BHVR... say sike right now... | Dead by Daylight 

When i'm in a "change a thing nobody asked for" competition and my opponent is bhvr

We've heard your complaints. As a result, we've decided to remove the plague's power completely.

Wraith using power: a light, blowing whisper Plague activating power: METAL CHURNING TWISTED MACHINE BUZZ

BHVR: We can't make stunning nurse take away her power. Also BHVR: On plague.

For a brief moment in the intro I was fearing they had removed the pallet stun taking her power and got scared.

otz, without you I'd be dead by daylight

I mean, this isn't the first time they called a random change a bug. Back when they released the killer stun patch, they said it was a bug that you had to time the pallet drop or flashlight save when a pickup was happening; that it was always intended to count at any point during the animation. BHVR seems to like using the term "bug fix" as a way to change things on a whim.

Same as the black bubble Kindred/Bitter Murmur aura change. Showed auras for 6 years. One day, they declared that was a bug, and that was that.

I don't believe that BHVR didn't realize this there's no way, has to be a miscommunication

This is also weird because they have been actively moving away from the design of certain perks affecting certain killers. Like how, before this patch, Freddy's dreamworld was actively countered by Adrenaline. So now Plague is actively countered by Blast Mine and DS? Two stun perks, but not the base mechanics of flashlight saves or wiggling out. Incredibly bizarre choice on Behavior's part.

The devs are amazing at: 1. Not playing their own game. 2. Making random changes on a whim.

They did sneak nerf when they made it so you loose PWYF stacks when using vile purge. They didn't announce it in any patchnotes. They also raised the volume of her prayers, they used to be quiter when she first released. They didn't mention that either. Idk what's going on with shadow nerfs for pure Plague :(

Love how i picked up Plague right before this patch, and Deceisive started being more prominent again.

THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS! I tried breaking the news to BHVR as soon as I discovered it a few months ago. As a 2k hour Plague enthusiast, this change was quite bizarre alongside her receiving much more bugs. Plague received ANOTHER silent nerf last patch as she fired less projectiles with vile purge than previous. There was issues with her cooldown animations being horribly misaligned and her animations didn't work for awhile. IDK why they decided to nerf stock instead of the seal as that addon alone fundamentally breaks her kit. It's kinda heartbreaking (btw Love you and the work you do for our community!)

grats on 1 million you wonderful man. love how good you are at being both analytical and fun at the same time

I find this change furstrating because of the situations you can't prepare for, such as Blast Mine. If you go to kick a gen and randomly discover that the survivors had that perk, your one default fountain has now become useless.

My biggest theory is that most of the old developers have left behaviour over the years, or the ones that are still in, have gone up the corporate ladder. We now have a whole new dev team that's been ironing out the years of bugs and inconsistencies, including this plague change. This would also explain some of the wacky bugs we've been seeing since this new generation of devs are trying to unravel half a decade of coding, shaping it into their own image. Fingers crossed that this change gets reverted because, as Otz gracefully said, makes no sense.

Ah man, this change is SICKENING

If you played TF2; Do you remember when they removed bullet penetration for the Righteous Bison? The patch notes claimed it was a bug, and needed to be patched out. But in the loading screen, the tips menu talks about this as if it's intended. That was a meme in the TF2 community for a while. This reminds me of that. Really weird change.

"it was always intended to be like that" i think this can be translated to " we somewhat fucked up something....again..., and due to spaghetti code, that thing will stay as it is."

I wonder if this has anything to do with the move to UE5? Like they literally couldn't fix this bug for the past five years without it breaking spirit or knight again somehow. Or maybe they just noticed it as they were playtesting the plague after moving her code over? So strange. Maybe we can convince them Nurse not loosing her charges on a stun is a bug too!

We are listening, based on feedback the Pig maximum movement speed has been changed to 4.0 m/s.

This reminds of a similar time in tf2 where a weapon called the righteous bison was added to the game, a laser gun that could pierce through enemies. Then roughly 5 years later, they removed the pierce effect claiming that it was a bug despite being part of the gun ever since it got introduced to the game and the gun became a neutered version of itself and it wasn't even that good to start with. The change was reverted a year later but somehow it's still not the same gun it used to be before the pierce got removed, it deals less damage than it's original version and this was never fixed to this day.

