Bi-Generation: Did It Work? (It's Complicated) 

What does being a dick have to do with any of this?

Agreed. They were terribly written in ADDITION to being a woke mess that pandered to the mentally ill among us.

"Criticize"? When did that happen?

​@@TheDude1764 Hire a therapist

Yeah, they were fantastic, don’t get me wrong it had some bad moments, like Donna saying no male doctor could understand letting go the regeneration energy despite 11 giving river regeneration energy for a minor injury that one time, not that she’d know that but it did feel like a unnecessary insult, same with him getting slapped by the mother (Not that this was the only time that happened but still) besides those, it was great, I especially loved the second special on the ship, that was seriously cool, and really reminded me of the weeping angels and things I love in doctor who, they were all great, and the 14th Doctor’s ending was fantastic

That 70 years was occupied with him having to keep close guard over the vault (as well as foiling the odd invasion like in Dr Mysterio). And then that tenure at St Luke’s ended in a tragedy that almost drove the Doctor into giving up and letting death take him for good.

@@EditedAF987 Yes. And no doubt the Fourteenth Doctor will be foiling the odd invasion during his retirement with Donna. And someday surely Donna Noble and her family will die, and the Fourteenth Doctor will have to move on. That’s the curse of being an immortal Time Lord. My point is, this isn’t the first time we’ve seen the Doctor retire somewhere for a while.

@@theweirdofengland oh sorry, I thought you were suggesting that 14 didn’t need to retire, as he’d already done so as 12.

​@@EditedAF987 there was no need for 14 to retire. RTD wanted him to, that's why, ther eis no other reason.

24 years is just a blink of an eye to the doctor though not a break. 70 years is better but I think it has to be at least 100 years for the doctor because if his long lifespan.

It’s weird because she knows what regeneration is, she had experienced it before and would know new Doctor is ultimately the same person. Even her reaction to Tennant initially was kind of overplayed. While he wasn’t as clear as he could be, the 9th Doctor warn her what was happening. It wasn’t some new being taking over the Doctor’s body, is was the Doctor transforming to recover from a mortal injury

@@TheJadedJames yeah but she’s a human with emotions and attachments. Not to mention they’re in a middle of a dalek invasion??? Like yeah, she knows the doctor can regenerate, does she want him to though??! No!

@@TheConman761and that’s why I’m glad she was filed away into an alternate earth. She willingly abandoned her boyfriend and didn’t even apologize to him about how he was the prime suspect in her disappearance. And she thinks the Doctor should reciprocated her love? Why? He’s not a human, he had many companions before Rose. Rose is basically a stray the Doctor takes on adventures until they decide to leave. Also why would the Doctor fall in love with her since human relationships are alien to him since the galifrayans reproduce with genetic looms since the sisterhood of Kahrn cursed the species with sterility

River Song though? Rose was more infatuated than in love

​@@tgiacin435 My brother in christ, Tennant was drooling for Rose, do not paint it in any other way. The show goes through great lengths to show they fancy the pants off eachother. There's no way you can convince anyone otherwise, regardless of the expanded lore you have stuffed up ur pants.

This is such an underrated comment

He does this a lot even in wild blue yonder he uses the line "my arms are too long" repeatedly to enforce that it's not the doctor or Donna, he did the same thing with the lines "are you my mummy", "who turned out the lights", "Donna Noble has left the library, Donna Noble has been saved". He also wanted to do it for the waters of mars but decided not to. To me it's kinda tacky and lazy

@@jakewhiston6461 ?? Those lines were from Moffat's episodes

@@jakewhiston6461those “who turned out the lights” and “are you my mummy” were Moffat episodes

This really worries me. I hope this particular trend stays on the specials.

That should’ve been a given since most of the classic who companions left voluntarily. The only companions that died were Catarina, Sarah Kingdom and Adric. It was new who and RTD that started the trend of all the companions becoming super special awesome ultra important because apparently you can’t just have a normal person go on adventures in time and space because it would be fun. Oh no, they have to be special

​​@@tgiacin435that's the same issue I have with NuWho and apparently some reports have said the new companion Ruby is going to be another "Special" companion of key importance - rolls eyes

I don’t think Mel has a purpose beyond “Why not cast a former companion as one of the new Unit agents?” I didn’t mind. Speaking of this, did something happen to Osgood while I wasn’t watching? Please tell me Osgood is okay!

