Beams, Bi's And The Ball?!? | The Giggle | Doctor Who Special #3 Reaction & Review 

Part of the reason why the catch was cut like that is because Ncuti couldn’t catch a ball to save his life. They needed to cut it so that the ball was already in his hand.

most world leaders had agreed to declare the Doctor the President of the world in case of attack. makes him the one in charge as soon as bad guys appear. Kate was the one who set that in motion somehow.

You missed an important line in this discussion of the bi-regeneration. Something along the lines of, “healing doesn’t have to be so linear.” Ncuti Gatwa is the older doctor. He has David Tenant’s memories. Ncuti Gatwa is the doctor that has has benefited from Tenant hanging out with Donna’s family and healing, and that is why he is able to hug Tenant and comfort him. It’s a goofy concept, sure… but it does make this whole bi-regeneration concept less problematic to me. Maybe we will get a send off episode that clarifies this with Tenant.

They already went back to New York with Capaldi’s superhero Christmas special. He was trying to stabilize things with that gem the kid swallowed. I believe he can’t go back to New York in decades that Amy and Rory are.

Watching real time...the Doctor as Capaldi had been given the title of President of the Earth for emergencies...It still stands in this episode - hence asking permission...Good call back

there's a popular theory that David Tennant's doctor will continue to live and regenerate and eventually revisit "some of the old faces" and eventually become the curator of the museum as we saw in the 50th anniversary episode.

Donna met Rose* at the end of her first episode as a continuing companion - Partners in Crime (the Adipose episode), met her again in Turn Left and again in the two part finale - Donna is responsible for the Doctor clone that goes with Rose to Pete's world. *Rose also appeared in other episodes that season - usually on a screen mouthing the word "Doctor!" bur never when the Doctor or Donna can see her.

The idea I got is the bi-generation is like an edit, where the 14th doctor was meant to have a long life and the toy maker messed up reality and dragged 15 in early. So Ncuti is based on tenant's final form of terms of emotional state and when 14 dies his regen will feel like a scene cut and he will one second be with Donna’s family and then he’ll be on the helipad as Ncuti

I think the most important part of the ending, which I think maybe you didn't fully recognize at first (I for sure didn't), is that the 15th Doctor is freeing the 10th/14th of all of that immense accumulated trauma.

The Giggle was perfect. This was truly the first of these specials that felt like a celebration of 60 years of Doctor Who. I loved the framing device of John Logie Baird and the invention of television. Really reminded me of that episode from series 2 about Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation. It had all these great callbacks and mentions to so many characters, most if not all of whom are no longer accessible to the Doctor like Amy and Rose Tyler. Is it wishful thinking to hope that no mention of Martha means Freema Agyeman will pop up again soon? Even though it's very clear that she wasn't mentioned because she lived a happy life and their story didn't end tragically. Neil Patrick Harris was fantastic! I loved the switching of accents. Evil camp is always fun, especially when it’s as sinister as this was. And the “Spice Up Your Life” dance sequence. I still have no idea what the hell bi-generation means for the series. I mean we heard from all the Doctors previously in the reboot that regeneration was super dodgy but making a whole new one is not a twist I was expecting! But this establishes that in a one-on-one-hundred-million-billion-billion chance, Time Lords can reproduce asexually. However how many times can the Doctor make a copy of themselves? The end fight with the Toymaker had the frenetic pace of Ten's fight with the Sycorax way back in 2006. I loved Ncuti’s energy. He really felt like a showman, much more than the other Doctors previously. And because they said he processed his trauma, Fifteen seems like he’s going to be a Doctor who is having fun and not haunted by his dark deeds or running from something. Which is a Doctor RTD never gave himself the chance to write. It's like Fourteen was supposed to go on this journey of trauma healing and at the end regenerate into the happy and fun Fifteen but the Toymaker got in the way. That theme for Fifteen that Murray Gold wrote is also phenomenal! And it looks like we have another RTD mystery box on our hand with The Meep’s boss still left unanswered and now the Toymaker’s “The One Who Waits.” Let’s face it, it’s probably The Meep’s boss. I love that Fourteen’s costume got split between the two so Fifteen spends the entire episode in underwear! But because he got the shows, not only does Fourteen speed the entire 3rd act barefoot and commando, which is hilarious in and of itself, Fifteen feels even more naked. Donna’s “Do you come in a range of colors” is perfect because it addresses Ncuti’s blackness without making it a big deal. _Because It’s not!_ I love that they let Ncuti keep his true accent. I love that we didn’t have to say goodbye to Tennant again. Not really. That scene of him having lunch with Donna's family, really his family, was just perfect and I'm happy that his last words are technically, “I’ve never been so happy in my life." You can really hear Tennant’s Scottish accent on “wheelchair accessible.” It really feels like they are setting up a UNIT spin-off. And I am here for it! I need it to be Kate, Shirley, Mel, and the Vlinx, whatever the hell that is, and maybe Osgood (fingers crossed).

