Norman, the world needs you now more than ever, never forget. We need you, you are a true hero for justice, every word is saying something, you give meaning to words. It is story tellers and truth tellers like you that will live forever. Your soul will live on forever. nobody can truly touch people like you do.
Other than you two beautiful people, and the Palestinian voices you bring to light, Norman and Daniel, two of my other favorite people in the world right now. Thank you.
Excellent show! I always search out Prof Finkelstein's interviews and this one did not disappoint. I've also found Daniel to be sharp and insightful, and think he did a great job moderating (esp balancing the importance of giving Prof Finkelstein the space to fully convey his extensive knowledge while guiding/redirecting the conversation when necessary). Well worth the 2 hours 👍
Daniel, would love to see/hear more from you in these settings. Great conversation- insightful analysis. You are absolutely correct about Norman’s micro analysis, which I appreciate, yet many find it tedious to listen to.
i love listening to prof finkelstein’s reasoning and anecdotes. mr maté’s direction and participation is also first rate. the topic of social darwinism needs careful analysis in the case of both the cherokee and the palestinian. maybe it could lead to another consideration of darwinism itself. thanks again to the organisers and participants
Respect and enjoy listening to both Daniel and Norman converse. I especially appreciate Daniel’s sensitivity in being able to direct Norman to stay on point.
This has been a soothing and interesting conversation to listen to. Integrity is one of the most admirable and important qualities there ever was. I’m always especially thrilled to hear what Mr Finkelstein has to share. He amongst a few others shine such an uplifting bright light in such dark times. Thank you to both Mr Finkelstein and Mr Maté.
This entire conversation was flowing and educational for me. The flexibility of both learned men felt in rhythm to me. Deepest gratitudes. I hope to hear this again soon and study parts intently.
Daniel’s interpretation of ‘From the river to the sea’, in its current form is very much the manner in which I interpret it. Norman is correct to point out its ambiguity, however. Ambiguous statements leave contestable space for bad faith interpretations and misrepresentations. So, whilst I may personally be comfortable with the phrase in the context of Daniel’s interpretation, others may not have the relevant contextual information or may simply lack the discernment enabling them to interpret it the same way, which - inadvertently or otherwise - invites entropy. What an amazing conversation. Thank you all for providing space and facilitating these rich, open, genuine discussions and calling for truth, equity and peace for our fellow beings🫶
I like what Norman said about Settler Colonialism. That it’s a slogan of people that would like to right the wrongs of the past or would like if migration didn’t take place in the past at the cost of some other population. In many cases colonialism was a government somewhere forcing a minority people to leave their land and they arrived as refugees in a foreign land. I acknowledge many atrocities occurred.
The wheat is being threshed and the chaff shall blow away in the wind.leaving.only those of value and integrity. Norm is a kernel, precious and upright, a singularly upright and unique jew.
I have watched every talk, almost all 'live' and this is the only one that I left after trying for half an hour to listen to two men who were full of themselves. The only one where my heart was not warmed in some deep way or my knowledge of the situation expanded. I'm trying to be kind about Daniel, but it is hard to do so about someone so aggressive and bullying, while at the same unable to rein in the learned professor who wanted to tell us everything he knows. Very disappointing! Fortunately, as I said, all the rest of the talks have been wonderful, and I am very grateful to Zaya and Mauricio for creating this immersive experience. It has changed me deeply, in many ways.
I have enjoyed, learned, been inspired by every conversation to date. However, as I listened to this one (6/24 conversation,) I felt the need to express the following - that our esteemed facilitator, Daniel Mate, increasingly did not hold space, became a poor listener/facilitator, so much so that it was quite noticeable even in his body language and energy. About halfway into the conversation, he slipped into being more of a debater, who interrupted the speaker, with his urge to insert his commentary, as well as his differing stance and opinions. Don't get me wrong - I respect and want to hear Daniel’s voice and thoughts. Yet, given his role as facilitator of this conversation, he sadly slipped out of sitting as Presence. It made the conversation less impactful, and for me, it became an agitating conversation to listen to - not for the informational content, but for the loss of an open, empathic space that Zaya/Maurizio/SAND always so beautifully embody. It's not lost on me the irony that I am making my own commentary! Yet I would like to share my disappointment about the facilitation and space-holding aspect of this conversation, and hope that it will be received with openness and examination. P.S. I can agree with Daniel's premise to Yannis the questioner, that Yannis was "wrong" re: the Ceasefire Now slogan, and Daniel's argument was well put worth. But at 1:43:00, for Daniel to say that Yannis was "online too much" was rather passive aggressive, IMO. I am taken aback that an esteemed guest and "facilitator" would say that, regardless of what Yannis was putting into the chat, which I could not see. That to me is not in line with open, respectful discourse. I can't imagine Zaya or Maurizio or Ashira making such a comment to any questioner.
@rosannasun99 as to Daniel Mate's alleged being "passive aggressive" not being in line with open, respectful discourse (he just felt to "openly and not passive-aggressively" put this Yanis back in his place; whether you liked the way he did it or not or whether would have done it differently is another question - however, don't get me wrong, I deeply respect Zaya and Maurizio and I'm very thankful for their film and all these conversations - but to suggest Zaya or Maurizio wouldn't never make such a "passive aggressive" comment like Daniel Maté did to any questioner is a bit condescending because there's another accompanying conversation to the film where Zaya and Maurizio just shtummed up a questioner by muting her voice, while the woman was in an emotional turmoil and still kept on talking - just, we didn't hear anything anymore, we only saw her lips move... Although, there were reasons why to shtum this questioner up, I found it a bit "harsh and very direct" at the least, and much worse than allegedly being "passive aggressive" as you insinuate Daniel Maté to be.
