SHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY ! Most Hunters Love the Calibers they have used for years like a 300 or 7mm maybe a 270 or 308 30.06 but as long as someone Hits well than that is a Great Rifle for them .
Great series! Taking the myth and mystery out of the hunting calibers debate with real-world examples, terminal ballistics tests, and in-depth explanations that are easy to understand.
Glad you liked it and found it informative. If you ever have questions don’t hesitate to ask. Hope you’re having a good hunting season. Good luck and happy hunting
@@kool-kool my favorite bullet I used in mine was the 178 gr amax. The eld match is the new version and I would recommend it. From 178 gr to 195 gr eld match will be great for you. Another good one is the 195 TMK from Sierra.
Great video. I always appreciate reasonableness. As a new hunter, I've seen the endless debates and internet experts arguing how the 308 should be passed up for some of the magnum calibers. I started hunting last year, as I never grew up doing it. I started with 308 due to the wide availability of ammunition and an impressive selection. The recoil is manageable, ammo is everywhere and the price isn't too bad by comparison. I've been able to practice A LOT with it due to those factors. Last year I took 6 Texas Wild Hogs from 15-50 yards with Norma 150gr softpoint, and also took a 140lb Corsican Sheep from about 15 yards. A few weeks ago I took 4 more Wild Hogs which all dropped dead in their tracks with the same round, and took an Iranian Red Sheep and Painted Desert Sheep at just over 100 yards each and that same round made quick work of them. Both ran about 20 yards before keeling over and dying within 5 minutes. So far I'm very pleased with the performance of the cartridge on Medium game. I got drawn for cow Elk in Arizona for this fall, and I look forward to testing a 180gr Norma Bondstrike bullet. Thanks for the information.
Hey first off welcome to hunting and glad you’re successful. Yes it’s pretty ridiculous what some people believe. I had guys tell me that I couldn’t kill an elk with my 6mm creedmoor. I dropped a bull at 494 yards with my 6mm creedmoor with a 110 A tip. Congratulations on drawing the cow elk tag. If you go through my videos I do gel tests to show people how each bullets performs. The bondstrike is one of them. It’s not a bad bullet but I definitely would recommend other bullets over it. Good luck this year on your hunts! If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask. We all started out at the beginning and either figured it out or someone taught us. So don’t be afraid to ask questions. The only dumb question is one not asked. I try to be pretty active here so I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. Good luck and happy hunting.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Right on! Thanks for the content, I’ll check that video out! Right now as far as accuracy out of my custom built AR10 it’s between the bondstrike and the Hornady Precision Hunter 178gr ELDX. I’m getting just about a 1” group with both loads, and I’ve heard good things about the ELDX on big game!
To quote Randy Newberg. What is the best elk cartridge? "Probably the one you already have". He has proven in the field how good non magnum cartridges can be for elk. I started a few yeas back hunting primarily with short action non magnum rifles and the 6.5 Creedmoor quickly became one of my favorites. Use the right bullet for the job at hand. Bullet design and how they perform after impact matters equal to accuracy. I stopped using the 140gr eld-m in my Creedmoor for elk after having over fragmentation and under penetration issues shooting elk inside of 100 yards barley making into one lung. Still recovered them but they didn't want to go down with such little internal damage. Ribs are a bit tougher then on a deer. (Tried 143gr eld-x and they performed the same as the eld-m) I switch to the 142 gr ABLR and my issues went away. Still love the 140gr eld-m for deer and antelope. To date I have killed more elk with the 168gr A-Max out of a 308 Winchester all dead within feet of were they where shot no tracking needed. Facts don't lie and opinions without facts don't matter. Liked a lot of what you have to say. Good points.
Glad you liked the video I know of randy but haven't seen his stuff. The eld match and amax are the same thing just a slightly different shape and different tip. The eld match is just a improved amax. Both have the same amp jacket .028" thick, the same core, the tips are different materials, the eld match has a better more aerodynamic shape to improve BC. You will get identical terminal ballistics with them. The difference is the eld match will give you better external ballistics. Honestly I'm not sure why they call the eld X a eld because it's nothing more than a improved SST. Both have the same jacket .051 and tapers going forward. They have the same core etc. Honestly I'm not a big fan of the eld x the match is far superior. Sectional density plays a huge part too. Increasing your sectional density will help with high velocity close range shots. I recommend a sectional density of .260 for elk. For example a 308 using a 168 eld match or amax has a sectional density of .253. If you're getting shallow penetration at high velocity with the 168. Going with a 178 eld match or amax will increase your sectional density to .268. That will aid you in getting the proper depth of penetration required for ideal performance. Going with a smaller cartridge actually can aid you in better performance also. Not only it's easier to shoot but terminal performance. 30 cal bullets are wider and short on the lower weight bullets even the 168 gr. This gives more surface contact for expansion. Now high velocity impact the bullet will expand rapidly and will expand sometimes until its run out of bullet at the back. Fragmenting like that creates a massive wound cavity. It's not a bad thing as long as you get correct depth of penetration. Now if you go smaller you are getting a smaller diameter and longer bullet. Example the 6 creedmoor I'm using a 110 a tip which is just a improved eld match. The 110 a tip has a sectional density of .266 and is a longer bullet than the 30 cal 168 gr. This means that there's more length for the bullet to expand. So I can get better penetration with the same type of bullet simply by going to a smaller diameter. I shot a ballistics gel test with the 108 eld match high velocity out of the 6 creedmoor with a eld shoulder it the gel. It blew through and stopped towards the end of the gel perfectly mushroomed with sufficient penetration. Taking the same shot with a 30 cal 168 gr at the same velocity will give a different result. There's a lot of factors for ideal terminal performance. Bullet construction, shot placement, sectional density, impact resistance, impact velocity, and depth of penetration required. The general rule of thumb I teach with match bullets like the eld match. Over 2400 fps impact velocity head, neck, heart, and lungs are all good shots. Under 2400 fps impact velocity all shots including high shoulder are good. Now depending on all the factors you can do high shoulder higher than 2400 fps impact velocity. However that general rule of thumb will work across the board for all the good match bullets. As for the anatomy of elk vs deer. The elk ribs are only slightly thicker than a deer. Depth of penetration on the ribs is only around 1/8" difference between deer and elk. The elk ribs are slightly more dense but not by much. You are dead right opinions don't actually constitute facts. If you base your opinion on provable facts you will never be wrong. The bullet doesn't lie people do. If you're having issues with the 140 eld match you should try the 147 eld match which has a sectional density of .301. I have actually had your channel pop up a few times on my feed here due to both of us doing ballistics gel videos. If you ever have questions don't hesitate to ask.