Bible Professor Savagely Grades My Fringe Hypothesis (feat. Bart Ehrman) 

It takes guts to have a professor like Dr. Ehrman review your work publicly like this, and I will say this is one of my favorite Paulogia videos ever (and I think I have watched every single one). Great job!

I'm an ex-Mormon so Paulogia's notion that just few people having (or claiming) visionary experiences could birth a successful religion has always rang as quite probable to me.

I'm so glad Dr. Ehrman made a point to address the asinine credulity of the people who claim that the existence of eyewitnesses would guarantee that only true claims would survive and circulate. I've never understood how people could say that with a straight face, as if untrue stories, exaggerations, and fabrications don't get spread around even today in the information age.

Just got done watching @AronRa and what do ya know, Paulogia decides to grace me with his presence! It's a good day, good day indeed 🙂

This shows quite a bit of intellectual integrity, Paulogia. Well done!

12:06 Yes! This is what I've been talking about for a while - I don't care how intensely the early apostles believed, that doesn't mean they're correct. There are innumerable people who claim to have experienced things today but we don't believe them. Why should we believe Peter or Paul?

Except for a couple of fringe details that don't impact the central hypothesis at all, one of the world's leading experts believes that Paulogia's hypothesis is entirely plausible. This is significant.

This is great Paul! Bart is amazing and it's great to hear him commenting on your hypothesis. Can't wait to see his debate with Licona.

One thing I adore about Paulogia is that unlike the Christian apologists, he is willing to be wrong.

The part where Bart sounds off about evangelical scholars not knowing the literature on memory is worth clipping and saving for the ages. Basically: Dear evangelicals, your token scholars don’t know what they’re talking about.

I'm glad to know Paul is also a Life of Brian fan! Pure comedy gold.

Paulogia, this was one of the best 'with Bart' videos! You guys did a great job explaining how things could have happened, and the probabilities, given the times and peoples. 👍🥰💖✌

Bart's right abot "Jesus Before the Gospels". It's definitely among his most interesting and - dare I say - damning written works. I've listened through it several times, and would like to do so again if I could find my copy. Its much unlike his other works in that it contains a scholar's survey of the nature of human memory as a backdrop to the ideas presented.

It would be great to see Paul make a follow up video where he incorporates some of Dr Ehrman's feedback and updates his hypothesis regarding the start of Christianity.

I'm very appreciative of your willingness to uphold both sides of an argument in the search for truth. The past few weeks I've spent binging these videos has definitely given me food for thought as I explore my own faith leanings. Keep at it!

I don’t think people, even Dr Ehrman, sufficently examine the enormous incentive Peter and James had to continue the ‘Jesus movement’ and to see it expand. The alternative was to go back to Galilee, have people mock them for their gullibility or worse, and to return to hard manual labour.

Love it, great job as always Paul, and I always appreciate hearing from Dr. Ehrman. The clarifications were interesting and valuable. I'm a former Christian whose family and community just can't accept in their hearts that I'm no longer one, so channels like yours that respectfully address important topics and offer relevant discourse are truly inspiring and helpful in my journey. I've been off the wagon for the better part of a decade now, maybe even a little longer, and it's still a struggle to have conversations about religion or my lack thereof with many people close to me. Anyway, keep up the great work

05:06 "I *think* he [Jesus] decided..." - Appreciate you doing this video. I respect Dr. Ehrman for all the work he has done and have read (parts) of his undergrad textbook and some others of his books. Still, as times goes on I have a growing question about Ehrman, as if he's afraid to face the ultimate hard-core rejection of some his beliefs. The sentence of Ehrman's that I time-stamped is an example. Dr. Ehrman _wants_ to believe certain things about a historical Jesus, but if I'm going to be the persistent skeptic I have to ask that if we are going to reject the miracles of the gospels, which non-Christian historians do, why are we going to accept the _premises_ of the events that are written to explain (by the gospel authors) those miracles?? Critics of the NT have come a long way in two hundred years (since German scholars really started to take apart the miracle stories.) As I write this today, my conclusion is that the gospel (as in the book of Mark and then copied in the books of Matthew and Luke) are more fantasy than anything else. Sure, there are some facts of the day, but the story or stories embedded are clearly intended to make converts (and two the gospels explicitly say that is why they were written.) So Dr. Ehrman can "think" about this or that scene in the gospels and try to rationalize how such a scene _could_ have happened in reality, but I wonder if I had a time machine (and could go back and observe) if I would see anything like what Ehrman thinks happened truly did occur.

