BIDEN GOES TRUMP? Massive dumps of Chinese tariffs 

Tell Judge to JAIL Trump for violating gag order AGAIN: atadvocacy.com/jail-trump-5624?ref=dp

Who wants to bet money that if Trump did this David Pakman would be calling him dumb

Trump banned wood products from Canada and South America which inceased lumber from 500 dollars per thousand b/f to 2000 dollars per thousand b/f! In America! That was dumb,dumb,dumb,!

As an normal American consumer, I hate this tariff act, without doubt.

in UK we call it anti dumping duties. Been around at least 30 years to my knowledge

I haven't followed the discussion about this in the US. I'm just a bit surprised this is not mentioned. The EU is most likely going to put tariffs on Chinese cars as well. But the reasoning for this is that Chinese cars manufacturers are being provided with enormous state subsidies. While in the EU this isn't allowed under normal circumstances. In China this is done to boost the Chinese car industry and make it more competitive. And to squeeze into other markets. Which of course will make Chinese cars a lot cheaper than European cars. So the European manufacturers are not at all competing on the same terms. I am guessing this is the same situation in the US?

It’s extremely important to use tariffs discriminately and with caution, but with regard to Chinese electrical vehicles which are vital for climate change and the continued less use of planet-destroying fossil fuels, China heavily subsidises its electric vehicle industry which makes them extremely economic to buy in an overseas market, but can ruin the home market and jobs of the importing country. I too would normally hugely disapprove of tariffs as being illiberal and uncompetitive; in the case of Chinese electrical vehicles, I wholly support any country placing import tariffs on their electric vehicles, since their massive and unfair subsidies destroy jobs and the home markets.

The people who pay most for these tarrifs are the consumers.

If a country's government commits profound human rights violations, and is profoundly corrupt (such as by concealing critical health statistics during an ongoing health crisis), and has lax occupational safety standards, and has lax product/food safety standards, and has lax environmental protection standards, and is suspected of incorporating espionage features in its exported electronic products, then I'm content with slapping huge tariffs on everything coming from that country. Our tariffs should be proportional to how dystopian that particular exporter is.

Very well said David Pakman!!

I worked for Lukens Steel in the early 80's. China's steel production (at that time) had government assistance. They dumped steel into our country. Even though Lukens complained, nothing was done.

Buy a Chinese battery or an American battery made by Americans in America? Easy choice folks.

Completely agree with biden on this

I discovered this channel because of my interest in American industries, as I am a small manufacturer in the United States. I hadn't heard of the show before. When the host mentioned his strong criticism of Trump's tariffs, I decided to watch a few of those videos. Mr. Pakman argues that Trump's tariffs were particularly harmful because they taxed raw materials and a wide range of imported goods, which led to higher prices for consumers. While that is true, it seems he either misses the bigger picture or is unwilling to acknowledge it. The bigger picture is that America is lagging behind in many current and future industry supply chains. Our dependence on China has grown too large, resulting in millions of lost American jobs over the past 15-20 years and a hollowed-out manufacturing sector. This sector once supported many communities and families sustainably. Has Mr. Pakman ever visited areas devastated by NAFTA? It took someone like Trump to stand up to China, something most politicians were afraid to do. While I don't consider China an enemy, anyone unbiased should recognize that we've given them significant leverage through wealth transfers since the 1990s. Now, they dominate American and European industries, causing substantial harm to the American economy and communities. Rather than fostering cooperation and mutual growth, we allowed China to use our wealth to build themselves up. You can thank Clinton, George W and Obama for that. They all allowed the outsourcing of American industries, enriching corporations and the wealthy class while betraying the blue-collar working class. Many families have suffered due to these decisions. Furthermore, the government printed more money throughout, which China used to strengthen their industries while ours declined. The recent inflation is a result of excessive government spending, a trend continued by every president since Bill Clinton, under whom we last had a balanced budget before NAFTA's impact. While tariffs should be a last resort to protect industries, people like this host need to admit that Trump was the only president of the last 3 with the courage to take measures to try and undo the damage caused by NAFTA. The fact that Mr. Pakman remains critical of Trump and not Biden without acknowledging the bigger picture suggests he is like many other Democrats described in this video. One of the few videos I've found from The New York Times clearly and undeniably highlights the hypocrisy on the left: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hNDgcjVGHIw.html It's clear these days, America has become a nation focused on individualism and consumption, while China remains a collectivist and production based society. Not that I agree with how Xi Jinping runs China--but there is massive strength in a nation of people that stand behind their nation. The mindset, highlighted in The New York Times piece, contributes to America's current struggles and mindset of individualism. Democrats often fail to admit that their decisions over the years have significantly contributed to our current situation. While most logical thinking people may not want a personality like Trump back in office, the numerous poor decisions over the last 30 years have led many and perhaps enough people to believe their own government is not on their side. Liberals love to just say its stupid MAGA voters but fail to take any accountability in why we are here today.

