Mark, you are a fantastic teacher, thanks for being so detailed. I also appreciate the talk on shooting (hunting) ethics, you are spot on. Love your videos.
I'm on 1m47s into this video and you've explained more in that time than the last 18 months of my viewing time on You Tube trying to learn the art of shooting. 👍👌
I am building up my first long range rifle set-up. Your video helped affirm my own thinking based on a lot of research on the subject. Thanks a lot for the work you are doing, I am learning a lot from your channel. Cheers from South Africa
I've been working on my .308 loads and data tables for a couple years now and always come back for more info to learn and see how ya'll are doing, great work and thanks for all the help and things ya'll do! Much appreciated Mark and Sam!
I'm pleased that you included the 6.5 CM, I used mine for the first time out to 1K yards some time ago after a lot of load development, favouring the Nosler 140 grain RDF's (I know, not 1 mile) and was astonished how well it shot, and it was a pretty crappy day, with poor visibility, rain, blustery wind. I was very pleasantly surprised. Good advise as always.
@@markandsamafterwork yes,I agree that it's really good work and good video! By the way I am actually trying to get into the same discipline as you are into myself,and I have some bright thoughts on this matter..So the most important improvement in my case I would say is the rifle that I use and it's very unique set of advantages over any other long range sniper rifle..So it is a heavily modified version of the PTRS-41 anti tank rifle that among the other modifications has been re-barreled and so now features the heavy and virtually indestructible chrome lined KPVT barrel that has been fitted with a nut that fits the PTRS-41 receiver and has the gas port drilled in it for the gas system to be working as it should yet the barrel thickness remains obviously the same as it was initially so it retains it's enormous reliability that remains unchallenged since 1944 till this day among all the HMG's and anti-materiel rifles' barrels that barely have a half of it's resource of 20 thousand rounds before re-lining!And in addition to such a great resource it also enables using the hotter loads than it would have been able to shoot with original barrel-in my case I generally use the powder in the same granules as the original but it is containing PETN that does make it substantially stronger than regular gunpowder..So what I get is the huge BS-41 projectile that weighs a whopping 1052 grains at an average muzzle velocity of 4200 feet per second which is actually making it's muzzle energy 3 times larger than that of a .50BMG!Also the velocity is unprecedented and it actually stays supersonic for about two miles so I suppose the potential of such a thing is very serious if I will be able to first of all improve my own skills enough for ultra long range shooting and also to refine my rifle and more importantly my ammunition for this as well than it may very well be able to set a new record of distance one day!As for now I had only practiced with it up to the maximum distance of slightly over 2000 yards(2022 to be precise)now yet I managed to achieve quite a good accuracy at that distance:I even had an opportunity to switch to a more difficult target that popped up next to the initial one and was grazing right in front of it..And it was a damn cottontail rabbit-so it actually got killed with the first shot in a very spectacular fashion:I hit the critter in the center of mass with that huge projectile and even from that distance it was still carrying enough energy to just completely pulverize the animal-the hydroshock was so unbelievably strong that first of all the head of the rabbit also disintegrated along with the scull but more importantly it turned out that at the moment of impact it was sitting on a 2 inch thick concrete thing that was barely sticking out of the ground yet when the rabbit got nailed it's shreds were so much violently thrown everywhere that part of it hit the concrete plate so hard that it shattered into 4 pieces!I believe if it hits a human sized live target-most likely it will just get thorn in two halves by the enormous power of this really huge behemoth of an anti-tank rifle that I have!Besides the obvious downside of this rifle is the size and weight of it:it's length is as huge as 7 feet 0 inches while the weight of it is 56 lbs so it is just a nightmare to actually carry this thing for me-especially in the woods(yes,I tried hunting bears with it but after about 500 meters into the forest I realized that I am so tired of carrying it that I am actually fading and very close to passing out from exhaustion so I put it on the ground and was laying next to it for 10-15 minutes before carrying it back to the car so obviously no bears were found during such a short but painfully exhausting walk)-and when I tried shooting it from prone position-the recoil was actually quite manageable due to the weight of the gun however the much more serious problem with this was actually aiming it and holding it steadily for a few seconds to make an aimed shot because of it's weight as well!Nevertheless it's not anywhere nearly as uncomfortable gun to shoot it from a bipod especially laying on the ground!