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 many years ago shortly after I started reloading I learned the wrong way that high velocity with match bullets is a bad thing. Shot an antelope perfect broadside at 70 yards with the 168 A-Max out of a 308 Winchester, I was running them hot and the antelope took off, ran a couple hundred yards then piled up. When I got to it the entrance hole was bigger then my fist. The bullet literally vaporized on Impact. I worked up a new load and brought my muzzle velocities down to the 2600 fps range and that issues went away. Harvested a mule deer at 800 yards using the new load. That was 15 plus years ago. I may try the 147 eld-m in my Creedmoor at some point, as of right now I have a lot of the 142 ABLR and my Creedmoor shoots them very accurate and man do they drop game. Love the ABLR on the business end. 10 years ago I started doing more personal testing on what is the high end and low end efftivenes of bullets. In most cases what works really good for longer range lower velocity impacts is terrible at closer ranges and vice-versa what holds together really well on really hi velocity impacts typically won't mushroom at lower velocities. With this movement in the US away from hunting and into sniping of game animals at longer ranges (don't get me wrong I'm okay with long range shooting of game animals if one can place an ethical shot and recover the animal quickly. I do it myself. I'm just willing to admit there is no real hunting involved, just spot and kill) we are seeing new bullets hit the market with tapered jackets and bonding that make them good at both. Unfortunately they don't tend to be budget friendly. Really liked the way you broke it down on what penetration is needed to reach the vitals on different animals. 30-06 was the mag of my grandfathers day and is more then enough for all huntable big game in North America. I have a few magnum rifles but I still prefer short action non magnum cartridges for my style of hunting.
So the bullet didn't vaporize or blow up on impact that's a very common misconception. People see the large entrance hole and that's the easiest thing they can think of to explain it. This is from not fully understanding terminal ballistics or bullets. What's causing the big entrance hole is the temporary wound cavity. High velocity over 2200 fps impact velocity you can achieve hydraulic shock. Water based mammals like deer, elk, etc have a elasticity point. Just like dropping a large rock into water there's a quick displacement and then the water collapses back. This temporary displacement of media is the temporary wound cavity. Hydrostatic shock is under 2200 fps impact velocity. Think of rubber bands if you stretch a rubber band in all directions until the fibers start to break and it's structurally damaged that's hydrostatic shock. This results in ruptured arteries, organs, etc. What is left after is the permanent wound cavity the crushing path from the bullet. This is why shot placement is so critical with pistols. Now over 2200 fps impact velocity you get hydraulic shock. Over the 2200 fps threshold the temporary wound cavity is so large it stretches beyond the elasticity point of the media (the body). This effectively turns the temporary wound cavity into the permanent wound cavity in the chest. When you shoot gel and you have a high velocity shot and the permanent wound cavity is 2-3x larger than the bullet expanded that's hydraulic shock. Take the same rubber band and stretch it in all directions until it explodes. What this looks like in the chest cavity is the entire chest cavity is turned into mush. A guy once described it as purée and that's a great description. Now you can be over 2200 fps and not achieve hydraulic shock if the bullet fails to perform. Now what you're seeing with the entrance hole larger than your fist is the hydraulic shock. So the bullet used based off construction at high velocity rapidly expanded causing the temporary wound cavity hydraulic shock starting at the ribs early instead of inside the chest cavity. The ribs area is stretched beyond the elasticity point causing a big hole. High velocity without the correct sectional density will result in the bullet expanding all the way to the back of the bullet and fragmenting. This is happening inside the chest cavity and the fragments are moving forward still almost like a shotgun pattern. The 168 gr is a short fat bullet. Going with a smaller diameter bullet that is longer or a heavier longer 30 cal bullet with a higher sectional density will prevent this. Now with a high enough velocity it can still cause a big entrance hole from hydraulic shock but the bullet can still be intact. I shot a fallow deer with my 300 wm 208 eld match high velocity close range. Quartering away at 220 yards placed it right on the back rib. The entrance hole was 4" and it went down hard. We recovered the bullet right in front of the opposite shoulder under the hide perfectly mushroomed. I shot a cow elk same setup at 70 yards and it dropped it dead on the spot. Entrance hole was 5" and we found the exit hole on the other side of the body. Now to high impact resistance animals I shot my bison with the same setup at 110 yards. It dropped dead on the spot. It went in and the entrance hole in the ribs was 5" the bullet went in expanded all the way destroying the entire chest cavity. The bullet went through bones and still made it through to the opposite side of the chest cavity fragmenting as it expanded violently. With the correct sectional density, impact velocity, and shot placement they work extremely well. But you got to have a good understanding of all the factors at play. I've killed deer as close as 10 feet with eld match and amax. Tapered jackets are actually not ideal or result in better performance. The thicker part of the jacket when being poured can have heavy and light spots. This will lead to wobble and loss of gyroscopic stability. Why thick jacketed hunting bullets do so poorly at long range shooting even designed more aerodynamic. The eld x in testing really struggled with transonic and subsonic flight. Where thin jacket match bullets like eld match, Berger, Sierra tmks and SMKs excels. The inconsistency in the thicker tapered jackets can also lead to inconsistencies in terminal performance especially at long range. Long range hunting isn't sniping. I always find it funny when people compare the two. Snipers are the best hunters in the world. Their job is literally stalking and outsmarting everything including wildlife. The gillie suit they use is actually from Scottish game keepers who designed it to stalk in and shoot animals like the snipe. Contrary to popular belief most sniper shots are inside 600 yards the long shots get attention but are not the norm. 90 precent of what snipers do isn't shooting. It's intelligence gathering and relaying information to the commanders in the battlefield. The shooting is what gets attention that's the sexy part of the job. Long range hunting is the same way most shots are inside 600 yards. Long range still requires skill in order to be successful. The animal you spot isn't the only animal out there. Certain animals have very long range vision so they can spook if you get busted. I can't tell you how many times I've been setup at long range and had a animal come out inside 100 yards and not know I was there. I've literally almost been stepped on by a deer the one I shot at 10 ft.
