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Beeple on the Future of Digital Art 

School of Motion
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We were stoked to have design trailblazer and animator Beeple join us on the SOM podcast. He shares insights on the NFT boom, how AI augments artistic work, and offers valuable advice for up-and-coming designers. Check out the corresponding blog post here: www.schoolofmotion.com/blog/b...
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Intro 00:00:00
Reflecting on the NFT Boom 00:01:27
Understanding the Value of Digital Ownership 00:05:31
NFT Culture and Market Dynamics 00:09:14
Navigating Fame and Public Perception 00:14:08
The Everydays Project 00:19:10
AI Tools in Digital Art 00:21:19
Artistic Success and Quality 00:24:47
The Impact of AI on Art Creation 00:34:11
Technical Proficiency and AI 00:40:15
Ownership and AI Training Data 00:41:51
The Future of Art and AI 00:47:39
Using AI in Creative Workflows 00:54:47
Advice for Young Artists 01:03:13

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30 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 92   
@davidm5790
@davidm5790 5 дней назад
I’ll start by saying this: I love this podcast, I think Joey is a great host, and I appreciate what it does for the motion design community. With all that being said, I really wish the guests were more representative of the people who actually listen. We need less millionaires and entrepreneurs. We need more artists. More people who can talk about working in the industry right now, about how they feel about big changes happening and how it affects normal people. I know they probably don’t get the same draw as say, a Beeple, but I think it’s important to the community that this podcast doesn’t just become a popularity contest
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
Thanks for the feedback! Who would you like to see?
@HomAxz
@HomAxz 5 дней назад
​@@joeykorenmanWilliam faucher please! He makes some of the best unreal learning content. Would love to see him on here. Thanks
@chr1st0pher
@chr1st0pher 4 дня назад
@@joeykorenmanYONK, olov burman, Will Anderson
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
@@joeykorenman Ash Thorp
@davidm5790
@davidm5790 4 дня назад
@@joeykorenman I think a Ben Marriott interview is long overdue! Maybe Emonee LarRussa again since she’s launched her non profit. Some cool designers would be great to see like for example, Gabriel silveira for one, Lorena G for another. Maybe Tyler Morgan and Sarah Beth would be a fun duo to interview together. Grace Pedersen from ordinary Folk. Maybe the people who work at/run GoldenWolf
@dougnox7390
@dougnox7390 4 дня назад
I really dislike how his renders look now. It just looks like a corny photoshop filter was applied. And let's be real, he got popular by making content very quickly about whatever the popular topic on the internet or twitter/X is for the week
@tomwoodcraft_gfx
@tomwoodcraft_gfx 5 дней назад
its not just the luddites that dont like it, Speaking 1st hand, clients expect the quality of the images that AI can produce, but know just enough about it to pay considerably less than its possible to earn a living at
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
Yeah, that's a problem. The hype around AI waaaaaay outpaces the actual utility of it, especially with video or animation.
@jakubjezovic
@jakubjezovic 5 дней назад
I don't know what's so hard to understand about, that if they don't have the right to the artwork they can't fkin use it to train their models. No one gave them the rights. What is here to discuss?
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
I agree with that part... are you ok with AI in theory, just not when it's trained on images without permission? Firefly is only trained on images Adobe has a license to (I know that's also controversial) so are you cool with that tool? Genuinely curious, this stuff is a minefield, ha!
@Seiness
@Seiness 4 дня назад
I think Firefly is fine since it's only trained on licensed content. The issue is when companies ilegaly train their AI on a ton of artwork and then actually make a business out of it. If it would be open source, I think a lot more people would be okay with it. "Stealing" stuff to make your own business feels wrong.
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
What's being discussed due to actual legal lawsuits, and the reason why they might take years to settle, is there is no law that claims you can't use images available in the web to train AI models, because there was no legal precedent for this to make it illegal. Those suing claim the use is unlawful because they used copyrighted images to build models for a commercial use, and those behind the models are claiming that the use of such images is indistinct from the artistic process of reference and inspiration, that the models don't hold any copy of copyrighted material so they aren't actively using the work, and that the result is transformational enough to make it fair use anyways (that's the reason some artists can monetize collage and photo bashing, for example). To AI companies the process was akin to data crawling that searchers like Google use to index content (and to which we agree to when using online platforms), and to artists it was akin to data theft, since we agreed to our data to be crawled by searchers but not for machine learning (because that wasn't an issue before). So there's indeed a lot to discuss, because the subject is so novel the rules around it aren't so cut and clear.
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
​@@Seiness The thing is they insist in it not being theft. To them it was all just fair use of data available to everyone in the internet, and the law hasn't claimed it otherwise. It's yet to be determined.
