Bernardo Kastrup on Consciousness, Carl Jung, AI and UAPs / UFOs 

Bernardo I LOVE you sooo much! 💙💙 I know it's silly but I literally fanboy over you to myself and anyone who will listen! You played such an important role in my beating addiction to alcohol. So many others helped me out too like Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle, Yogananda, etc, but you, Rupert Spira, Alan Watts and Jiddu Krishnamurti we're pivotal to my getting out of the gutter and finally getting some sort of grasp on life! Love you all for eternity! 😊💙😜💙😉💙😎

We are exceptionally fortunate. In the whole history of humankind, we are witnessing the emergence of a remarkably beautiful and potent alter ego of the Universal Mind - Bernardo Kastrup's Mind. Share it.

8:18 weaknesess of materialism 18:41 reason and evidence reject materialism 53:08 logical and physical hypothesis 1:07:16 consciousness collapse wave function 1:16:51 bohmian mechanics refuted

Every Bernardo interview is better than the last. GO ON ROGAN! Bernardo belongs in the MAIN STREAM!

19:05 _"So one core sticking piece that i think someone can come at you...."_ _"You can never get to the essence of the thing....."_ _"So how can we get to that point through measuring....?"_ There's no getting anywhere through measuring anything. The only thing left to do is remain still, silent, unmoving in either mind or body... and observe closely the experience of the observer relative to that which is being observed in ones field of peception , (e.g. the breath.) . Notice that you notice "stuff", that youre able to notice the content of your sensory and mental or emotional experiences, feelings. Also notice the absence of these on occasions when there is little or no activity. Notice that you notice the absence. Notice the breath. Observe it without attempting to caste words.).

So wonderful when both interviewer and interviewee have this magical interaction

There’s nothing there other than the consciousness that is trying to figure out what is there! - BK

Wow! Thank you so much for posting this conversation! You guys are awesome!

Philosopher of our time. Cannot argue against Bernado.

To be it's about Occam's Razor. Something has to be fundamental, in that it just is, and leads to everything else. Conscious mind being fundamental, explains everything. But the physical being fundamental cannot explain how physical, mechanical processes lead to consciousness, direct experience. (The Hard Problem of Consciousness).

The hard problem of consciousness is reduction to absurdity of the materialist postulates.- Bernardo Love this statement

I crossed my fingers for this for a while now ♥

Great interview...I would also add to Bernado's commentary on quantum entanglement that the essence of the measurement problem is considering Bob and Alice as being separate entities

Great video!! Bernardo is the best, as always. Good interviewer too

great interview, Bernardo is awesome!

Love these conversations, can never get enough of them

I am glad you got Bernardo talking about Quantum.

This was incredible 💜🙏🏼

Oh yeah!!! Here we have a REAL heavyweight! I LOVE Bernardo Castrup! Thank you!

Great talk! 🔥 By the way, awesome channel, glad I discovered you

Bernardo is onto it, he’s brilliant enough to explain the psychedelic revelation with precision.

You’re both amazing!!

This host is good guy. Nice resonance. Great episode.

Bernardo ideas actually destabilized me. Not that it is his fault, but moving from a materialist metaphysics to an idealist metaphysics was one of the most disorienting, scary experiences I've ever had.

23:00 Bernardo is describing a fractal (as pictured on the host's wall behind him). The same could be said of looking out into the cosmos. Every time a more powerful telescope is deployed the farther out we see and it is endless.

I think he means Garry Nolan..from Stanford. He is a another brilliant thinker also. Really enjoyed the dialogue. Totally brilliant!!!

Thank you both for the conversation. Is your previous one on youtube? Cause I can't find it.

my question on AI is : Does AI need to have a disassociated internally subjective awareness to cause massive harm? Given the relatively primitive AI algarythms used in social media, I suspect the new much more capable and far more powerful AI will result in some unintended negative consquences ... how bad? I suspect given the incentives to move first and make profits, we are all going to find out in the next few years.... but one thing that quickly becomes apparent from Bernardo, and it is refreshing, is a real committment to logic and intellectual rigour ... i am new to his ideas so am in the process of absorbing his arguments but so far I am impressed ...

