Pheonix played the origins of the Joker to perfection, Ledger played the prime Joker to perfection. It isn't really fair to compare. Can we all just agree both were incredible?
Clipper fan since 2012 unfortunately that’s the world we live in, just like how it’s ridiculous that the media is saying this movie is condoning violence. It’s been the same shit for 40 years. Video games, movies, etc. Just the world we live in today unfortunately. It’s like people forgot what the joker character was.
Yes! Ledger played a Joker who has already gone over the edge, while Pheonix played the version still trying to hold it all together, but we get to see him go over the edge. #LetoCanFuckRightOffToFuckOffityLand.
You just can't label one joker psychotic all of them are. Every joker movie or cartoon he's psychotic, Joaquin joker was ass/trash garbage plot and to think about it he was to fucking old. To try to have him that old with a job and being depressed, would of been better if he were in his teenage years going through a depressed mode and from there a psycho was born. But heaths joker deserves to be labeled psychotic/mastermind and everything else. We have yet to see a better joker than heaths
@@Eboo85str8OD Yeah well Phoenix's Joker ain't the real Joker anyway. All that was just his psychotic hallucinations firing up. It is made pretty clear in the movie if you watch it like you would watch Inception. The Devil is in the details.
Ledger's Joker wanted to watch the world burn because he saw the world as a joke. Phoenix's Joker wanted to watch the world burn because the world saw him as a joke.
@@seattlebeast6165 well yes but actually no he wanted to show that humanity will turn against eachother to show that eveyone is as crazy as him and while doing that he also put the mobs off business and exposed a bunch of corrupted cops
Well, I agree because even though it might scare us, most of us can follow the way of thinking of Joaquin's Joker. We get a look of his tragical, traumatizing life, his motives and reasons why, and we can see how he slowly slips into the path of destructing. We see how he becomes Joker. And even though I really loved Joker because of Heath, Joaquin gave me that deeply shocking effect what I was looking for in the caracter of the Joker. He gave me the feeling of 'holy shit I understand how all these tragedy, trauma and depression became so much to him that he stopped feeling these kinda things. I understand why all the craziness made him lose his mind. And that, in my personal opinion, makes him the most amazing villain I've ever seen.
@@tzytzy7171 No, he's not dissing Phoenix's Joker or anything (because I think the majority can agree that he was great), but Joker as a character really isn't meant to be understood, which is what has made him so iconic. One of my favorite lines from him is: "If I have to have a past, then I prefer it to be multiple choice." Ledger's Joker was a harbinger of chaos. Phoenix's Joker was a victim of it. And Leto...well we don't talk about that Joker here.
Me, too. I am fan of Ledger. When he passed away, there was a deep sorrow in me. His famous movie Brokeback cannot be forgotten. However, Phoenix plays well, too. We don't need to compare them. They are both gorgeous actors
Really? I disagree..... Looking down, this is Heaths LEGACY.... Phoenix was a "friend".... I would never try to TOP my deceased friends legacy.... why doesn't he do Stand By Me remake while he's at it... plays Rivers part.
@@batman4452 Even tho it's his legacy it doesn't mean that his friend can't play the same role. I think Phoenix wanted to do the role and he was really dedicated to the role because he wanted to pay respect for Heath Ledger's legacy. He did his all because he knew how amazingly Ledger played Joker. If he really didn't care he would do as bad of a job as Jared Leto. Jared's Joker was so bad and definitely did not do Heath Ledger's Joker any justice. I think both Phoenix and Ledger did amazing job as Joker and both of their hard work should be noticed.