@user-ib9ky2jo9h
@user-ib9ky2jo9h 5 дней назад
i prefer Miyazaki's take on AI, and coincidentally hes 1000 times the artist Beeple is.
@btn237
@btn237 4 дня назад
Miyazaki also dislikes CGI, which I’m sure a lot of digital artists would take issue with being their preferred medium and what a lot of the controversy around Ai is related to. In other words I’m not exactly sure he’s in your corner here.
@user-ib9ky2jo9h
@user-ib9ky2jo9h 3 дня назад
@@btn237 except Studio Ghibli have been using it for decades. Bit different to regarding something as 'an insult to life itself'
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
@@btn237 But Princess Mononoke has such good use of CGI!
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
Ok, that "insult to life itself" quote has been misconstrued to oblivion by this point. He wasn't talking about gen AI cause it wasn't known nearly as much when that video was recorded. It was just a procedural AI animation model they were showing him for possible use in the studio, just like the subtle use of CGI they've used in his movies, and it falls more in line with him being a dick to his staff than anything else. Beeple has been creating daily shots and animations for years now all by himself, while Miyazaki personally has to draw and crunch infinitely less than the animators who work for him. They're all hardworking artists.
@nightwaves_
@nightwaves_ 5 дней назад
Yikes. Definition of edgelord. So many bad and dangerous takes in this one. The consistent high and mighty tone in this interview is so incredibly off putting, he really believes he has everything figured out because he has a team of goons around him now feeding the ego
@jjeremyhunterr
@jjeremyhunterr 4 дня назад
Yeah massive wanker vibes
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
He also doesn't see the value in the craft anymore because he sold his artwork when the NFT craze was happening for millions, and so he is completely out of touch with what the average designer/artist struggle with.
@jjeremyhunterr
@jjeremyhunterr 4 дня назад
@@sammalama yeah easy to shill for AI when your livelihood doesn't depend on it.
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
Doesn't sound that different from the pre NFT Beetle to be fair.
@jjeremyhunterr
@jjeremyhunterr 4 дня назад
Oh, Beeple the NFT bro who made millions shilling his stuff to suckers is pro AI? I'm shocked
@davidgaitan4981
@davidgaitan4981 5 дней назад
LOVE to hear the take of a multimillionaire who's not at all affected by the outcome of AI art. /S SOM has some pretty bad takes on all this and it's concerning to see that they're positioned as a voice for the future of motion design while telling us to stop worrying about the thing that is going to end motion design as an artform.
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
Appreciate the comment, though I see it a bit differently. You and I might disagree on AI, but I wouldn't call your opinion a "bad take," it's just different than mine, and the best way to understand each other is to talk and discuss this stuff openly. Convince me with logic, not name calling. Maybe you're right... maybe not? The only way I know to find out is to have civil conversations with EVERYONE. Personally, I do not believe AI is going to end motion design as an art form, but it will certainly evolve and change. There will be winners and losers... it's always been that way, unfortunately. Most importantly, I don't see any future where AI isn't a massive force in all forms of design moving forward. The genie is out of the bottle, and while I also have concerns about the sourcing of data used to train these tools... what, exactly, should a young artist do? Take a moral position and not use the tools? That's a valid option, and I respect anyone who has the courage of their convictions like that... but as a career move I think it's not gonna end well. AI is part of the future of ALL design, whether we like it or not. Thanks for the conversation! I really do appreciate the candor.
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
​@@joeykorenman Take a scenario where Beeple isn't wealthy and is actually struggling to make ends meet, and is still doing his daily renders. Imagine I specifically trained an AI on all of his daily renders, and started to produce daily renders of my own from prompts. I flood social media with bot accounts with renders that resemble his style, which saturates his uniqueness, and removes his value. That is a single person being targeted. Just because these corporations are targeting MILLIONS of artists at once, doesn't mean the individual is gone. So his entire argument falls apart. Also keep in mind, this isn't about technology, everyone wants AI to be as powerful as possible, we just don't want AI being run and controlled by a few competing trillion dollar corporations. Especially since this progress is being drive by greed, and not human advancement in mind. If you find yourself fighting in favor of a greedy corporation, you need to reassess your values in my opinion.
@DannyArsenault86
@DannyArsenault86 4 дня назад
@@joeykorenman "AI is part of the future of ALL design, whether we like it or not." Hard disagree. There will always be actual artists who refuse to hand over expression and creativity to a computer, and a portion of the public who aren't content to have their art and culture dictated by AI.