Donna knew Rose, they had a whole episode together! On top of that, Doctor talked to Donna about her. And they met in the finale, too :)

25:40 Hi Clarus! I believe in one of his Christmas episodes, Return of Doctor Mysterio, Capaldi fixed the New York issue.

Donna did meet 🌹 in series 4 the last three episodes, she’s there when the Half timeLord Docter stays with 🥀 in Pete’s world

As to why they named her Rose - in universe, because she had all the subconscious memories of The Doctor, especially 10, and when she was naming herself she had that name in her head as important. Out of universe, probably just Rusty being all "aah, you see what i did there? Get it? Get it?". Maybe.

NGL, as a Brit, everytime you said "he's not wearing pants," I had a moments confusion :D

Weirdly, I haven't really seen any articles being sniffy about 14 sticking around, although maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Is it possible Tennant is SO beloved that people just want him around, regardless? Ncuti is amazing, right out of the gate. He's insanely charming, can't wait for the new season!

The Gilded Age would be 1870s. It was before the Weeping Angels descended on New York and setup their trap in late 1930s New York. Thus the Doctor would not have been prevented to land in New York. Also possibly it meant that he could not directly go back and rescue Amy and Rory again where they were sent in the 1930s/40s. He has visited New York before and since in extended media.

Following the "therapy out of order" that 15 mentions, I think this has been set up so that Tennant's 14 will have one final story where he regenerates into 15. I don't expect it any time soon - 70th, anybody? I wouldn't be surprised if they've already filmed 15 as he looks now doing his part of a future 14 to 15 regeneration, then being immediately dragged into the bi-generation. They can then film 14's proper regeneration at the end of his story and splice with what (I think) they've filmed of Ncuti already. A long shot, and a long plan, but it makes sense to me.

From what I've read, bi-generation was only possible because of the Toymaker and the reality warping. Ncuti is the older doctor because he was literally dragged back in time for the regeneration. Honestly, it's a little rough to get your head around it. And they definitely need to clarify some minor details. Like the Taris spliting was also a time of (bi-cloning?), because it the same Tardis, one is just from the same future date as 15.

Embrace "The Giggle" you two lol

He called it "television" because that's what it was, vision transported across great distances indirectly and instantaneously. Hence why TVs used to be called "television sets", devices used to aid in the act of television.

They're not the same age. As Ncuti says, "we're doing therapy out of order". When David's Doctor dies, he'll jump back to Ncuti at this point. Ncuti is fine because David spends these years retiring.

Gilded Age is from 1877 to 1900. Not the same year the Ponds got stuck in.

My favorite line from this episode was "The tardis is an idea the toymaker would throw away"

The "New York Problem" might have been fixed by the Capaldi Doctor in the beginning of one of his Christmas specials...- the Music Loving Klingon

All that about Stooky Bill and John Logie Baird is absolutely true. That doll really was the first image seen on TV.🖥😮