I like how Phoenix didnt try to copy Ledger just made his own version of the Joker. Edit: Thanks guys for the votes I wasn't expecting these many likes 😂👍
No disrespect to Joaquin Phoenix and Jack Nicholson, who are both in my top 10 actors of all time. But what Heath Ledger did in that movie, people wont say it, because it's a Batman movie, it's not a serious drama, but I'll say it, it's the most breathtaking acting in the whole history of cinema... It's up there with Jack Nicholson's flight over the coockoo's nest, and stuff that Meryl Streep seems only able to do... In retrospect, the whole batman world seems too small for the kind of performance Heath gave us in this. Literally, each and every mannerism is so meticulously created for this character, each and every tone change, his smacking of the lips, licking, his unpredictability, I feel that he was so into it that it must have been scary to be Maggie Gylenhall or any of the other actors which he gave the ''you know how I got this smile?'' talk, it literally seems like he was close to actually physically hurting the actors, let alone play the part well... And the whole script behind it, made it something special, which I also have no doubt that Heaths improvised stuff, which was A LOT of it, have added so much color that it all made it believable... I remember, watching the movie for the first time... And nobody needed to tell me that I saw something that I'll maybe never see again in film... Just like it was when you first saw LOTR or something... I just put the movie on, again, and again, I've seen it 4 times in the first 24 hours that I had access to the movie for the first time. I mean, I know it's all subjective, and people will love someone else, don't get me wrong, Phoenix is an awe inspiring actor, and his movie was more of a character study on a psychotic, schizophrenic guy with really demoralizing circumstances and self-esteem... But to me, the script for that movie seemed like, ''We have to make this a sick movie, so that it's more crazy than the dark knight'', but in the end, the movie ended up being really hard to watch because it's about actual mental illness basically, it's going too deep into hopelessness... So it does leave a strong feeling afterwards, it wont leave you feeling indifferent... But Heaths Joker, freaking keeps you peeled to the screen, I want to relieve that brilliance, every second of it... It's like watching the best of the best, at their prime, crushing it, doing what they were born to do, at their finest... What Heath did is, just like the moment Cobain wrote Smells Like Teen Spirit.... it's a freaking masterpiece, and we can all just admire it... Lol, just HAD to write a long Heath appreciation post, sorry. And again, I'm really grateful for Nicholson and Phoenix, both are legends, there's no taking away from them what so ever. This was just Heaths role of the lifetime...
@@user-ex7yq6xq9s Phoenix can’t stop smoking yo I do k ow that right? Even irl he can’t stop smoking he’s also a addict you just can’t talk about one person🤡
@Jacob Molyneux just ignore him i mean we all have opinion but this dude doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about...ok maybe only that he is kinda too old but if you look at comic perspective nobody knows who joker realy is nobody knows his origin only that joker is an idea
Yes, but the problem with the Phoenix Joker is that you can't actually envision him ever becoming the Ledger joker. He's weak, and incapable of developing a strategic plan. Joker at his best is a perfect blend of crazy psychopath AND strategic mastermind. The origin story only highlighted Joker as a mentally ill, psychopath. As it stands, I can't see him ever becoming a criminal mastermind. He didn't have the personality for it. None of that was developed at all. In my opinion, a BIG missed opportunity.
The fact that Michael Caine forgot his text when Ledger came in at the party, because he was so shocked of his appearance and acting says everything about how great Ledgers performance was.
*Mark Hamill* - Best cartoon joker *Heath Ledger* - Best Joker in his prime *Joaquin Phoenix* - Best Joker Origin Story *Jared Leto* - Best Joker without the *"R"*
@@Bigpoppapump24 THANK YOU! Ive waited along time for someone to acknowledge Cameron Monaghey's performace as Jeremiah from Gotham. no offense to Joaquin Phoenix but Jereiah's is the true Joker orgin
+Ondřej Machovský Cesar Romero was fantastic, too. He played Joker in the "Batman" television series from the 1960s! For real, check him out. The perfect Joker comic book representation from that time period. :)
@@Cheatrrr Thats why I havent seen it yet. It doesnt feel like Joker. Heath literally defined how Joker should have been and thats a tough mold to break. Totally unhinged.
@@picallo1 you should see it, it shows his decent into madness. It left me thinking would I have reacted the same way he did? And I answered yes in some ways more then others
Stan and so your opinion is invalid and biased. The movie is how he becomes joker. Simple as that. It is a masterpiece. Both ledger and phoenix played the part perfectly and comparing them is impossible. Which is why this video is complete and utter horseshit.
