As a portuguese I have to admit everything you guys mentioned is true. Public services has always been a nightmate in this country. Unfortunately I don't believe it will ever change, the system is flawed and works hand in hand with the government... Their's a saying about governments, the more bureaucratic they are the more corupt
You're not making sense because Portugal is way more bureaucratic than the USA and way less corrupt! It's not here that people pretend they want an item, they use it and they pretend that rhey didn't like it... when, in fact, they weren't willing to pay for something they just wanted to use for a couple of hours! Here people usually just return an item when things are broken of doesn't fit because they are too big ir too small!
@@ExpatsEverywhereYou can't take more than a certain amount of money per day for security reasons: just because violence is way less than in the USA, of course there are robbery as well and it prevents a person to steel all your money. There are a lot of things to nag about but this isn't one of them. I agree with the majority of things you pointed out in the video, but you could've done it in a more respectful way, though... I think you wouldn't like it if a portuguese person made a video mocking about all the things that are outrageous in your country! Relax, I bet you won't find a single portuguese video badmouthing your country because we don't do that! It's possible to criticize without eye rolling, hidden laughter and being patronizing.
I heard this about the wait times are insane. Im applying for my citizenship in Portugal and going to use a lawyer to help speed up the process at $ 900 Euros plus a few fees. 12 to 18 months to receive the citizenship. I will gladly pay this fee.
The lawyers that we've heard from have also said 12-18 months. We don't know many that have recently applied for or gotten citizenship. GV stuff has been 2-3 years from what we've seen. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere I hope that's true--my attorney said 2-3 years, but the bottleneck might break up soon--I hope--just getting ready to apply now... :)
I applied last year month of May. Paid 500 in total lawyer fees and filing. Until now I am stuck in number 4 (1 to 6 phases). My processo is in Amadora
@@ShannaTrenholm we just did a video with an immigration lawyer today and we referenced this particular point. He said in the past, the processing time was a year but more recently due to a large backlog that has come on in part due to the timing of those with GVs that have come to term (5 years) that the agency responsible for the citizenships (not SEF/AIMA) fell behind. That it's now more likely 18 months from his most recent experience with clients. He did say that he believe the number will normalize back to 12 months though. On a personal level, I'm not sure what process the documentation goes through that it should even take 12 months. There are so few requirements that seemingly have easy proofs so why would it take 12 months? - Josh
Doing things in the big city (in my case Lisbon) is much more complicated and time consuming. When I got my first “cartão de cidadão” (before was bilhete de identidade) I’ve heard people taking a full day to get that done. I went to Viseu (loja do cidadão) and got things done in 10 min. On another story, they told me a process couldn’t be done, went again to Viseu, no problem and done quickly. I don’t know if foreigners are required to handle those bureaucracy’s in Lisbon/Porto. But I would avoid those places if possible. Same goes for the banking system and loans.
I got mine in Sydney consulate in Australia. I could book appointment for the next day and although the process took almost 1h. They did both my Cartão do Cidadão plus passport in the same appointment. My brother in Canada didn’t have the same experience though and it was similar to what they described in the video.
Well, no country is perfect but I still remember when I bought a property with my own funds in less than a week in Portugal. That is pretty much impossible everywhere.
And here I was believing the US bureaucracy was a nightmare to deal with... What's more eye-opening was the issues you mentioned with the mortgage and construction/renovation processes. It sounded like a nightmare. Especially because you're dealing with a large amount of money. I'm not sure I want to live in Portugal anymore if I have to go through such headaches every time I need to file taxes etc.
We bought an apartment in Gaia in May. Our biggest surprise was that we needed to purchase life insurance on the mortgage. We had a 75% down payment and STILL needed to have the life insurance. Delays! Our process from the time of the offer to closing was 60 days plus 2 weeks. Our attorney asked for an extension to allow for the delays. So relieved that she was on it!
Essentially Portugal works if you can tolerate being stuck in the country for 1+ years trying to get your residency (otherwise leaving and coming back might get you stuck at the border) and possibly not being able to drive anywhere internationally for 1-2+ years while you get another license. It’s not for people who might have to do a lot of international travels frequently and value their freedom. That’s why it attracts a lot of people who perhaps just want that slower life. They just need to be ready for a sometimes *painfully* slow life.