@@Mark-nh2hs and I’m sure it’s gonna be universally important. If Rose was the only companion to do it, then it wouldn’t be a problem. But then she had to send the bad wolf message through time because new who has to be like a regular series. And then they did it with Martha, Donna and Clara. I’ll give Chibnall credit, at least 13’s companions were just regular people going on an adventure because it would be fun. I was willing to give RTD a chance if he tried to be more like the classic series but also being experimental and give us more episodes like midnight, but I feel like it’s gonna be more like aliens of London, voyage of the damned or the end of time

Agreed, I think Mel’s presence was an in-episode counterpoint to the Toymaker’s allegations against the Doctor. Also, I hated Moffat’s refusal to give anyone a tragic end, but I really like Davies insisting through the Toymaker that regardless of whatever “but they’re actually okay” ending the companions got, the Doctor essentially upended their lives and brought them to their fates.

Haven't you get the message yet....the Doctor is part of the 🏳️‍🌈 inclusivity crowd. River Song isnt "THIER" type. Get used to it, the Doctor is into men going forward. Thanks to RTD.

A man and a woman!? In a relationship!? In 2023!? Are you NUTS?

@@TheNuclearGeek Oh piss off and keep your persecution fetish to yourself. Representation isn't a zero sum game, you numpties.

@@TheNuclearGeek I get the feeling this is about to go overly smug...

@@thepillowhead2453Ah, sorry, full sarcasm. Though it's sad that it isn't completely obvious, ya know?

all because he has a great "what" reaction

I genuinely hope that R.T.D. will leave it open like this and NEVER bring him back, let this be the "Big Finish Doctor" and let the show move on.

Vanity issues.

Its because he doesn't want to go.

Well we see. He might have a plan ther.....

I thought RTD's comment about Every Doctor being Bi was just a Joke 😮😊😅😂

Yh but it doesn’t make sense because 12’s incarnation already learnt apt of these lessons, I feel RTD is I love with himself and just ignores a lot of important things from other eras…especially moffats

​@@brobro9169 He never healed from losing Gallifrey tho. When Missy lied to 12 that Gallifrey survived, he was furious. Then Heaven Sent and Hell Bent he basically went crazy for Clara THEN Chibs brought Gallifrey back and turned them into Cybermen. They should've made those changes after the 50th when they brought Gallifrey back but they didn't.

I’m sorry, I’m so sorry

@@FullFatVideos can we get this pinned? the comment is just so majestic

@@FullFatVideos why is this a bad thing

well 14 would remember it then wouldnt he, explaining why he didnt get involved

@@joshharrison619 The real question is though with how in this universe time is not a linear line but all happening dynamically at once when would he get those memories? The way I'd interpret it would be that those memories would only be known by future regenerations was as/after a previous one has experienced it.

@@Spooky_Magookyyeah kind of, it’s usually when they meet each other or make contact with each other. Their memories or actions travel in time to the future doctor at that moment, and then when they depart they forget it happened which is the timeline correcting itself

Well yeah, it is a time travel show, but prior to now each incarnation still had an ending in their personal timeline. Each incarnation could show up at any point in history from the point of view of the universe's timeline, but within the Doctor's personal timeline each body had an eventual "death" that they'd inevitably face, be it falling off a tower, getting irradiated, or being shot in a alleyway. What RTD suggested in the commentary will undo that, effectively making every single incarnation immortal, which not only undermines the personal character drama of each regeneration story from the past six decades, but it also trivialises the stakes of every dangerous encounter we've ever seen the Doctor face. The Fifth Doctor no longer made a heroic sacrifice to save Peri, the Eighth Doctor no longer had to forsake his name for to save time itself, the Tenth Doctor never had to go, and so on. Let's all just hope what RTD said in that commentary STAYS in that commentary, and never finds it's way into actual canon.

oo yeah that works!

