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At this point, despite never holding office or working for the government, I had to check my own closet and file drawer to make sure I didn't have any classified documents in case they somehow got there.
@NewWorldJacobite Don't bother. They won't be at your private residence. They be at one of your other residences that you own... oh sorry I forgot normal citizens don't usually have multiple residences where they could accidentally leave Top Secret documents.
Between this and the Mike Pence classified documents I feel like the DOJ needs to crack down hard. I used to work with classified military documents and this is a shit show.
Jon Stewart did a great piece on this and part of the issue is the number of things considered classified. Things printed in the newspaper can be considered classified documents too. It's crazy
I think part of the issue so much of the stuff that a president touches is classified that it can be hard to keep track of all of it. Like if a president scribbled on a notepad “Plane at 5PM to Paris”, that gets classified.
This is terrible, and our recent presidents are a huge embarrassment. We really didn't know how lucky we were to have presidents like Bush and Obama who weren't senile and at least made a basic effort to fulfill their presidential responsibilites.
We found top secret docs in my great grandparents house after grandma died (both worked for Army). We just immediately called law enforcement and asked what to do, and we followed the directions they gave us. But one was a clerk and one was a juniorish officer, and if people with that level of access have stuff lying around we have a BIG problem
the reality is that most classified documents... would be indistinguishable from normal documents if they weren't marked... it's WHY they're marked so carefully. But also it means the info is often... boring. Like access logs for a secure facility. Who cares what time various people came in? obviously there ARE nefarious uses, and good reasons to safeguard the data. But your average person could read the data, and not see it as anything of any value. A lot of things get classified for.... routine reasons. X facility is secured, thus all access logs are classified, etc.... Knowing potential harm to the US requires knowing WHAT the documents are... and I suspect Biden doesn't care about things as mundane as access logs.
You really need to google what classified in secret actually means to the government. I had a security clearance because I needed to be able to read 20 year old schematics for a military helicopter. So a private can have a security clearance. However, I was not permitted to take any of them home.
Have we considered that we just need a better system to keep track of classified documents and retrieve them after terms are up rather than trust that old (and sometimes malicious) men will remember where every piece of paper they ever got over 4-8 years ever went.
It's not that easy. Never printing classified documents and keeping it all digital works well in most cases, but those in Washington aren't just sitting in one location. On top of that, politicians are not career intelligence analysts and haven't had handling procedures hammered onto their heads. The last quarter of the video touches on this.
@@Jehty_ there is a non-0% possibility that they were thrown into a redwell/briefcase/folder/cardboard box and brought home to be reviewed overnight or a weekend or during a break - as busy people do. It's really not that weird. Is it irresponsible and probably against protocol? Probably.
@Kent Han Hell, there's a nonzero chance someone did go through all the documents and these were just missed, because that happens, even in a fairly thorough search.
I had classified documents in my home between 2015 and 2020. During which time I was working as a civilian contractor for the air force. The documents remained in a safe that was provided to me by the air force, in my home office, except when I was using them for my work. When i was done, a group of airmen and MPs came to my home and retrieved the safe and documents, as well as the hard drives from the computer I was using to fulfill my contract.
I wonder why a sweep for classified documents isn’t a standard part of leaving high level office. Seems like an opportunity to tighten up if nothing else.
(Also, the only time anyone should announce where the 5th fleet is steaming to is when we're lying to the enemy in order to deceive them. ALL true operational details should be closely held.)
@@clocksurfer I was under the impression you're not supposed to lie about the information either, unless given proper authorization. It's certainly the case for when you're captured, though that's more about trying get people to not dig themselves into a hole that could piss off the captors. You just don't answer when asked.
@Ms. A. Laenius Agreed. I'm referring specifically to official public statements. Officials should only announce OpSec sensitive information to the press/public when it's intentionally misleading the enemy as part of sanctioned foreign policy. "Art of War" type stuff...