Great work. Can't help but pay attention to someone who is willing to put their work to the test in public.

I already got my tickets and am looking forward to it! Also admire how willing you are to put your work through such scrutiny

Amazing episode 👏 ❤️

Wow. This was really good. I appreciate that Paulogia was willing to be told he was wrong by the professor that did actually correct him, a bit, on some things. I still want to know the final grade, though :)

ME: Hey Dr. Ehrman, what you think about the last Spider-Man movie? BH: Well, I wrote a book about that, ...

Very cool. Well done Paul. I vote the debate should be known as "The council of Barcona".

I really loved this video. Not just the contents but also the concept. Downloading Bart’s book on Audible now!

The phrase is "mano a mano", hand to hand. Mano y mano makes the nonsensical hand-and-hand.

I'm one of those who think that a handful of core disciples, like Peter, Mary, and James, made up the resurrection to keep their congregation. I think it became a badge of honor to have seen the risen Jesus, and even a requirement to be considered a "true disciple". So many claimed to have seen Jesus.

I really love this format where you have a respected scholar critique the points of your video.

I don't think Jesus was a real person. I have seen Ehrman argue that Jesus was real, but none of his points holds water (or wine). None.

The Art of Memory by Frances Yates details the Classical Greek technique for memory, which was part of the Classical Greek education, and if you have watched Sherlock, you’ll know it as the memory palace. You construct a memory palace in your mind and then place the things you want to remember in various locations of the palace so you can visualize all of them and recall them at will. It was used by politicians to remember speeches and lawyers to remember their cases. Ancient architecture was often designed specifically to act as a memory palace for Greeks and Romans. The book details how early medieval Christianity tried to destroy any reference to the mnemonic technique by making the forming images in your head a sin. Creating novel and compelling images is the whole point of the mnemonic. It’s a fascinating book which explains how the memory palace was kept alive in secret through the Middle Ages by people like Giordano Bruno (the church burned him at the stake for postulating that the heavens were filled with an infinite number of suns around which an infinite number of planets orbited), and even William Shakespeare, as the globe theatre was purportedly designed to be used as a memory palace. The only surviving partial account of the technique from antiquity is found in Rhetorica ad Herennium by Cicero (though it’s undoubtedly not written by Cicero) which is a book of rhetoric. Instead of a memory palace, the Greeks originally used the constellations of the zodiac as stations to put memories, and not just the monthly constellations but a constellation for every day of the 360 day year of the ancient world. Which is why there are 360 degrees in a circle. The technique was “discovered” by Simonides of Ceos, who stepped out of a banquet to get some fresh air and the temple hosting the banquet collapsed crushing everyone beyond recognition. Simonides was able to walk through the temple banquet in his mind and identify everyone based on his internal picture of the scene before the collapse. The book is not for everyone. It is dense and academic, and expects you to understand passages in Latin and Greek, which when I read it before the internet and google translate was a lot more daunting than today. But it is worthwhile if you are interested in the history, but you will not be instructed how to do the mnemonic, just directed to Rhetorica ad Herennium to read for yourself.

Come on Paul 19:20 needs a "for the Bible tells me so" jingle, how could you miss that?

Great video. Your efforts are appreciated.

This was an excellent critique. It seems that only a few words need changing. The Peter, Paul & Mary reference made me laugh (not an easy thing to do). As far as grading is concerned I’ll give you an A- at worst.

I love the way that it's still miraculous that the religious belief survived, no miracles required, kinda like all things when it comes down to it..

Absolutely brilliant video Paul, I thoroughly enjoyed Bart's analysis of your prior video. The good news being you seem to have passed with flying colours.

This is one of my favorite Paulogia videos and watching it critiqued and largely endorsed by the great Bart Ehrman made for an excellent lunch break view!!

This is an excellent format. Loved this. Thanks. (I do, however, feel like a shuttle cock being knocked back and forth between Ehrman and Carrier.)