Mark, from an American Mark. Your videos are no bravo sierra down to the point truthful, entertaining and educational sir! Fun to watch and thank you for your time and content!
This video comes at the right time. Planning on going to for the first time Thunder Valley Precision in Ohio to finally try out my 300rum. They have steel out to over a mile. Love the video's.
Your other channel, Marks Workshop, showed up in my suggestions. You have the best hobbies ever man! I only watched a couple of the videos so far, but those cars look amazingly fun.
I've built a MK12 like I used in the ARMY in Afghanistan. I use my 77gr 5.56 hand loads out to 1500 yds and I'm hitting a milk jug with in ten rounds. I'm practicing for the milk jug challenge in Utah.
I am a North American hunter. I shoot 7mm rem. mag. 150-160 grain . I keep it under 500 yards. Watching you stretch out at extreme ranges is very impressive. Something I would never be confident in, but enjoy Watching your channel.
As to caliber, I settled on 7mm. I have a 7mm-08 for 1000 and thereabout, my current barrel isn't fast enough to make the 160-170 grainers happy. It will shoot Sierra 150's very nicely, although they do not stay supersonic as far. I am really eyeing a 7mm-300 for a mile gun, reportedly supersonic to approx 2200 with 195 Bergers.
If I ever get access to a mile range, Mark, I'm going to do it with .243, just for the hell of it and also to get the goat of the big money boys, with factory ammo in my stock Remington 700. Money won't buy you love nor accuracy, only perseverance will bring you nearer the goal. I truly love the points of view your videos put across. Thank you.
The one and only rifle i have taken to a mile is a factory savage model 11, with handloads though, i do shoot 100 grain federal softpoints to 1000 yards but the drop like a rock, i need about 38.5 m.o.a. of elevation with them
Another good one as always, doing the PayPal donation can be done on the RU-vid phone app aswell, that’s how I did mine, people may not know, keep it up 👍
I think you could add the 6.8 Western to this list. I have been shooting it 1000 and 1200 yards. An excellent long range cartridge. I really appreciate these high BC bullets for long distance shooting accuracy.
Excellent topic and great advice. Thanks for doing all the hard work for us. I'm just going to stick with my .300wsm. For me anything in .30 caliber is the ticket for a hunter here in the western mountains. Cheers mate !!
This year I did a long range confrence and was able to stretch my 6.5 Creedmoor out to 1500yds. and the bullet performed amazingly. What weight bullet have you been using?
I planned to do it this year. Haven't shot 1,000 yrds since the military.. hard finding 1,000 yrds in NY.. been doing 600 to 800 lately. Going to take long range class they have a 1,000 yes range
1000m+ I def agree on 6.5 CM. Even out to a mile, with the 124gr solids from Patriot Valley Arms, those are lasers out to a mile with very manageable recoil. For a mile or well past, like say 2000-2500m, I am a huge fan of the 300 norma magnum especially when you get to the 230gr and higher projectiles.
I've always followed what Mark is talking about. Switching calibers when my current rifle is feeling overly familiar. It's expensive but it keeps things interesting if you have good places to shoot.
Friends for me it’s doing something with a rifle and particular caliber that others have had trouble doing , go to where no one has every gone before ,,, that’s what’s fun and exciting for me ,,, even if it’s just out to only 3 or 400 yards . Being consistent and pinpoint accurate shot after shot ! PS. You don’t have to hit something 1,2 or 3 miles away to have fun friends , be great at whatever distance you choose to be good at ! THANKS FOR ANOTHER GREAT AND INFORMATIVE VIDEO 👍
Yes I to am glad that you talked about ethical distance for hunting. Learning to set up my Savage Precision in .300 Win Mag glad you said it can handle the job at a mile. Very much like your work on ELR shooting great stuff. Like you just want to do it. Mainly CQB shooter but have rifles that I can push to greater distance. So I bought one that can reach out and push me. It is fun.
