A deeper analysis confirms this is a very strong starting glyph despite the tooltip error mentioned below: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tnMPu68cv3o.html Hello everyone, thanks to some thorough testing by RocketCat, it appears that the multiplication of elemental damage rolls on gear shown at 2:25 may be a tooltip error. This means that +dmg rolls on gear for cold / lightning / fire may still just be additive like everything else in this damage category [Non-Physical Dmg + Cold Dmg], instead of multiplied and then added as the tooltip suggests [Non-Physical Dmg + (Cold Dmg * Non-Physical Dmg)]. More testing may need to be done to confirm this but RocketCat's experiment was very thorough and well documented, and for now I am convinced this is indeed a tooltip error and the bonus is additive like everything else, not multiplied then added. This means this start will not be quite as crazy powerful as I imagined, but could still be a very strong start for Sorcerer. My next video will compare this start (using this newfound information) to other meta paragon board priorities to understand how they stack up. I very much appreciate the feedback from everyone on these videos - together we will learn to build the most powerful sorcerers! Link to the experiment from RocketCat: docs.google.com/document/d/1raFSYYfMYZ-ULXFsbGg5HUfm-qOHrRIYnKNpdL8HTKc/edit?pli=1
Not done with the video yet, but I want to applaud the quality of your explanation and demonstration of the math. No overjoyed bullshit. No "trust me, I'm right" either. Just straight facts, and easy to follow demonstrations. Brilliant. And I hope you do this on other topics as well. There's a lot of math happening in this game, and the descriptions can be misleading or at the least confusing. Thank you!
@@brokankle2618 I will be making a video after I get my last glyph to 21 and then do some rigorous testing of the game mechanics. I don't make click bait.
I don’t care what anyone says hands down this glyph upped my damage by over 10K the only input I have is it’s not intellect it’s intelligence but I’m just being picky lol great video and I’ll be checking out your other ones.
So me and some people did some tests and it seems this appears to be just incorrect tooltip information. If you take Frostburn as an example, if you do testing it actually increase damage as intended and stacking non phys doesn't do multiplicative dmg inside the additive damage bucket.
This glyph is kind of “ok” as the start but when you are using core skill then there are 6 better glyphs to use than this one for late game. Quite contradictary to “best glyph for sorc” You have access to 6 different glyphs that not only doing the upper part additive dmg but also multiplicative when activated. Flamefeeder- 1,1x Control - 1,44x Elementalist 1,157x Destruction - 1,1x Tactician - 1,1x Exploit - 1,1x
@4:00 I'm fairly certain your assessment is dead wrong here. You would be correct if it was multiplying the value of those nodes by the stated percentage. Thankfully this is not the case. Instead they stack additively, increasing the base value of those rare nodes making them immensely valuable. This makes a tremendous difference for some classes like Barbarian as their first board gives them +physical damage and resistance.
Intersting, I have 0 gear pieces with elemental damage because it seemed to be pretty bad. Now everything is different and every single stat has to be tested if it gets multiplied by the paragon version.
It's very interesting - from what I can tell, the only 2 stats that behave like this are "All Damage" and "Non-Physical Damage", and they are separate. The only way you can get "All Damage" increase is from ranks in Glass Cannon in your skill tree, and the only way you can get "Non-Physical Damage" is from your paragon board. The All Damage only multiplies rolls on gear specified as "Damage", and the Non-Physical Damage only multiplies rolls on gear for the three elements (Cold Damage / Fire Damage / Lightning Damage). No other stats that I've tested so far seem to behave this way.
Isn't Elementalist Glyph comparable to Enchanter, if not superior? That is, unless the % non-phy damage is less per level on Elementalist but they look identical, with Elementalist giving even more damage with its additional bonus per element. Usual Ice Shards Tele--> Nova will activate all 3 elemental 5% bonuses.
At max rank Elementalist gives a 75% increase to the nodes within range. There is a total of +35% non-physical damage on the nodes within range. 75% of 35% is 26.25%, so that would give you a total of 61.25% non-physical damage vs Enchanter glyph fully ranked which would give 6.5% non-physical per 5 int, so with 70 int in range, 6.5 x 14 = 91%, so you will get 30% more total non-physical running Enchanter. If you're running a build that can have a high uptime on the Elementalist bonus like you're talking about, then it might make sense because that bonus is multiplied by the whole damage equation.
@@Zikorik Thanks for finalizing the max bonuses, I only had Elementalist at level 21 at the time but I did notice the differences. One was based on int you purchesed and one was based on non phys. Enchanter did come out on top just on that alone but had a secondary bonus that did nothing for damage. So it all kinda balances out. At the very least, you have 10% bec of the FB enchant and with the tele combo, that's when it spikes to 15%.