Off topic, and I’ve said before, but I love Paulogia shows the Blood and Thunder prophet (played by Terry Gilliam) and even used a drawing in his video. It’s one of my favorite scenes from Life of Brian. Now, if you’ll excuse me…I need to go find my hammer which I had just placed it somewhere the night before.

The whole crucifixion and resurrection plot, makes no strategic sense at all, both from Roman perspective and from a God that wants to show-off his power in conquering (at least his own) death. From the Roman side, if they'd have feared that the disciples (not a band of viking mercenaries) could steal the body, then do not take it down, do not give the body to a conspirator, do not let conspirators to prepare the body for burial, do not let them hide the body in a hole where you cannot see it! Rather, put some spikes around and let it rot on the cross for a month! From the "divine revelation" perspective, you do not want the most significant magical event in history, to be witnessed by cold hard stones! You too would want witnesses, you could even have used the Emperor (before the edict of Thessalonica), inviting him to the front row, to be the first convert after you raise! ...Instead, it is all concealed and mysterious, just like every other concocted supernatural claim.

Damn Paulagia! You did great! Congrats. 😁

Bart is a Bible Scholar, NOT a historian! He is qualified to discuss the contents of the Bible, not historical facts!

hey- hey didn't give a grade!!!!

I've always given Mr Ens an A+. Bart might be my favorite professor of all time. Why don't we edit your video "How Christianity Probably Began" and create another iteration which future entities can be teased about. Will the videos have date stamps so future watchers can know which came first? Who was this Bart Irmin, some itinerant professor who taught the children of rich people about God? Who was this Paul Ens, aka Paulogia, who got his ideas from Star Wars? I hope in two thousand years people will look back and wonder who the Jesus was that Paul and Bart were talking about.l

Excellent work, Paul, thank you for this.

That's a debate I would watch - two reasonable, respectful people who are experts in their field using actual scholarly evidence to support their ideas. No feelings as evidence, no gish galloping, just two people who have come to different conclusions based on the same evidence.

My favorite content creator on RU-vid + my favorite former christian New Testament expert = another great video.

Speaking of what is/isn’t plausible, I don’t see any of those first few minutes regarding J coming to Jerusalem, what he saw, how he felt, what he did at all plausible. In ~30 yrs he’s never before encountered money changing hands at church? This big temple visit was somehow shocking to him, being raised in the faith and seeing it every day (though perhaps on a smaller scale)? And then he “causes a ruckus”. How big would this ruckus need to have been to arouse the ire of the higher ups? Sure nothing short of “shutting down” the temple would be sufficient? The church brass certainly has come across malcontents any number of times. I’m just not hearing any reason that J or his experiences should have been unique or special or noteworthy, to the degree that he should be singled out. It seems far more likely that this is a story of decades of corruption resulting in a saviour myth being written down, years and decades after some minor seed event, like the crucifixion of one insignificant player

I would love to see him critique other videos of yours.

I really enjoy the historical aspects of religion. And Dr. Bart is so fun and engaging! 🥰

So, what was the grade? A? B+? Saying, "You did well," isn't cutting it.

Regarding Saul and Jesus: The Third Man effect happens to people under extended exhaustive physical stress. People on expeditions, incl. Reinhold Messner, speak about that. The people are walking along, and someone walks along with them. Somehow they take that presence for granted. This person speaks with them, encourages them, they might even talk with them. But when, for some other reason, they turn and look in the direction where this person would be, no one is there. I can easily imagine that on this long walk to Damascus something like that happened to Saul. It would explain guardian angels, Jesus meeting Satan in the desert, even Moses and the talking burning bush. My boss told us when he was in the Himalaya, some 6000 meters high, he has the memory that on the summit they met a sherpa with his yak and talked with him. He knows that this is total nonsense, but he said the memory is as vivid as the rest of the tour - where he said due to the lack of oxygen at that height you were anyhow in some strange state of constant daydreaming.

To be fair there were also cameras at rockies fight . I mean i was just lookin’ at it.

Thanks Bart Herman for reviewing one of my favorite videos on the rise of Christianity! Well done both of you!

I didn't enjoy "Jesus Before the Gospels". I did enjoy this video. Good stuff as usual!