Part of the problem with Trump is his refusal to work with the transition and refusal to leave the White House until the very last minute, which I'm sure added unnecessary time pressure to any attempt to filter what was being packed by his minions...
Better solution, ban them all from government work forever, bring in a new batch. Don't bother sorting out who did or didn't jeopardize national security, just go full clean slate.
Everyone gets the training annually by legal requirement. In most agencies (if not all) they will literally suspend your credentials if you don't do it in time.
Not really. 2 of 3 people found some they immediately recognized were not in the correct place, secured them & contacted appropriate agencies. Probably from hearing about the 3rd who had been moving around to avoid detection.
A president who keeps his own, declassified documents is following the rules. A vice president who is leaving classified docs in an unsecured garage on some boxes, is a criminal.
This is actually a really good suggestion. I was a librarian for 20+ years, and now I am in charge of privacy compliance for my employer. I also serve on the committee that deals with data security and classification issues and policies. We librarians have the applicable skills. (I should add that I am not an American citizen, and so I could never be employed by the US Government as I cannot get a security clearance.)
@@williamharris8367 If you became a naturalized citizen, you could still get a security clearance as long as you could pass a background check. Not trying to suggest anything, just wanted to point out in case someone else was confused like I was at first.
The problem isn't that there aren't staff to perform these tasks, but that they don't have the authority to overrule the President or Vice President on procedural stuff like document handling. Can you imagine anyone telling Trump 'no' about anything?
My dad “found” church records spanning decades in his attic - he had put them there some 30 years prior, well before GDPR. Historically so many organisations have had a lax attitude to the security of their documents. I’ll bet a lot of documents return quietly from many politicians’ homes now. Let’s hope everyone gets training regularly after this!
Probably would happen a lot less if we capped the max age for a politician at 50. All these geezers throwing stones at each other when they are all just as inept.
@@amarissimus29 you should check out independent journalists. Its incredibly disturbing to say but I've found youtube journalists that are a lot better at covering topics media likes to cover up. PBS is pretty good too for a corporation, and mostly does fact based news.
Church documents cannot be classified, they are not government. What you are talking about is different, fake stuff, written which has 0 value, is not a classified document. I do not see the parallel. There is not nearly the incentive to protect garbage church stuff, as there is to protect lives
Yeah, I'm gonna guess no one has the time or energy for that. Especially since many of them are rich and have multiple properties to search.... and given what counts as classified documents.... I can almost guarantee 98% of them have something.
I think what the two people above me are missing is that this would be an “audit” not a criminal investigation. It can help lead to determining how to go forward when dealing with these lapses in security.
The fact that it's so normal for people to forget they have seriously important documents makes me think we should have some kind of tracker on them or do a sweep of the home/offices of high ranking officials every 4 years or SOMETHING.
A tracker would be practically impossible since most of these are hand written notes and documents they printed themselves. Top secret clearances renew every 5 years, so that would be a good time to require a sweep.
@@tigerofdoom That makes sense. I know people are constantly working on new tiny tech, but just a supervised check and someone having a list of what one has would be better than finding out secrets were in a back office for 12 years.
I love the way Devin almost shouted that sponsor segue "HOMES ARE NOT FOR STORING CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS, THEY ARE FOR MAKING DELICIOUS HOME-COOKED MEALS!"
That resulted in me actually watching the ad, which I rarely do. I found it funny he was wearing a suite when cooking lol. I imagine if he's selling sponsored pillows in the future it will be him sleeping in the bed in a suite.
fun fact: while watching this, i expressed my frustration to my mother about these two taking things home when they shouldn't. my mother, who worked for the irs once upon a time, said it's actually way more common than i'd think, and proceeded to tell me a story of one agent who, after being retired for three years, discovered boxes of classified documents he had taken home for work. he had to hire one of those professional shredding trucks, once he reported himself to his old supervisors....