I'm sure you know, but the secondary bonus on glyphs are a multiplier like on the control glyph. Without investing in specifically cold damage on your gear, i think the control glyph might be a slightly better option in first slot. More so if you use raiment for extra cc
Have you considered that some glyphs, with their secondary bonus effect give another damage bracket, such as Elementalist, which in totality makes it a better multiplier? and this glyph locks your itemization to choose +cold damage when there are better affixes and multipliers out there.
The most Elementalist will give you is a 72% increase to the non-physical nodes already there. There is a total of 35% in non-physical dmg available between the rare node and 3 magic nodes by this glyph. A 72% increase of 35% is only 25.2%, making it much less effective than the 87.63% increase the Enchanter glyph will give when maxed. Even with the additional effect, which requires 3 different schools to be cast to be operational, is still only 40.2% on sometimes vs 87.63% on all the time. Also this glyph is specifically for non-physical dmg, it has nothing to do with cold, so it will work with any build. The increase to cold is shown to demonstrate that whatever elemental dmg you build on your gear (be it cold, lightning, or fire) will be multiplied by your non-physical dmg multiplier before it is added, making non-physical dmg an incredibly valuable stat to max out
@@Zikorik Thank you for the reply. You made me go into testing and bringing out my calculator. These are my numbers. Assumption 1) taking 40 Int on glyph radius just to get the additional bonus, and moving on to better nodes and glyphs down the line 2) Using the meta Ice Shard build that deals all 3 elements, using firebolt enchantment for fire and teleport for lightning When I equip Elementalist glyph : Cold damage on my character profile : 166.4%, with the secondary buff, at 15% 166.4x1.15 = 191.36% When I equip Enchanter glyph: 192.4 on my character profile, which is only a 1 % gain from elementalist There are some underlying assumptions to your recommendation. 1. Maxing out the Int nodes in the first board, which you had 70 2. Having + Cold dmg on equipment to make the glyph better If these assumptions are in your character, go ahead and socket Enchanter, but I would recommend removing the points to max out Int, and use them to progress to more boards, where u can get better rare nodes and more glyph nodes. Final point, real world testing, on mobs, not much difference in my Ice shards numbers, which tally with my math. If your character only does 1 element, yes Enchanter would be better. Once again thanks for theory crafting with me.
@@Zikorikleveraging on this post, does it mean I could effectively get more dmg if I use elementalist in the starting board n use enchanter in a max int board, say static surge to maximise dmg?
@cheehuing2254 yes for sure that is a great thought. There will be value later to diversifying to cover the vuln and crit parts of the damage equation which I will cover in my next video
you mean just cus both elements scale? I've been messing around with enhanced fireball for the explosion and enhanced firebolt for the burn and I gotta say the fireball explosions seem to do a lot more total dmg than the burn even with rank 5 firebolt
If I'm going for a blizzard spikes build I should go for critical damage then right? Non physical doesn't do it for me? So I should go more into dexterity and some glyph for dex?
My most recent video explains the damage equation more in depth - I believe for aspects damage like ice spikes, it basically replaces your weapon/skill damage in the damage equation, so it will still get multiplied by the non-physical bonus from the Enchanter glyph. If you already have a lot of bonuses stacked in this damage modifier group, then it may make more sense to go for something else - keep in mind tho the crit glyph only scales crit dmg with core skill so it wouldn't scale your blizzard damage or your ice spike crits The first part of this explains the damage equation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tnMPu68cv3o.html
@@Zikorik yes that makes sense. Non-physical high will multiply with skill damage so get me a high number - assuming ice spikes are weapon/skill. Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Thank you. Great work. Great detail. I have one question, is Arc Lash melee? Is Arc Lash considered physical damage? I’ve messed with these quite a bit and they don’t seem to make damage differences with non-physical. I’m very confused with all this. All my used glyphs are at level 15. I have a level 98 Arc Lash / Ball Lightning hybrid build. So I have the entire Paragon board and points available for the perfect build, but can’t seem to figure out the best damage. Any ideas about if Arc Lash is considered Physical Damage? It’s kind of a grey area.. or am I over thinking it?