I thought it was more along the lines of the Doctor can't carry on as they are with so much baggage and guilt etc so the body in a coping mechanism manifests the next body healed or that body from a future point in time where they are healed, but the consequence is that the current body has to stay and do the healing in order for the next body to exist as they always have done, and 2 Doctors being around usually destabilises timelines etc so there's more motivation for current Doctor to get on with healing. And then presumably 14 upon his body feeling it's healed or healed enough will absorb into 15 or get teleported back to the helipad and the timeline corrects itself in that way to make it a conventional regeneration. I love the idea of Timelords being able to as a coping mechanism bring their next body into existence healed while the current one hangs around to fix itself... It really shows off their mastery over time and how they can manipulate it to their will... The Lords of time showing why they are indeed Lords of time.

@@ollyreece4208I like that. And it has echoes of K’anpo having his next regeneration, Cho-je, already hanging around long before he regenerates, and the Watcher being in existence somehow before Four regenerates into Five. Both could easily be examples of literally externalizing trauma, into another body, as part of the regeneration process.

That only last 15 hours.

@@ollyreece4208I don’t care if this ends up being right or wrong, I love this idea and I’m choosing to believe it

I wouldn’t mind it if 14 completed the regeneration after they beat the Celestial Toymaker. But after that just stinks of RTD being too I love with his character to let them leave with dignity. I mean 10 could’ve regenerated into 11 during stolen earth, and skip the David Tennant’s farewell parade of death and more importantly, the end of time

I love how a lot of ppl complained abt moffat trying to shake things up too much in Hell Bent by having the doctor kill but RTD literally has David give out harsh punishment to those aliens in the family of blood and when Moffat gave the doctor new regenerations ppl had problems with it despite the fact it was necessary…but when RTD shakes something up he gets praise by blind fanboys/girls like he can do no wrong even if he did ruin things…

@@brobro9169 the irony is the Doctor has killed especially with a gun at times. The Doctor may try to avoid bloodshed, but will kill if necessary. And trust, I’m no RTD fan boy. I give credit to where they’re due. I love the RTD dalek design, and the midnight entity, but RTD had a lot of stinkers, and yes, Moffat’s writing suffered as the series went on. Series 8 was probably the next strongest series after series 5. But Clara was starting to annoy me more than Rose Tyler. And Rose is probably one of my least favorite companions because of how she treated Mickey. I mean the guy was almost blamed for Rose’s disappearance

In the commentary he very much phrased it like his own headcanon, along with the toymaker having messed with the doctor's timeline allowing for any interpretations and I don't think RTD will move to canonise a single specific one, so I think it's all fine. I also like Tennant just getting to retire rather than just taking a break as it can renew the doctor's energy without being burdened down by past traumas and I think he just deserves a happy ending for once

You do know this regeneration was inclusive...the hint was BI regeneration🏳️‍🌈 that scene was literally the Doctor "coming out" both metaphorically and physically on screen. RTD said in an interview as a child fan he hated the Doctor being a straight white cis-gendered man, as the character didn't reflect his own sexuality and gender confusions at the time. The first time around RTD couldn't make an inclusive Doctor as it was 2005 and everything 🏳️‍🌈 was still about taboo. So this time around he has full control of the direction he may want to take the Doctor in. Therefore hes literally given the role to an ethnic 🏳️‍🌈 person. He wants the show to appeal less to old fans and more to new younger more diverse fans, that may feel as he did growing up. Just get used to the fact, the Doctor is INCLUSIVE from now on, even his pronoun has been changed to "thier" to fit the narrative. Old Doctor gone, new Doctor here to stay as camp as Christmas.

​@@Sam-zu5mr cite your source please

@@onvasean2485 it's the episode commentary on BBC iPlayer

​@@Sam-zu5mr I feel like this has to be bait right xd. Bi means 2 chief. bigeneration = 2 regeneration as in a regeneration into 2 people. How would bigeneration meaning bisexual regeneration make any sense?

You’re hired

But the Doctor needed it, a time off that is not last years with your dying wife (River).

@@jeckjeck3119so that justifies it? No. He could do different stuff or simply ignore her. That's another point tho, what about river now? They're going to ignore the whole thing...

@@MrSolidBlakeGaming More unhealthy coping mechanisms:/ There is no ignoring her, River is one of many emotionally unresolved traumas for Doctor's character. That's one thing RTD tied up pretty well, the doctor is always on the run from it all. Taking an actually healthy healing time away from it all is a sign of maturity.