@@GoldenSunAlex exactly, I'm sure every President or Vice President has done it at least once if not more, it's easier to work on something if you have something with you, not saying that it's right or anything but I don't recall The Archives ever saying anything about missing documents until the last President did it, I have no issues with Presidents keeping such docs while they are in that office even though I'm not a fan of Don to begin with. That being said, how he handled the situation was wrong, archives kept saying they were still missing some and instead of giving them up, the FBI had to raid him via a search warrant. Say what people want regarding Biden and Pence but when their docs were found, they immediately had it reported and surrendered them and if the FBI requested a search of their residence then they granted it.
Its stupid to prosecute anyone for this. They had it at one point for a legitimate reason for having it and ultimately its ridiculous that anyone is surprised that our legislators and presidents have classified documents. I don't care which president it is. I highly suspect that this has happened to every president in the history of the US. I mean it has never been an issue.
Yeah, I was a technician for an infantry battalion, and I actually found some classified cryptography notes in my backpack from a deployment nearly a decade ago. I can see how these things would get mixed up after years of service--
@LockGrinder just because they live there as a President doesn't mean that they live there 24/7, there are times where they want to go back to their actual home.
Its wild that these high politicians have nothing happening to them IMMEDIATELY. I live in an area where a solid portion of jobs require clearance and stuff…I have talked to people who have either ACCIDENTALLY taken a sheet of paper home or just been accused…and they got the entire HR book thrown at them with the threat of having the LEGAL book thrown at them INSTANTLY.
The politicians are the ones in charge over whether or not they get in trouble, silly. Remember; the justice system is carefully designed to protect them and harm us. Why would they harm themselves?
Yeah. That's what irritates me too - federal crimes should absolutely be something that polluticians of any level and persuasion should be responsible for. As it is, they literally can get away with murder.
We need more booths and oswalds in the world today. We can't count on the legal system to do it's job against these people, maybe a physics lesson is required.
During WW2 a random Canadian soldier cleaning an office after the Quebec Conference found a folder that he figured had been left behind and took it home as a souvenir. When he got home, he opened the file and... found D-Day landing plans. He handed the folder back on Monday, was visited by a half dozen very annoyed and angry policing agencies, somehow managed to not go to prison, got a medal for keeping quiet, and took the secret of which allied leader accidentally left invasion plans in his office to the grave.
To be fair, to prosecutor the guy would have ben an open announcement that such plans existed. And the efforts to keep such plans a secret (to the point they obtained a corpse of a homeless person, cleaned/dressed the person up as an officer, locked a briefcase with fake documents on to the corpse's wrist, and dropped the corpse in the Mediterranean for the Spaniards to find and provide access to the Nazis before returning the corpse to the British), it was probably easier to scare the guy within an inch of his life to keep quiet. A trial would have been begging for attention in the media.
I believe there is, but it's simply too much to keep track of. I'd assume numerous classified and sensitive documents go to the president and vice president every single day, as well as the countless documents and copies of documents for staff. There may be an electronic system, but that is immediately more vulnerable to malice than an analog record.
@@MediumChungus223 yes but if a computer is managing it all then you can set instances such as the status of a person or if a person has documents for X amount of time, they need to be rechecked out. If that simple system was in place then it would have detected that Biden and Trump still had documents checked out but their status changed to regular citizen.
@@wolfarix no it’s literally not, because someone still has to enforce those documents getting back/ there’s 1.3 million people with access, often getting many docs at a time, with 3 docs every second being ADDED to the classification folder. That’s soooooo much
Plus, as noted in the video, if you take notes while reading a classified document, your notes are classified too. Not only do these people handle a lot of classified documents, they generate them. And sometimes they generate them without anyone else knowing that they have done so. On the flip side, ... I know of a case where a physics professor worked for one semester at another university. Some of the documents he handled were classified by the Department of Energy, and the filing cabinet he stored them in was clearly marked with a warning that some of it's contents were classified. Those markings were still on that filing cabinet years afterwards, long after all classified material had been removed and the cabinet had been repurposed by the next person to use that office. What I am saying is that while in theory nothing should be marked as classified that actually isn't, practice doesn't always match. And there's a whole spectrum of classifications and classified material. Some classified material isn't very important and/or isn't particularly secret. And we don't know what a lot of these documents were, beyond them being classified material (or at least marked as such). (Though some we do know about, at least vaguely. I believe Trump's documents have been said to include information on the nuclear capabilities of other nations and the names of US intelligence sources, and both of those are pretty big deals.)