I get the feeling the eye of the tiger song lost the monetization on this one....

i would really love to know if bart or paul would ever be willing to host a webinar and have different people write an essay (to show how educated on the subject they are before wasting yalls time) to have an open discussion about christianity and the history vs the religion of the thing. I myself find it very very interesting that we get small things from the bible that help us feel like we are in those time periods, but i enjoy all religious texts for that reason. While i may not enjoy or agree with christians, to all out say everything they do is wrong, is exactly how they treated me as a young man. The cycle must end and the internet luckily gives us wayward souls a place of our own, We will end the cycle my friends.

Thnaks Paul, it is always a pleasure to watch your videos. I always learn something new.

Mr Ehrman seems to be a cool guy.

Thanks Paulogia! I would have pressed Dr. Ehrman for an actual letter grade, but hey, that just my thing. :)

Yeah Christian persecution happen to be localized and very sporadic, especially in the first three centuries of the Common Era.

damn now i really want to read that book on memory.

There are a great many religious and secular ideologies that skew towards a tendency towards believing that the world (although advancing in some avenues of life) is on a steady progression towards some form of societal chaos or doom. This is not necessarily an unwarranted perspective in general. Most of reality has a type of pattern where things (inorganic/organic/conceptual) develops/emanates into whatever form of "completion" it takes then gradually gives way to a type of finality. Stars, landmasses, weather systems, biology, conceptualizations (stories/myth), socio-economocal-political structures, knowledge, traditions, technology and also most impactful is our very own singular lifetime. It all has a cycle of growth and decline. What people tend to forget is the decline of something almost always inevitably moves into some other form. This change is what people become afraid of and are able to get taken advantage of with perspectives of doom. Specifically when it comes to societal structures it would be better service to humanity to acknowledge the flow of change while also understanding certain aspects of humanity are not necessarily bad just because it's of old concept.

While I am always interested to hear what Bart has to say, it's getting so whenever I see him showing up on half a dozen different youtube channels I wonder what it is he's flogging this week. Prior to his promotional campaign last year I think I'd seen him guest on one, maybe two shows over several years. Now he's on every channel I watch for a week and then disappears again. It would feel like less of a cheap shill if he showed up occasionally when he wasn't selling something. Having said that, I was very keen to see his opinion on Paul's theories, which have always seemed pretty solid to me.

As the son of a cognitive psychologist and a former Orthodox Christian (very focused on Tradition), I think a focus on memory - from a cognitive, social, and anthropological perspective would be EXTREMELY important. I fear that others just don't see it as relevant, and I probably would not have understood the relevance at one point, but it is. It has everything to do with how (in what ways) and how much the mechanism of tradition might be reliable and unreliable.

20:42 That was a great set up and a great delivery.

My one question to Bart Ehrman would be, "Are there any non religious/christian sources that confirm Jesus existed?"

Love that you’re fact checking yourself 💯

Great presentation, Now, please have Dr Carrier do the same thing for a balanced approach.

How is it possible that God, who sent himself as his son to Earth... couldn't read or write, and never bother to write ANYTHING.

Awesome job!!! Another banger by Paulogia

I love these guys. Very useful insights, from a lot of thought and study.

I always wondered who would have payed for a nice tomb.

Great content, great presentation. However I'm still not convinced. I will stay in Dr. Richard Carrier's camp until I hear more convincing evidence and arguments. Jesus was a myth based on earlier writings about a Jewish archangel. But like an honest scholar I am always willing to hear new evidence. Keep up the good work.

I don't know why Ehrman thinks he can draw any historical facts about Jesus by appealing to the stories in the Gospels. They were not written for historical accuracy.

I tend to agree that it's unlikely for the crucified corpse to be treated with any kind of respect by the romans. Especially if there is a prophecy about him returning from the dead. They most likely would have left him hanging there until the bones hit the ground on their own and the birds/rats had their fill. This was a person that challenged the authority of Rome, they definitely would make an example of him and be motivated to show his followers that he was just a normal man, nothing special.

What do you think about the theory that as the heir of the Maccabean royal lineage, his "mission" was actually to get the Romans out of Israel? His years of travel before entering Jerusalem would then be interpreted as trying to gather loyalist forces.