Can we talk about how Heath Ledger learned to put on his own makeup for every shoot as part of him diving deep into method acting? That alone should stand out as truly excellent.
@Christian Stewart well the joker role will be heath but sadly he pass if he had a whole movie God damn think of all he can do the movie batman it self it focus more on joker instead of batman
Lets all be fair enough to admit that Heath Ledger introduced us all to a totally new version of Joker. The one which made us a fan of the antagonist. Joaquin Phoenix did a splendid job of improvising it, but the canvas was already made by Heath Ledger.
There will never be a 2nd movie the joker won’t be a mob boss it doesn’t work with this story and really think about it this is so life like ..Batman doesn’t fit in this universe he doesn’t exist Bruce Wayne does but that’s it
Joaquin carried the entire movie, his discomfort during his first show was absolutely gives you the cringes but you felt a sadness as well. He brought depth to the character.
Ralph I think its not fair to compare because they are drastically different characters. Phoenix's joker snaps after abuse, whereas ledgers joker didn't snap because there was he had no concept of morality in this first place. I would say Phoenix's joker is a Sociopath; driven to insanity and crime by external factors. Ledgers joker is a psychopath, born without any true moral compass and unable to feel. Ledgers joker is more of an existential threat to Gotham, as Alfred put it, some men can't be reasoned or negotiated with, some men just want to watch world burn. Phoenix's joker can be. Both wonderfully played. In my opinion I prefer ledgers performance and his take on the joker. More menacing
Ledger carried the movie, and that's saying something considering its one of the greatest comic book movies and also he isn't in many scenes. The anticipation of the next scene of him possibly appearing in was what I remember most about seeing it for the first time in the theatre
Matt Mohr Joaquin did the better Joker character. Just taking the concept of what it means to be a “Joker” from the roots and becoming just THAT. Heath did the better Joker to combat Batman. The villain archetype.
@@superexclusive452 Ledger changed the way Joker is and has been portrayed ever since. Even the Leto joker was a poor imitation of the Ledger joker. Prior to Heath, Joker was a criminal mastermind in a costume. Period. Now he's a sociopath with a multi-faceted personality. And this is all thanks to how Nolan wrote him and Ledger portrayed him. Ledger IS the Joker just as much as Reeves was Superman. This is not up for debate. Thank you.
Lil Bella #YungestCumeDumperOfTheCentery I'm not a big fan of the joker having a history of abuse and that's why he lost his mind. The better concept of Joker is he never had a moral compass and the ability to show and feel empathy his whole life.That is ledgers version. Think of little Michael Myers from Halloween, who murdered and showed no remorse. He was born without the ability to feel. A disfunction of the brain. That is ledgers version. Not phoenix's. That is why ledgers version is more menacing and a much bigger existential threat to gotham
Thank you for stating this. I've read alot of comments. I don't think people understand that arthur fleck is simply a side story of the joker universe, he is not the original character.
Ledger's joker is extremely intelligent. He is totally in control of his emotions. Phoenix's joker is emotionally traumatised. He is totally consumed by his trauma. As an adversary, he is just one step away from committing suicide or making a fatal error. Ledger's joker is an invincible enemy. Phoenix's joker is an extremely dangerous one.
@Josef Jackson Right. But if one has to disagree for the sake of disagreement, I can say that Phoenix's Joker is not to be under-estimated. Anybody who does not have to think twice before killing another man is an extremely dangerous enemy. On a scale of difficulty, his Joker is probably 6.5/10 while Ledger's Joker is 9.75/10.
It makes you wonder though how Ledger's Joker got good at planning and scheming, and even though Pheonix's Joker may not be good at it he does have an army, I wonder if there will be a movie about the in-between part.
