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BEWARE: Monster Integral 

Michael Penn
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7 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 83   
@rain_deer
@rain_deer Год назад
That's a spooky place to stop.
@KeithKessler
@KeithKessler Год назад
nice.
@NotoriousSRG
@NotoriousSRG Год назад
Well done
@5alpha23
@5alpha23 Год назад
Underrated comment. XD I thought it was a very satisfying result.
@bsmith6276
@bsmith6276 Год назад
This is my favorite kind of monster integral. Everything you need to solve it would be things taught in a high school AP Calc class, or taught in a college freshman semester of Calc 2. But this integral is far more intricate than anything you would see in a textbook and needs to be processed through multiple layers of manipulation, including non-obvious substitutions you would not likely see in an average elementary Calc class.
@yanceyward3689
@yanceyward3689 Год назад
The kind of integral you will spend a week on trying different things until you get lucky.
@failsmichael2542
@failsmichael2542 Год назад
@@yanceyward3689 And that’s week of wasted time.
@bobbwc7011
@bobbwc7011 Год назад
This kind of integral will keep you busy for a month, and even Carl Friedrich Gauß will probably need 1 hour and 1/2.
@nuranichandra2177
@nuranichandra2177 9 месяцев назад
There is no way one would think of such grave manipulation of the given integrand in an exam situation.
@names9769
@names9769 Год назад
He really woke up one day and decided to write the funniest descriptions.
@MichaelPennMath
@MichaelPennMath Год назад
No no, that's me. I decided that the videos will have wild descriptions cuz it's fun! -Stephanie MP Editor
@lexinwonderland5741
@lexinwonderland5741 Год назад
@@MichaelPennMath You're doing great, Stephanie! I love seeing Dr. Penn get a team to further the channel, it's hard to believe it used to be just him and his chalkboard. You guys have been rocking it lately!
@journeymantraveller3338
@journeymantraveller3338 Год назад
@@MichaelPennMath Thanks for catching those corrections! Keeps the cognitive flow undistracted.
@technoviking
@technoviking Год назад
You can also do this as a contour integral using a quarter circle. Taking care to account for a sign change due to the branch cuts, we get the contour integral, as the radius of the circle -> oo and the paths around the branch cuts approach the branch cuts, has value 2*I + 2i*I, where I is the value of our original integral. But by the Cauchy residue theorem and noting the residue at 1/sqrt(2)+i/sqrt(2) is 1/8-i/8, this is 2*pi*i*(1/8-i/8) = pi/4 + i*pi/4. It follows I = pi/8.
@him21016
@him21016 Год назад
That’s a very nice way to do it with complex analysis. There are other ways but yours is the simplest I think
@eugeneimbangyorteza
@eugeneimbangyorteza Год назад
I did the exact same thing lol
@toadjiang7626
@toadjiang7626 9 месяцев назад
Just saw this video, and I was totally blown away by how easy this integral is once I let x^2 = tan(t), and this whole thing turned into a nice beta function (√2/16)*int_(0 to pi/2) 2*(sin(2t))^(1/2) (cos(2t))^(-1/2) d(2t) = (√2/16)*B(3/4, 1/4) = pi/8. It only took like 2 minutes.
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr Год назад
It turns out you can do this with a single substitution: u=sqrt(1-x^4)/x. (Hard to think of or motivate, but then so were the substitutions that Michael used!) It is then routine to check that the original integral is equal to the integral of 1/(u^4+4) from u=0 to infinity, and it is a challenging but classic partial fractions problems to show this equals pi/8.
@nevoitzhak2092
@nevoitzhak2092 Год назад
At 16:30 it should be 1/16 times that ln thing cause you mult and div by 2 Doesn't change the answer tho
@user-hp2dr5qc8p
@user-hp2dr5qc8p 7 месяцев назад
Ah yes, the classic "seamlessly computing a monster integral yet failing to do basic arithmetic operations".
@yoscot629
@yoscot629 Год назад
disintegration of parts
@user-mp7bt5bw5l
@user-mp7bt5bw5l 8 месяцев назад
u can solve it also with the substitution: u=sqrt(tanx) , this will lead to the integral of sqrt(tanx) from 0 to pi/2 which we already know how to solve this integral.