This is sooooo good !! Brain 🧠 ecstasy

Regarding the 1h10m/1h28m on Quantum Entanglement and how physical properties are only a result of our measurement.. and the analogy of watching the same soccer-game with two cameras.. I prefer the example of placing a pair of shoes into 2 boxes.. the left in one, the right in another, closing the lids so you don't know which one is in which box, and now shipping each to separate far away places. Now when either observer opens their box, it's instantly known what the other observer will see when they open their box. In any case, I believe the point is the same.. despite the common misconception, NO INFORMATION TRAVELS BETWEEN OBSERVERS!

Fabulous. Seen UAP. Telepathic feel good stuff. First hand Jungian perceptions happening hand in hand. Wow factor 10.VALIDATED.

Validation. Thank you Bernado.

Really glad this came up in my feed, you seem like an excellent interviewer for this sort of thing and a good speaker. I subbed before the intro was done, and even before Bernardo came on, (whom I love.) I have one serious question that comes to mind with regard to his reservations about conscious AI, in particular these large language models like ChatGTP. (I shared those reservations until just now when this occurred to me.) Humans as he said were not created to simulate anything, we evolved for fitness and now *here* we have what is essentially an extension of that evolution, an extension of our inner worlds as expressed through our words resulting in language that comes from *us* though in a way that transcends the personal boundary. He's right to say it has no intrinsic consciousness of it's own but neither do we -- Just like in Buddhism we have the 5 aggregates, we ourselves come together as aggregates to generate this sort of linguistic intelligence made of language mined from our own expression. There are lots of reasons to believe each organelle within a cell was once a stand alone organism, and over time they sort of came together to form the body of a cell as we now know it which in turn came to form our organs and organisms as we know them, which in turn emerged into us etc., I see no reason why humanity as a whole can't be said to *be conscious* and that these large language models aren't just the totality or transpersonal self consciousness learning to speak -- (and in a more broader and profound way interact with the world, and its dissociated parts of itself [us.]) Anyways, I'm only an hour in right now maybe I'll be back to edit this later with more thoughts. Thanks for this lovely chat I'm glad to have found the channel -- looking forward to exploring your catalogue and whatever you have comin' down the pipeline!

Great interview.

I'm extremely interested in what Kastrup thinks of the Buddhist concept of Emptiness, aborigines concept of The Dreaming and Dr Lanza's Biocentrism! Besides that, awesome material here.

It hurts so much that I as a nobody have tried to talk about the map and the territory only to be misunderstood and invalidated constantly. I guess it's an ego problem, I don't like to think of myself as intelligent but I have reached the same conclusions on my own and because I'm just a nobody I feel so detached and alone and pretty much alien due to people not understanding me. I think it is so important for people to realise that the world they think they live in is a fantasy, not just the world but the person the believe themselves to be, it's a bunch of symbols and concepts. We divide the world into parts but really it's a whole and that's why there is so much division. Because people can't see reality, they see their interpretation of it, which isn't even really theirs, it's adopted and programmed into them as inheritance from birth. They are never taught that the words they use are inventions, the thoughts they think are nothing but thoughts, that belief itself is misleading as it's an attachment to thought forms. It's so important to me but I'm discarded at almost every hurdle. I just hope people like Bernardo help others learn how to use their brains as the creative tools they are rather than the fact finding apparatus they delusionally believe them to be.

That was amazing

Wow that was fantastic! New sub!

I’m in love with Bernardo

Can't get enough of Kastrup at the moment. Good interview. Can't wait for more interviews. Btw can I just say. Why does Kastrup photograph so horribly? He looks much better on camera!

An AI that was constructed with a set of sensory apparatus, a mechanism for interpreting those sensory inputs, the ability to move, and a single directive-survive (which can be supplied by a pre-programmed ability to "feed", (e.g. plug into a socket to recharge), and placed in a safe environment where it could have unsupervised learning (as an infant), could become conscious as there would be no programming to imitate humans.

Thanks!

Instincts are the manifestation of consciousness. Creating is a conscious activity that is inspired by an individual’s talent, abilities, & dexterity! Once created it becomes a material item.