While Phoenix’s joker has an army, what good is that without the brains to control it? Ledger’s joker would know precisely what to do with that army and how to command them. I mean Ledger’s joker bought out the two most trusted detectives going against him before he even made his first move. I literally rewatched both of them tonight and Ledger’s joker had me on edge still to this day. Not to diminish how good Phoenix was, but the joker isn’t even supposed to understand himself. From the moment he was made as a character he had no back story for a reason. With that being said one of my favorite lines of the joker is “if I have to have a past, I’d prefer it to be multiple choice”. And Ledger hit the nail directly on the head, and that’s more of a critique perspective.
I feel like you can’t really compare the two because in The Dark Knight, the Joker was already very much the Joker and has been insane for years already. But in Joker, it shows him as a somewhat normal person and his decent into madness. So they really are two different types of people...
That actually is perfect. I considered watching Joker that Joaquin was more playing Arthur Fleck having a breakdown than watching THE JOKER being created.
That's because joker film is all about joker and dark knight wasn't about joker yet he nailed and overshadowed the batman, comparing and having these types of feelings don't make any sense.
This is the reason why Heath's is better imo. I feel like this new movie makes The Joker just like everyone else. They tell a sad story and make you feel bad for him and in a way "justifies" him. I never felt bad for Heath's Joker even when he told those weird fake stories about his past. I liked that with Heath and other Jokers we never needed to see this long build up of him being mistreated in order for us to understand him, but I still feel for him. To me the best thing about The Joker was never knowing for sure who he is or where he keeps from and hes crazy just because.
Exactly. I do really love Heath's portrayal. But Joaquin's felt in my opinion more like an original screenplay rather than a comic book adaptation. That's why I think his portrayal and the movie will become a timeless classic that even non comic book fans will admire for years.
@@remdolf07 Health perfected the classic comic book psychopath. Phoenix is a completely fresh take on the character. The sense of realism he adds is not only an utterly terrifying wake up call to the effects society can have on different people, it's almost beautiful in a sense. They are such different characters and they should be loved in their own respects, but never compared.
@@jakobvaden7106 What do you mean, never compared? They're playing the same character! Nah, Heath did such an amazing job, you can't follow him. They could've told the same story but with another character. Call him Laugher instead. A character like joker isn't supposed to be humanized. You're not supposed to know his name. 'Arthur', hahaha!
The biggest difference is that Ledgers Joker created chaos and Phoenix Joker was created by chaos. I personally think both did an amazing job! We shouldn't make a competition!
I think it's good they both have a different spin on the character, if phoenix copied ledger then that's all people would be saying. I think tbge both were excellent. 👍
Score Magnet heaths joker is exactly like the joker go read the first issue of Batman and you’ll see that there the same, I understand what you mean by most comics as in late 70s and early/mid 80s comics but those were during the campy times whilst before that joker was more evil and realistic
I think the full spectrum of Heath Ledger’s joker can be found in the scene he captures a civilian dressed as Batman. When he growls the words “LOOK AT ME” it’s enough to send chills down your spine.
Heath joker was different...joqaine is different..heath's joker was more of a crazy anarchist...phoenix's joker is totally lunatic which is little accurate to comics...for both are awesome
It means that the character is more significant to our human comprehension and that is what's frightening to people. Violence will never seize if people do not give movies like these the reality check they deserve.
I actually we can The joker as a joker in the joaquin phoenix wasnt perfect We never got to see the prime of joker we just saw the origin so we obviously cant tell what the new joker could do in a stand up story that is not an origin Also even if the performance i beleive that Joaquin phoenix was the best.if you have seen jack Nicholson act in " the shining" you can understanf what im telling But heath ledger is better because of the mastermind he was In the new joker we only got to see his inner self and pathetic side
Joaquin's was the beginning of Joker, he wasn't as confident and self aware, but at the end Joaquin's Joker was on his way to the Joker we know that Heath managed to capture. So the categories you judged them by are unfair to both actors.
Heath actually is like as if he was joker. He died because he want to see how insane joker is and he wanted to make the movie so realistic that he even told Bale to actually beat him.
it's not his fault he sucked. Hey, he'll always have Dallas Buyers Club. I think we can all agree the dumb bitch reading this script is the worst of all.