I’ve been using eldm since I started hand loading 6 years ago, I run the 130gr eldm in my 6.5-284, and the 162 eldm in my 7mag, in this time I’ve killed around 300plus deer and never lost 1 in fact most have dropped on the spot or never made it more than 10 feet, I’ve shot them from 50yds and out to as far as 1086yds, I also love the nosler accubond out of my 257 weatherby and 300 weatherby they work great aswel good expansion out to 800yds, by far the worst bullet I’ve tried is the Barnes ttsx I’ve never seen deer run so far before dying!! They say they have to be pushed fast well a 100gr ttsx out of my 257 at over 3750 fps ain’t fast enough I don’t know what is ?? Awesome knowledgeable video keep up the great work man 👍🏼
.270 win and .280 rem are pretty sweet. Same with .308 win and .338 fed. I think it depends alot on where you are hunting. Southern ranges have smaller deer than northern ranges, and western/central ranges generally have further shooting than eastern ranges. In Alberta (50 - 700 yds), most guys are shooting .270 short mag, and 300 win mag. In Ontario (20 - 200 yds), most guys are shooting .308, .243, .44mag, 30-30, 30-06 and 12 gauge shotgun.
I've been watching your videos and for some reason in many areas of my life, the "mainstream information" never seems to be correct. The more I see your videos and hear you talk the more I like your ideas. I can't recall if you tested ELDX vs ELD match.. I drew an elk tag and I have both bullets in 6.5 Creedmoor 143 grain. Which would you recommend I hunt with? Oh and btw, quick tip, learn about search engine optimization type techniques for your RU-vid descriptions. One sentence isn't good enough. Take some time to do good descriptions and quality hashtags for your videos and your views will go up. Your info is good and your channel deserve more views.
Hey thanks for the information I'm still trying to figure this out. I never planned on doing a RU-vid channel. I got enough requests from people I finally decided to. As for your question I haven't done a video comparison of the eld match and X. I did extensive testing when they first came out with multiple cartridges out to a mile. Testing supersonic, transonic, and subsonic flight. The eld match won hands down in every area. They both have the same jacket, core, and tip. The x is shaped slightly different and has a thicker tapered jacket. This results in a higher minimum impact velocity velocity of 1800 fps. The eld match has a minimum impact velocity of 1300 fps. So you get more range with the eld match. The eld X really didn't do well in transonic and subsonic flight. It would loose gyroscopic stability and tumble in the lighter bullets. Even the heavier ones didn't do great. We have done enough field testing and kills with both. I won't recommend the X personally. It's not a bad bullet but it's not great either. It's still better than most hunting bullets. But if you have the choice go eld match.
Yeah people don't understand that marketing is marketing. They are there to sell products and sometimes they are restricted on how they can market. They can be going after a certain client base etc. You also got to remember most sources magazines etc are there to promote. They aren't going to keep sending someone stuff to review and do articles etc if it's not positive. Those guys and even on RU-vid want those sponsors etc. Personally I don't take sponsors etc and have turned down a few offers. I've had friends send me bullets for testing etc to help out but none are from that company. I'm just here to give people straight information. The good the bad and the ugly. I don't mind doing a review of something but I tell people I'll tell it like it is. If it's good I'll say it's good. If it's not good I'll say it's not good. So far none of those people have actually went through with it 🤷♂️ 🤣 Again I appreciate the advice I'll start doing some research. If you ever have questions don't hesitate to ask. Happy hunting
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Awesome, thank you. That lower minimum impact velocity could be important. Thanks, I've learned a lot about terminal ballistics from you. Keep it up!
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 oh and Eben Pagan (a pretty good internet marketing guru dude used to say something like "every marketing decision is a moral decision"... you seem to stick to what you think is right. And yet, you still need to "market" your channel... it's almost your moral integrity to let people know which bullets perform in the real world (for our sake and the animals sake). I have an extensive sales background and it's just engrained into me. A great book is Russel Brunson's Expert Secrets book. I could not recommend anything better, it would apply to your channel in SOOOOO many ways. Anyway, thanks again!
Thanks for the support and information I'll have to look into that. I don't have a marketing background and prior to the last few months this has really just been the group. Now I'm getting a lot more attention from RU-vid and having to adapt. This is actually a Facebook group I created. I got tired of all drama, bad information, etc in shooting and hunting groups so I created my own. No bashing, drama or anything. Got members from all over the world. Myself and others help teach people good information and we have been compiling terminal ballistics results from around the world on different animals and bullets. That's been a incredible tool for people so I started looking and couldn't find any real good controlled testing from RU-vid. So I decided to do it especially with match and hunting bullets to show people the differences. Especially the temporary wound cavity hydraulic and hydrostatic shock. There's a lot of people out there who really don't understand and could be so much more lethal in the field with a smaller cartridge with a better bullet. Also understanding animal anatomy is very important. If you ever have a request about a certain animal etc just ask. I've killed animals from around the world. Clear up to bison with match bullets.
I’m sorry for asking more questions. I’m very torn on what to get for the future. I’m a big dude and can handle recoil. I want a cartridge that I can never doubt out to 1000m. I guess my worry is more about this idea of “magnum is less affected by wind so more reliable at range” I want to go with the 300 PRC but I know the price will kill me on ammo. All I am really worried about is to get to the point where I can hit a 10” target out to 1000 for the most part repeatability. After watching all your stuff I know a 6.5 PRC can be lethal at those ranges. This really boils down to you saying something and me seeing the facts in front of my face but my thick ass head won’t believe it. Given your skill level would you say a 10” target at 1000 with a 6.5 PRC is a repeatable thing with confidence?
As long as you do your part, have good quality ammunition, and the rifle is properly setup that’s a easy day. I shoot a 10” target at 1000 yards with my 6 creedmoor. If you watch my hunting video in Oklahoma I have a range part shooting multiple rounds on a 10” at a grand then going out to 1200 on a 12” plate. 6.5 prc is a great cartridge with the great 6.5 collection of bullets it’s a great combination that will treat you well.
7mm PRC will be announced on the 26th IIRC, if you want another option. Better ballistics than both the 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC. 2950fps w/ 180gr ELD-M out of 24" barrel is the spec submitted to saami.