Excellent explanation. Thank you sir.

When the price of steel went up the machine shop that my husband worked at closed. He was then unemployed after 30yrs!

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis from several perspectives. Great work.

Amazing explanation Professor Pakman!

Chinese evs are not safe they catch fire.

The Chinese government subsidizes manufacturing to the point that the products are so cheap it makes everyone else goes out of business. We need tariffs to protect domestic manufacturing against countries clearly trying to undercut everyone else.

Thanks for this interesting discussion.

Can't believe I got a rfk ad before this lol

Some of the electric vehicles coming out of China look amazing. They recently launched one that reportedly gets 600 miles from a single charge. These cars are much cheaper than US and European electric cars. If Chinese electric cars were allowed into the US without tariffs, you could say goodbye to US car manufacturers. Would I like a car with all the features, 200+ miles of range and pay $25K instead of $60K," Yes, but I don't think it would be good for US workers. According to one report, manufacturing salaries in China averaged 97,500 Yuan per year in 2022. That's $13, 480! Now you see how they can produce cars so cheaply. As a point of reference, the Eu puts a 10% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles.

Of course these tariffs in Chinese electric vehicles will increase the cost to consumers, so should encourage Americans to buy from US car producers.

The argument for tariffs, especially in the case of Chinese solar panels and electric cars is that those industries are massively subsidized by their government, meaning that the "level playing field" that Libertarians want is impossible in the first place. If the Chinese government subsidies an industry to the point where it is impossible for a local industry to compete, as far as I can tell, you have four options: Ban imports, impose tariffs on imports, subsidize local production, or let the local industry die. Taking no action is still a choice, you are choosing to let local industry die. The Libertarian argument only works for situations that are entirely localized inside your own country. Once other governments skew the free market, local government action is required.

Chinese EVs are way more dangerous than Tesla's (which are far from problem free themselves), buy at your own risk

I like how pulling levers and figuring out what they do later (read: never) is Trump's entire political strategy.

No david, Chinese EV have a very bad reputation. safety features don't work, batteries self ignite, strucutal damages appear after a few thousand miles. surf the internet , the byd flagship is a prime example

Are the Chinese subsidizing their EV's ? Unfair advantage?

I would never buy American.

Look what happened to Australian with car company employing thousands of Australian they all left with taxpayer money

The Free Market already decided CHINA WON. People vote with their wallets and Chinese products are cheaper than American made goods. It doesn't matter that American goods are marginally better because the huge markup on the cost of production domestically is too high.

I guess this is a great thing now

*D.Trump put tariffs on necessities that We The Peoples needs to produce products & on items that lower income people would buy,- President Biden's tariffs are intelligent.*

China provides subsidies aimed at eliminating competition, followed by disrupting the supply chain and controlling the market. This strategy is consistently applied across various sectors, from toys to EVs and solar panels. If America doesn't act, the auto industry may face a fate similar to the rare earth industry.

Gonna be real. Should've just entirely banned Chinese EVs.

If I understand him correctly, he's saying that the distinction between presidents is that Trump's were source materials and Biden is doing completed EVs only. It appears both presidents placed tariffs on source materials (steel and aluminum) as well as other things. The argument doesn't track.

Doubling the price of Chinese EVs through a tariff seems like it just gives a pass to American EV makers to keep pushing out overpriced, crappy EVs rather than trying to compete or innovate. Some degree of tariff makes sense to offset the Chinese companies' advantages from lax labor laws and government assistance, but 100%+ is simply pricing them out of the market so US companies can ignore them.

Massive dumps!!!