@@lateralus7l233 he just proved to be an idiot when preparing to the role and not coming close to Phoenix's performance, who only lost weight for the role.
Thats really true if heath ledger havent acted as joker in the movie dark knight no one would be caring the role joker his perfection in acting make this much of fans for him
Alex M dude seriously he isn’t the joker till the very end last scene, that’s when he knew who he was, he didn’t need the suit you could see by how he acted and was no longer Arthur.
@Alex M Joaquin phoenix is an legendary actor respect goes to phoenix. but todd phillips is just chasing money he used the name of the film as joker which will turn the film into a blockbuster. joaquins make up design looks like the clown marvellous mervo from blood harvest which was portrayed by legendary tiny tim. joaquins character also looks like pennywise and ronald macdonald, the original jokers are like heath ledgers jack nickholson and cesar romeros joker without red paint on nose. joaquins character has a red nose which is something you see in clown movies such as blood harvest 1987. this movie should have called clown instead of joker.
Exactly. there can be no comparison between them. Phoenix's Joker comes from an origin standpoint, realizing and embracing himself as the Joker and what he's capable of.. while Ledger's is a more evolved character of the Joker, one that has mastered that nature and pushing things to its limits in other to accomplish his purpose. If anything Phoenix's version complements Ledger's Joker. I like how the two of them played a real grounded version of the character.
They're two different moments in Joker's life. While I don't see Arthur becoming Ledger's Joker in the future, one has to remember he's a sane human being until about half of the movie. Ledger's Joker has probably lived for years in his own maniacal way and is therefore a more complete Joker and less fleshed out Arthur, if that's his real name in the Dark Knight trilogy.
Ah this movie gave me chills and goosebumps it made me feel cold and unnerved and God knows I haven't felt like this after a movie in a really long time
Phoenix’s Joker has two laughs. His laugh when he’s stressed out and his laugh when he’s trying to fit in with society. You’ll notice he only does that high pitch laugh in situations where he’s forcing himself to fit in.
He has 3 laughs . His laugh when he stresses out (his condition), the fake laugh when hes tryin to fit in with society, and his last laugh at the Arkham asylum, which is his true laugh, as he's played his final joke
Both actors did an incredible job. But for me Joaquin Phoenix made me fall in love with his portrayal. I love Heath Ledger's portrayal, but I couldn't watch it over and over. The Joaquin Phoenix portrayal I could spend an entire three day weekend watching on replay. I can't get enough of his descent into becoming Joker. It's both heartbreaking and enthralling. Best ever and should be no Joker ll.
Bullshit, Joaquin's joker is shit. This is not a joker that is enemy of batman. Heath Ledger is still the best. A rip off of taxi driver and king of comedy.
New Act Studios only thing about that is that Phoenix’s joker takes place in the 80’s and ledger’s is in the 2000’s. Also I think there’s too much evidence of ledger’s joker being some type of veteran or special forces with his knowledge of military weapons, interrogation tactics and his ability to always be one step ahead and in control of the situation.
THANK YOU I was just saying the same thing!!! (@ original comment) l feel like Phoenix was loosely inspired by ledgers Joker. Bcuz yea, he all clean and put together at first(Phoenix) , but as time trinkles on and the makeup smears and he gets a bit older then you have(ledger).
D.C.DAREALEST so I’m gonna use ur comment to explain my theory. Someone already mentioned there is a 20 yr difference between old Joker and new Joker. So we will just assume that the new Joker is mostly true. So now yu seen how maniacal he became after fully embracing Joker. 20 years is a long time to teach yourself new things and develop other skills like interrogation control skills or weapons training. Not to mention buddy always had henchman
Gilbert Cobos right, I’m glad they didn’t try to go after a previous style of Joker, every time they let an actor have the freedom to show us their version of Joker we get magic
True! No need to compare both since they have different versions. Heath Joker is a criminal mastermind with dark humor while Joaquin's joker is a complete schizophrenic clown killer. But one thing is for sure both actor are great and it would be nice if Joaquin wins an oscar for his joker portrayal. That would be win win for both jokers
Yeah, that the Oscars are a joke! The fact that the Academy keeps overlooking Marvel is a fucking disgrace! Black Panther SHOULD have won Best Picture! EVERYONE knows that!