​@@jeckjeck3119let's face it, RTD just wanted to have a surprise regeneration scene, AND a Happily-Ever-After (until eventually 15th that is), ain't like it'd be the first time RTD made a carbon copy of David Tennant's Doctor. Also let's be honest, the Doctor won't get any actual rest as long as he's on Earth and/or with humans, he'll always spring into action as soon as something happens, he'll never be the bystander type

​@@jeckjeck3119in fact, staying on Earth with Donna's family is probably just gonna add extra burden to the Doctor, since now he has to choose between the responsibility of being part of the family and the responsibility of being the Doctor

Wait what? You just listed two things RTD does well and Moffat does terribly as if having moffat on would help with it. Moffat does okay single story plotlines, but the reason his overarching plotlines are "complex" is cuz they're terrible and messy and he sucks at answering questions he sets up

​@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 I disagree, they're messy to you because you dislike their complexity, I happen to love all of it, meanwhile Russel most certainly does not do the latter well, only the former.

@@lexruptor I don't dislike their complexity. Big fan of complexity in stories. the problem is that moffat doesn't write them complexly to suit the stories, he writes them in a way where he makes it seem like something interesting is GOING to happen eventually, without actually writing those interesting things. We see this in everything he does, from sherlock, to the recent dracula series, to obviously, doctor who. And as far as your claim that Davies doesn't do character depth or evolution well or that moffat does it at all, please just go rewatch literally any Moffat episode and then compare it to any RTD episode. The only character moffat cares about is the doctor, but not in the same way as any other writer has ever cared about him or any titular character of a show. He's not a piece of the puzzle, he is the only person that matters in the entire universe, and not only this, but that in the writing style of moffat, nobody else really does. Oh, sure, the doctor likes to say things like "I've never met a single person who wasn't important," but the writing does nothing to show that. It constantly has characters who die without even a name being given to them onscreen, and the doctor isn't fazed. Could you imagine 10 in ANY of the situations 11 was in? Could you imagine 9? The rage he'd feel at the sheer waste of human life, at his future self for not even caring, at whoever he was facing. Sorry for a long comment, I do genuinely enjoy moffat's seasons, and I'm not gonna attack you or claim that you're wrong for your opinions, or try to strawman you. But to claim that moffat's characterization was better than davies' just sits wrong with me when moffat did such a terrible job at staying true to this character, and especially looking at his characterization and treatment of woman characters on his show. I also think that the way he handled his plotlines was pretty bad, but since your reply specified that you were saying davies does those better than moffat, I'm not gonna bother talking about it too much

Moffat needs to stay away from UK television for the rest of his life. The damage he has done is just shameful

​@@satyasyasatyasya5746Nope, cope harder

Tennant has been pretty adamant in the behind the scenes tik toks stuff for the 60th that his wife has been sharing in the leadup to the specials that he's done though and even said that he won't let himself be used in the way you described "for cheap clicks" and that returning too many times has diminishing returns. So I'm pretty confident that Tennant will, even if he returns for the 70th Anniversary or something, he won't let himself be used for tv clickbait shit. He's aware of that dynamic potentially existing and wants no part of it.

It feels weird to give someone a happy ending after years of their character arc ending.

But that's EXACTLY why it's shit, Tennant sacrificed so much saving the universe and his loved ones, that sacrifice was meaningful and his death was poignant. This was crappy fan fiction that has retroactively ruined his and Donna's great ending.

why does he need 2 happy endings????????????????

Personally I don’t mind the idea of having two doctors, but the way they went about it kind of confuses me. Like therapy in reverses implies Ncuti is a future version of 14 and has his memories. That would make sense in a normal multi Doctor story, but in this instance 14 and Ncuti should be at the exact same point in their timeline. They’ve basically been split in two, how does Tennants 14s actions after the bi generation then effect Ncutis? I guess wibbly wobbly timey whimey stuff. But I personally think it makes more sense thematically, and logically for them two just be two independent versions of the Doctor at the same point. It doesn’t change the story, it makes more sense, and also continues the theming of a fresh start and passing of the baton to this new series

shut up@@TheWolfXCIX

That's the NuWho MO sadly

I mean in the same vein, why do endings have to be sad or goodbyes have to be bittersweet? It doesn't automatically make them more meaningful or somehow deeper, just like happy endings aren't automatically either. Plenty of goodbyes and endings in DW have been sad, bittersweet, heartbreaking. Not all of them have to be.