I think tariffs in general are bad 😞

YOU BET IT WAS A GREAT MOVE FROM BIDEN ✊✊✊🇺🇸🫡✌️

Both sets of tariffs are a very good idea. Here's why: As someone in the EV space, it is an absolute certainty that USA based manufacturers - who have spent billions to modify their own infrastructure for EV production - would go belly up. Leading to TOO MANY JOBS lost. Not just some. BYD is the main manuf. of EVs in China ($10k for a car) and they're dirt cheap bc labor condition distortions. Now they are building a plant in Mexico to try and skirt these tariffs. TBD there. 100% tariffs prohibits BYD from killing Ford, Chevy, etc. Bottom line, these tariffs are necessary because China has next to zero worker rights and artificially drives down the true cost of an EV.

Smoot-Hawley ring any bells?

The competition with Chinese car manufacturer isn’t about the product, it’s about the American workforce not being able to compete with Chinese laborers willing to work for wages that can’t support a person in the United States and under conditions not legal in the United States.

Tariffs as protectionism are bad for competition. Will only continue to drive prices up. EV’s are already to expensive.

Shower time with Ashley!

The problem with your competition quote there about the electric vehicles is that competition tends not to yeild innovation but to stifle it. Competition typically devolves into a race to the Bottom where the only terms that count are the bottom lines. Chinese vehicles are likely cheaper because corners of quality were cut in production.

We're a people who have become cripplingly myopic. Greed is too much of a driving force. It very well could be, long term, beneficial to allow these cheaper and effective Chinese electric vehicles into the nation for the reasons David pointed out (competition driving advancement, driving down costs, improving our economy). However, even if it 100% is the case (which I cannot argue), we only ever measure the economy in three-month increments. We've prioritized short-term growth over long-term stability. We are literally incapable, because of economic reasons, of even attempting to see the bigger picture.

Is this a short term programme to help certain US manufacturing get running until on an even keel?

I thought David would have mentioned international acceptance of anti-dumping as a justification for tarrifs, partly because below-cost sales can be used to destroy a smaller competitor. Also note the large number of Chinese EVs "officially" sold overseas, but actually in dealers' hands because of local reports of quality problems. If you want more on this, note that Joe Blogs did a video "CHINA Businesses Imploding as 30% Make Losses as Overcapacity Drives Down Prices & Profits " which mentioned the E V market in the context of items being manufactured well in excess of market demand.

Tariffs only raise the price of goods we import from China. The only way to stop the imports is by manufacturing the products here. That isn't an easy thing to do either. Our wages are ten times higher than the wages paid in China. It's a no win situation.

I'm very much in favor of Biden's building up of domestic manufacturing and raw materials sourcing, especially in the green tech sector. Trump's "I've got a bigger hammer" tariff approach would be far worse, and I'd have to assume that EVs and solar panels would be simply be outlawed under the rule of the Orange Turd, no matter which country attempts to offer them. But as domestic auto manufacturers get additional protections from these new tariffs, they also have to finally step up to the plate and give American consumers the sort of small, affordable EVs that the Chinese have proven that they can build. So sick of luxury, feature-laden, super-sized battery-powered SUVs/pickups that are unaffordable to most. I drive a small 12 year old Japanese EV that I'm not about to give up any time soon. Sadly, though, the Japanese, Korean and European manufacturers have been conned into thinking that the smaller cars they used to offer are no longer viable here. Much of the blame for that can also be put at the feet of the CAFE "footprint rule," which is anachronistic leftover of the fossil fuel era.

If it really is too try to help American companies catch up, there must be a time limit and a phasing out period. Unlimited protectionism doesn't encourage innovation or competition, only lobbying for more protectionism.

Before Trump democrats were more known for tariffs. Protectionism isn’t effective in the tariff practice. I’m usually against tariffs in principle. Quotas I think would be more effective.

Will this cause more expensive for the consumers?

Manufacturing must come back

Tariffs should be used to protect and support internal industries. Putting a tariff on EVs makes sense because the US has an EV industry. Putting tariffs on electronic components makes no sense because most of these are made in foreign countries even if they are from US companies like Intel and Microchip and they are used in US manufacturing. Blanket tariffs are lousy as a punitive measure as they can and usually do end up making conditions worse in the county imposing the tariffs.