@@avacadomangobanana2588 That could be answered by creating a special task force and the amount of added documents is doable. I mean look at the rate RU-vid uploads are.
This is such a weird problem 🤔 like do we need to lend out classified documents like library books and start harassing them after 2 weeks or they can’t take anymore out? 📚
It's only weird cuz it's a problem at all like this frankly shouldn't be we should already have a system in place to prevent this stuff and the fact that there isn't or at least seems to be little over sight over important documents is extremely sus
Hahahahaha, ahhh what if I told you we mostly keep them electronically, and they aren’t that closely tracked unless they’re super crazy classified We have millions of classified and billions of sensitive documents. We can’t track who’s printing them!
Flashbacks to annual training. ☠️ And why the hell do I have to do this training every year, but they don't seem to even do it even once? I don't even handle classified docs.
RIGHT. All that OPSEC shit just to not even have security clearance...but these mfkers are going out on a hot day and fanning themselves with classified docs
Honestly, I appreciate the fact that you have to undergo the training annually. It may not be in written form, but some of the topics I confide in my emotional support waffle about should never be spoken of again.
This video answers better than any other media I've consumed about why all these documents keep getting found and then IMMEDIATELY turned over or announced. At first, I'm like, "wouldn't an aide or lawyer want to wait and protect their boss/client?" But hell no. If I could catch a felony if it's ever discovered I saw an NDI and didn't act immediately, there's no way I would risk my neck even if I thought my boss/client had just 'made a mistake.'
Turning it over also protects their client legally. The client can easily claim honest/negligent mistake if you hand it over immediately. If you hold it, the legal protection of "oops" disappears. It just hurts them from a reputation stand point. Which, frankly, is a good thing. We'd rather have people take the reputational slap on the wrist and get classified documents back into protected areas and perform an assessment of the damage incurred than feel incentivized to hide their misdeeds so we have no idea that information got out, be continually exposed to it being outside of protection, and have no knowledge of what happened to it or who had access so that appropriate remediation could be taken.
@@forgottenfamily it does not help when it’s secret, rumored to have nuclear secrets, and is just the empty folder when they kick in your door after the 50th refusal that you even have it.
@@tekkersmo3816 Does it? Considering the Nuclear Secrets thing was only mentioned in the Media and never by the FBI or DOJ. It wasn't like Trump straight up refused. They were going back and forth and the FBI had been at his place months earlier and had no issues. The reason for the delay with the documents was a disagreement over classification and personal record. All the jazz and flamboyant nonsense from media heads turned out to be nothing. Instead of nuclear secrets it was his letters back and forth with Kim Jong Un. Stuff that legitimately is his own personal record considering the fact that nobody disputed Bill Clintons recorded calls from his time in office as "personal". If Trump did something as bad as you all believe, he'd be in jail as we speak. The military have that power and the Democrat DOJ is keen to help if they can. If this was a proper threat to national security there wouldn't be this whole dog and pony show. You'd see results. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State was negligent with her unsecured server with classified documents on it according to Comey. She had dozens of Classified documents on her server, some Top Secret. There was over 6 people without a clearance with access to that server on a daily basis from her assistant Huma, to Anthony Weiner and their tech workers like Pagliano. This was NOT a problem for ANY Democrat and the DOJ at the time even though this was years after her time in office. She was not apologetic about it and you guys pretend like this isn't a precedent setting event. This is exactly why they can't and wont charge Trump. They would have to charge her and Biden.