@paulcatoera
@paulcatoera 4 дня назад
"somebody is gonna steal it anyway"
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
I agree with Mike about nobody forcing you to use these tools, but I'm not so certain about companies, employers and clients pushing you to do so. I'm already seeing a lot of people talking about their clients advising against it, firing freelancers for using it, and getting freelancers to fix or redo AI generated work because the result tends to be so obviously generic, uninspired, or simply has that weird "AI sheen" that's hard to describe but still gets under your skin.
@twotwoasjjuh1025
@twotwoasjjuh1025 4 дня назад
I'm just gonna unsub real quick
@misanthrope_01
@misanthrope_01 5 дней назад
He sold out to NFTs when his shit was bought by a company he had invested in.
@user-ez7ek8yk2m
@user-ez7ek8yk2m 4 дня назад
I really appreciate his complete blunt honesty. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear, but he has a really good point. My philosophy is, there is nothing new under the sun. This ai revolution feels almost identical to the 3D revolution that had 2D artists worried a "computer" would take their job.
@cleftturnip7774
@cleftturnip7774 3 дня назад
Sounds like he's trying to convince himself
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
I predict carnage in the comments section.
@davidm5790
@davidm5790 5 дней назад
Less millionaires and entrepreneurs on the podcast please! More artists maybe? I know they won’t get the same draw but I do miss the old podcast that featured working artists
@asl2025
@asl2025 4 дня назад
Hope the engagement fishing is worth the loss of respect.
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
@@davidm5790 Beeple is an artist, dude
@coldarone
@coldarone 3 дня назад
ok, I'm a 3D motion designer, how can and what incorporate AI tools in my work? I din't realized yet...
@fluxophile
@fluxophile 5 дней назад
Has anyone even looked at his latest work? Dude is a carnival of cringe, on top of being a wash trading grifter. And if he never pulled that massive grift, you wouldn't even be talking to him.
@joeykorenman
@joeykorenman 5 дней назад
I dunno, we had Beeple on the podcast well before he was the NFT guy... I think he's one of the most interesting people I've ever met. You don't meet many people who have completely run of of f--ks to give, ya know? The honesty is refreshing to me.
@jjeremyhunterr
@jjeremyhunterr 4 дня назад
​@@joeykorenman that's because he's rich, not because he's interesting
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
​@@joeykorenman So you think humiliating other peoples very valid perspective, and being very rude is "refreshingly honest". Not to mention his past where he sold out to NFTs and manipulated people so he would get rich. Yes such refreshing honesty, we need so much more of this in the world.
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
@@jjeremyhunterr He's always been like that. See his talk with The Futur way before the NFT thing went down.
@JoshFryer
@JoshFryer 4 дня назад
I think Mike is the only person that swears more than me, and I love him for it. 😂
@twotwoasjjuh1025
@twotwoasjjuh1025 4 дня назад
I also thought swearing was cool, but then school ended
@JoshFryer
@JoshFryer 4 дня назад
@@twotwoasjjuh1025 hahaha must suck to suck. 🤷‍♂️
@juantoledo5248
@juantoledo5248 2 дня назад
The Josef Fares of motion design, we love him
@Sparky3D
@Sparky3D 4 дня назад
Our money and debt is all virtual. Virtual assets have been part of our society for decades.
@AchakBrooks
@AchakBrooks 5 дней назад
The concept of owning non tangible items with the same rights and regulations as tangible items has never not been a thing. Not having a transparent cataloging system needed to manage non tangibles, ie digital media for things like re-sale has been the issue. I saw this part being the benefit of NFT's (or whatever comes after it). RIght now everything is one directional, and the dialog of "know one was thinking we could own a JPG" is the narrative the majority of corporations prefer. They prefer anything to distract from the majorities mindshare from the continuation of individuals that for decades yelled and pushed for systems that provide better regulation with digital media comparative to physical media. The added missguided narrative of "NFT bad" was another misplaced misdirection that happened thanks to what "capitalism" incentivized in individuals trying to get "one ups" in the system through loopholes in regulations (or lack of) and the wider population not understanding of NFTs. ie in the same way ML means AI to the wider public I think the correct narrative was lost because neither Corperations nor Digital Creators want to talk about "rights" because there system of income greatly benefits from there use of others efforts. I see the AI (ML promptards) as a hyperextension (or maybe)of the same people who sold their own spiderman/xmen/"FAMOUS IP" print or t-shirt at Comicons back in the day vs creating from those inspirations, but with most minimal effort to be soooooo directly connected to the capitalist part of what ART needs function with in. It is the facade that so many put on, lying to themselves to legitimise their use of a tool that really invokes that guttural despisal of them. Using ML to iterate on your own art is a great way to rapidly get feedback on what you created and sample directions you might want to take your art. You don't always have the right friend or coworker to bounce ideas off of at a whim and ML fits that role very well. This back and forth use of ML is the narrative that I would like to see and hear more often but it doesn't create a prolonged outrage of back/forths to maintain this online medias engagement/Value/income, so forget it I guess.