Hi Mark, Your best video yet. Maybe you and Sam should consider more of these in the future. I’m 85 retired past naval sniper a long time ago . Living in the northeast USA 🇺🇸 I AM fortunate to shoot out to 100 yds . I have harvested Bull Elk out to 500 yds with my Tikka T3 Lite 30:06 with Berger 148 hand loaded cartridges and a Husgamaw 5-20 scope . I recently gave this set up to my best friend . The temptation to continue still exists. I’m thinking Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor 130 grains with my old scope . Your opinion please . In my time I was a world class archer , photographer, fly tyer, Olympic Archery Coach..The bottom line is your personal ability and control of your breathing. I would have liked to have been a pupil of yours . You are an excellent instructor and a credit to your profession . Keep up the great work and possibly Sam could give us a real close up and personal segment 30 sec prior to 30 sec after of your firing routine maybe a little slo mo here . Thank you 🙏🏿 both
Hi Rob, glad you liked and well, more like this to come, along with lots of different stuff as we move back into our winter season. That combo sounds like it would suit you very well, but of course you already new that, lol. Thanks you very much for the kind words and I will but some thought into that suggestion, we try to include a lot of similar in the close ups on the shooting video, but yes I hear where you are going with that, Cheers
I loved you guys before but your spiel on long range hunting outside of a second's flight time being unethical is so spot on you're elevated to god status.
Id have to say I very much agree with your statement about in 1 second an animal can move. An animal thats already moving can move a good chunk of distance while your bullet is just traveling 140yds. Its pretty surprising really..
After competing and shooting long-range for awhile; you find this weird component that is consistent amongst all calibers...gravity. If you have two bullets that are close in caliber size say 5.56, 6, & 6.5 the velocity at say 1k yards then you see the scope adjustment is almost dead on the same. If a bullet is traveling say 1540fps @ 1k, then the elevation on all three would be about 10 Mils give or take a little for elevation of range location and density altitude. You see some cool calibers at competition like 7SAUM or 300SAUM, 300WSSM, 7PRC, etc. Distance is strange in the lower calibers, because if there's not a lot of wind, then the 6mm is real difficult to beat, and I mean extraordinarily difficult, just look at 6BRA and 6 Dasher in PRS competitions. They clean house with those things. Out past 1k yards, yeah, say 1600 meters, then I'd go with a 284 Winchester or 284 Wheeler all day if it were in a competition, and if not I'd stick with 6 & 6.5. When you go past a mile, then you're dealing with maintaining supersonic long as possible to lower the transonic barrier and of course subsonic wobbling where Magnus Effect really becomes a problem early in flight. I'd go with 416 Barrett in 2-mile or a Cheytac in 372 or 375. All in all Sam, as usual you knock it outta the park with sharing of knowledge and experience brother. Keep em small and rock on sir.
As soon as my licence is approved I want to stretch each rifle i buy to its max. Ill have ready access to a 1.4km range so that's probably max distance. Im thinking at least 1 of each .22, .223, 6.5cm, .300wm/.338 lap mag. Seems like they'd cover my target aspirations quite well.
I would always say start small and work up, step by step, FYI, make sure your back drop area is part of that plan, you need as far behind the target of safe area, at least, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork that's the plan mate. Build fundamentals with .22 then .223 etc. Could I maybe skip the 223 and go straight to 6.5? Or is there enough to learn with a 223 to justify the cost and time spent with a 223? In your opinion of course
As with this video, many choices based on details, we have some videos on that and will do more, may ask at your local range of local shooters so someone can spend the time to go through all those details, Cheers
@@danielmastrangelo3778 you'll never regret having a .223 in my opinion. So cost effective and has huge training value. I spent 2 years on a 22 LR learning it inside out before I went to centerfire.
My RPR in 223 is my favorite rifle, cheap to shoot, low recoil, great at long range, I have head the opportunity to shoot it past 900 yards, I wouldn't trade it for anything, just sayin.
Great videos, I like the way you explain things, I'm getting into the longer ranges now, and tighter groups rather than just hitting the gong. Love the comment around 11.05, "Why have just one gun" I can just imagine a shooter explaining to their partner, "Well Mark suggested it" lol So nice that you have Sam to take part with you as well, much more fun shooting with someone else, I shoot with a mate and we have little friendly completions between us. Many thanks,
My uncle is a Marine had said to me 6.5 Creedmoor is an outstanding round in a mile.... we've been talking forever about the different kinds calibers 7 millimeter mag and I agree with you...
Good logical discussion & most if not all I agree with, but in the end, like alot of guys say, & there is no denying it neither, you can't beat horsepower at the end of the day . IMO kinda like comparing a team of horses vs. a model m international vs. todays mdern tractors.........considering the end goal is the same,....as in long & extreme long distances the same goal - hitting target easier.