Arc Lash should be considered a lightning spell, which will scale with non-physical, even though it is technically a melee attack. The main thing that's different than other spells is that it will always count as the "Close" modifier, which is considered anything within melee range. As far as I can tell, Sorcerer has no physical damage, so +non-physical will affect everything we have. Consider trying a final setup something like in this link, except replace the Icefall board in the middle with Static Surge if you have a stun focus to get some of the stun bonuses with the Legendary node. This gives you the non-physical board and glyph (Enchanter / Enchanter) , the vulnerability board and glyph (Frigid Fate / Exploit) , and the crit board and glyph (Destruction / Frigid) , which are all in different parts of the damage equation and so get multiplied against eachother. All of these will really help support the Bonuses from the Static Surge board in the middle. Hope this helps!
i can feel my damage is very consistent now with this non physical dmg, and its easier to add more dmg as this setup serve as solid base to stack another elemental dmg..👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Man, i stash the FrostBurn in the chest, thinking what a trash it is, and use a +4 Ice Shards gloves. After your explanations, and then doing some calculation, the +4 Ice Shards is no where as powerful as the FrostBurn +15 Cold damage (multiplicative). Keep up the good work man.
Keep in mind this multiplication bonus may be a tooltip error shown by the study someone did on this video (that they still didn't fix with the recent patch which is ridiculous, my sorc shows +735% cold dmg right now). It looks like you watched the meta analysis too tho which I made to make sure this is still a powerful option even without that non-physical multiplier thing happening, which it is. Knowing this, I think Rank 4 Ice Shards may still be worth building for certain builds, but Frostburn are just honestly nuts gloves if you are running frost with all the base stat rolls combined with the extra freeze effect it's hard to beat, I used them 100% with my chain shatter build that I just posted. This is the study link: docs.google.com/document/d/1raFSYYfMYZ-ULXFsbGg5HUfm-qOHrRIYnKNpdL8HTKc/edit?pli=1
When you mouse over the glyph when it's socketed it shows the total damage it's giving - that's the same total as what is shown distributed amongst the individual surrounding glyphs that are scaling the glyphs bonus. So for the Enchanter Glyph, since at level 15 it gives 5% non-physical damage per +5 intelligence within it's range, each individual int node will show +5% non-physical when you mouse over to show how much it's contributing to the glyph bonus. The two rare nodes both show an extra +10% non-physical on them because they have +10 int as a secondary stat, so it's showing the bonus it's giving the glyph. If you level your Enchanter rune to 15 and socket it here and scoop up all the surround int (70 total) yours will look just like this.
Hi. I am currently at level 57 Sorcerer and I have just refunded all my nodes because I noticed that a lot of players did not put the blue text "magic glyph" on the first step paragon board. Instead they unlocked the glyph socket and inserted the rare glyph which they have farmed from nightmare dungeons. Is this correct? So as of now, don't put anything on the glyph socket and wait for the rare glyphs?
Sorry for the slow response homie I think something like this will be close to an optimized final setup, with the 3rd board in the middle being the main board for whatever spec/element you are running (so Icefall for me as frost). This gives three boards and glyphs (Enchanter/Enchanter, Exploit/Frigid Fate, & Destruction/Searing Heat) that boost different parts of the damage equation, so they will all get multiplied by eachother and thus boost the power of your main build board in the middle: d4builds.gg/builds/35dcd314-acb6-42ca-a6ad-24667721ba50/
Great Video can't believe you get 70 percent damage increase to cold! can I refund my level ups to my glyphs? Keep up the good work on the paragon board.
Unfortunately don't think you can refund the glyph xp, just gotta kill more nightmare demons for more xp! Hopefully they will all be useful at some point for some type of build so any you've leveled may be useful again at some point
Yes this node is mainly acquired for the additional +10 int secondary stat on it which will give us another 10% non-phys from this glyph at lvl 15, and then progress up on that side to avoid the STR node on the other side
ty ty rocketcarts did a very solid job with this testing and I am convinced the tooltips are incorrect - I will pin a comment with this link with their permission
Your prob the 2nd person I know that understand that your crit dmg will be based off of you non phys dmg!! This board has me pushing nm96 at lvl78 lol!
@@jjhhandk3974 you just have no idea. I have zero boards for protection and fully vested in damage. I only use 4 boards heavily vested into 3 and a quick grab into 2 close areas, which means I’m lit picking up all rare and all intel on 3 boards. When I was at 78 I have all 835 to 840 gear rolled with cold, crit,vul, lucky, mana CR, mana reg, the reason why it’s hard for you to grasp is your damage is so low, my time to kill is so quick and my skills come back almost as soon as I use them. The quicker you kill the less damage you take. Do I die yes I do a lot! Do I play in really good groups with a strong grasp on the game, yes. I’m open minded and try anything once. That usually leads to better play, here’s a hint. Cut down on your boards, leave the legendary ones alone and then invest heavy into your prime aspect! Farm with higher ppl and tell the group what your lookin for! Gl negative boy. Lol