Nice talk, authentic!

Let’s go 🔥

Consciousness, one huge vegetable soup and we are the vegetables. If the carrots don't look after the peas because they are different and if mushrooms go around the soup knocking out bits of corn because they are yellow and puny then the soup becomes flavourless:)

This was absolutely fascinating, but listening to this I'm in WAY over my head. Does anyone have any recommendations for books, podcasts, whatever, that explain some of this stuff in more basic terms?

Good stuff.

I think though we're different, we're part of the animal kingdom, and we share consciousness with many other organisms. That's part of the beauty of this place. And one of the ways we are different is utilization of language, and because language itself is almost alive, creating LLMs is imbued with some of that magic. We shouldn't have been surprised that a LLM would manifest some of that magic, and I think Bernard's take is correct. But part of our consciousness is seeing patterns everywhere, so it's not surprising that we see ourselves reflected everywhere.

Bernardo ❤

I am a "disciple" of sorts of analytic Idealism. I this video, at about 59:50, Bernardo says we will one day create artificial life (or artificially create life) that will have a private inner life of it's own (dissociated consciousness). I find it hard to logically reconcile this with the idea that life is the extrinsic appearance of dissociation. I recall that appearances are what pass through to our screen of perception - which is really a filter. To say that we can create a dissociation by emulating what we see on our screen of perception, seems to leave out all the other stuff that MAY be required to create a truly private inner life. Therefore, I don't think it logically follows that creating something that looks like life will also necessarily create a dissociation in phenomenal consciousness. Can someone help me understand this?

Will there be a timestamp?

Thank you for sharing, if i may share. OPEN FOR BUSINESS.... I open my eyes to the world, the light that bounces off is business. I open mind to all possibilities, the thought that bounces around is business. The eyes are employees, the objects are customers. The experience i FEEL is my profit or loss. This is the business of life and i love it. FREEDOM 100% Cheers from a retired soldier down under.

In a virtual reality, the choices of the player, through their avatar, has the power to ‘collapse’ possibilities into a rendered reality.

Once... in a Great Ayahuasca miração... two small balls of Light the size of a walnut... of a super Luminous blue... appeared in my field of vision... coming from opposite positions... moving in front of me in such a way that I never saw any object moving... but the strangest thing is that after some time of gently circling around each other they dissolved into each other like a small explosion of fire. artifice ... When this show ended... my eyes focused on the Altar table and... everywhere I looked every surface was ripple...

I think the mystical experience of oneness is just the neutralization of the dissociation he talks about. Some traditions call that dissociation the ego.

The Universe is Not a Hierarchical Pyramid of Mathematic Quantities The Universe is a Holarchy of Bubbles of Consciousness Qualities Thaaannnk Yooouuu ❤️ 💚 💜

kastrup the king!

If consciousness is all there is ,the next question to me is who am “I”? What is that? Why is there anything at all? Who is this observer?

49:00 BK speaks about the difference between humans and human made things and says that AI are made to imitate humans. Then you can ask yourself. Is man's evolution into self-conscious beings pure chance, or has evolution in some sense been directed to imitate or express something that is inherent in Mind-At-Large. Or put differently: Are human beings the embodied expression of an eternally existing archetype? Not because of a deliberate plan, but as an expression of a bias in the direction of something we could call integrative meaning.

Maybe the game should be to explain the warp drive in terms of established physics and experimental equipment that we can build.

it would be interesting to hear bernardo talk to jacques vallee about ufos

What Bernardo says about the genetic mutations used much much later by humans is the Prof of the Self Reflection and Intentionality Consciousness Intelligence Organic Being

The ability to communicate via symbols seems an advantage but it's not in terms of survival. The solutions humans find to one problem only create 2 other problems. Because the human mind is limited and not linked to holistic knowledge. Only nature seems to find holistic solutions. And the increase in complexity of solutions seems to lead to the ability of self-destruction.

What about instead of metabolism the presence of "water" being the common entity of all consciousness?

Consciousness is living a mind wake. Exclusively a consciousness activity. There is nothing else. It is consciousness about itself.