My long range is 250 to 300m on pigs with my 30/06 and that's rare. Anything past that I'll leave to the experts. Great vid full of info. I doubt that anyone shoots ELR with as many calibres as you 2.
.280 rem might be a good delivery system for a 7mm bullet without the headaches of dealing with a belted case. The project is in works, will let ya know how it works out👍
@@markandsamafterwork Mark, here the US, Peterson Cartridge Company has came out with a new version of the 300 WM that they call the 300 WM Long. It is manufactured to fit the chamber much better than the standard SAMMI specs. After firing in my custom chambered rifle, the fired case only grew about .001 of an inch. They headspace off of the shoulder and not the belt. Excellent case life from not having to overwork the brass, as long as you use the minimal shoulder bump that your rifle actually needs to function properly. Cheers
110% correct. There really isn't a one size fits all round to recommend for ANY shooter. It boils down to what a shooter needs, can handle, can learn and can afford. I had a .308 for hunting for years because I could head shot does out to 400 easily. Had .300 winmag, 30-06 Springfield, .270...all great guns with purposes. .270 was VERY flat at shorter ranges and took down deer easily. .308 was a great game rifle and easily capable of longer ranges 500-1000 for fun. .300 winmag was devastating to medium game so I traded for the .308...but is a go-to to elk and other large game for its retained energy at distances with the right loads. A lot of this also depends on whether you hand load or buy off the shelf. A perfectly tuned gun/load with hand loads in a 6.5 creed can do better than a .300 winmag with factory ammo at your local stores. Remember, shot placement is key. A .22 LR can kill a 200 lb boar if you know how to shoot and where. So bigger is not always better; skill, knowledge and money always win. Gotta have 2 of the 3 to be competitive/relevant. I've seen some great shooters with only decent cartridges outperform guys with more known cartridges and better builds. Jerry Miculek could probably beat anyone using a flintlock...knowledge and skill.
The way you explain the cost and push and things like that does not get talked about enough. Especially the weight and grains used for hunting when you have to carry the thing around. The biggies I'll go is a 300win mag with Berger's new 245 grain. I use a 7mm 195 berger and that's plenty for anything I'll be hunting and it is still cost friendly. I am interested in getting a 308, 6.5cm, and a 243 because the brass is everywhere and cheap. Just for truck guns and nothing spectacular.. but have you had any interaction with the 6GT? That's an impressive cartridge. Little recoil and still packs a little punch. Thanks for the vids!
Dang I’m becoming a good pupil lol! I started with my old .270 and had only shot out to 300yds as a young man, now that I’m older I built a 6.5 creedmoor because I wanted a great 1000 yd rifle, then I purchased a 300 prc because I wanted a stable round for the mile. Spent lots of time on jbl ballistics to come to this conclusion.
I think the the Hornady PRC cartridges are probably a good option for the average shooter on a budget who wants to go past trans/sub sonic without building a fully custom rig.
I shoot several center fire cartridges, from 223 to 338 Lapua, but one that I really enjoy is 22lr at long distances. The range I go only goes to 550y, but for 22lr it is quite hard past 400y, and requires a lot of precision. I plan to drive during the summer to a range that stretches to a mile, and believe that my practice with the 22lr will definitely help.
Mark, As a hunter, I could not agree more with your remarks about ethical hunting distances. While I admire your skills, knowledge, and experience on being able to hit the plates the extreme distances, I find the your thoughts on the ethical consideration of shooting TOO far to be spot on. When I'm hunting, I'm usually in a blind, on a tripod, or on a climber just about all the time. And from a basic fixed position, I use a range finder to draw a number of imaginary circles at 100, 200, and 300 yards. If a deer is past 300 yards, then it walks away... I've had to help friends find deer that moved as the rifle was fired and what looked like a perfect heart/lung shot actually struck the deer a few inches off target. My 257 Roberts and 270 Winchester chambered rifles are laser beams and the 270/130g hits point blank out to 375 yards but the thing that makes me defer to closer ranges is the millisecond between my trigger squeeze and when the bullet strikes the deer. A lot can happen in that short amount of time. If I'm on the range shooting at paper or plates and I miss, oops, try again and make a better shot. When I'm hunting, there's no next shot! You've either hit or missed the deer... Or you've wounded an animal and that's a bad situation for the lot of you. With the exceptional rifles and scopes on the market today, too many people believe that having extended "target range ability" equates to extended "hunting range distance". I just wanted to say I was proud to hear you roll the "ethical hunting" remarks in to a non-hunting topic. Thank you! Take care, hope all is going well!