I’m confused, Bart speaks like this story is real, what am I missing?

7:20 It's also incorrect that we have no archaeological sources on this. We have the remains of exactly two crucified people: One, interestingly enough from the region of Jerusalem around the time of Jesus, has clearly received a decent burial, and the other one, found in Italy, was disposed of in an unmarked grave. The fact that out of all the hundreds of thousands of crucified people we just found those two, indicates that usually there was no proper burial, but it wasn't impossible, either.

Liked and Subscribed! Keep up the great work fam

Ugh. Habermas... He's just... I can't take him seriously. He waves around a book no one has seen to claim he has evidence he keeps taking away from his own arguments... It's...it's just dishonest. I only have a little training in history in the form of a Bachelor's degree in History, and I can say confidently Habermas is not an honest historian.

I'm under the impression that the phrase "40 days/nights" just means a long time. Like, "Give me a minute", "I'll be there in a sec."

I've asked this before... why isn't there a Gospel according to Jesus?

Interestingly, Peter, Paul and Mary (The music group) may have actually chosen that name out of reference to the biblical characters, because While Peter Yarrow and Mary Travers are named that, 'Paul' is Noel Paul Stookey's middle name and he only goes by it in the context of performing with Peter, Paul and Mary.

Every time I listen to Ehrman I'm left with the feeling that he doesn't believe in the historicity of jesus, but can't admit that publicly without losing his job or (he thinks anyway) losing his followers (i.e. those who buy his books).

I look forward to How Christianity Probably Began 2!

Destroying other people's property is a sin. So much for the jebus narrative of perfect.

The 500 is one of the problems. Jesus appeared to them before the Ascenction, 40 days at the latest after the Resurrection. How were 500 followers of somene accused of blasphemy and executed for insurgency gathering together in full sight of the Jewish and Roman authotities? Did they gather together to commemorate Jesus or in expectation of his reappearrance? Were there that many followers at that time? How did they get the message spread, without alerting the authorities?

I always wonder how Paul actually knew that he saw Jesus, seeing as it appears they never met.

Since back in the 1st century, people were not only vulnerable to superstition,but were also sensitive to the realness and power of dreams and visions,and probably were taught by the rabbis to believe so,could it be possible that when the disciples had dreams in bed at night,seeing that Jesus had such a tremendous affect and effect on their lives during those 3-4 years of walking and talking with him,that they were not only dreaming heavily about him,especially after the crucifixion,but took the dreams they were having about Jesus much more seriously then we do today,but they would add much more spiritual significance to them because of the way they were indoctrinated and taught-even by Jesus.Even in Acts 2:17 Peter said that in the last days "old men would dream dreams." which shows that,even though everybody has dreams,the old men would have special,spiritual dreams.

There goes that Short.

Paul, you gotta watch Dr Justin Sledge's (Esoterica) on how Paul's conversion vision sounds really close to Jewish Merkivah Mysticism. Its really spooky.

Bart’s so funny and his laughs are timed perfectly

I can imagine the motivation for this was that Christian channel that went through your how Christianity got started video ripping and ridiculing it. This was a very different video, always a pleasure to listen to Dr Ehrman though I think you must have been well aware that your video would “pass” with flying colours.

Checkmate Paulogia!

All seems irrelevant when you realise there never was a god of any kind.

Peter Paul and Mary cracked me up

He has risen!

Does your animation app automate your mouth movements? Presuming you create several mouth shapes and name them so the app what file goes with what mouth shape. Does it do it by a script, or voice recognition?

Your professor's claim that the first and only time Jesus and his disciples were in Jerusalem was during the week when he was killed is i think very odd. The custom for Jews at the time of Christ, as I understand it, was to go to Jerusalem every year for the Passover. We see this custom described in both the Old and New Testaments. Now not every Jew likely did this, but I would think the most pious tried to do it. Consider, for instance, the story of Hannah in the book of 1 Samuel. And the Gospels do speak of Christ being in Jerusalem for the festival on two prior occasions during His ministry and once with His parents when He is 12. So where is Dr. Bart getting this "feeling" that Jesus had never been in Jerusalem prior to Palm Sunday? He gives no corrobration for this "feeling." Not buying it.

Amazing work Paul