@AarenIgnazio77
@AarenIgnazio77 5 дней назад
Beeple is a talented artist who creates a wide variety of work. A significant portion of his creations involve Daz Kitbash 3D collage on a high-performance PC. He initially started with drawings in his early everydays. While he may not have the same drawing skills and output as Picasso, he definitely has his own unique talent and style.
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
Spoken like a bot
@alexsafonov7270
@alexsafonov7270 5 дней назад
👍🏽great discussion! thank you Joey and Beeple 👍🏽
@alan.smitheeee
@alan.smitheeee 4 дня назад
Beeple is so cringe.
@Sleezy.Design
@Sleezy.Design 3 дня назад
I completely forgot this guy exists
@newstream2000
@newstream2000 5 дней назад
Obviously, a brilliant guy. I wonder what was in his coffee before this interview, considering how much he moved and fidgeted during it.
@DeanRipper
@DeanRipper 4 дня назад
King of the Protestant Work Ethic 👑
@bargh70
@bargh70 4 дня назад
I've been following Beeple for so most of my life. From the early days of the internet. It's amazing that he's still so very relevant.
@twotwoasjjuh1025
@twotwoasjjuh1025 4 дня назад
is he relevant though?
@Sleezy.Design
@Sleezy.Design 3 дня назад
I completely forgot that he exists. He hasn't been relevant since he sold his NFTs. That probably was the only time he was relevant lol, if you can even call it that
@Vmshipe
@Vmshipe 4 дня назад
Disgusting and rude.
@Bonirin
@Bonirin 4 дня назад
Such a great interview, literally non of the Beeple's takes are controversial and you can 100% see where he's coming from. Kinda sad to see that some of the comments here either didn't watch the interview or forced themselves not to listen at all due to their preconceived notions. We need more level headed and well adjusted takes on AI from people who actually do art for their job, and not from randos on twitter, and ESPECIALLY you never see it hosted on a serious art platform
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
Bro you're so deep in there we can't see your nose anymore. TWO comments on the same video both praising Beeple lol I really hope for your sake that you're being paid to do this.
@Bonirin
@Bonirin 4 дня назад
​@@sammalama Don't overheat, just say "AI = bad", I don't expect anything more of substance from you, dw
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
@@Bonirin Why exactly are you so upset? An intelligent mind is open to new ideas. Nobody said A.I. is bad, maybe trying reading past a headline for a change? What people are saying is A.I. is being trained by these trillion dollar corporations on artists work, these corps aren't trying to advance humanity with this technology, they are trying to make a profit. Do you think any corporation would let you use their work for free? You'd be sued left and right. But they expect to use all of our freely. No artist is against technology, we are against exploitation. Do you understand the difference?
@Bonirin
@Bonirin 4 дня назад
@@sammalama You're wrong on basically every aspect of your statement - AI that's being trained by a trillion dollar corporation has nothing to do with Art, and all to do with advancing humanity, be it Self-driving, automatic warehouse robots, factory robots, weather predicters, protein folders etc etc etc. So for one scale that down to billions, at least. - Stop pretending to care about AIs beign trained on "artists works" there are fully """ethical""" models, that have only royalty free stuff or stuff with explicit permission, and even if all models were trained in this manner, you wouldn't be one bit less outraged - I don't even know why you care about artists work being used. Google exploits artists for their images daily, a million times a second, plus training doesn't actually take anything from the artists, not a single pixel is stolen, artists don't lose potential clients, you're delusional if you think studios are going to fire perfectly capable artists in favor of slop machine (Why not have artists AND AI?? Beeple literally mentions that, have you watched the interview?), Like why do you care at all????? You lose literally nothing, and get something unprecedentedly useful - They don't use your stuff, see the point above. If anything, As Beeple rightfully mentioned, majority of artistic content used in training, are commissions from big pockets and corporations, WHY don't you want to use something that they own and you don't?? - "We're against exploitation" so you're gonna stand in a way of the technology that could alleviate the most egregious exploitation practices in the animation industry, because your feelings are hurt...? You know that people who are slaving over in-betweening are getting paid literal pennies, and the development of this tech could literally fix this giant black hole that destroys creative and passionate people I would understand the difference, if there'd been exploitation, and not just crying, Do better, idk, read less twitter
@sammalama
@sammalama 3 дня назад
​@@Bonirin Factually incorrect on everything you typed up. I'm not going to use Google for you. Simply search AI trained on personal data, and you will see many incidents where AI is being trained on PERSONAL data, and never had consent, and they call artist work "style" even this very channel covered how shady they can be. This isn't' acceptable because these very same corporations won't let you use their work for free, so why do you expect us to let them use ours? Why are you being such a corporate brown noser? Google exploiting artists doesn't make it okay for other people to exploit us. You're pretty much saying "oh other people stole from this shop, so it's okay for all of us to steal from it" this is such an unintelligent argument to make. Give it more thought before you spew nonsense. Just because Beeple says something doesn't mean it's the 100% truth. Beeple is a greedy sellout. The data being used is many times from sites like Instagram/Artstation where there was an agreement update or change of use so there's a loophole for exploiting peoples works. This is sneaky and underhanded, and most corporations would never accept this happening to them, yet they want to impose this on artists. Again nobody is stopping technology, but if you want to build A.I. systems go ahead, don't use peoples work without permission. Maybe you need to be the one to read more past headlines if you think there is no exploitation. Again I'm not going to use the internet for you.