I'm just just curious your thoughts on 6.5 grendel for hunting. Does the lack of speed hurt it's performance on game? Would it be sufficient for hunting elk or bear? also, are there different bullets that seem to perform best at different diameters? or do the same bullets seem to be the best terminal performers at all bullet diameters?
Hey bud so the Grendel is more than capable. You are going to limit your range with the lower muzzle velocity. However you also get a advantage with that. You can do high shoulder shots much closer due to the lower impact velocity. So if you use a 130 eld match in a 6.5 creedmoor and the 6.5 Grendel you will get the same terminal performance at the same impact velocity. So if you hit at 2000 fps impact velocity it will be the same the difference is the distance. Use eld match, a tips, Berger hybrids, or Sierra tipped match kings for best results. They will give you minimum impact velocities of 1300-1600 fps. High shoulder shots for best results 2400 fps impact or lower. Higher than that go heart or lungs. So with the same bullet in different cartridges and calibers will give you the same type of performance. The difference is the scale of the wounding. Here's a link to a gel test I did that will show you exactly what I'm talking about. m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4GhW28lbERA.html
What bullet would you suggest to those hunting in woods, so for example elk might pop out at weird angle at close distance? Would you still use match bullets shooting thru shoulder etc up to 100 yards? Probably do not want a magnum, but slower cartridge.. or simply not use at all match bullet and go with good ole partition etc? I heard eldm, bergers etc explode on shoulder from magnums at close range.... like 2800fps+ on impact. Thanks :)
They don't explode that's a common misconception. With a high enough high velocity any bullet will fragment. It expands until it runs out of bullet. What they see is a big entrance hole and think that it blew up. The bullet is going so fast it's blowing through the shoulder and fragmenting inside the chest. What actually causes the hole to be so big is because of the high impact velocity and resistance it's starting the hydraulic shock sooner and that's what is causing the bigger entrance hole. I dropped a bison at 110 yards with a 208 eld match with my 300 wm. Blew right through the bones and dropped it dead on the spot. Generally for best results I don't do shoulder shots over 2400 fps impact velocity. I have done it closer and it does penetrate and kill very effective. I just like the temporary wound cavity to start inside the chest cavity. But it's still with that close range high shoulder shot going to blow through into the chest. People drastically over estimate bones. I took a 3/8" piece of mild steel one time with a 308 168 gr amax at 100 yards. Blew a clean hole through it.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Great, thanks for an in-depth answer, amazing as usual :) Now you mentioned that you generally try not to go over 2400fps on shoulder. How about the lowest fps that you would do on shoulder with match bullets? By the way, any reason why you took 208 eld and 300win mag for bison and not something like your 308 and 168eld, or maybe something even smaller like 6.5 cm etc? Was it due to requirements of guide (i assume you hunted bison with outfiter/guide)? Kind of off topic, but would be great if you compared different burgers- hunting vld vs hunting eol, vs classic hunting, vs target vld, and vs new target LR hybrid (they have so many different ones lol). You already did regular hybrids so thanks for that :) I assume the difference mostly will come with hunting versions having thicker jacket? Thanks once again :)
The reason I used it for my bison was simply because it was new and I wanted to hunt with my new rifle and get some kills on it. As far as the minimum impact velocity that's different for every bullet. The eld match is 1300 fps minimum impact velocity. The eld x is 1800 fps minimum impact velocity. So if I'm using a eld match anything down to that. As far as the testing I'm getting bullets as I can and doing testing. Doing a couple more tomorrow in fact. The hybrids only have a target no hunting hybrid. I've tested the vld before both hunting and target but they have since changed the design because of a issue with the jacket. I'm personally not a fan of the vld.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 nah, what i meant, what would be YOUR minimum with let say eldm shooting thru shoulder? :) I heard you saying 1300 many times, but i assumed its for double lung shot :) Great, cant wait for new vid :) Thanks for doing wonderful job. There are pretty much no videos like yours on youtube, talking indepth about match bullets. Yeah, people post videos of hunting with eldms, burgers, some do gel tests, and say they work, but what you do is completely scientific, and factual and on another level.
The 1300 fps is for a shoulder shot the added impact resistance will give you more expansion at that velocity. For a softer impact resistance like coyotes I'd go 1400 fps minimum impact velocity. For myself personally though I don't go below 1340 fps impact velocity for anything. That's where you hit transonic flight and depending on how your bullet handles the transition can be the difference between a good performance and bad. Some bullets will lose gyroscopic stability and start tumbling. Some will barely be effected and everywhere in between. Even if the bullet will reliably expand below that I simply choose to stay above that even if the bullet used isn't effected. It eliminates that factor and with hunting I like to stack the odds in my favor. On these I stick to the facts and then people can make their own decisions. My personal limit for any bullet is 1340 fps minimum impact velocity. At that distance I'm going for high shoulder shots.
Great videos as always. I am going to try the Hornady A tips in my 6.5 prc, should I go heavy for caliber with the 153gr or 135gr ? Species would be deer and black bear with the occasional moose. Thanks
I recommend going with the 153 gr A tips especially with the higher velocity from the 6.5 prc for close shots. I’m actually working on a video on hunting with A tips. Showing the different ballistic gel testing and the 8 animals taken with them so far. I’ve been sick so I haven’t finished it yet. I should have it up soon so keep an eye out for it as you might find it useful. Good luck and if you have any additional questions please don’t hesitate to ask. Happy hunting.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 thanks for the reply. Get well soon my friend. I’m definitely going to start load development and follow along. Keep up the great work
The problem now is ammunition availability, it’s great to get a 6.5 but walking into a store in Northern Maine and you will find 308 , 30-06 maybe 7mm 300 win . I was just looking on line to find 338 Win Mag and they only make 2 times a year (Every site was Out of Stock ) . Your better off with a 30-06 as it can take down almost everything in North America
I bow hunted for so many years I just learned to get closer ,I'm completely happy with a thirty thirty out to 200 yds and don't feel handicapped whatsoever , matter of fact the 30 30 is a wonderful cartridge , perfect for whitetail deer
I’ve killed a lot of deer with a model 94 Winchester in 30-30. As far as getting closer goes. The majority of long range hunters also archery hunt also. The myth that long range hunters do it because they can’t get closer is completely false. It’s just another method and tool in the toolbox. The difference is that long range hunters can get in close or at distance while still delivering a precision shot exactly where they need to. Good luck this season hopefully you can smoke some deer with your 30-30.