I don't see your point. You say this as if this show has a chronic "forced happy ending" problem but since 2005, we've probably had more sad and bittersweet goodbyes than otherwise.

But that's what Moffat was doing and Davies called out with the puppet scene. "No, they didn't die, they lived out long and happy lives. They were just tragically ripped away from everything they cared about, but they didn't die." As the Toymaker himself shouts in disgust by the end, "Well that's all right then!"

​@@Mark-nh2hs I feel like the NuWho motto is actually not letting anyone get a happy ending. In that same special the toymaker references the fact that like, 2 people have left the TARDIS voluntarily, while everyone else has suffered some horrible fate

you can literally tell this is true just by the way they both wrote their regenerations. RTD is in more of the "regeneration is death" camp while Moffat is more in the "regeneration is just one of the many changes the doctor experiences throughout their long life" camp. Personally I prefer moffat's by a mile but to each their own.

@@alecbormia4523but 14 literally says “it’s not dying” while regenerating in The Giggle. I don’t think RTD actually views retention as death. The 10th doctor just treated it like that because he was selfish. the scene of 9 regenerating into 10 kind of proves RTD doesn’t really see regeneration as death. Same with 14 into 15.

It’s also advantageous for the Doctor. The Toymaker is a cosmically powerful being, so playing more complex games risks him being able to use his powers and intelligence more freely, giving the Toymaker an advantage. Limiting the Toymaker to a simple game of chance, or a game where he can only use his physical form, keeps things on an even playing field.

Stfu it’s total garbage

I prefer Chris' era to Russell's first, as I felt it was more faithful to what came before, especially with its continuation of the founding fathers plotline from the 1980s, which has been dubbed by some fans as the "Cartnell Masterplan," even though it was actually developed by Marc Platt. I had been waiting for this for some time.

Bye bye Elton. Bye bye.

I think your explanation is more in support of the idea that the doctor is still the same person between regenerations, their consciousness is shared and kept throughout the process even if the body changes shape and form. Superficially each iteration acts differently from each other but I see that more as like with people, reaching a new chapter of your life and being a slightly different you. Cause we all do that, we are constantly in flux as people and our personalities develop and shift but still at core we are the same people to an extent. To me the Doctor is the same in that way, each regeneration is just a different chapter that comes with a different quirk, obsession or interest but it's still the same person, just ever-developing.

A new phone but you've transferred photos and videos from your old phone.

I was more of a Smith Fangirl myself because he was my Doctor...

He played a different version for Timelord Victorious and Dalek Empire. I am really getting sick of the overuse of Tennant!!! Paul Mcgann hasn't had a Series and here Tennant is having a lot of different versions of his Doctor!!!

😂 okay ncuti is crap in the role just like Jodi

@@darthmummy7889 That is just wrong. Ncuti was so impressive out of the gate that he rescued an ending I was otherwise laughing at. That man just straight up is the Doctor.

It's also important to take into consideration Russell straight up lies about future potential plot points just to throw people off his actual twists.

yeah that's pretty much how I see it!

She gets Mickey lmao

As a 3 part story it would be so amazing. And it could easily be done as a 3 parter.

That’s why it doesn’t work. 15 needs to feel like the definitive future

@@FullFatVideos Yeah, but if the show loses more viewers than they need a hail Mary. It's just an "in case of emergency" setup, it's the same thing they did with Clara back when Capaldi's viewership started to dip. It's still a business, Tennant and Smith are definitely my favorite doctors. If they circle back to either of them I'm definitely going to be watching, I stopped mid Capaldi. I'm from the US, and most everybody I know also stopped watching about the same time. Though one of my absolute favorite episodes was with Capaldi when he was trapped in that confession disc thingamajig. Ngl I only found this channel because I was interested in Tennant's return. But I do love your content

I think they did a bad job of explaining it, but they did explain it. The point of the "Bi-Generation is a myth" line is to show this is another side effect of the salt at the edge of the universe thing, another superstition/mythical thing that has now made its way into reality. The new run under RTD is gonna have some more fantastical elements, and they wanted to try to show that more in the specials, and they just were already pushing the runtime of Giggle and had to cut it short before properly explaining, which really hurt it