I mean, the 2nd game was just simply cutting cards... a simple game of chance. So playing catch had more stakes than that. And the Toymaker is bound to the rules of the game. Fair play. The majority of comments that I've seen, on many reactions... were really happy with this ending. 10/14 deserved this chance to heal and just 'be'. (They are the shortest lived Doctor, in-universe... Ten only lived about 6ish years, and Fourteen for only 15 hours.) The Doctor doesn't have a family with Rose... TenToo, who is half human, does. Their shared existence split at the metacrisis. Our main Doctor has no memories after that. But Fifteen clearly has Fourteen's memories, as he comes after Fourteen. He knew Donna immediately, and says he's fine only because Fourteen 'fixes' himself. So he is older, he comes after. Also, they both won... so each Doctor got a prize. Think of the 2nd Tardis as probably being pulled from a future point. Afterall, it had a jukebox, whereas 14's didn't. (Also, TenToo and Rose have a Tardis... as TenToo was given a piece of the Tardis to grow their own.) And since we know they are time-travelers... all Doctors potentially exist in all of time. So multiple Doctors are always exist at the same time... even if we don't see it. Ncuti shined as Fifteen. Watching he and Tennant together was beautiful. Couldn't have wished for a better ending / beginning. RTD put a nice bow on the 2005-2023 NuWho... and begins anew with Fifteen. Much like how Nine hit the ground running in 2005. Doctor Who is always reinventing itself, while honoring its past. I love it!

Also. Many theories. The way I look at it is as Ncuiti said "doing therapy out of time"....Tennants Doctor lives his life...then when he regenerates...synchs for Ncuiti to come in,,, or Tennant could be the Doctor who becomes the Caretaker who revisits old faces...It's all time...Also He cannot go back to New York in Amy's timeline..she died in the 80'...so I think it's OK

When 14 dies (again) he probably will regenerate into another past Doctor; in "The Day of the Doctor" (the 50th anniversary special), the Curator (who probably is a future version of the Doctor) says to the Doctor You might find yourself revisiting some of his previous faces. (Maybe we will get a Big Finish Audio story where he becomes the Curator)

Toy maker wasn’t racist back in the 60s They just reused the costume from another story Called Marco Polo it was only just one word in a rhyme that was racist that another character spoke

Well he is president of the world so if he wants to greenlight the destruction of Korean satellites then so be it 😂

"You can't go back to New York" The 12th Doctor fixed this at the beginning of "The Return of Doctor Mysterio."

I think the thing with the 'prize' is 14ths prize was The Toymaker being banished, and 15ths prize was his own Tardis. And the bi-generation thing is one of those consequences of 14s trick at the end of the universe. It's supposed to be a myth, but now it's come true. I like to think that the bi-generation was kinda like a paradox where 14 goes and lives the rest of his generation and then when he finally regenerates, he goes back to that moment on the helipad. I think that's why 15 is so touchy feely and happy, he got to live a whole life with his best friend and her family, he did all his healing already

Think of the bigeneration and the 2 Doctors as being like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and how there was supposed to be 1 slayer....then Buffy died for a split second and then there were 2

The Gilded Age is 30 years before where Rory and Ami were sent back to.

18:55 *american* "WELLTHATSALLRIGHTTHEN"

Donna met Rose briefly a few times. Episodes like Turn Left where she's there for just a minute to say something and then the episode where we got the first second David Tennant. She's the one who asks Rose : 'don't you see what he's giving you?' About the human Doctor who can live and die with her.

A note about the toymaker's racism - the original characterisation wasn't racist per se, but it's widely accepted that with the Chinese style outfit he wore, the name 'The Celestial Toymaker' was intended a pun since at the time 'Celestial' was used as a slur towards Chinese people in addition to meaning 'of the stars'. So the Toymaker's racism in this episode was RTD's way of acknowledging it and making that a part of the character's evilness.

As Clarus said, doctor who is a show that often balances camp and goofy with serious and heavy. Moffat once described the show as experimental. There's room for a lot of creative ideas and sometimes it works, other times it doesn't, but that's to be expected from a show that experiments so much. And i think some of the things nerdy is having an issue with in the last couple of specials, are things that will be addressed in later episodes. RTD is known for adding small clues here and there to build up for something. The mavity joke might seem like a quick bit of fun in the wild blue yonder episode, but it could be a running element of weird little changes that is connected with something else.

The toymaker split the doctor so the fact that he has to play two of them is his fault. Here's a dumb question - the Doctor can't go back to New York - is it just the city or is it the state? It's not so much the Doctor as it is the Tardis that can't go to New York. If it's the city he can park the Tardis in Buffalo or if it's the state he can park it in New Jersey and take some other transportation to New York City. Also, it's BS that the Doctor can never see Amy and Rory again. They can travel - go to the Bahamas, go to New Orleans for the Mardi Gras, go to Pasadena for the Rose Parade, go to Hawai'i, heck, they can go to England - none of those are Tardis restricted. If the restriction is that Amy and Rory created a paradox and they're the problem, that's a whole different game - but that's not what was said.