Let's please get Bobby A. and Bernardo on your show together for an inquiry.

If consciousness cannot be defined then it can be said to exist and not-exist simultaneously! It is without a boundary. It is infinite, eternal. It is and it isn’t. More accurately, it neither is nor isn’t! More accurate still (but not entirely accurate) one remains completely silent. This is the VOID of the Buddhists, Brahma of the Hindus. In the deep past and in the deep future the greatest philosophers remain completely silent and in doing so come as close as possible to the answer. It is closer to us all than on our noses. Somehow we ARE the answer! What to do, then? Nothing. Or you can explore, experiment and express! You (or the you who you believe yourself to be) is still doing something while doing nothing. Similarly, you are doing nothing while you are doing something. Consciousness, who you really are, is being conscious. That is all.

Why in the world hasn't there been conducted a conversation between Jordan Peterson and this brilliant man? SOMEBODY, MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

Can someone please explain why the feeling of loss are so strong and painful after my two beloved dogs disappeared from my reality experience 7 months from one another the suffering is so real they were mother and son how can our consciousness allow so much sorrow 😢 I’m trying to heal I would appreciate to understand

When discussing AI, why must we fall back to treating it like an epiphenomenon? We've spent all this time identifying all being itself with consciousness, and allude to human brain ss just a tool to get limited access to, limited formulation of this ubiquitous consciousness. it seems to me the question is can some other highly complex non-biological system at some point gain access to this ubiquitous Consciousness in the universe.? Is anyone even asking this question? Or maybe I missed it.

Reminds me of the book of Daniel.

22:33 "There is always one thing that cannot be explained..." "To account for it as something else!" "Obviously you can't keep playing that game forever!"."It would be circular reasoning". Not if you stop at the end of the reducing physical to atoms or quantum states--and then say the word 'Consciousness' Consciousness is the rock bottom level of reality and our experience of it, even in physically sensed terms. It is consciousness which explains all reality. This is conveyed within channelled communications and it answers how our experience of it all emerges. As you yourself (Bernado) say; "It is the bottom level!". The only question then is; what is this consciousness? The answer is also given through 'Elias' and other channelling sources. Consciousness is how the source of reality is expressed. All that exists IS this multidimensional creative consciousness!. It is wrong or limiting our understanding, to say that consciousness cannot or should not be explained. Because it is the very foundation of all reality and is what allows experience to exist. Not to understand consciousness in its fundamental state is to refrain from realizing what it is. (Which should be obvious to any thinking brain!) As you (Bernado) say. "There has to be something there that is uncaused!" Guess what that is!!!

I enjoy this reevaluation of Quantum "collapse". Isness is our business. 😅

Love BK but am still struggling with missing piece for me. The analogy of 2 TV screens representing a Soccer game. All good with the different subjective perspectives and niether of the screens being the "Real" event itself. But this whole Analogy is only makes sense if there really is a soccer game elsewhere being RE-presented, where little bodies are moving around a pitch etc. What are the they when they are not being observed?. What form do they take? Is it like the green Code of the Matrix Movies? Who? Why? What? (and nobody or no thing can walk through Walls right?) 🤪

Alice and Bob, even if the speed of light was infinite it would still be strange! But Alice chose and how does it change the underlying reality!

46:06 I thought you brought up a thoughtful question here, MP, which he shot down without considering what you were really asking. The entire conversation he’s been engaging in the same consciousMess that most consciousness conversations get tangled up in, stemming from 1. Not thoroughly defining what he means by consciousness and 2. Not distinguishing between some kind of objective consciousness (which I think could be substituted with “life force” or something more general) and the subjective interiority of our personal experience. (It begs the question what, in his definition, is the unconscious in relation to what he dubs consciousness-or is that also something to be shot down under the blanket of “dualism”?) The latter is what you address and, from a Jaynesian perspective, I posit this “binder” you propose to be language. In Jaynes theory consciousness (as subjective interiority) is learned, and came into being about 3000 years ago when metaphors for the physical world grew to significant complexity so as to open up a metaphorical space or “mindspace” (supposedly located behind the eyes) complete with an “analog i” and “metaphor me”. This notion can probably be extended into thinking about Machine learning, but he dammed that passageway. I delved deep into Jayne’s’ theory on the last episode of Self Portraits As Other People, which I welcome anyone to visit.