Really appreciate the straight talk from your channel. This is the second video I have watched. I am also new to shooting and hunting (still waiting for my opportunity) but I have gotten my hands on a Savage 110 Tactical in 6.5 PRC and I've enjoyed shooting it so far. I've noticed that you say a lot of good things about the ELD Match bullets and I am wondering if you have an opinion on the Hornady Outfitter 130 gr CX bullets? The folks at Hornady are ranting and raving about the CX bullets because of it's monolithic construction and retained wait post-penetration. What do you think? Would you agree/disagree? Thanks!
Hornady is simply marketing a product as the best. Any marketing you hear you should take with a grain of salt. Hornady’s got some great bullets and bad bullets. The 3 bullets I recommend from them is the amax, eld match, and a tips. The GMX and CX aren’t very good and I don’t recommend them. If you choose or are forced to use lead free bullets. Cavity back bullets and makers are my two recommendations. They still don’t come close to the performance of bullets like eld match. Welcome to hunting glad you decided to start. If you ever have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll do my best to help get you squared away and set you up for success. What are you planning on hunting and where?
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I absolutely agree about taking marketing with a grain of salt. Thanks for the honest feedback. I've bought a few different flavors of bullets just to get a feel for what's out there (Nosler Partition, ELDX, and the CX-only one box of each because I had no idea what to expect from the performance of each type). TBH though, I haven't bought any of the match bullets yet but I will try them out. My desire is to hunt for elk, moose, and bear. I know I need some experience though so I won't turn my nose up at a chance to go deer hunting even though I am personally not interested in consuming deer meat (I had it a few times growing up and it was always an unpleasant experience). Where? I am in Southern Alberta and I would like to say that I would go anywhere the opportunity presented itself. But I have five kids and they have a lot of needs that rightly come before mine. I would like to go to Alaska one day.
@@paulcoutts762So a common problem like you experienced is the deer meat you eat tastes bad. The reason for this is because either it was a crappy butcher or the individual didn’t know what they were doing. The nasty taste comes from the silver skin and blood. People don’t age it and so it tastes bad. You need to age your animal for a minimum of 72 hours. Rigor sets in and lasts 72 hours. So if you don’t age it the meat will be tough and nasty. After rigor releases the meat will become soft. The more blood drained the better the meat will taste. I age my stuff for 2 weeks I just use a old refrigerator with a rack up top. I hang the pieces from it and leave it for 2 weeks. Another issue is people over cooking it thinking it’s got to be well done. That’s not actually true and it’s best at medium rare. I have gotten guy’s who stopped hunting because they couldn’t stand deer meat to love deer meat and start hunting again. Butchers cut a lot of corners and can be shady. Lots of the time you aren’t getting your animal. They just weigh it and throw it in a pile with everyone else’s and just give you a certain amount of meat back. I highly recommend butchering your own animals. You will need to break down the animal by different muscle groups and remove all fat and silver skin. I’ll link a instructional video for you showing you how to butcher deer etc. All wild game will need to be aged and butchered. So the video applies to deer, elk, moose, etc. Aging needs to be 34-40 degrees F hanging with air flow around it. So just make sure there’s gaps between the legs etc hanging. You can hang it in the garage if it’s cold enough too. I’d highly recommend trying eld match for hunting. Factory ammunition I’d recommend the 140 eld match or the 147 eld match. If you’re reloading I would recommend the 140 eld match. They are great bullets and will out perform the bullets you currently have.
@@paulcoutts762these guys have lots of great videos to teach you different stuff. Making summer sausage, deer jerky, etc. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tWYKxt3dBiw.htmlsi=WNRrJZ2kADfxkjiF
Great information. Has helped change my point of view. I mostly hunt where I have to trek really far in, and I am hunting deer and large hogs. I decided to get a ( short action ) .308 instead of a long action magnum. What would be a very good bullet in . 308 to kill large boars with? I am just your typical blue-collar, southern country boy, and I have always used core locts. On the small Whitetail deer here…I never have a problem, but when it comes to the large hogs, especially the boars, I have mixed results… From your comment I can tell you are not a fan of the core locts. … lol. Please give me a suggestion for a good bullet for large boars , who have very thick shoulder armor … preferably a bullet that will work for hogs and deer, If it is that time of the year. Definitely subscribing. Maybe you can change my opinion on some other topics.
I use the 168 gr eld match for deer and hogs in my 308’s. Hornady eld match 168 gr or heavier, 176 gr A tips, and 175 gr sierra TMK’s are great bullets for that and will give you superior performance. We use even 223’s for hogs and deer with eld match. Buddy does guided hog hunts for people with thermals at night. They use 223 with a eld match and a 6mm creedmoor with the 108 eld match. They kill hundreds of hogs with them.
Hello, good content, just discovered it. I’m rereading Nathan Fosters book series for a second time and I’m torn on the 168 or the 180g eldm on my new 22in 308 tikka lite. Im in Colorado and would like to use this on elk but have no personal experience with the critters. 1600fps impact velocity is my desired minimum, so in the ballpark of point blank range to roughly 600 yards at my elevation. Realistically with the wind maybe 500 max. Im also open to TMKs for the slightly thicker jacket and higher minimum impact velocity. I’m giving the TMK a try this year with a 16in 308 for mild impact velocities out to 300yds on white tail. I’m confident in this rifle/ammo combo for WT but have zero experience with elk and my new longer barreled 308. I’m also not opposed to duel loading a heavy eldx/sst and midweight eldm if the results will be more consistent than “all range” frangible. Thanks.
Hey so the tmk will expand at 1600 fps. They are very similar to the eld match actually. The eld match has a slightly thinner jacket .022”, a smaller polymer tip, and cavity. The tmk has a slightly thicker jacket .026”, has a larger meplat, larger polymer tip, and larger cavity. This aids in expansion and actually equals out. Honestly I doubt if you could tell the wound cavities apart side by side if you didn’t know which was used. Either the tmk or the eld match is a excellent choice. What is your muzzle velocity and twist rate? I recommend 2400 fps and above heart, lungs, head, or neck shots. Under 2400 fps impact velocity high shoulder shots. I don’t recommend the eld x or sst personally they don’t perform as well as the eld match or tmk. Elk really aren’t any different then hunting deer just a little more penetration required. Put a good bullet in the vitals and it will go down fast. Put one in the high shoulder or another cns shot it will drop dead on the spot. As far as weight I recommend 168 gr minimum for those bullets. If you run a 195 tmk you will have a slower muzzle velocity but the bc will win out and you will still have great ballistics especially for wind. The other benefit is the increased sectional density and lower velocity you can do high shoulder shots much closer. Have you watched the ballistics gel test videos on the eld match and tmk here?