There is clearly a common thread however, refusing to return the documents to the point where the government has to forcibly retrieve them takes this to a whole other level.
Trump did return documents, just not all. Same as Joe. Main difference i see (next to the legal gray zone): Trump was publicly raided with high manpower for documents stored in a secure location. Biden was first kept silent then lowkey searched for documents, that were laying all over the place.
How about covering up that you broke the law before an election? Do you not think the public had a right to know about this discover on Nov 2nd , before the midterms?
Seriously, it doesn't matter that it waz Trump that did it, anyone who reacts the way that he did should be punished appropriately regardless of who they are.
I think the national archives should do an audit regularly so they at least know where the documents are and retrieve them if they are stored improperly
@@udirt the issue though is the documents held by pence and biden were not even known by NARA, both Biden and Pence found this themselves and let NARA know that hey you are missing documents, that you should have had on the books but apparently don't. Otherwise Nara would have requested themselves and they would not have been in limbo so long.
There's also the problem that someone's spontaneously written notes could qualify as top secret documents if they contain top secret information on it. If those notes were never disclosed to NARA they wouldn't even have a paper trail of possession to audit.
Just wanted to add a note to both sides. Some "classified" documents are pretty null in nature. When working for the USDA I randomly came across aerial photos of the surrounding areas from WW2 that were still labeled classified. Many documents stay classified well after they don't need to be. I don't think that's what's going on here but still a fun note to add.
It's like those old laws from 1842 that are somehow still on the books like "You may not put a hat on a mule on any day starting with an S. He who does so shall forfeit 3 chickens or the value thereof."
Yeah, the overclassification of documents is a reasonably well known and old problem. The topic of this video is a separate, but related issue. Hopefully with all the publicity on classified documents the overclassification issue gets some much needed attention as well. It's a problem.
A law like "any document over 30 years old needs its classification rejustified" would be really nice. But I don't think there would be any practical way to make sure the people recateogorizing these documents would release things that are embarrassing to the US government but not still relevant to national secruity
I worked for a USG contractor once. They had very regular and very _thorough_ security inspections (and we only dealt in the lowest level of Classified materials). I find it hard to believe anyone is doing any kind of security inspections for elected officials or their staff--or else this stuff would've been caught within a few weeks at most.
It's really weird and kind of disturbing that a typical public library apparently has a better idea of where their books are than the federal government. Has it occurred to no one to give an official leaving office a checklist of "this is all the stuff you still owe us, make sure we get it before you move out?"
The sheer volume of documents that probably pass through the offices of the President or VP would likely make it impossible to inspect or track effectively. Not saying impossible, but it's almost certainly a lot harder than a low-level mook like us.
I think the total volume of paper is probably a large factor here. Like, how many million documents went through Biden / Trump/ whomever and their staff while they are VP or higher. What % were classified (and what % needlessly). What is the % of human error on those. Some errors like this are almost inevitable at that scale. Having no mistakes is pretty much an impossible goal, it's how you deal with them that really matters. Perhaps in future presidents will hire a "divestment" team or something to review all their documents and *reduce* this kind of mistake. I'll bet you a coke even then some would slip through to be discovered later. I think (with a little experience) there's also a difference between working on something classified, and living a 24/7 life surrounded by it while also in the public eye and needing to undertake a multitude of duties outside that classified role. Every transition is a point errors can happen.
You know, when I was a teenager working at a clothing store, we had to check each other's bags before we could walk out of the store, every time we left... Kind of embarrassing Suzy Shier had stricter safeguards in place than the whitehouse
Except you didn't work there 24/7 and were expected to take hundred of items of clothing with you back home to wear of an evening with just you and your 24 man secret service team to keep them safe over the course of 12 years or so. But only some of those clothes had to come back. Now you've forgotten to return 12 out of hundreds or thousands of them. Does that make it more relatable to you?
because we're minimum wage workers. if we steal something worth $2 the country will spend $1000 making sure we can never earn another $2... trapping a person in a cycle of stealing. *only mildly joking* I'm sure you saw how many shoplifters they caught. And how many karens went unchallenged.