The bug part is the most amazing part. It honestly reminds me of how most newer killers have anti-camp baked into their power. Meanwhile (correct me if this has been changed), hag can have traps set at a hook and they remain, OR set new traps nearby the hook. Sure, "just crouch" was always an option (and is maybe a bit stronger now), but boy does that kind of thing still bother me.

Sounds like a Blast Mine buff :^)

Hi otz, this is friends!

Thing is I remember getting Plague out of her power with Head on on release. It was in the game, just like stunning zombies with head on and destroying them (which also got fixed this patch) Both were in the game, but because Head On isn't as popular, it wasn't fixed until now

From what I remember blast mine stun already worked like this ever since the perk got released or at least when it got nerfed, I remember at some point last year I put up a blast mine on a gen and it was a game against plague, once she kicked it she lost her corrupt purge

It's very satisfying to see Otz at 1 million subs. Congratulations, Otz!

I mean, plague did come out the same chapter as Jane. And since Head On is Jane's perk, it COULD be plausible that they meant for it to interact with the plague as a form of in chapter counter.

It is very simple really. Either the direction trust a bad balancing team OR the direction doesn't always trust a good balancing team and forces illogical changes, OR no one really understands how to balance this game. There's no 4th option, it's been too many of the weirdest occurences, it cannot be an accident. Love your work @notOtzdarva, may your sanity overcome the recurrent circus.

I can't remember the other time but I swear this is the second time they nerfed something claiming it's old situation was a "bug" that they somehow ignored for multiple years before changing. Oh I remember now, it was the camera getting locked down when hitting a survivor on some of the killers.

"We hear you! We made a mistake, and as reconciliation, we will be setting the record straight by nerfing Pig."

Absolutely comes off as spaghetti code issues at first. Maybe they misunderstood in the bug report that you meant *every* stun outside of just pallets. I’m not sure if it’s reviewed by a person or automated. Hope this gets reverted soon because it’s just so bizarre and if they’re willing to say somethin like this was always intended, I hate to know what else they’d be willing to change and just say it was always supposed to behave that way

I am a Singularity main, and noticed that he got nerfed. Previously when his Biopods got emp’d, he would get a sound notification that some of all cameras got emp’d. But now there is no sound notification, and sometimes I even don’t know my cam was broken for like 20-30 seconds and some survivor nearly did a gen while I didn’t even know this. It’s now way harder to play as Singularity, especially on bigger maps. It’s a very influential change on this killer

Honestly I think it’s a balence change cuz like let be real most plague respect pallets when they have corrupt purge which will be really hard to counter so having a few other counters would be nice

We at BHVR hear you, and have unanimously decided to nerf trapper and buff blight add-ons

Ah yes, a classic BHVR moment.

I started playing DBD in 2020. I assumed DS and Head on stuns would knock her out of her power, b/c her description says, "...loses power when stunned..." No specifying only pallet stuns. I also feel like I remember seeing a video from Monto and Puppers(RIP) and they head on her out of her power very early on, but it's been way too long of this not being the case that no one felt this a bug

another change that doesnt appear in any patch note was that hunting time from the skull merchant doesnt give you the speed boost when you break a pallet using an m2 like nemesis, demo , buba really awfull for an already unusefull perk

Wow I did not realise this playing plague I got so confused when I kept losing my power 😭😭

I actually do think they just never bothered fixing this bug. It always seemed a bit odd that decisive would not end her power but the pallet stun *while recovering from the DS stun* would. But it's indeed a weird change

the change makes sense in the long run if they say it was always a bug. id imagine theyll look at the numbers and see if a buff is needed but probably wont change her since i dont really think the numbers will adjust all that much