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 just watched the videos. Very emphatic and the performance I’m looking for. I have two hunting rifles. A 16in 308 ruger gunsite scout 1x10 twist. After some experimentation I’ve stripped the front rail and irons and am running a 1.5-8x32 vortex razor and a SiCo harvester 30 suppressor. I am currently in Colorado, but use to live in Missouri so will be hunting in both locations. Literally opposite geographies... This gun is my
@@pbbananas don’t be sorry for the long reply the more information I have the better advice and help I can give. The 168 gr will work great on elk or anything else you want to hunt. A few years ago I dropped a mule deer with a 168 gr amax (the old version of the eld match) at 715 yards with a 308. I’ve killed a lot of animals with 168 gr bullets. Something I recommend I’d using a stability calculator. I’ll link the one I use here. Input your data twist rate etc and it will tell you if it’s stable or not with your gun. This can help you figure out what weight will be best for your twist rate. bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ As for using MPBR I honestly don’t recommend doing that. I have a video I’ll link talking about it. With modern scopes it’s really not necessary or the best option. When there was basically just duplex reticles it was a different story. For training I highly recommend dry firing as much as possible. All modern guns are designed to dry fire on a empty chamber. Go through the motions just like you’re taking a actual shot. This will help you iron out any issues and help you become more effective in the field. Dry firing will help you learn and master trigger control and fundamentals of marksmanship without being affected by recoil. One thing I do is record yourself dry firing and shooting. You can go back and watch it and see what you’re doing right and what you need to work on. Also take time to do it with all your hunting gear on. This will help you learn how to move, get into position, and get setup for a shot in the most efficient way. Dry firing doesn’t cost you a dime and is highly useful and effective.
I agree almost 100%. I think you are underestimating the importance of the skin thickness and structure. Different animals have very different skin structure and thickness and the tissues that offers the most resistsnce is the skin (other than bones). So if an animal has a 0.2 inches thicker skin, this can make a big difference in bullet resistance. Anyway, you are right, if the bullet is going decently fast with a decent structure and with a GOOD shot placement, any animal is gonna die quickly. Also bone structure can be dramatically diferent fron species to species. This is an amazing video anyway, you are making a great job as i akready said!
So you are correct skin on different animals changes the impact resistance. If you take the same thickness of skin with a whitetail deer and a hog. The hog’s skin is like hard leather and has more impact resistance than a whitetail deer which is very soft. So the hog will give you more rapid expansion. However the bullet is still going to go through even with match bullets with thin jackets. People drastically overestimate animals skin and bones. They make it out like animals are dinosaurs wearing armor which isn’t the case. I actually collect bones from animals including rib bones, shoulder bones, etc. I measure them and even test them shooting with ballistics gel etc. I also measure and document animals that I kill. You definitely need to understand anatomy, bullet construction, shot placement, impact velocity, etc. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t pay attention to structure or skin thickness. My point is that it’s not what lots of people think and they drastically overestimate it to a unrealistic level. Good luck this hunting season and happy hunting.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 i agree 100%, i just added a little consideration. Any animals on earth, if hit with a reasonably powerful rifle round in the right spot with a sufficient velocity to expand, will die quickly. That's it. People here in Europe often have a non practical and analytical approach to hunting, they follow many "traditional" rules very strictly without any reason, even with big drawbacks. A shoulder shot in cases when you don't want a runner are literally demonized. Another example, i was called crazy for shooting 50 lbs roe deer and 500 lbs red deer with the same cartidge, a 308 170 grains softpoint out of my b14. The fact is that my rifle shoots 0.3 MOA all day with that load and, within 250 yards, that thing is a laser and a .308 softpoint is plenty enough to kill anything quickly at that distances. I was also called irresponsible for shooting roes up to 400 meters with a 308 (this time using a more aerodynamic bullet). No animal ever survived, i never missed a shot and i never lost a single animal out of maybe 60 animals i killed. Guess what? My two setups work extremely well. Still people are convinced that, because of the big variation in size of the animals i hunt, i should use specifically choosen bullets for different species at different distances. I just look for minimum velocity needed for expansion and i always keep a 20% margin on that in order to evaluate the maximum distance i can use a bullet at. The rest is knowing animals and habitat, stalking ability, knowing when to renounce to a shot and shooting technique. That's my take and it seems we are on the same line. It's very rare to see someone i agree with on these topics even if most of what you say is just common sense! Congrats, keep on with the GREAT job. Simone :)
What is the best hunting cartridge for big game? I'm not qualified to answer that question. What I can tell you is that for me, my answer is 308 Winchester. The reason is 308 Winchester what I have right now.
Honestly that is one of the most discussed topics especially with articles. The truth is that it’s a pointless debate that is a waste of time. There’s really no such thing as the best hunting cartridge. The reality is that what the best cartridge for hunting actually is depends on you. What works best for your requirements, recoil, ballistics, bullet selection, cost, availability, type of hunting, etc. The answer is going to be different for every single person. I can take my 308 and kill any animal in the world simply by changing the bullet depending on my requirements. That’s the reality for most cartridges. So find what you’re looking for and then pick a cartridge and bullet that fits your needs. One of my favorite cartridges is my 6mm creedmoor. It’s a great balance of recoil, ballistics, bullet selection, etc. I’ve taken deer, elk, and hogs with it at close and long range.
Thanks for all this information. I went from thinking I'd need a 300 win mag for elk to now considering something as low as a 6mm Creed for the low ammo costs (more practice) and less recoil. Any concerns with something that small on elk? Or would it be worth it to jump up to 6.5 Creed or 6.5 PRC? The PRC looks amazing but ammo costs would mean less time practicing so I'm torn on it. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter!