Go Biden 2024

Depends on the tariff rate. 100% seems excessive

I think David is right that it is hard to judge whether increased tariffs on chinese evs is a good or bad idea and that more info is needed. One would hope that Biden and his advisors have better data than we do and are making a good choice, but I"m not sure I trust the gov't without independent confirmation.

Pointless, they'll just circumvent the tariffs by trading through an intermediatery.

Where are you getting your information on some Chinese EVs being excellent? I’m sure you can’t be talking about their safety record.

You could argue that a tariff such as this could result in the cost of services to remain high. If vehicles are an input to a lot of services then having cheaper vehicles could result in lower cost of services. There is also the environmental tax if EV's are slower to hit market adoption due to cost to acquire and support then there we are breathing more particulate matter and using up more fossil fuels. If Chinese EV's were dirt cheap to acquire more folks would purchase an extra car as a commuter/around town car which could result in less inner city pollution. I'm with the libertarian philosophy on this, we have too many rules and regulations for 100% domestic production of EV's to be competitive. We don't produce budget vehicles in this country anymore. We should import them if we're not going to make them.

You discussed the motives or reasoning for both sides of a tariff. What you didn't address is the reality of tariffs. If there's a 102% tariff on Chinese EVs, that means domestic EVs will increase as well. Ex: If China sells an EV for $20k and the USA sells it for $30k, consumers will typically buy the Chinese EV to save money. You throw a 102% tariff on that Chinese EV, it's now +$40k. The hope is that the $30k American EV will now be attractive to the consumers since it's $10k cheaper. What actually happens is the American EVs will increase in price to match the Chinese price because that is money left on the table if they don't. Will they go the full $10k? Maybe. No competition stopping it. Even $5k is a sizeable increase. It's money they weren't going to get otherwise so it's pure profit. That is why tariffs fail. The moment you force the price of imports above domestics, you raise the price of domestics to grab the money left on the table. You start the process over, but at a new and higher starting point. Consumers lose. That's why Trump had mediocre GDP during his presidency. He never broke 3% for a single year averaging 1.9% for 4 years. His tariffs raised the price on goods hurting the US consumer. I get Biden is trying a specific tariff to help 1 industry. In the end, it hurts the industry because they don't have to make their product more efficiently. They know their wasted costs will be protected by the government rather than engineered out to make a better product.

It’s not that complicated, the EV tariffs save many jobs but in doing so it stops cheaper and better EVs from being on the US streets which would benefit not only the American consumers but also the environment. In theory those better cheaper EVs from china would force other manufacturers to lower prices and to develop their own solid state batteries

These tariffs are a bad idea. Everytime tarrifs have been increased, it lead to a recession, or turned a recession into a depression

Guess what the Chinese did to avoid tariffs, they moved some industries to Vietnam and Cambodia, so it doesn't really matter. Anything else hurts only the consumer. I'll cross the EV bridge if i ever get to it. If the planet was concerned about gas consumption, they'd focus on mass transportation.

Your country is going to become like Apple..walled off and more expensive for everything.

The devil you know vs. the 5th grade mentality devil you don't know.

Honestly this is one thing I agree with trump on, and I am glad Biden is doing it to.

You think about it they have been working hard for years and years longer than us and the United States about I like to vehicles and stuff so it looks like they are in wonderful shape with them. I’m seeing them. I’m seeing all the pieces on them and if you could get it at a good price, worry about Americans product when it’s not that good

Chinese evs are dangerous

Based Biden.

What pray tell will be the retaliatory tariffs imposed by China increasing inflation from this move?

Who would buy a chinese ev?

What would be the difference Tariffs vs tax breaks? Quick thought it makes US makers more competitive compared to the ultra cheap stuff China can make. Companies like John Deer with their cruel regulations and design features that ONLY JD certified person can fix at a DJ location.

when a country tries to practice dumping in the US, this is what you do. This is nothing like trump's approach

Letting Chinese evs take hold in the American market limits the ability for markets to rebalance later to include potential ev demands to us companies. I say tariff ok at the product level. Tesla is facing problems, letting other us manufacturers fill that void is better to keep that market based here.

David, sir, i thought the only thing they had in common was their age and being sleepy!!!

