un miked sound. Orchestra, jazz and brass band.. now I have heard many a live jazz band, and by Christ when those symbols or sax hit the high notes it can make you flinch, depending how close you are.. so long story short, I'm glad it's toned down when recorded, live music in the most part sounds bad.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
Yes, definitely recordings of acoustic, non-amplified/reinforced audio is the only true measure of how a recording translates to a live performance. I need to go and try some more live music to test this out for myself again.
@klepp19
@klepp19 Год назад
Bottom line just get the Qutest and be happy! They sound the same right up to the Dave!🙂
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
If only that were true...
@felixtalyn6357
@felixtalyn6357 2 года назад
I've worked in a field where this sort of measurement debate arises often. And I think it's a good thing overall; because we need to think critically about measurements. But that also means not taking for granted that measurements often only make sense within a particular context-they don't necessarily tell you everything you need to know all at once. When it comes to the design of audio products, I assume that product designers/engineers are sufficiently competent that they will attend to the relevant interpretive considerations when they conduct measurements. I don't assume they will measure mindlessly. Unfortunately, I do think some reviewers measure in this mindless fashion, and so they produce results that prima facie look bad, but they can't necessarily give anything more than a prima facie-superficial-comment. The value of such commentary is then inflated by the assumption that the measurement itself tells the full story; that no other interpretive considerations bring to bear. I think we need to adopt a more deflationary attitude to measurements-unless we're sufficiently competent to interpret them and understand their real-world implications. I know I definitely am not, at least in this area. But I'm also not sure that those enthusiastically reporting measurements are any better-equipped in this regard simply because they happen to possess measuring equipment. To put it bluntly, numbers are objective, yes; but understanding what the numbers *mean* may require a bit more than knowing the number itself, and if we want to get into *that discussion*, then I think we had better be prepared to learn a bit more. I appreciate Rob's effort here, but I think some are just going to lose sight of that.
@felixtalyn6357
@felixtalyn6357 2 года назад
I should've added: It's good that Rob mentions psychoacoustics because, well, that matters. If you are designing an audio product for human beings (i.e., one that needs to meet the listening needs of actual human subjects and not some idealised "listener" that doesn't actually exist) then taking into account how humans *actually hear what they hear* is hugely important.
@RyzzaJ
@RyzzaJ 2 года назад
Well said, and it applies in so many areas outside of audio too 👏
@DBravo29er
@DBravo29er 2 года назад
Very well said. 👍
@BwanaJesuasifiwe
@BwanaJesuasifiwe 2 года назад
The problem is the measurements don’t go far enough to convince the suckers of snake oil products, we need a measurement instrument to measure placebo, fraud and ignorance
@PSM-IPADZ_OX
@PSM-IPADZ_OX 2 года назад
Dear Felix, most probably you don’t know or care about the credentials of AMIR from ASR because you are insinuating the credibility of him not knowing about audio science. You may not understand objective measurements but don’t assume others too are ignorant or in the dark like you.
@hoihallo2904
@hoihallo2904 Год назад
Basically asking the designer of the faulty product his opinion doesn't seem like a good thing. He is part of the company trying to sell you the product. So in no way objective
@error4159
@error4159 2 года назад
You can do everything this scaler can do for free on Linux with MPD and the SOX resampler.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Except it's not using the same algorithms and may not be producing the exact same results. I'm not saying the M-Scaler is the best or only option, just pointing out that the M-Scaler, HQ Player and SOX are not identical so each will likely have it's pros and cons
@error4159
@error4159 2 года назад
@@PassionforSound Without comparing the code there's no way to be 100% sure that each is using different code. If this wasn't a niche part of a niche hobby, I'm sure a lawsuit would have settled this issue by now, lol.
@Lesterandsons
@Lesterandsons 2 года назад
Yes pc is the way to audio treatment we neeed
@jabezhane
@jabezhane Год назад
The crux of this is we are finally able to get our hands on sophisticated test equipment that allows us to really see how these expensive devices actually work or don't work. For so long we have had to take the manufacturers word for it. The result? We are now finding a lot of 'legendary' people in the Hi-Fi field are really not that qualified or qualified at all. It's causing a lot of embarrassment for a lot of people that have have reigned unquestioned since the 70's and 80's. Time to clean house and put some of them out to pasture.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
That's not at all the case. The reality of it is that some people choose to believe that irrelevant measurements tell the whole story just because they've been measured with an expensive piece of equipment. Part of my reason for reaching out to Rob Watts about this was to understand what the data wasn't telling us and there are huge gaps in the data Amir has provided. If you don't like the M-Scaler or Chord, that's completely fine - it's not a brand or product for everyone, but the claims being made about the M-Scaler at ASR are just incorrect, based on ignorance and an over-reliance on the fact that an APx555 has been used. I could use the best surgeon's tools available, but it doesn't mean you should trust me to conduct a complex operation on someone.
@jabezhane
@jabezhane Год назад
@@PassionforSound Okay so get Rob to test it and show us what it really does then? It's just a piece of electronic kit after all. Not some magical box. Get him to measure it and show how it really works. But I bet you won't.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound Год назад
I won't because I don't feel the need to. I've listened to it for myself and everything Rob has said stacks up when I listen to it. If someone can produce relevant measurements that disprove Rob's claims, that's a whole different story, but knowing that Rob's approach involves BOTH measurements (in the digital and analog domains) as well as listening tests implies that the measurements of his devices will stack up where they matter. As we discussed here, the jitter performance isn't so good from the M-Scaler for a good reason. That's an example of Rob merging real life performance and an understanding of the measurements that matter.
@jabezhane
@jabezhane Год назад
@@PassionforSound Yeah...expected that.
@fwabble
@fwabble Год назад
THIS
@PaoloCaminiti
@PaoloCaminiti Год назад
He lost me at "I didn't really read ASR review...." Seriously?
@WeeWeeJumbo
@WeeWeeJumbo 2 года назад
Well I'm no expert, so... pass the popcorn
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
I'm with you on that one. Well done for not feeling the need to pretend you're an expert as many others seem to. 🍿
@Lesterandsons
@Lesterandsons 2 года назад
And a lot cheaper
@jelt
@jelt 2 года назад
I don't think anyone disagrees that measurements are useful. But do we know ALL the measurements necessary to make a great DAC? There is strong empirical evidence that the answer is no, which I think is kinda the crux of this video.
@PassionforSound
@PassionforSound 2 года назад
Well said, jelt!
@guyboisvert66
@guyboisvert66 5 месяцев назад
Science advances by presenting evidence that can be proven and repeated. That's it that's all. If you disagree with the the fact that we can compare the performance of DACs in regards of human hearing with measurements, then come up with your own blind tests done in a controlled environment and present your results. This is how science works.
@imad1996
@imad1996 2 месяца назад
Measurements give an idea but passing 1khz signal and checking the outcome is not an indication of good performance.
@Nephilim-81
@Nephilim-81 2 года назад
God Lachlan. This is incredible and I don’t know how you got a hold of this man. Many people like myself, consider Rob Watts the peoples champion when it comes to digital audio. He’s amazing and apparently immeasurable. Lol. Anyhow. I thank you a ton for this and most importantly I learned a lot. Talk soon and terrific job. Oh and I wanted to share with you that I got a WA22 from Woo Audio! Love the amp. A real game changer. Much like when I introduced the Qutest into my chain a few years back. ;)
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