This coming up elk season I'll be taking my 6 creedmoor with a 110 a tip. I got plenty of buddies who kill elk with them. I love my 6 creedmoor almost no recoil and I can watch the bullet hit. If you watch my latest video it's of my oklahoma hunt and range time. Doing headshots on steel out to 800 yards and small targets 10" etc out to 1350 yards. Then dropped a doe at 513 yards and a buck at 516 yards. I also have ballistics gel videos with the 6 creedmoor with 108 eld match and 110 a tips. The hunting video I show the terminal damage on the doe. So you can see ballistics gel tests and real life results.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Wow, thanks for the quick response! Those videos are great stuff too. On an elk, what's the minimum impact velocity you're looking at when you take that 6 creed out? And you think there's minimal benefit to the higher sectional density of a 6.5 or 6.5 PRC?
Minimum impact velocity depends on the bullet construction. Eld match and a tips it's 1400 fps minimum impact velocity. Go heavy on the bullets in 6mm or 6.5mm to increase bc and sectional density. This will aid you in short range high velocity and long range. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask
Will the 208gr ELD-M Have enough velocity and energy @ 500yrd to drop an elk from a 300WM. I'm going crazy on finding a good rounds for this. I've used SST. American Whitetail. Winchester Super X. Black Hills. Sierra bullets. In 180gr & 200gr. And they all need @ lest 3 shot placement get the damn job done. One or two shots be great please help I'm going crazy 😖 🇺🇸 2A 🇺🇸
Energy is only a potential and it's directly dependent on the bullets performance. I don't worry as much about energy as I do the bullet. Every bullet has a minimum impact velocity for expansion eld match is 1300-1400 depending on the impact resistance. That's how you find your effective range based off your bullet. High shoulder shots I highly recommend for long range as it will drop dead on the spot
The new core lokts that are tipped aren’t monolithics. They’re a lead core bullet just like the old ones just with a few changes. Honestly they were trying to get in the game with everyone else especially long range. They basically polished a turd and really didn’t accomplish anything. It’s not good as a long range bullet because it’s a flat base bullet increasing drag and decreasing BC. It being tipped does improve the reliability and terminal performance over the old core lokts. The jacket thickness etc however requires a higher minimum impact velocity so once again limiting range especially with the higher drag. Is it better than the original core lokts? Yes. Would I recommend it to people? No.
i realy liked the word 6.5 55 :P its an great cartridge. from norway so i know what it can do :P i have not hunted with mach bullets. but wee over here like the bullet to not destroy to much meet but do a good jobb att the same time. wee are att that point that we need to start with this mono bullets and what i see is the 308w with the same bullet is nicer to the meet than my 6.5 55. but that becausa of the velocity i think. wee hunt inside of 220yards so :P hehe
The max range is going to be based off the bullets minimum impact velocity. For eld match that’s going to be wherever it hits 1400 fps impact velocity. What distance that is will depend on what 6.5 cartridge, muzzle velocity, bs, and environmental conditions. If you watch my video on small cartridges for big game there’s examples of guy’s killing elk over 1000 yards with a 6.5 creedmoor.
honestly, i think this is why the .30-06 round nose is considered to be and is a bear killer. its moving slower, its shape allows for maximum expansion, it retains mass for a long wound channel. same reason the .30-30 always seems to punch way out of its league compared to modern rounds. there is an old gunsmith running around on youtube that swears that the 7mag is the best hunting round ever created. he also says that only round nose and old style lead soft points are effective on game. of course, when you drive a bonded bullet at extreme velocities into soft tissue, what do you get. failure to expand and pretty exit holes.
Yeah I used round nose bullets for a long time. The larger surface contact aids in expansion more rapidly. I think you’re referring to Randy aka the “real” gunsmith. He’s a old crack pot who is stuck in the past and even back then most of what he says isn’t correct. It’s funny Hornady in a recent podcast mentioned him. They said that there’s a old gunsmith on RU-vid who thinks he knows what is going on in the industry but he really doesn’t. The truth is that Randy is a small time gunsmith who is greatly embellishing his reputation and credentials. If it wasn’t for RU-vid the vast majority of people wouldn’t have a clue who he is. He’s loosing business because of the advances. People don’t want to pay him thousands of dollars when they can buy a factory rifle that shoots just as good for a fraction of the price. That’s one reason why Randy has attacked the industry claiming that they are lying about accuracy of factory rifles. He claims that they are lying that a factory rifle can achieve 1 moa accuracy. That only a gun like HE makes is capable of that. That nobody can make a better rifle than him. He is doing more damage to hunters than most anti hunters. Between his lies and attacks on everyone in the industry.
What If you CAN handle recoil, what if you have time behind the magnums and shoot them sub moa at 100 yards and sub milk jug at 500 yards, more velocity absolutely delivers more terminal performance, PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT is always king, Magnum or otherwise, nothing Hornady produces can kill emphatically as the old Nosler Partition on a shot by shot basis on big game
The partition was and still is a half assed solution to the problems bullets of yesteryear faced. Bullet technology has come a long way and frankly hornady has been producing bullets for a long time that perform head and shoulders above the “old golden standard” that was the partition. The future is now old man, and if you could ever get off your soap box and try something new fangled you’ll be pleasantly surprised by what you find.
There is nothing wrong with magnums if you’re capable of handling them without negatively affecting your fundamentals of marksmanship. The problem is that the majority of people can’t. The magnum will allow for faster velocity with heavier projectiles. The larger diameter, surface area, weight, and length. That will result in a larger scale of wounding than the same bullet in a smaller weight and caliber. I gotta say that I have never heard anyone ever say sub milk jug before. As for your thoughts on the partitions and Hornady. That’s incorrect the partitions are decent bullets. However they are a old design and doesn’t allow for the same level of terminal performance as newer bullets. There’s several bullets from Hornady that will dominate the partitions in every category. I was using partitions actually prior to using Hornady. I switched because of the better external ballistics and better terminal ballistics. Saying that the partition is better is based solely off opinion not factual data. Both in controlled testing in gel and on animals. The partitions are a decent bullet but definitely not the best.
I’ve always thought an AR-10 or M1A in .308 with a good bullet, would make a far better companion while fly fishing in bear country than a double 375 HH. But you can’t tell the internet that. Calling people pussies for bring recoil shy also really irritates me. I for one, completely dislocated my shoulder while playing football. Since then, a hunting weight, unmuzzle braked 30-06 sends a sharp pain through my shoulder, and down my arm. So yeah, if I can drop an animal with a 6.5 cm, there is no chance in hell I am going to grab a 7lb, crown muzzle 338 wm. Call me a pussy all you want, but I’d bet my bottom dollar, if your shoulder felt what mine feels, you’d pick a gun with less recoil too.