Playing devil's advocate here, I think this change "can" be healthy for consistency's sake. If all stuns are treated equal by various different features, then the game is following a clear set of rules. Corrupt Purge is a very powerful tool, and while I agree that stuns should be a solid counterplay to it, its current on/off behavior when she gets stunned is far weaker when stuns that don't come from pallets can also trigger it. Beyond that, wiggles and blinding rescues are still breaking these established rules, and should really be included in the list here. Additionally, if stuns are meant to counter strong powers, then they should have a similar impact on other killers that have much more free access to said powers. Blight, Nurse, and Wesker all have simple, multi-charge dashes that can quickly close any gaps created by a stun; Xenomorph and Oni have their own enhanced states that are merely inconvenienced by stuns; and I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind. All in all, I would be okay with this Plague change *IF* they treated the rest of the mechanic with due care. But they didn't, and this change on its own sucks.

did they really expect us to believe it was a 5 YEAR BUG!

yeah I agree on it not affecting higher skilled killers that much. I think the main affront is definitely blast mine removing the power. head on, DS, sure, but blast mine is especially hard to predict where it'll be. you shouldn't be punished with losing your power on top of taking a long stun when you pause to hit a gen.

Ok, hands down i thought that it was like that already 😅🙈 I really feared blastmine and head on when i played her. Seems i can keep that 😅 Sidenote - i just started to learn plague, round about 10 matches so far. Not a beginner (6k h, 2/3 surv) but new to her. And yeah, the whispering is definitely too loud. I'm used to play spirit, its so confusing i can't really hear footsteps 🙈

don't worry Otz, this is most definitely unintentional and will be fixed in 4 to 6 months

if they are going to implement changes like this, it should apply to all high level killers that “charge” an M2 power.

To be fair, I am not very surprised about DS change, I mean plague can be very strong at camping / tunneling someone out of the game fast since you can keep a whole team injured or double m2 in some scenarios But I agree with the "why plague and not nurse or blight" Mistigated about Head on, I find this change kinda incoherent with bhvr explaining that perks interacting with killer powers mostly create impossible to balance scenarios like 2 weeks ago And I mean, if someone enter into a locker before you can grab them, you're put in a loose loose situation, similar to twins, when you can't grab nor take the stun, this is so weird And for blast mine, I just don't get it, there's no way to know if you can kick a gen or not so nobody will take the risk, especially with pain res, thanatophobia or any options that alows you to avoid kicking gens Since Blast Mine makes you loose around 10 seconds with the stun blind and the double kicking animation, I just don't get why this is a thing Anyways, thx for the video, I had no idea about that, strange that this is not written in the mid chapter patch

What is up with game companies just making the worst decisions possible lately? BSG and tarkov, BHVR and DBD, Bethesda and Fallout 4. Its crazy right now.

Bro. BHVR is out of their mind

I feel like the "Is this another situation where BHVR... Accidentally miscommunicates?" is a bit of a euphemism.

So we thought that Plague was bugged, but it turns out that that "bug" was just BHVR fixing her so she works as intended. She was bugged since her release, and its being fixed after FIVE years. Five . . . Years. If that ain't the most BHVR shit, idk what is.

So usually back then or even now survivors often have/had perks that counter there respective killer's power or perks like Wake up vs Remember me or Flashbang vs Nemesis's RE zombies. Basically Jane being the survivor in plague's DLC she'll have head on to disable plague's power but I'm guessing they just decided not to add it last second and completely forgot about it until now.. Hopefully that makes sense

Wow, didn't expect you to make this little story into a video. Thank you for bringing attention to the matter, means a lot! *First of all, I noticed this issue on the day of 7.6.0 release, BEFORE the new game engine. A lot of people seem to try an connect this change to current patch, it is not.* While I'm at it, I'd like to clarify one thing: at least for me, the most baffling thing isnt the change itself - after all, if something is a bug, it needs to be fixed, whether I like it or not. What really struck a nerve here was that *the change was done in complete silence. Why, BHVR?* With so many bugs in the game, wouldn't it be cool to tell your community that you finally fixed an issued that plagued a character for years? *And would we ever find out if nobody reported that as a bug?* The real problem isn't the change, but rather the total lack of communication about it.

I think it's a whole lot weirder that one stun stops a killer's power, but others don't, and I'm perfectly fine that BHVR is streamlining mechanics. With that said, I'd rather have Plague loose a small amount of duration (like 10% or something), rather than the whole things goes.