@jacksonarmstrong
@jacksonarmstrong 2 часа назад
No way, the guy who makes derivative garbage thinks AI is good? I never would have guessed.
@loadsheddingzim
@loadsheddingzim 2 дня назад
Wow Magnific ai is insane! Yeah nah artists crying about ai are truly effed
@Bonirin
@Bonirin 5 дней назад
In the intro Beeple is as fcking BASED as can possibly be
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
Your nose is brown.
@asl2025
@asl2025 4 дня назад
This is bait. Like the intro.
@Jojodone
@Jojodone 5 дней назад
Exactly my thoughts digital art is a shortcut to doing real painting 😅and then now people are wanting to draw a line now. When people and digital artists get inspired or copy real painters all the time and nothing ever comes out of that.
@davidm5790
@davidm5790 5 дней назад
Yes but digital art is still HARD. It’s not easy to be an artist just because you use photoshop. Similarly, it’s easier now with modern technology to be an amazing athlete. But it’s still a lot of hard work. Nobody wants to see robots play basketball. So why do we want robots to make artwork?
@Jojodone
@Jojodone 5 дней назад
@@davidm5790 because its what the client wants ultimately. Its still fairly easier to make than a painting, but yet clients pay designers to make graphic work...
@sammalama
@sammalama 4 дня назад
You just don't understand the position of the artists. It's not that we don't like technology, we aren't against A.I. as a modern means to create art. We are against massive trillion dollar corporations who are training their A.I. on our work for free, and then down the road charging us for their products. This isn't in the name of progress, it's in the name of PROFITS.
@AchakBrooks
@AchakBrooks 4 дня назад
No, who cares about your thought because it doesn’t address “the line” that is being spoken about. Machine learning is another tool. How Capitalists use tool is for accruing capital over all else. The line that is being crossed is the labourer not having rights or any mode of action in regard to the replication process and their labour spent as it is being stolen and used to accrue equity for another parties benefit. That is the line, and why there is giant problem with your thought. You might be speaking about “value” derived from the difference of tools used, ie tangible item (physical painting) vs non tangible (digital) but that is subjective issue that is so broad it makes no sense to make. ie a labour creating a physical painting has a different directive to gain value/capital compared to digital media. Digital art’s value derive from the need for it to supplement greater collective ideas. Animation, games, comics. Something that is ever going, a series vs singular. In that way, physical paintings are not a good comparison to digital art for the issue people are angry about. Scanning a painting into a digital image, then handing those images off to another person to then sell as a new tangible item (tshirt,poster,print, etc) or non tangible (nft, stock image, etc) without crediting or reimbursing the original creator is the closest comparison to what ML prompters are doing. That was frowned on before and it is no different from what should be frowned upon now and regulated now
@Jojodone
@Jojodone 4 дня назад
@@AchakBrooks @sammalama i agree and see the other guy's point regarding the corporations, but let's be honest almost all great artists get their technique inspiration from another artist, but you don't see those artists going to court because they see some of their work portrayed in someone else's work, why because there's nothing new under the sun. In the same way an AI will learn and draw inspiration from your work. Will it look exactly the same no but it maybe similar. The only difference is unlike someone's mind and train of thought for the AI there maybe a way to show paper trail of where It got the inspiration from. Anyway I think the point he's trying to make is that even without your artwork, they own enough art work and property to train these AIs so its going to still push forward even without your art. So you guys would still lose . It's gona happen guys and there's no compensation coming unfortunately 😕.
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