This talk is part of a 21 conversation offered together with our film whereolivetreesweep.com/ . When you register for the film you get access to the talks.
I also feel uncomfortable with slogans. At a rally in Sydney, chants of ‘down with Israel’ and ‘down with USA’ did not sit well with me as for some it would be a call to violence.
I wish Norm would let you speak more Daniel. I love him mostly but I totally disagree with him on the phrase or concept of settler colonialism. He hasn't given us a definition of exactly what it is if it's not this which it is. I'm not sure why he's resisting that concept because it's not a slogan, it's a status. I also think from the river to the sea is more in terms of where you've defined it and also people don't want someone, even though it's Norm, telling them what their chant should sound like. I may wish that there were tweaks so that we could be moving forward more unified and strong against Zionism. There are a lot of people waiting to help but sometimes these phrases freak them out. They would otherwise be 100% allies so I see validity on both sides of this. I'm writing this while listening, So perhaps Norm will inform me further but I also think there's a generational gap happening here.
todo interesante discusión necesaria. Solo apesta terriblemente esa historia de que los judios son superiores...un análisis simplemente simplista y discordante
This talk is part of a 21 conversation offered together with our film whereolivetreesweep.com/ . When you register for the film you get access to the talks.
@@kappa9gamma You can sign again end enter $0 as a donation so you have 48 hrs again. sorry, it's a clunky system but was teh best we could think of when we set it up. My apologies... alternative will be to buy the 21 talks plus extras but that is not needed if you register again.
Herzl, Weizmann, Jabotinsky, Ben Gurion, Nordau, Prinz called Zionism "Jewish colonial project in Palestine" and the colonizers "colonizers" and "settlers". There was nothing wrong with colonialism and ethnic cleansing of "savages" back then. Only when it became non-kosher, they quickly changed the terminology. But first, there was no contradiction for them between colonization and creation of a national home for an artificially created nation with an artificially created language. Because, as Chaim Weizmann said, "here is a fundamental qualitative difference between Jew and Arab" and Churchill continued with his doctrine that a dog in manger has no right to the manger, but the owner has. Settler-colonialism was an official definition of the Zionist project in times when settler-colonialism was cool. Until Nuremberg.
It is a joy to listen to Norman. I did not understand though what he would use other than "settler colonialism"? Ilan Pappé calls Israel a "settler colonial project", right?
Yes he did. So does noam chomsky and rashid khalidi and plenty of others. I don't agree with settler colonialism being reduced to a leftist slogan at all and hearing him say that was really confusing and bizarre to me. I was trying to understand his point out of sincere curiousity and i couldnt, but im going to continue to think about it. I've read Patrick Wolfe; Lorenzo Veracini also wrote books, among others. Veracini argued that settler colonialism was opposite of classic colonialism, ive heard others say it might as well just be another variant of colonialism. I'd also point out Patrick Wolfe was concerned israel was going to become genocidal back in 2006 based upon its settler colonial nature. "Since settler colonialism is an indicator [of genocide], it follows that we should monitor situations in which settler colonialism intensifies or in which societies that are not yet, or not fully, settler-colonial take on more of its characteristics. Israel's progressive dispensing with its reliance on Palestinian labour would seem to present an ominous case in point." Wolfe wrote settler colonialism and the elimination of the native 18 years ago, so to chalk up settler colonialism as merely a new meaningless slogan that has arisen to represent the leftist shit of the day doesn't land for me.
Thank you for organizing the sessions. Daniel and Professor Frankenstein are as brilliant as expected and more. Thank you for being the voices of the oppressed.
These interviews were filmed as part of a 21 days program accompanying the film. The full 21 interviews and extras are available on our website whereolivetreesweep.com/conversations/
The way Mr. Finkelstein referred to the Ugandan official with whom he disagreed as a "creature" was extremely offensive. I too disagree with the position she took, as do many others, but that doesn't make her something less than human.
I totally agree with you. This choice of words surprised me too. In my opinion, Norman Finkelstein was not in a good shape today, he was visibly tired and unfocused, his answers were far too long, too complicated, too rambling, he even seemed to lose the thread. All in all, it wasn't a good talk, as we are used to from him, and even Daniel was starting to get impatient. The thing is, the last 9 months have been very stressful for him, he is almost 72, he desperately needs a break, even if it is the wrong time. Otherwise there is a risk that he will collapse in front of the camera. I thought that several times today... 😢
@@SabaMalik-v8p I am well aware of that, but somehow he didn't find it necessary to refer to anyone else he mentioned as a "creature". In addition to using the word, the energy that accompanied it was very condescending and his tone dehumanizing.
You must think that you are an alien 👽 and not a creature of planet earth 🌍. 😂. Norman is amazing in his perspective and you can learn a lot from him. He is a treasure to humanity.
@@Sam-rf4qb I am sure I can learn a lot from him. My first impression however was not good. Just as you have a right to admire him I have a right to not be impressed with his choice of words.
These interviews were filmed as part of a 21 days program accompanying the film. The full 21 interviews and extras are available on our website whereolivetreesweep.com/conversations/