I really think that the loud sounds of plagues power are intended so she cant hear and instead has to rely on sight because of the strength of red puke, maybe they give her the deafened status from hag ear add-on??? I think if you can win mindgames too consistently with red puke itll be even stronger

Reminds me when they shadow nerfed the FOV for killers and it gave me the worst headaches ever! Just for them to change it back a little while ago....

I can see the line of thought behind this. Why would a pallet stub taking you out of power but not any other stuns that kind of make sense

It makes sense that they wanted her like that - Jane who came out with Plague has Head on to stop her using her power. But its similar with Blight, althought devs said that hug tech is a not intended bug, but this one was done in silence lol

I really love the plague love there kit and there perks, all of them, and i may only have like 10 hours on them but in those 10 hours i pulled an all nigher from dusk till dawn the MOMENT I got the plague and got from the lowest rank whatever that is now to the highest rank (Red rank 1) in 8 hours, with a couple of short brakes. i lost (1 kill or less to me anyways) twice and tied (2 kills) once. I was on a Killing spree with like a 30 4 kill win streak the first loss was my second game on plague and the tie was my third i ended the binge when i experienced my second lost after getting Rank 1. I know i haven't played since before the anomaly? was released but they were so fun to play it was probably the most Serious I've taken a game in years an absolute blast and i didn't even realize i had been playing for 8 hours until I had closed the game and my recording software had captured it all. Edit: realized i didn't even talk about the video. I think this is a good change but they should have absolutely talked with their player base about it. Also forgot to mention that my first 10 games were trapper, Which also mostly went well, and i played a couple games of pyramid head all my favorite killers.

the gameplay in this video is so good

maybe they want to push the change into the direction of stuns temporarily disabling powers. it is a highly requested feature, from survivors

Otz theres also annoying bugs like being stuck in pallets with trapper, victor jump being weird when theres pallets

Sorry for bad English. It reminded me ashe from ow 2. Devs made her get ult when already ulted(she spawns robot which do damage). It was in 2019 - 20 year. They said it was bug when she couldn't get ult. A couple of months ago they deleted this thing from ashe and said it was bug when her did get ult.

Some noob developer was probably planning to head on a plague trying to get rid of her power, then he popped out and after the stun plague shot red goop on him and downed him resulting in raging and an immediate fix.

Head On literally came with her chapter and we’re supposed to believe they just didn’t notice? Ok Bro

Pro tip u can see if theres a mine on a gen, there will be a flashbang sitting on the top of the gen '

If they could buff one thing about her I wish it was her blood point gain.Even when I run distressing for extra bp i never fill up the devious category even half way.

I feel like this wouldn't be such a problem if they A: put it in the patch notes B: explain the reasoning C: didnt call the last five years a "bug"

I'd bet that due to the engine change some good ol' spaghetti code is making this happen. Just because they have not mentioned it in the log or notes.

I agree with your points how it's a 5 year-long "bug" and it wasn't mentioned at all in any patch notes. It's just really weird, out-of-the-blue, and even has the potential to harm newer players. However, I watched a video that addressed change a while back and the content creator said that they like it because it prevents the already very strong tunneling capabilities of Plague.

This honestly seems like a great change. i never even use the top tier vomit. I think they should do something similar to Michael with his tier 3.

I'm a fellow Plaguer myself, actually XD

I think the bigger issue is godpallets with flashlights. Good survivors will now be able to, depending on walls, take your power with little counterplay.

Just on my Dbd break, uninstalled a few week ago because skill expression was lowered and games became more stressful than fun, with all the rubber banding issues and background under pallet exploits. I am much happier playing a more enjoyable experience than facing the same load out day in day out. I know these are just words on a screen but your influence means Alot, keep up the good work.

I honestly fw headon working, I dont mind giving a lower tier high risk/reward exhaustion perk more value/buffs

I'm not personally a big plague fan (i dont dislike her. she's just not for me) But this is ridiculous.

*survivors use map offering* Otz: "let's lock in a little bit" God i love this man's attitude HELL YEAH!!!

i do understand where you're coming from, but i think it makes sense about every stun removing her power, though as for other killers as you said, about blight and nurse, that their power doesn't get removed after a stun, that's because the power recharges really fast, and you can rush, or blink again, as for the plague, she has another layer in her power. which is different.