The "prize" thing which I rationalized as they both won they both get a prize..Tennsnt banished him and Ncuti popped out a TARDIS 😂. The whole bi-gen/prize box TARDIS was a bit of an oddity though haha. Donna met Rose, in the parallel world and then in the two part finale where she and the doctor take her "home". Donna didn't name her daughter rose, she transitioned from Jason? And chose her own name from the leftover memory or so it seems.

the Tennant doctor has retired from saving the earth and the universe. He is now in retirement and loves his life and just has fun trips rather than taking his tardis to go back to dangerous times. He may get involved one day, but I think he will work with Donna in Unit.

This isn't the first time that 'Temporal Fission' has occurred in the Whoniverse. Possibly not the first time it has happened to The Doctor himself either. The Time Lords are - and were - not adverse to committing such shenanigans.

The way I saw it (on why the Doctor bi-generated) was because the Toymaker forced the 14th Doctor to have to regenerate, but that technically goes against the rules (maybe...?) so the 14th Doctor was allowed to stay while the requirement of regeneration was also fulfilled. Though, why would the 15th Doctor then be able to play? idk man

I think some of your concerns are resolved by the explanation of how the bi-generation basically pulled the 15th doctor to that point in his timeline because of the weirdness of the Toymaker's abilities. 15 then pulls his Tardis to the same point. He has all the memories of 14s recovery period. He is later in the life of the doctor. So my thought is that eventually 14 properly regenerates into 15 and then 15 has some indeterminate amount of time before he gets pulled into the bi-generation.

There are no plans for the 14th Doctor to return, he's retired and living his life, if anything it will explain his appearance in a hypothetical 70th anniversary, not that having past doctors show up needed an explanation

19:38 that's a good point though, since they bi-generated instead of just a normal regeneration they are technically the same age

Great reaction. But you are over thinking some things. The "Bi" regeneration is not just for Tennant . it gives future writers an "out" to have all the other Doctors be able to return. How many "unseen" Bi-regenerations are out there?... No more having to worry about crossing the "timestreams" and all of that. A new and useful tool has been introduced to make multi-doctor stories possible. It seems to be a "fan favorite" thing to do. By the way, returning companions and enemies are popular too. A woman's hand, picking up an item from out of nowhere, has been used before in Doctor Who. It is a herald of the Master returning. Thanks for all your fun reactions. You two have a style that is unmatched in these reactions.

"He already has a family with Rose." Facts 😂😂😂😂

Everything that happened for most of that weeping angel episode was undone, but the graveyard angel still sent them back to the same time Rory was originally sent back to. They both caused the paradox by jumping off the roof, so I'm pretty sure the Doctor can't go back to NY, specifically from the moment they arrive to the moment they die... did they die together? It was probably on the gravestone. Not a big fan of how they went over the top with that episode, so I can't be smegged to check.

I remember there were more than one episode after Claras "death" where the Doctor was just soo much in his grief that it really was just depressing and not "fun" anymore, and i don't really need much more of that. Of course that came on top of the fact that i really loved Clara, and her "death" for me was maybe the worst moment im whole Doctor Who. And it was also the start where it went down for me since all the later companions where just totally bland and boring for me.

As catch involves someone throwing the ball and someone else catching it, the Toymaker was bound by those rules If he tried anything else it would have been cheating, which he does not do

Picking a better 3rd game seems like a missed opportunity to have them outsmart the Toymaker. They ended up playing a game where it was just luck who was clumsy with the ball first, there being a 2nd Doctor in the game didn't provide any kind of advantage. In fact, it put them at a disadvantage, 2 opportunities for them to mess up the catch for every 1 of the Toymaker's, vs. even odds if only one Doctor was in the game.

I wish you a happy new year 2024.😊😊 Kind regards from Germany.