@mohammadabdulla8601
@mohammadabdulla8601 Год назад
Imagine having such a question in an exam ! Nice problem 👍
@digxx
@digxx Год назад
Let f(x)=x^2/((1+x^4)*sqrt(1-x^4)) and Int(f(x),x=0..1)=I. It is then not difficult to check that the complex valued integral Int(f(x),x=-infinity+i0..infinity+i0)=2I. In fact you can close the complex integral in the upper half plane since f(R)*R goes to zero in absolute terms as R->infinity. The resulting closed contour integral encloses a pole at x=e^{i*Pi/4} and at x=e^{i*3Pi/4}. Furthermore it encloses a cut from x=i to x=i*infinity. Picking up the residues gives a value of Pi/2 and the closed contour can be written as encircling solely the line (i,i*infinity) counterclockwise plus the Pi/2. Rotating this contour clockwise by 90° with the substitution x=i*u (picking up the phases for the square-root und substituting u=1/t), it is found 2I=Pi/2-2I which gives I=Pi/8.
@krisbrandenberger544
@krisbrandenberger544 Год назад
@ 14:05 The last term of the second factor of t^4+4 should be +2 and not +t.
@ANTONIOMARTINEZ-zz4sp
@ANTONIOMARTINEZ-zz4sp Год назад
Michael uses the Sophie Germain's identity, but he makes a little mistake when he writes it on the blackboard. Anyway, thank you very much for such an awesome exercise.
@CTJ2619
@CTJ2619 11 месяцев назад
I love these gnarly integrals !
@jamiewalker329
@jamiewalker329 Год назад
The subtitution made, is equivalent to substituting x = sort(cos theta), and then using a t = tan(1/2 theta) substitution after.
@cameronspalding9792
@cameronspalding9792 Год назад
@17:35 where it says 1/4, I think it should be 1/16
@manucitomx
@manucitomx Год назад
Wow Thank you, professor
@deabru
@deabru Год назад
Again, I love when I learn something new about maths. Those substitutions feel like hacking.
@goodplacetostop2973
@goodplacetostop2973 Год назад
19:15
@humbledb4jesus
@humbledb4jesus Год назад
if it was truly a gnarly integral, the video would be 35 minutes long and you'd already have the boards filled with pre-requisite identities that you have to prove first... plus there would be a smattering of phi's, tree (3) exponents, and congruences equal to 5 (mod pi)
@pojuantsalo3475
@pojuantsalo3475 Год назад
The reward of calculating this monster integral is 1/8 of a pie.
@MichaelPennMath
@MichaelPennMath Год назад
Yes. But if you watch it again, then you get another 1/8th of a pie and so on. So if you watch it 8 times, you'll have a full pie. -Stephanie MP Editor
@sitobubble5697
@sitobubble5697 Год назад
Well done, it's one of the most beautiful integrations I've seen in my life.
@gustavludwig9719
@gustavludwig9719 Год назад
If I have this integral problem in a test,I will skip it without even 1 second hesitation🤣
@MichaelMaths_
@MichaelMaths_ Год назад
An amazing elementary method of evaluation! I would have rewritten it as a hypergeometric function and simplified using its special relations, but that feels more like cheating.
@MrFtriana
@MrFtriana Год назад
I don't think that you are cheating by using hypergeometric functions; in fact it could be awesome do this "elementary" integral using more sophisticated methods.
@kkanden
@kkanden Год назад
i missed some good old crazy integration video! :D
@RAG981
@RAG981 Год назад
Well done! Like it.
@egillandersson1780
@egillandersson1780 Год назад
Impressive ! Very impressive but ... how the hell can you find these two substitution from scratch ?
@5alpha23
@5alpha23 Год назад
He explains the first one: take a part and see what the derivative is, then construct a 1 out of it by multiplying it with it's inverse. Half of what you have multiplied in automatically substitutes to du. Nice method - I wonder if that strategy has an unofficial name. XD The second one is more straight-forward, you get a feeling for these after solving a couple similar ones. :)
@appybane8481
@appybane8481 Год назад
I guess he start with Integral of t^2/(1+t^4) and use substitution to make it monster Integral
@frijoless22
@frijoless22 Год назад
I got so scared when you wrote 1/4 instead of 1/16 in the end after all that work but it ended up canceling to 0 anyways.
@5alpha23
@5alpha23 Год назад
This was the perfect closure to my work week - calculus just has an unmatched natural beauty to me.
@sharpnova2
@sharpnova2 Год назад
that integration bounds fix was smooth as fuck.
@zachbills8112
@zachbills8112 Год назад
Once we got to the rational function inside the integral contour integration seems like it would be a lifesaver.