As Otz said this would only affect new players, so maybe they could add a brown add-on that lets you keep your power after being stunned by something other than a pallet. (Not sure if he suggested this later in the video)

I am shocked that the Xenomorph never had the stun remove his runner mode. That makes more sense than this Plague change. Especially since Xeno gets runner mode passively. Seems way more OP than Plague.

DS stun disabling killer powers is rocket science, too complicated, the way the quantum waves propagate, anybody below 600 IQ just wouldn't understand. And we don't want to have perks that especially counter specific characters, so we are moving away from perk design that singles out one character. But this is fine, in fact we meant to do it 5 years ago and just forgot 😀

I find the way you handled the Sheva body block pretty interesting. Personally, I would have instantly fully charged the vomit and body blocked the window, fully infect them with the one vomit, than instantly down them. I usually stack the 0.4 and 0.25 cooldown addons, or maybe use the green charge up addon. Typically when I play plague, I completely ruin altruism like that by having the healthy survivor fully infected and downed within a few seconds and letting the infected keep running as I instantly hook the body blocker. I don't rely on corrupt fountains as much as I rely on taking advantage of mistakes and catching a healthy surv in the open where I can fully infect and swing them down almost out of the anim so they can't interact with any map objects.

I've been hoping for this change for years now. I forget where but it was well established by the devs that this bug existed but it isn't new news that it was a bug. Now it's weird that it took so long to correct, but it really doesn't mean they should've left this bug in like by that logic they should've kept hug tech in for blight.

They shoulda fixed them noisy ass whispers instead 😭😭😭

To be fair, I don’t think this change matter all that much? The only scenario that could regularly happen is a pallet stun, which is totally avoidable. I almost never kick gens as plague to be honest, I rely on thanatophobia ruin and pain res for the regression and just focus on infecting and making survivors so slow they’re forced to give me power or lose. I can understand being mad about a nerd like this, but honestly plague might have needed some slight counterplay like this.

I've been playing this game since release, and to this day, Plague was the only killer I had no prior knowledge of before playing her myself. I still remember to this day that the worst jumpscare I have ever gotten out of any video game was the one the one I got when I heard that loud ass power chime effect.

I like how they give utility to less prominent perks like blast mine and head on but doing it to just plague feels bad Maybe I'm just bad but I can't see a reason to run blast mine or head on in my solo games unless I'm doing some funky build but if these two perks had as much impact in the game against every killer like it is against plague I would use it a lot more

2:10 I hear what you're saying, but counterargument: This change (even though the devs might have unintentionally made it) makes it *easier* for everyone to understand Plague's power. "You can stun the Plague out of her red puke" Player: ok that's a really cool counterplay, I just hit her with my fun niche perk, Head On "ooooooh SORRY that's the Wrong Kind of Stun so it doesn't count" Player: ??? Why the heck do some stuns work while other stuns don't? (Since flashlight stuns don't have this effect, there will still be some of that conundrum in the game anyway)

I like the change honestly. Plague can be really overwhelming in solo q and this change both nerfs her a little and buffs otherwise relatively bad perks

Blastmine should have a much shorter active time on a gen, but give blindness or something It was basically uncounterable before, and now it specifically targets a single killer

one of the devs got downed by the corrupt purge immediately after DS stun and got frustrated so they "fixed" it

At this point i'm not surprised. It's BHVR, Nerfing killers is their daily job.

Hopefully less people playing this boring ass killer now.

I have a bug that I've observed, otz or anyone who reads this. I was the invocation weaving spiders perk and once complete I was broken, however, none of the genes had the regression on it. I'm on PS5 and the killer had ruin. I have no clue what happened but I think it had something to do with ruin

Its seems like it could be the issue of simple code refactoring. They just made it so all type of stuns obey same rules and have same consequences

I hate plague so this is fine

I have a theory about ad ons. Now maybe I’m wrong about this but I think ad ons increase the chance of getting stronger teams and swfs. I’ve played multiple matches without ad ons and had chill matches with little to no pressure against me but, when I played matches with ad ons I got put up against very strong teams, I play on mobile but, this might also apply in core dbd. I would like to see someone try this theory.