In fairness, I'm pretty sure that the security safeguards for low level employees with access to classified documents is stricter than the safeguards for, say managers. This is more like the people from corporate taking stuff home than a teenager.
The whole willful argument is a weird one. Part of my mandatory training for working with similar documents talked about a story of a person who left classified documents at a desk they were sharing during traveling. That act wasn't willful. The documents being in an area where others who didn't have classification to read them was what did them in. They faced legal charges, lost their career, and were faced with high fines as a result. I don't really see why our presidents get an okay for it while the paper pushers get shoved into a cell.
Absolutely. However in T-Man’s case he decides what is or isn’t classified. The VP doesn’t have that option. However unfortunately Biden is currently the President and can simply exonerate or pardon himself.
Willful might be a hard standard to prove for either Biden or Trump if we consider that dementia reduces your ability to make meaningful decisions so arguably neither of them might be capable of choosing to do things in a legal sense.
As someone who used to handle classified documents up to TS/SCI I am still flabbergasted at how casual our leaders are about securing NDI according to regulations. If any of us common folk did that we'd be in jail or separated with a quickness. And the only reason I'm aware of for TS NDI to be at someone's home is supposedly that captains of nuclear missile subs have a special system at home that allows them to recieve TS messages dealing with ship's movement - so I got no freakin idea what those files were doing anywhere outside an approved storage location.
Rules for thee and not for me. They know they will be able to just get away with maybe a slap on the wrist if anything, so they don’t need to be as careful. When I was enlisted and working with classified documents and ammunition, I was so paranoid I was going to make an honest mistake and go to prison.
I can't help but feel like they're not in the mindset of "leave work at work" and just bring it home like anything else. . Now we know one way spies are going to consider getting docs, not that it's likely to be successful. 13 hours for a couple folders doesn't seem that lucrative, especially when they can't know what's inside.
Likely they don't think about it because they are just handed things, and have huge secretarial staffs and don't have intelligence agency backgrounds. They really should be going after the analysts who signed out the documents and didn't retrieve them.
And since POTUS is the only elected official who actually lives at his place of work, everyone else probably takes work home. And unless it's the highest clearance items that can only be viewed in a SCIF, how do prevent NDI from being comingled with other materials?
It's sad that some areas like the military have very, very strict rules and policies that include special police following you to make sure you lock up documents properly - but government officials who are mostly elderly and forgetful have 0 checks.
I love this channel. I especially like that LE will hand over the reins to a specialist when the topic calls for it. I used to work in the IT department of a regional law firm, and this is exactly how things operated internally. Sometimes I would even be asked to meet with attorneys if a case had a substantial technical aspect. A true discoverer will always seek out new knowledge rather than pretend to already know everything.
This leads me to believe that being in possession of classified documents isn't as uncommon as we believe it should be. While they may be deemed "classified" most documents are probably equivalent to work email for them. Should the information contained in a "work email" be kept secret from "competitors", sure but most people aren't viewing the information contained in the work email as trade secrets.
Technically even down as low as municipalities can have classifed information presented in something as simple as emails. Something most people consider simple like an email about a new construction in city is really important to keep between the entities involved until it happens. Classified whatever is way to common and way to easy to misuse.
@@purplemamba5510 You're talking about confidential which isn't exactly the same as classified. Towns don't have classified information, but they can choose to keep some information as confidential.
While searching an individual's residence might be overkill this repeated pattern shows a lack of oversight or standardized procedure regarding the transfer of presidential power which therefore should be reformed either by executive action or legislative authority.
Not exactly the same potential impact, but I've seen the "secret formula" for a major brewing company. It's just a bunch of numbers (concentrations, temperatures, etc.) in a spreadsheet.