@Alphabet576
@Alphabet576 Год назад
the crazy thing is this solution means that this indefinite integral is actually doable, it becomes 1/16*log(4x^2/(1-x^4)-4sqrt(x^2/(1-x^4))+2)-1/16*log(4x^2/(1-x^4)+4sqrt(x^2/(1-x^4))+2)-1/8*arctan(1-2sqrt(x^2/(1-x^4)))+1/8*arctan(1+2sqrt(x^2/(1-x^4))) EDIT: it can also be expressed more compactly as 1/8*(artanh(2x*sqrt(1-x^4)/(x^4-2x^2-1))-arctan(2x*sqrt(1-x^4)/(x^4+2x^2-1))), though getting the right value for the definite integral from this involves choosing the correct branches of the multi-valued inverse trig/hyper functions
@chrissch.9254
@chrissch.9254 Год назад
I wonder who has the idea for crazy substitutions like these ones… :-)
@WilliamWolber
@WilliamWolber Год назад
Call me pedantic, but maybe you could have said a few words about the singularity in the integrand at x=1? I played with this briefly in my Computer Algebra System (Scientific Workplace, now sadly defunct), but not enough. It appears that if you expand the integral as an infinite series you may be getting one of those weird counterexamples to the necessity of Leibnitz' Alternating Series Test. (Don't bet the farm, though, I was not able to work out the pattern in the time that I invested. I suspect things would become clearer by changing the variable to (1 - x). ) Really appreciate your work!
@user-en5vj6vr2u
@user-en5vj6vr2u Год назад
Hold on, the coefficient of the logs at the end should be 1/16 not 1/4, but ig it doesn’t change the answer
@n0mad385
@n0mad385 Год назад
Something my Calc II professor would have put on an exam
@5alpha23
@5alpha23 Год назад
ugh, sounds like fun...
@holyshit922
@holyshit922 Год назад
It is possible to calculate indefinite integral with substitution sqrt(1-x^4) = ux
Год назад
isnt there a mistake? he workt out that 1-x²= 2/(u+1) but actually he needed x²-1 wich ist -2/(u+1) for the hole process it doesnt matter because it gets squared so the negative cancel out 14:00
@samwalko
@samwalko Год назад
I think in the main part (right side of the board) it was supposed to be (1-x^2)^2, which would be more consistent with the rest of it. But either way it clearly doesn't affect the result.
@ranaranino4731
@ranaranino4731 Месяц назад
Too long solution, can be destroyed by just substitution x=sqrt(tan(x/2))
@flavioxy
@flavioxy Год назад
a dance with the devil
@General12th
@General12th Год назад
Hi Dr. Penn!
@EngMorvan
@EngMorvan Год назад
The bounds of integration automatically changing at 12:03. 😅
@MichaelPennMath
@MichaelPennMath Год назад
I could have sworn I had put an info box there to point it it'd be fixed. My bad. To be fair, the change is to correct an error. -Stephanie MP Editor
@kevin326520
@kevin326520 Год назад
It's at 10:57 . Also, if you want to know more minor mistakes, 1/4 at 16:30 should be 1/16, but it doesn't matter at the end.
@aayushtripathi5705
@aayushtripathi5705 Год назад
I would suggest using x^2=tan@
@user-wp1uw8fv6y
@user-wp1uw8fv6y Год назад
While watching video, I've found another but similar way to solve the integral. I = ∫[0, 1] (x^2 dx /{(1+x^4)sqrt(1-x^4)}) First, divide numerator & denominator by x^2 → ∫[0, 1] (1 /{(1/x^2 + x^2)sqrt(1/x^2 - x^2)})dx/x Next, let "x^2=y, dx/x=dy/2y" to reduce order of x → ∫[0, 1] (1 /{(1/y + y)sqrt(1/y - y)})dy/2y = ∫[0, 1] ((1/y^2 +1)dy /{2(1/y + y)^2 sqrt(1/y - y)}) Let "1/y - y=z, -(1/y^2 +1)dy=dz" so that "(1/y + y)^2=z^2+4" → ∫[∞, 0] (-dz /{2(z^2+4) sqrt(z)}) = ∫[0, ∞] (dz /{2(z^2+4) sqrt(z)}) Then let "z=u^2, dz/(2sqrt(z))=du" to rationalize the integrand → ∫[0, ∞] (du /(u^4+4)) By evaluating the last term, we get I=π/8.