I guess this is more a philosophy of long range shooting discussion. And I feel you're right (I'm no long shooter) as without having done it my question be (I'm not actually asking) what weight of bullet and velocity would suit that sort of shooting, but as you pointed out, the question is a lot more complicated than some magic window. Thanks for the brain food.
I shoot a 7mm Rem. Mag and my farthest shot so far is 433 yards, dropped a whitetail like a sledge hammer hit him. I've never even considered trying to shoot a mile because I doubt if I could even hit the side of a barn at that distance but may try it just for kicks. My 700 likes the 139 grain Hornadys. Thanks and take care!
From what I’ve seen in my meager experience it’s all about the BC and the velocity you can push it to. The rest is just minor details. Of course the main factors are shooter skill and rifle quality.
Hi Mark, maybe an observation that ties into this discussion: - I recently found that my 260 Remington was quite affected by changes in wind direction ie tail wind vs head wind out at the 1600 plus mark. The wind was changing the point of impact up to 2 moa. - This isnt so much of an issue with constant wind, lighter wind or larger high velocity projies I guess. Thoughts?
As said in the video, bigger faster cartridges/bullets are also affected, just not as much, you just have learn how to deal with the wind, and pick your battles, lol, we have videos on that too, Cheers
Thank you for summarizing what took me a lot of rounds down range to find out myself. I have a follow up question... I have a hard time shooting the 338 with a 17lbs gun and be consistent. But I love the mass that the 338 deliver on target. I have the opportunity to shoot out to 2,000 yards less than one hour from home. How do I get better at shooting the 338?
Great video as always. So glad I stumbled onto your channel. Super jealous of your access to these crazy distance shots. I've got a 1,000 yard setup at home but would love to try a mile. Have you ever done any testing with the 6.5-300 Weatherby? I'm just shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor but the extremely high fps of the cartridge is intriguing. Keep up the great work!
I have the 6.5x300 Weatherby in a Vanguard. It is really fast but very expensive to shoot. Factory stuff is $3.00 a round and reloading components are hard to come by these days.
Rex Reviews: The proprietor of that website also goes way out there, and he favors a wildcat - the 7mm-300WM - when he isn't using a 338LM or something even larger. Why? The 300WM case offers a bit more capacity than your standard 7mm RM cartridge case. Berger's latest .284 projectiles have tremendous BCs and are very efficient. The 195-grain EOL Elite Hunter has a G1 of .814, which is superb.
Thank you for all your videos, my friend put me onto your channel. It's been a struggle to decide which cartridge to choose, and I've been binging your videos the last few evenings to try and learn as much as I can.
Good thing we aren’t using naval rifles as caliber refers to barrel length in proportion to the bore.. Iowa battleships had 16” 50 Caliber so 16” bore 50 caliber along… so yes it means exactly what you said but also used to describe barrel length
I have been learning to shoot distance with a .308. I'm starting to shoot good out to 1200 yds. so far. I was originally wanting to shoot twice that far for hunting reasons. But like you what you was talking about, a second can be a long time for proper placement on an animal. I still want to be able to shoot that mile though.
Thanks Man, and around 800 yards is where hunting is still about hunting depending on some details.... beyond that you need to maybe re-think that shot, get closer and make sure, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork I actually rather enjoy hunting with a muzzleloader. I usually don't shoot anything more than a hundred and fifty yards. Plus it's just one shot, gotta Make It Count.
Guys, I cant stop watching your videos, re hunting 100% I agree. I never shot a deer past 100 meters.. It's my rule. I hunt, i don't target shoot. If I want to target shoot, it will be a 24"x 24" white plate! Shooting foxes with a Tikka .17, in wind, bullet would do a slight turn with the wind and never a straight line!
Tom, how true. I read stories about guys teaching their kids to shoot elk at 1200 yards and beyond. My 15 year old daughter is a good shot out to 500 meters. BUT I thought her to be an ethical hunter. She finally took her first elk last October at a 143. She tried for seven seasons before she succeeded. She has become a very good hunter and tracker.