It almost seems like when people leave office, or maybe even more frequently for longer appointments, there should just be a regular audit process that goes through and does a search to clear out/collect classified documents. They'd have to come up with something like a fine so people don't just get lax about it, but it seems to be a common enough issue to maybe build in a protocol to deal with this more systemically
true but also sadly and I hate to come to his defense, they often deal with so many documents on a daily basis that stuff getting misplaced seems like it happens a lot more than we realize, so yes there should 100% be an audit process or something to at least remind people to check. Because things can easily leave someone's mind when they are doing many things at once.
In a previous job, I once found a binder full of documents that had been accidentally left behind at our office by a government contractor (who was there for a meeting). I knew which Department he had been working for, so I called them. The police were not dispatched, but they paid for expedited courier service to return the material ASAP. If memory serves, the documents were not so much Secret as relating to ongoing litigation, but still not something to be left just lying around. I have no idea what happened to the contractor responsible.
I work in a hotel , you'd be surprised how often this happens . Ive seen classified documents left in my lobby for anyone and everyone to see. We send it back through certified mail .
Question. I remember Trump making a law that says officials who mishandle classified documents can never run for president. Does this mean Biden and Trump won't be on the docket in 2024? Because that would be amazing.
Each state controls (through legislation) who is on their ballot. It’s unlikely that any federal law would be able to bar states from putting someone on the ballot.
That never happened lol, he might have blathered on about it in one of his rallies but that isn't law, nor do I think it was ever even proposed in a bill. Electoral requirements are codified by the Constitution, so any changes can only happen through amendments (see the 22nd, which mandated 2 term limits)
We have terrible document control. Classified docs should be handled like library books. Check them out and, if you don’t return them, somebody comes looking for them…
With current technology it can be even simpler than that. Zero reason for any of these documents to be printed. Any data that needs to be taken somewhere for review should be stored on a biometrically encrypted key that automatically erases the encryption hash after 30-days rendering the key and the data on it useless. The problem is we hire people that are 70+ years old to office that can't even figure out how to set a clock on a car radio.
It might be something that’s attainable. But people need to use these documents on a daily basis. Trying to create a very strict system for every document mean some people can’t really do their jobs anymore or at least not efficiently.
Honestly, after Biden’s docs I was thinking the US needs to investigate Pence and Obama for anymore docs. And after Pence’s docs were revealed, I believe Obama also needs to be investigated immediately to get some security assurances that this isn’t a trend that came from previous administrations. This is really bad, like god how does this happen? At least Pence is cooperating so far and returned his docs willingly and on his own initiative
They should investigate Bush, Cheney, Gore, and Clinton, too. I vote we leave Carter alone tho. Let the man keep building houses and hunting Guinea worms in peace, hes almost 100
Tbh I think anyone who plausibly could have docs should be doing due diligence and the fed should be searching ATM. Hell, let's send someone to check Jimmy carter's stuff. I don't even mean this in a sarcastic way. It's clearly an issue and I feel like it's probable for this to accidentally happen but the fact Biden had stuff that was 50 years old tells me that it's been happening for a while
This happens through a weird combination of the nature of the job and the fact that basically everything in DC gets a classified rating. As long as they turn the docs over after discovery, I really dont care much. I've moved cross country, and I still find random bits of documentation from high school and college.
This is like listening to Trump Admin era Devin, when events were changing so quickly that we could almost view Devin's stress-induced aneurism forming in real time
I actually had some, but just like partial paitent reports that I never actually shredded not like government secrets Well and the uranium and military intelegence remote access to private government networks and admin credentials.... now the fun part is figuring out if I'm kidding or not (hint my dad's a nuclear engineer)
Pretty sure the "abstracted" clause means allowing the documents to be summarized, which allows you to return them but still give the info to someone else. They didn't have spy cameras and stuff when this was passed.
I think they know what it means and were pretending for the sake of a joke. A really lame joke. Because it's pretty obvious what is meant and they're lawyers, they know how to look up a definition.