@holyshit922
@holyshit922 Год назад
This was my first idea but I didnt see that x^2=y substitution
@yurydavydov8264
@yurydavydov8264 Год назад
At some point the lower bound of the integral got switched from 1 to 0. Am I missing something, or that’s a typo?
@samwalko
@samwalko Год назад
At 12:03, he points out that 1-1/1 is 0, so that's the correct thing to do when switching from u to (the second iteration of) x.
@yurydavydov8264
@yurydavydov8264 Год назад
@@samwalko right, my bad, should not watch those at 1AM 😂
@phat5340
@phat5340 Год назад
Will we ever get a stream were Michael plays cup head?!
@saadbenalla3678
@saadbenalla3678 Год назад
Monster among intemen
@martinrogers1139
@martinrogers1139 Год назад
isnt there a mistake? At 13:35 when he writes t^2, shouldn't it be sqrt of t ? Because x=t^2 in his substitution.
@assassin01620
@assassin01620 Год назад
The substitution is sqrt(x) = t dx = 2t dt Thus sqrt(x) dx = t * 2t dt = 2(t^2) dt
@jamesfortune243
@jamesfortune243 Год назад
The monster is also hirsute! 🙂
@leif_p
@leif_p Год назад
Thumbnail reminds me of {\displaystyle \cup head}.
@peterhall6656
@peterhall6656 Год назад
Michael, I have to say that this video was disappointing in that it struck me as an exercise in vanity mathematics. You present what is a difficult integral and you do a lot of transformations in order to get to the end result but you never make a comment about convergence. There is no hint of any insight. How many of your viewers noticed that you transformed something that blew up at 1 to something that goes to zero at infinity (10:07)? Mathematica does this integral in 0.710641 seconds and gets Pi/8. That in itself interesting because of the way Mathematica does the processing for this type of integral basically using essentially the stuff the blind Jim Slagle did in his PhD thesis at MIT in 1961 under Marvin Minsky. Mathematica also uses the Risch and Ritt algorithms which build on the 18th-19th century works of Laplace, Louiville and Hardy to name but a few. The symbolic processors can do transformations of indefinite integrals and then perform the limits - Slagle’s system allowed for that and contains some specific examples. I think your audience would benefit from a follow up video explaining the convergence issue.
@ShoeboxInAShoebox
@ShoeboxInAShoebox Год назад
Gotta say, really don’t like the newer video titles and thumbnails. Makes each video feel more like clickbait, so I don’t watch them as much. I prefer to see thumbnails relating much more directly to the problem addressed in the video
@miguelcalles4795
@miguelcalles4795 Год назад
Crap that was narly
@olldernew6431
@olldernew6431 Год назад
??????
@puceno
@puceno Год назад
im the 69th comment. nice !
@danielevilone
@danielevilone Год назад
Integration is a simple game, you do huge calculations and in the end π appears.
@AC-tn4it
@AC-tn4it Год назад
I solved this using the property of definite integrals x = ((b-a)-x) and then making u = x^2, rest is trivial
@sharpnova2
@sharpnova2 Год назад
where did that factorization of t^4 + 4 come from? is there some more general principle involved that enables one to factor stuff of the form a^4 + b^2 (a^2)^2 + b^2 = (a^2 + bi)(a^2 - bi).. no good a^n + b^n, for odd n, factors to (b)(a^(n-1) - a^(n-2)b +..-..+.. - ab^(n-2) + b^(n-1)) which is why if this were something like t^6 + 8, i could see rewriting it as (t^2)^3 + 2^3 and factoring it that way no way to write t^4 + 4 as a sum of odd powers (t^2)^2 + 2^2 = (t^2 + 2i)(t^2 - 2i).... is no good. completing the square somehow and getting (t^2 + sqrt(4t^2))(t^2 - sqrt(4t^2)) doesn't foil out properly.. without +2 to each binomial so i guess a^4 + b^2 = (a^2 + b + sqrt(4a^2))(a^2 + b - sqrt(4a^2)) which gives the (t^2 + 2t + 2)(t^2 + 2t - 2) that was used in the video but that would mean you can always factor a sum of squares this way so a^2 + b^2 is actually (a + b + sqrt(2ab))(a + b - sqrt(2ab)) = (a + bi)(a - bi) so only useful if 2ab is a square so we can do this for any a^(2m) + b^(2n) where 2(a^m)(b^n) is a perfect square which seems to work best when a or b is 2. but will probably work in a lot of other cases. is there a name for this?
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