You guys never talk about portuguese people going back to Portugal. People like mysel : have a portuguese passport, portuguese ID card and have been away for about 60 years but planning on returning.
That’s great! Would you say this is happening more / increasing (Portuguese returning home)? I am interested in coming to Portugal but feel bad if there is a dynamic of most Portuguese leaving …
Never? ;-) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P6TeQeEAv14.html We were going to do more videos like this but hardly anyone clicked on it so it seemed like our audience simply wasn't that interested. There are plenty of Portuguese people that are or have returned, however, the ones that won't most often cite bureaucracy as the reason. The ones that are coming back cite safety, family, laidback environment. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere thanks for sharing - I will take a look at this. Ps. I have been watching your videos on and off for over a year now (going back to the one on Valencia). Very informative. Thanks from the UK
@@ExpatsEverywhere ok and yes this is what I hear. I grew up with a lot of Portuguese friends in London as in my era there was a lot of inigration (their parents / like mine) came over due to instability created from Salazar / Franco in the Iberian peninsula. My parents obviously came from Uganda but it created an interesting dynamic. Much of west London has a lot of Portuguese and Spanish. Seems like younger folk still leave but not only for UK, I would imagine mainly France…
@@ExpatsEverywhere Thanks! Sorry my other comment was a bid sad. You have your own share of frustration and you know how harder certain things can be here in Europe. I thought Portugal would be more like Brazil around things like renting or buying property. I had heard it's a nightmare to get renovation projects approved with the city, though. I wish your own project turns out well even if you choose to sell it instead of moving into it. 🙏🏻
All these stories I find to be very true and yes it does depend on which way the wind is blowing the day you decide to do anything, but it used to so so much worse. Ask anyone if they remember what 25 line paper was and when Imposto de selo was a real stamp, purchased in a specific shop.
OK. PTSD trigger for sure. A lot of gratitude for having it all in the rearview mirror. Great info though and a good reality check for people coming over. Thanks!
These worse possible scenarios sound horrendous. We are 2 plus years in and have had a much easier time. Visa in six days, our appointments in our home city of Braga, and excellent customer service when we dealt with local shop keepers. Lucky I guess. but most folks who have a smooth time of it, don’t post about that.
Yes, not everyone will experience all of these problems and certainly not all at once. Quick question though, have you done the driver's license exchange? - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere I have. Again it came within two months. That said it was a tough list because of the timing on the appostiled driving record requirements. Done though.
I live between UK and Portugal and public offices in Portugal are actually quite efficient in solving people's problems and they use up-to-date technology. I have to say they are better than the UK. I cannot compare it to the US but I guess this video is misleading.
@@redgree1645 France at least has a more straightforward tax regime for retirees with passive income and a straightforward long-stay visa option that requires far less bureaucracy and time, which would be convenient in splitting time between France and the U.S. as we’d likely do. And my French is far better than my Portuguese so I would be able to express frustration and curse more effectively….
Totally. France still has annoying bureaucracy, but it’s overall far more disciplined and organized. You’re gonna have to bring a lot of forms, but they’re going to be clearly documented. On one side Portugal is bureaucratic and you never know if it’s gonna work, in France it’s bureaucratic but you can count on the result. Far more stability in that.
From what we know regarding France, it's not the visa bureaucracy you have to worry about like you said, the tax regime and the visa options are more straightforward but there are other everyday little life things that might be like this or worse. - Josh & Kalie
This is all a test of whether or not you reallllly want this move. Just be patient and methodical and organized. Don't think about all the things you have to do, only the next thing.
Thanks for the video, it made us feel fortunate that we were able to accomplish all of items relatively easily compared to more recent arrivals. The most time consuming for us was the drivers license exchange but that was our fault for not getting the document requirements correct. In the past three years it seems to have gotten worse. Fully agree on the banking, so unhelpful and costly.