Anyone saying that someone is a pussy for using a smaller cartridge is just insecure. Trying to make themselves seem better by putting down others. You are right that a AR10 in 308 or 6.5 with a good bullet would be more effective than the h&h setup. You would have rapid fire capabilities and easy to deploy.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 rapid fire and easy to deploy seems kinda important when a bear come charging out of nowhere. I’ve never understood making a “guide gun” a bolt action. Unless its purely a weight thing.
Guide guns especially for bears are usually to put down the bear if the client wounds it. They are usually a better shot than the client. Most of the guides I know carry a pistol for close up work. But even with guides just because you can guide someone into a animal doesn't mean you're a expert shot or understand terminal ballistics. If they did understand they would be recommending what bullets to use and not what cartridge.
If you're going to run smk I recommend you open the hole with a 1/16" drill bit to prevent necking over or penciling. The hollow point can in some cases clog and turn effectively into a fmj penciling through or tumbling and changing directions. I've killed a lot with SMK's and they work unfortunately they do neck over sometimes. If you can find TMK's they are Sierras version of the eld match and very good bullets
Everyone knows the 300 Weatherby is the best😅 So exactly what is different between 308 Win and 30 cal mags? Bullet performance at distance. At 600 yards on an elk, I'll take my 300 RUM. You can shoot your lil 308😅. IMO, ELDXs are poor hunting bullets! You're suggesting a match bullet for hunting? I've hunted the world. In general bigger bullets kill better. Every elk I've shot with a big 7, required multiple well placed shots. To stop it from running down some hell hole. Every elk I've shot with a 338 Win, drop at the shot. Sure you can kill anything with a 6.5. Have fun, not for me. Hunting is tougher, more expensive and limited these days. I want the advantage of carrying too much gun. FYI, even the mighty 375 H&H is not a stopping gun! One angry bull moose took 5 well placed 375 shots, to stop a close range charge. My guides 30-06 had no effect.
Force of habit to say that 😂 there’s a group of us that share information, data, etc. So I know I’m doing the videos but I’m so used to saying we i say it in the videos even when it’s just me in the video.
"Shot placement is everything!" Incorrect statement. Why? Not because it's not important, but because the way this statement is phrased makes it exclusive exaggeration. "Shot placement is high priority!" That's much better. Much more truthful as well. Words matter, it's how people start wars, end relationships, soften rage, change the course of someone's life. By words.
They did a very good job with the prc cartridges. I have friends who hunt with them and love them. But ultimately it's still down to bullet selection on how it will perform. The 208 eld match, 215 Berger hybrids, and 230 hornady A tips are the top ones they are using with great results. What's your rifle setup scope, rifle, etc?
It was a planned rifle that I had to shelf due to budget restrictions. BUT! When it IS built. It will be a rem 700 (or clone) fitted with a Macmillan stock and an osprey 4-40. And just because 300PRC smacks like a runaway freight train I will call it mjolnir.
Everyone starts at the beginning and goes from there. The hard part for most people is digging through everything and trying to figure out what is actually correct. That's why I do these videos to help educate people on correct information. I actually didn't want to do RU-vid. I finally did after a year of people asking me to do it. Gotta admit it's fun especially the ballistics gel videos but a lot of work. But if it helps people become better then it's worth it.
I'd recommend a 700 clone honestly especially a custom action. Honestly by the time you get a 700 action and get it trued and blueprinted you are in custom action prices. The custom 700 clone will give you better results and you still have all the aftermarket options for a 700 action.
So the 6.8 western is a modified 270 wsm. They made the case shorter to allow for longer higher bc bullets while still in a short action. Problem is that there’s really not a lot of bullet options in 270 caliber. The bullet is what determines performance. Hopefully in the future companies will put out some good options for 270 caliber bullets. The 300 wm has far more and better options for bullets but has more recoil and is a long action. If you’re looking for something like the 6.8 but you actually have lots of great bullet options you should consider the 6.5 prc. Great bullet options, ballistics, lower recoiling, short action, available ammunition, etc. If you’re set on those two options I’d go 300 wm for the bullet and gun options.
5.56 will drop any large game in North America. .308 will do it further out. Your magnum rounds stretch that range further and so on. If you take game too close with those magnums you just waste meat. Fundamentals are what matters more than anything else.
Thats bc core lokt has worked for us over and over and over round after round after round it mushroom expands and thats what us natives wants we hunt and eat the animals we hunt for food we dont have no damn food market atore to go to everyday theyre expensive af
You need a anatomy lesson the brain stem goes from the back of the skull to the spinal cord. It’s connected around where the shoulder meet at the brachial plexus.
@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 this is not the case. The brain stem in hunans is little over 3" long, meaning it connects to the spinal cord in the neck. I don't see why it would be different for any wild game
@@Francoisdumon458 humans are the same brain stem goes from the brain cavity down the neck to the brachial plexus and the spinal cord. Animals are different in length of their necks so naturally they have longer brain stems.
The brain stem is an integral part of the BRAIN, therefore it would logically not extend down the entire length of the neck, especially with how long the neck of a deer is... So agree to disagree 🤷 Regardless, the high shoulder shot disrupts the cns which is what matters
You should never recommend a match bullet for hunting elk🤔😳 I might know since I have been hunting reloading and have been a gun collector 60+ years! When I was a kid my father reloaded for his pre64 in 308 in the 50’s and 60’s with Partitons that he got from John Nosler after seeing how poor bullet performance! It’s irresponsible to recommend match bullets for hunting elk!
I hate to break it to you but hunting and reloading for a long time doesn’t make you a expert. It definitely doesn’t translate into knowledge of terminal ballistics or bullet construction and design. You also seem to be stuck in the past it’s not 1950 anymore. Match bullets perform better and more reliably than traditional hunting bullets. That’s literally why I switched from partitions, accubond, core lokts, etc to match bullets. The match bullet gives me better accuracy, better external ballistics, better terminal ballistics, and is more reliable. Every single person who has switched over to match bullets from my recommendation. They have all found better performance and switched. You are literally arguing against better performance and faster more ethical kills.