Tennant has definitely said already that he has no plans to appear on Doctor Who going forward. To me, this episode really felt like RTD apologizing for how Donna's story ended previously, as well as a kind of giving Tennant a victory lap in recognition of him really being the driving force that really catapulted the show into the pop culture juggernaut it is now. I didn't love the bi-generation but I did like where it left Tennant, especially if is the last time we see him on the show. I'm super excited to see your reaction to the Christmas episode.

Missy could have just used a invis watch or vortex manipulator to be up there

Donna actually did meet Rose in the last three episodes of Series 4 (and very briefly in the Series 4 premiere, although she didn’t know it was Rose). I totally agree with you about bi-generation. There’s a fan theory that the Fourteenth Doctor dies of old age and then regenerates into the Fifteenth Doctor, who is then pulled back in time to the moment of the bi-generation. That’s not the official canon, but I would prefer it to be, because that at least closes the loop and makes it a definitive ending for the Fourteenth Doctor.

I am not 100% on board with the Bigeneration, but in terms of the Doctor already having a family with Rose... to be fair that's a complete different entity to him, he isn't living that life. There is a theory that eventually 14 will 'merge' with 15 again towards the end once he's dealt with all of his shit.

He cannot go into the time line of Rory and Amy, going to New York is fine as long as he does not interfere with the fixed point in time, meeting Rory or Amy. That is what cannot be done. Visiting New York before Rory and Amy got there, after they died, all fine.

The conversation at ~ 28:00 makes me think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and (BUFFY SPOILERS AHEAD) ... ... ... ... ... how Buffy being revived from drowning in season 1 broke the entire metaphysical timeline of Slayers from there on out. Like, what did bigeneration do to the overall Timelord metaphysics?

He only can't go back to New York during the same year that he went before when he had to force the tardis in the first time

U forget Donna's met rose in turn left and in her final episodes

They definitely left a lot of questions for us nerds to ponder! Love the new doctor, but wouldn't mind seeing Tennant wander by now and again, as long as it doesn't undercut Ncuti's run! I guess we have to wafo! 🤔😁

There's a great bts video of the episode that kind of explains the cuts in the ball game, basically they just couldn't catch very well so had to fake it

The 12th doctor fixed the timeline in NYC in the episode doctor mysterio episode

Conspiracy theory - Ten is He Who Waits

The fourth Doctor will always be my Doctor. But 10/14 comes close

I think the lack of think pieces and whatnot about the continued existence of Tennant's doctor is that it is still quite an ambiguous move. It could, handled badly, overshadow Gatwa's doctor but, equally, as part of a sort of reboot, it could free up the writing of his character, now the doctor is less burdened by his past.

the Toymaker is like 'Q' only weaker because hes bound by the rules of the game

Donna said it before... the doctors like a worm you cut him in half and you just get another one. Maybe its something unique to her. Just curious if they ever plan to do anything with Tennant or if it was more "lets just give the fans a happy ending for a change" Not gonan lie I kinda want a season or 2 of past doctor stories. Since the timeless child made it so Hartnell had his memory wiped and he cant remember any prior incarnation of the doctor and we now know the doctor actually had unlimited regenerations.... but theres this whole thing in modern who about needing to be in present day with a present day companion. I kinda liked how we get the new doctor without regeneration sickness. And I guess the reason why we had 2 doctors is so they could get 2 rewards? So Tennants reward was the toy maker going away while Ncuti got a copy pasted tardis. But Ncuti owned the role unlike Jodi who took like a season and a half to kinda start to feel like she was the doctor. not sure if thats jodi giving a bad performance or not caring about he role or just bad writing and directing since we had both. Ncuti gets his own tardis so Tennant can still go off on his own side adventures.

Nerdy, the doctor is the President of Earth so he has the power to make decisions for the good of the earth.

32:00 I'm with Claroos here

Isn't it only new york in the 1930s he has to avoid? And 12 was fixing that instability

I don't know if you've seen series 8, 9 and 10 but during that period the Doctor became the president of the world in times of crisis. So he has the right to make the call to destroy the satellite.

60K is a good income in London. Not amazing, but better than most. 120K is crazy money.

There are a lot of modern cultures that do not restrict themselves to a single surname. The single surname convention is only seen as the default or "normal" in the West and even there it is not ubiquitously true.

Biggest fail of this episode is tennant banishes the toymaker from existence as his reward for winning the game. So the toymaker and his powers ect have been banished from this point. Then the new doctor claims a prize by splitting the tardis however the toymaker was already removed from existence so there would be no prize.