I had positive experiences as well. I found Portugal way more advanced than Italy and the UK when dealing with public offices. They use the latest technology and you can do everything on line.
First, awesome video! I had no idea that these things happen. The info you provide is invaluable. So one can get an AIMA appointment in a totally different city? You have to surrender your driver's license? 🤯 So many things to be aware of. Thanx again for another great video.
Thank you, Daniel. These little things likely exist in a lot of other countries too so it's not a uniquely Portugal thing, we're sure. The AIMA appointment thing is a weird one. The DL thing, there's a work around. Email Kalie and ask her info@expatseverywhere.com All the best! - Josh & Kalie
YES! 💯 Accurate. Bought a mobile air purifier and was missing a part that was supposed to be included. I contacted the UK-based company and they gave me their Portuguese email... As anyone that has spent an hour in Portugal knows, the customer service experience with them has been horrendous. I emailed them in early May. They have emailed me twice since then, with pathetically ambiguous responses. For emphasis, I have emailed them 10x It's going to be August and we still haven't been given the part.
From my limited experience, it seems like most of these problems are simply because there aren't enough people to do the job! I waited a long time being about the 7th person - with people coming in ahead of us I assume because they had set appointments - but when I met with the person, they were efficient and things went very quickly. They did their job well. When I left there were so many more people in line out the door to be dealt with by the 4 workers. Plus, it probably slowed down when they had to go to lunch! (This was in Lagos.)
I've been living in Portugal for two years now, and I use the rule to take at least a half day off to go to any institution. There are obviously so many amazing things about Portugal (especially the people) that compensate for the minor disadvantages. But the hardest thing for me is the mail delivery. I am super lucky to work from home. Otherwise, I don't know how it would be possible to receive packages. I almost never get phone calls, couriers just call the interphone. My worst experience was with dpd: I received a message that I'd receive a package on Tuesday, then again on Wednesday, then got a message that my address was wrong. After a lot of messages and emails from me, I finally received the package on Monday. And for all this time (weekdays), I was expected to stay at home and wait.
Based on my personal experience, I would not deal with legal issues in Portugal such as rental contracts without the use of a good lawyer. Well meaning expats often think they understand laws and requirements and share misinformation amongst themselves. Lawyers in Portugal don't charge as much as those in the US and are well worth the time and aggravation they will save you. As far as banking in Portugal, if you have to go into the branch, it is usually a time consuming pain. In terms of fees, just a heads up, Activo Bank offers fee free account services.
You do not hire a lawyer to rent a place in Portugal. Just contact or go to one of the real estate agents in the city. If you wait too long at the bank, then you are probably broke.
@@2clarityin30 You surely do not belong to Portugal with that attitude and will be isolated. Show some respect for the country as a foreigner instead of bi**hing and complaining. Portugal is not just like the US.
@@2clarityin30 You surely do not belong to Portugal with that attitude. Show some respect for the country you are living in as a foreigner or go home. Portugal is not like the US.
Solution for a driver license -?> Get a second driver license before you leave USA (claim you lost it). Then exchange one of the license you have and get the temporary one from USA. This way you end up with 2 driver license. Not only you keep your USa DL, but also do not need to rely on the temporary DL Portugal give you that only works in portugal
Bureaucracy in Portugal is quite ok. Do your own research and speak to locals if you can. If you go to Portugal, learn the language and stay away from expat communities. They are toxic.
No country is perfect, however, Portugal definitely does it on another level. Government officials obviously don't enjoy their job and being behind the counter, they flash their power play cards on immigrants and migrants. I can relate to Kalie's IMT frustration and it took me 2 years to get a driver's licence: One year to get an appointment and one year to wait for the card to arrive. The best part is that you notarise and authenticate documents prior submission with the embassy and Traffic Police. After submission, they email Traffic Police to check if your licence's legit which blew my mind at them doing double the work and their inefficiency. My only way is to deal the inconveniences, go through the pain, then minimise as much as possible by only dealing when I need to. Madeira's more efficient than mainland though!
YES I’ve heard how banks charge you for every thing via my mom’s experience. Not a pleasant experience. My mom closed her account and has all her money in US where she lives. Just crazy!