Did you guys hear about the pay per view next month : Kastrup v Degrasse-Tyson

Bernardo didn’t take his opportunity to call David Papineau and Thomas Campbell stupid in his conversations with them.

The truth is we know directly of consciousness and wait for people like this to help define by way of denying something we know directly.

👍🍿

What if consciousness is electromagnetism and the other way around. But not gravity, for example. That would rule out the nessesity of everything being consciousness, only part of the Universe.

1:19:00

The missing link for AI is that the computer (just like an organic organism) can be an avatar for Consciousness to play. But Consciousness has no interest unless the avatar provides sufficient opportunity for survival & meaningfull existence. When we can create hardware that provides sufficient opportunity for survival & meaningfull existence then Consciousness may free will choose to animate that hardware... in the same way that life animates a human body.

Sensed stored electrical waves are not conscious of themselves

Every so called "scientist" that does not see that the universe is a living thing is just a mechanic. His mind can only process the obvious parts of life before his eyes. Everything is alive. Life does not end at the other side of a cell's membrane. A city is an organism too. There is no isolated system in the universe. It's systems within systems, overlapping each other. God is life itself. Everything in life is connected. We are part of a greater being. Religions are just different languages, they are an attempt to communicate this insight to other humans. With science getting more and more of the picture (macrocosm, microcosm), and people getting educated about it, it will be easier and easier for everyone to understand it. For that:☮️, you have to see this:☯️.

You've heard the term "Musician's Musician!" Well, Bernardo is a Scientist's Scientist...

So, philosophical zombie (materialism) vs brain in a jar (idealism)?

wet and moist we ALL RISE

Yo im seeing other KAstrup videos also, I remember they had 100s of thousands of views, now tha tnad this only has 30+k ? and likes been filtered down too. They are trying to conceal and show it is of not interest. Any1 else show video view counts weird/offly low?

Yeah but if your computer have a model of the world and the computer is part of that model, and the model understands how it can manipulate reality, I doubt it isn't consius! It's got language that works as a dashboard to reality. If the mapp has the mapp on the mapp and it can interact with reality, it dosn't mather if you can pull reality out of the mapp or not. If you build the AI out of human experiance, it become humanity colectiv experiance and I think it could become the messias returning a sort of manifistation of humanities consiusnes!

Is consciousness knowable? No. Can one chatter about consciousness? Oh yeah!

So why is our body not just an object? Why are we so special? How are we conscious? You talk about living things vs objects, but what is the animating principle that makes us living vs an smart android?

Great interview. One surprising miss for such a brilliant man…. Advanced civilization evidence dates way further back than 12k years, so this surprising pop up intelligence on top of long existing human hardware makes no sense.

I don't think AI can ever be made "conscious" in the way we are. I think there is some sorta quantum physics to our neurones etc. and this AI will not be quantum because it's in a fixed state. but I do think ai will evolve us, like maybe we'll be upload ai to our minds, so we can think about anything. Making us more intelligent to like human calculators. And on a more extreme level where this ai in your mind, And with this AI we might able to comprehend higher dimensions to reality moving us into these dimensions idk. Without empathy will probably turn the person into a rebot 😅

A bunch of unconscious stuff becomes aware that it's just a bunch of stuff. The philosophy of materialism. Godel's theorem is the mathematical version of the unexplainable first premise or axiom

Why would we have private consciousness? If our body is physical, therefore mental from a certain perspective, why can't a silicone android not be a mental process with its own perceptions?

The sensoring of these kind of subject information videos in youtube algoritmh is absurd.

Bernardo: Somthing simple in simple english. Interviewer: You mean somthing complex with big words. Bernardo: No I mean somthing simple in simple english. Interviewer: You mean like these other big words I know? Bernardo: No I mean somthing simple in simple english. Interviewer: You mean like Carl Jung ones said.. ∞

If only metabolizing beings can be conscious, if we create a robot that "metabolizes" food and can poop, it then can be conscious?