19:07 in the UK that is a complete non issue. It’s in the US there seems to be a fixation on race

Hilariously, the reason the ball game is edited like that is because none of them can catch.

17:56 I said the same LMAO..

I would just like to ask if y'all have thought about watching Good Omens? I think y'all would really enjoy it.

its weird that watching torchwood and how dire things kept getting and i was like "the doctor has to show up to save the day right? cause this is too much...." but then that was the whole point of torchwood was what would we do if we didnt have the doctor. i didnt get the impression 10 would be coming back in later episodes. i mean the possibility is there sure and we wont know till we get into the next season i guess but so far anyway i havent felt like "whens 10 gonna show up" though during Jodis run there was the thought of "whens the black female doctor going to show back up? i need more of her story since she was a way better actress in half an episode than jodi has been in 2 seasons" lol

As far as the predicted thought pieces go...that's clearly not what Davies was going for...like Moffat, Davies has written A LOT of Doctor Who, and there are themes that they return to - either because they want to take a better stab at them, or because it is simply what they find important...as Clarus pointed out Davies has already tried to tackle the idea that the Doctor is a vagabond because he is broken and he needs to a home and family...I think that's one of the two reasons Davies wrote this....I think the other is that Ncuti Gatwa's Doctor is written and portrayed as deeply empathetic and compassionate in a one-on-one way that hasn't happened before - I think Davies is trying something really new with his second time round and I suspect it is the reason any writer writes what they do - write what you know, Davies is an older than he was when he relaunched Doctor Who and I suspect finds depictions of death and unresolved damage less useful tools in his writer's toolbox than most Doctor Who writers did (exccept for Christopher Bailey & Peter Grimwade, perhaps)

8:36 Better question is: Have you met Ted?

The doctor is so out of it is the toy maker us his true equal. The only reason the first doctor beat him was by pure luck.

I think a lot of what happened with this that aggravates Nerdy is because it turned out that Ncuti couldn't be in the three anniversary specials except a little bit because he had another commitment. So Tennant returning was a cludge.

60k pounds would be a six figure salary in USD.

Yeah, sadly in the uk that kind of salary is what dreams are made of.

I'm thinking that we won't see anything from Tennet's 14 until we get to the big bad of the first season... and for some reason, we're going to need two Doctors to solve it

We appreciate all your dedication and hard work. Keep working hard no matter what.

As a child I preferred Star Trek and felt Dr Who was too silly. It took me awhile to appreciate the whimsical nature.

Welcome back to the RTD era, where story climaxes are resolved with the silliest of reasons like actually playing catch the ball. /s This is something RTD is well known for during his first run of Doctor Who, so I'm not surprised he is doing the same thing again. Its not even the first time he's done it in these three specials - Donna's metacrisis was hand-waved away with "unlike male presenting Timelords, we can just let go of it!"

I would accept the bi-generation more if we had some kinda rules in place as to why it happened. what are the restrictions? can all timelords do it or is it just the doctor since hes not a timelord? unless his species is called timelord and gallifrey stole the name when they stole the ability to regenerate

if the toymaker used realisty warping in every game he would be very bored

Really not the Rasputin bit at all.

I liked the episode but I hated the bi-generation it felt like a real cop-out and diminishes that David Tennant's Doctor is the same as all the other Doctors I'd rather David had just simply died and changed into Ncuti rather than doing the split because it now overshadows the new Doctor and the defeat of the Toymaker was too quickly resolved. The flashback scene was the original Toymaker (Michael Gough) who you may know as Alfred from the Tim Burton "Batman" films and the First Doctor (William Hartnell).

He can go back to New York. Just not at that time period.

I ASKED THE SAME THING ABOUT WHERE THE WOMAN WAS STANDING

you guys don't know that the "Bi-generation" affected all the doctors before them(the doctors before them also bi generated).....fuck this show, it died in 2017 and i started in 2018, shame..... the line "take away tardis, take away sonic and toys....what am i...." ONLY THE SMARTEST PERSON IN THE FUCKING UNIVERSE(they forgot doctor have to be smart)..........i am gonna stop....my keyboard caught on fire

😂