Do not be hipocrit ! UNBELIVABLE HOW MANY TIMES TRUMP PREDICTED THE FUTURE ! 😮😮😮

I imagined it could be some sort of veiled sanction, "behind the curtain" movements against Putin and allies or "more aligned" parties, trying to discourage/preemptively weaken something analog to the take over of Crimea/Ukraine that certain non-democratic countries have been also making their not-so-behind-the-curtains preparatory movements for years, even creating entire artificial islands.

Sometimes you hurt my brain David.

400 mil bacuna punta cana jonson 2428

As if capitalism (and Drumpf's tariffs) hadn't already made everything too expensive. 🙂

So we'll be paying more money for everything?

Here’s a perspective-Biden doesn’t want Musk spending millions or even billions to get him out of the White House.

If the environment is so important, and electric cars are an important aspect of that, how can you support these tariffs? The minor and highly debtated economic benefit will not outweigh the potential of slowing down of such an important industry. Also, chips and others are included, so it is not just end products.

I'm not nor ever was against tariffs; however, I am against these large tariff increases that happen all at once. Incremental tariff increases are how tariffs should be imposed. A 400% increase is overkill, as 30% was too much all at once from Drumpf. 10% per year or two over time is how you impose tariffs. The consumer has time to adjust, and domestic manufacturing has time to acclimate. I'm going to go out on a limb here, Yellen is advising that this is a way to curb China's supersaturation of the world market with exports. That is the only way I can give this proposal credence. This really only works if the rest of the Western world is on board. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out. It also creates a level of isolationizm, east vs west. Only time will tell.

Are Chinese evs even sold in USA, haven't seen any, or are we talking about Teslas made in china and then imported, has to be the latter right

Just as our Founders understood the difference between the Republic form and Pure form of democracy they also understood the difference between regulated and unregulated Capitalism. They chose wisely. Not so, our Politicians.

The EV tariff is a more nuanced subject. The American auto industry hasn’t been advancing at the same rate as the rest of technology. The people in charge have taken money from oil companies specifically to slow a transition to available energy and environment-friendly technologies. Even companies with massive brand loyalty have had to be bailed out. AFAIC, this is a further bailout, caused by the short-sightedness and greed of the American auto industry leadership. I mean…that leadership should be pressured to improve for the benefit of their own bottom line with the existing tariffs. If WE are so bad at competition in the auto industry that we have to CRIPPLE the competition to THIS extent… it’s past due for some new leadership in that industry.

Dumps, massive dumps. When you can't compete, levy tariffs! ...until China puts tariffs on Teslas and Rivians, crushing those American companies. (not that I'm opposed to crushing Tesla)

The general tariffs are probably the biggest driver of inflation for American consumers…specific tariffs, such as on electric vehicles, make sense as a means to protect incipient local industries until they mature….

I'm not trying to be rude but have you been emulating? Matt gates's hairstyle a little bit?

What kind of tariff? lol 😂. Chinese might leaked information that might get him impeached.

I'm not an expert in economics, but if I have my ev for 200 dollar and China brings in their 150 dollar EV, however the country saves my ass and force China to sell his car for 450 usd, that would be an invitation for me to sell my 200 dollar car for 400 usd because I love price gouging without financialy dangerous competitions... Or am I too pessimistic?

You can approve or disapprove on tariff but your distinction is disingenuous and not reflective of reality. Biden just announced a 25% tariff on synthetic graphite, which is not a finished product, but raw material used in battery.

Put politics aside, and honestly ask yourself, if given a choice, would you choose a american/european/japanese product, or a chinese one ?

when the cost of labor is significantly different between nations then pure libertarian idealism hurts both the economy and social cohesion of the nation with greater labor costs. in the global market place we are not all on the same level playing field or playing by the same rules. however having said that, tariffs should be narrow targeted and not broad based, and only maintained until the playing field is brought to a more reasonable level and some trade rules agreed upon between nations. it's all about finding the best compromise, but as we all know, no-one loves a compromise. but Trump was behaving like a bull in a china shop - or in our current age, a China dominated global market place - wrecking more than fixing anything. but China does not bear the full blame as US corporations moved some of their manufacturing facilities to China to increase their profits by using China's cheaper labor.

Try and tell the Japanes car manufacturers that tarrrifs are bad, mkay?