Quality content :) surprised to see how much of an effect extra armor means for Halbs. Lets them survive an extra hit which means they can get an extra hit off themselves
That´s why as a kid playing this game I never upgraded attack and defense, only range. Cause I was like: Why pay resources for one or two more attack when my Teutonic Knight already have like 17 or 20.
>Be me >Trained all my life in the Burmese army, mastering the halberd. >MFW Viking pikeman is somehow a better halberdier than me. HE'S NOT A HALBERDIER! THAT'S NOT EVEN A PIKE, EITHER, IT'S A FAUCHARD! Viking: Haha, pointy blade stick go brrrr
well for all nerds who would empower their halb vs paladin or paladin vs halb play, this dynamic is much more complex than you guys think and this video gives us a glimpse into it, you might be a burgundian and end up using their cheaper to upgrade paladins and winning vs generic halbs, but then again try it against burmese next day and get destroyed without even realizing why you lost. spoiler alert, burgundian paladins 160 health will give the same result as generic paladins 180 health vs generic halbs, but those +1 and +2 and +3 numbers can change everything a lot of the times and you see it against very special paladin civs specifically. all paladins get 5 melee armor. meaning a helb does 5 damage + bonus damage vs a paladin. for a total of 37. if if you add 3 damage that's nearly a 9% damage boost. and depends on which paladin you are fighting it could make the fight end 1 hit faster. second the higher health the target and more hits the target takes the more thosse small numbers add up. so for example +3 or +4 attack might do more against paladin than it does against a hussar, where hussar dies in 3 hits and so adding 8 damaget total to the first 2 hits will not change the over all dynamic. it might change the dynamic against some niche stuff like "some extra health mongols hussars or sicilians minus bonus damage light cavs" but generally those numbes add up to a big number vs tanky targets and yes maybe the generic paladin is unaffected but most of the times people go paladins because they have a way to help their paladins or their eco to go paladins. so for example if we put it in numbers 180 health of a paladin takes 5 hits from halb "37 per hit" with the last hit is against a 32 hp paladin. that sure means it will take ALOT for a halb to get those 32 down so the 3-4 damage won't cut it, but then we look at specific paladins like franks they take 5 hits and last hit they will have 13 health remaning that means the 3 damage will result in franks paladins dying the same speed as any other paladin, 5 hits. one popular non-bloodlines paladin would be burgundians for their very cheap paladin upgrade which allows ppl to make a few more paladins than usual. burgundian paladins take 5 generic halbardier hits with the final hits being against 12 health. add 3 damage to the halb and then the burgundian paladin will die in 4. so in this case burgundian paladin vs generic halb will give you the same result as any generic paladin, but if the halb gets +3 then burgundian paladins will give a much worse result.
I like the Viking's honorable mention! I thought for a moment that you didn't include it! The last comparison really surprised me! Keep up the great work!
Wow. Cool VIdeo - Really floored by the viking pikeman outperforming standard halbs! Feels like the common thing you hear in high level casts is "well vikings dont get halb so they fall off vs cavalry", but this kinda shows otherwise. Rad!
I wouldn't say they fall off too much against cavalry (at least not generic paladins), but they tend to struggle in trash wars. They also perform quite a bit worse than halbs against some heavy cavalry units, such as Lithuanian 4-relic paladins, cataphracts, Konniks, Coustiliers, Elephants, etc. One more point: keep in mind that pikes are usually used as cheap fodder to protect siege or archers. Having less damage means they can be more safely bypassed while the cavalry kills your treb.
Contra arquero a caballo full mejoras los que serian S tier serian los que hacen 80 de daño o mas en dos golpes, como los bohemios dravidicos y burneses, se daria vuelta la tortilla
Didn't expect vikings to do so well. I wonder how aztec pikes would do. They are missing just 1 attack compared to the vikings, but less hp probably means they'll be around generic halbs or worse
This looks different in groups because of spread attacks! Keep in mind Bohemian halbs are the only ones who only need 4 hits instead of 5 vs generic paladins - an advantage not really shown in a 1v1 because of the paladins faster attack speed.