Ur kinda wrong not gonna be rude but here's why ur wrong, (According to the movie) Ledger's Joker, so he was a kid with his mother and his drunk dad, one night his dad was drunk and he was in a bad mood and he had a knife in his hand and put a scar in his mother's face and when joker AKA I don't know his real name walk to downstairs to see what is happening and his dad told him "Why your so serious" and make him a smile around his face and that's why he always laugh.
The Heath Ledgers last line is “ you know madness is like gravity, all it takes is one little push “. And I personally think joker (2019) is perfectly based on this quote....
Not really. It wasn’t a little push that could take anyone into madness. The 2019 movie went out of its way to paint Arthur’s life as the most miserable, lonely life one could have. Basically psychologically profiling the type of person who could become the joker. It’s weak
Exactly. And this is why I'm begging for a sequel, I got so engage in this movie that when he goes full Joker I just wanted more, didn't wanted the movie to end. I hope it sells so well they can actually convince Phoenix to do a sequel.
@@UnratedGamerpr I think sometimes we just have to appreciate the film by itself and not obsess over possible sequels. I'm not sure how it would work anyway.
@imCozie You do know the difference between batman, the dark knight, and arkham knight, right? The argument was who was the better joker. It's all a matter of opinion. I personally liked Jack Nicholson as the joker but he wasn't the best. Joker has NOTHING TO DO WITH BATMAN. So why mention him in a joker comment? Not tryna be rude. Just askin
@imCozie Lol the Nolan movie isn't realistic. A bunch of shit that happen in that movie would never happen in real life. It might have had a bit of realism to it but lets not get carried away here.
Just by being compared to Heath Ledger's joker and actually having a chance is enough to be proud of. Congratulations Joaquin Phoenix, that oscar was well deserved
Thats so true....we never thought in a million years there ever gonna be an actor who can be considered worth comparing with our heath....heath was always considered the best of the best(that he always was)and yet Joaquin did manage to fucking stand side by side wid him
@@jpogs6976 i agree...haha,ig i did go overboard while writing that comment...its just that i find it annoying that a lot of fans of heath just love him bc of the hype that dark knight had at the time and not for his acting...and heath didn't get a solo movie like pheonix,so i dont think we should compare them. Annyway we all know heath was GOAT..its just that pheonix managed to pull off the role of joker(whose standards were set so high by heath).I just love da guy so much man..rn he is the best(or one of the best) we have for an actor
Heath - No fancy, Serious violence jokes, He literally treat Batman as a dog lmao. Phoenix - Depressed, Goodguy, The victim. they both great, just different script.
Ledger was Iconic as Joker thats the reason why he won oscar for the role! But before phoenix did u for once think that people would be comparing someone with ledger? Thats why phoenix is great!
Joseph Mauricio Flores maybe not. Joaquin’s played the character from zero and every scene was about him so his role was harder than Ledger not to mention Phoenix as an actor is better too
I mean we all know no one can compete with Ledger's Joker. But damn did Phoenix come close in my opinion. That whole scene with him on the late show will go down as one of my favorite movie scenes of all time. Twas absolutely perfect.
@@seacucumber6768 "hey I really enjoy this movie and sympathize with a guy who tries to make the best of his profession but people keep shitting on him just because of things he can't help" *talks shit about Jared Leto's Joker, a role he had no control over in a movie that was overall garbage and poorly directed in the first place*
Lãng khách cô hành You sound stupid afk the movie joker was tons time better then the TDK. But u can’t compare jokers bcs they had different scripts, one was a criminal mastermind with a mental illness and the new one is a mental ill loner who got exposed to fucked up society and THAT made him a criminal. If I’d to say with one had a better performance than its not even close and pheonix absolutely had far better performance with a much harder and controversial script :)