I can see we have math issues here. You worry about paying a few euros per month at the bank, and you take money back to Uncle Tom who will take it all sooner or later. As a matter of fact, inheritance tax in Portugal is 10% and property taxes are around 0.1%.
I purchased several properties in N. Portugal and the only one I was financing was a horrible headache but the cash ones were very easy. After the bank approved me and I wad told I was good to go, they didn’t give me the money. I had already given a large downpayment for a house since I was approved and all good to go.. 😰 well.. Let me try to forget about it! Portugal has a very rooted culture of incompetence and the general population just goes with the flow. They believe they are doing it right because they just don’t know any better. Still, we decided to come to their country, so we either try to improve it or get used to it. In spite of it, it is so far a more peaceful country than where many of us come from, so I still appreciate they welcomed me here.
There are amazing aspects to Portugal, the lack of homeless and crime, good healthcare, are really noteworthy. But, maybe especially as an english speaker, the bureaucracy is just untenable and a certain level of general intransigence and traditionalism do hold sway. You almost feel like it presents a huge opportunity for people with a different attitude.
When you guys say that if a buyer or seller try to save money by not having an agent , what do you mean 20:07? Real estate agent , loan broker/agent, attorney or something else ? Just want to know what agent is in communications with the bank in order to try to assure expediency.
If it's for sale by owner, the seller won't have to pay a (5%) commission to the realtor. Some buyers don't engage with a agent either the listing agent or a buyer's agent. If they used a buyer's agent, they'd likely owe some fees either in the form of an engagement fee or commission. Sometimes, there's a commission split between the buyer's agent and the seller's agent and it tends to come from the seller's side. Both parties will need to be in communication with the bank to get the property sold a various stages. Attorneys will be paid by each party, typically at (after) closing. Mortgage brokers get paid by the bank from the closing fees that exist within the loan. I hope that help. - Josh
It's true! But keep in mind, you'll never be in a regular situation in USA, if you are portuguese, even if you spent 30 years living there! The papper work it's hell! You will never have a clue, about health insureace, never have a bank account, and never be a citizen,.
Thank you guys! ❤ it is one of my most favorite videos on your channel Although Portugal got some minus points on this one in my list! 😂 It also seems relocating to this country without knowing the language and/or having a lot of money is a recipe for a lot of headaches. I live in Canada and now for half a year back to Moscow Russia dealing with a lot of red tape (burocracy) things and tech glitches here being a dual citizen, however your stories seem much worse. Thank you for sharing!!
We've also told the awesome things about Portugal. Some people aren't patient at all so it's better to let them know up front what it takes here. - Josh & Kalie
The thing is, if you live in Portugal as a foreigner, you do not talk bad about Portugal no matter what. This shows the cultural difference between the US and Southern Europe and why Americans and Brits fail to integrate.
Let's call a spade a spade. People fell in love with the golden visa which leads to a potuguse passport--not with the country or its people. Now that that visa can no longer be obtained throug the purchase of real estate, the luster is gone and people leave in droves.
Bad things in my book and I am living here. 1. slow government, 2. lazy people, 3. very bad dog owners. 4. low I.Q. 5 spend all day drinking tiny cups of coffee. 6. Takes for ever to get anything delivered. 7. Too bloody hot in mid summer. 8. Too high a arif on imports from U.K.
I know so many people that came here from outside of Portugal and Europe, all are super happy here. You don't have to deal with these things in the video everyday. And it's not always like this, in the video she tells the worst of the worst limit, it's definetly always like that, keep calm. I also don't know anyone with problems with the imt 🫠
But ,but but…..all of these negatives are NOT keeping foreigners out of Portugal. Cascais is nothing but foreigners and the Algarve is likewise. BTW, i am Portuguese living in the States.
A vast majority of people don't know they exist until arriving. As the saying goes, you don't know what you don't know. We hope you're enjoying the US. - Josh & Kalie
The Algarve has long been the defacto british summer playground, and Cascais is the (small) city of wealthy retired brits. You picked two specific examples that don't reflect the rest of the country at all.