@@guidodepietro1017 yes I know! I'm not saying Japanese Halbs are bad, I'm saying Bohemian Halbs are a lot better than what you see in a 1v1 with a Paladin
@@krystofcisar469 no it does not do nothing against paladins. you are looking at it the wrong way. first of all paladins get 5 melee armor. meaning a helb does 5 damage + bonus damage vs a paladin. for a total of 37. if if you add 3 damage that's nearly a 9% damage boost. and depends on which paladin you are fighting it could make the fight end 1 hit faster. second the higher health the target and more hits the target takes the more thosse small numbers add up. so for example +3 or +4 attack might do more against paladin than it does against a hussar, where hussar dies in 3 hits and so adding 8 damaget total to the first 2 hits will not change the over all dynamic. it might change the dynamic against some niche stuff like "some extra health mongols hussars or sicilians minus bonus damage light cavs" but generally those numbes add up to a big number vs tanky targets and yes maybe the generic paladin is unaffected but most of the times people go paladins because they have a way to help their paladins or their eco to go paladins. so for example if we put it in numbers 180 health of a paladin takes 5 hits from halb "37 per hit" with the last hit is against a 32 hp paladin. that sure means it will take ALOT for a halb to get those 32 down so the 3-4 damage won't cut it, but then we look at specific paladins like franks they take 5 hits and last hit they will have 13 health remaning that means the 3 damage will result in franks paladins dying the same speed as any other paladin, 5 hits. one popular non-bloodlines paladin would be burgundians for their very cheap paladin upgrade which allows ppl to make a few more paladins than usual. burgundian paladins take 5 generic halbardier hits with the final hits being against 12 health. add 3 damage to the halb and then the burgundian paladin will die in 4. so in this case burgundian paladin vs generic halb will give you the same result as any generic paladin, but if the halb gets +3 then burgundian paladins will give a much worse result.
generally you have to see how many hits does a paladin need to die , not how much health remaining. and in case of japanese how fast probably ? but the point here is if they end up doing more damage the same number of hits to kill a paladin then the outcome of the fight won't change cuz a 1 hp paladin is still gonna do same damage as a 25 hp paladin.
somewhere below d tier. It take the paladin 4 hits to kill a halbardier or pikeman while a halbardier or pikeman deal 2 attacks in retunr. Standard halbardier deal 74 damage and a aztec pikeman does 58 damage. The viking pikeman actually does 3 attacks for 90 damage because it take 5 hits to kill a viking pikeman so they have time for doing 3 attacs. Aztecs simple does not have any good answer towards paladin except monks.
Should be equal resources or equal number with at least 10 paladins, to be fair , one on one isn't most typical. Byzantine halbediers without blast furnace could probably still fare the best with 26/27 of them instead of 20
I dont usually like the total resource comparision. Because you have a limit of 200 units. So, it comes to time, that the pop limit is reached, and the resource dont matter. If the population was unlimited, then the resource comparision would be legitimate
@@guidodepietro1017 agree. The funniest part is when people say that the Byzantines have such great trash units just because skirmishers and pikemen are cheaper. Well, having discount on the cheapest units that don't cost gold is not a big deal. Lacking blood lines and blast furnace is.
Most of the halbs attack against cavalry comes from bonus damage. +32 against cavalry, another +28 against Elephants. Most of their actual attack tends to get blocked by armour, so if you are making halbs to counter cavalry focus on armour upgrades first. If you are using them in trash wars, then melee damage becomes much more important. A FU halb deals 3x more damage against other FU halbs than one without any melee attack upgrades because the first 4 attack gets blocked by armour. You can see here that the Viking pike is great against cavalry, but awful during trash wars. Meanwhile, Aztec pikes can beat generic halbs in trash wars with their +8 attack. 8 hits vs 10.
@@maushetzer1925 I just calculated that the Roman Halberdier takes five hits to kill while the generic Halberdier only takes EXACTLY 4. Turns out one more melee armor actually make s adifference here. In trash wars I would prefer Burmese Halberdier, though.
@@maushetzer1925 Burmese, Dravidian, Japanese and Slavs are top halbs in trash wars, followed by Teuton and Roman ones, which are more tanky against melee.