There are two meanings of "abstracted" when it comes to classified documents. The first is exactly as you said. However, the other meaning is somewhat similar to what Spencer joked about and within the context (being lost or destroyed) may be the intended meaning in this case. That is, abstracting a document can also mean cutting it up and reducing it physically to what the person doing the abstracting considers relevant, like when mommy cuts up a newspaper article on the little league game to keep only parts where little Tommy is mentioned. This second definition results in the physical destruction of the original document.
@@andrewsuryali8540 just thinking historically when the law was made the more general meaning makes way more sense, and I also realize now that they probably were joking and I didn't quite pick up on it.
Pretty huge difference between "honest mistake, let me hand that right back to you" which doesn't tend to be prosecuted or is treated much more lightly than the guy who keeps refusing to turn stuff over and tries to hide it from NARA and the DOJ, then insists it's his right to have (and sell) said classified documents.
> _"Pretty huge difference between..."_ I dunno about you, but as far as I'm concerned, a race to the bottom isn't something to pick favorites on in order to justify continued support for "my team". inb4 anyone else thinking _"so-called centrists and the whole 'both sides are bad' thing just make excuses for the worst"_ Oh I'm definitely saying that one side is ABSOLUTELY more morally corrupt than the other side. That said, the sides I'm thinking of are "American Presidents" versus "Leaders from a significant portion of the rest of the world".
Literally does not matter when it comes to handling classified information. The problem is the handling of the documents, not the political theater afterwards.
@@nickfifteen If you think most of the rest of the world is distinctly better at keeping track of classified documents and distinctly less corrupt than US leaders, you live in a selection biased reality.
As more and more came out that there were documents everywhere, and the Archives literally asked "Hey everyone who's a former president or VP, can you double check your stuff?" - all I had in my head at that point was the Benny Hill Yackity Sax song. Like... how does this happen? If my library book is two seconds late I'm getting a ruder phone call than "please"
Now I want a political comedy broadway style musical to come out of this, complete with the disgruntled NARA assistant going "Is there anyone here who DOESN'T have top secret documents locked in a filing cabinet somewhere?!?" Cut to all the politicians just nervously shuffling their feet and looking down.
It really does make you wonder if it isn't the Archives fault. Can't wait to see how many former officials have to turn in folders they recently found. I feel the Carter joke is going to come true.
That’s so cool you mentioned atomic clocks! My grandpa used to design atomic time standards and precision quartz oscillators, and the field of precision timing is so underrated. The physics are fascinating as are the mechanisms.
As a programmer, I hate your grandpa… (just kidding. dealing with time standards is hard in software because of the intrinsic problems with timekeeping, not necessarily because the people who made these standards didn't know what they are doing)
At this point maybe the FBI should sweep the houses of all current & former government officials. Also maybe congress should review the process for classifying stuff and try to classify less stuff. Hard to say which is less likely to happen.
From brief DOE experience, documents are immediately considered classified and are then declassified through a long and annoying processes. So that’s why there’s so many classified docs. I totally agree that politicians need to have their houses checked for the documents and more documents need to be declassified.
You know... it seems to me they could have a system where if someone has classified documents, they have to present a classified documents card, and then someone stamps the documents with a time period out, and they have to return the documents to the place they got the documents FROM, or they suffer penalties. I'm scratching my head, wondering if we have any sort of system like that already set up. hmmmmm.
That's called Line of Custody, and every facility with security either private or otherwise tends to have a checklist/list of people who scanned their access card into areas and forms for who has possession of things known as a 'handreceipt.' With classified material you also need special training to be a carrier and move those documents from one facility to another. This was a case of line of custody was broken and idiocy because once classified material is taken you better damn well always have that shit in your sight or hand until you transport it to the other location its authorized to be in.
@@Mortenthiar okay....seems to have some cracks in the system though if so many people have taken home documents, and in Biden's case, he had some for decades.
It's very clear that we need to completely overhaul the way that classified documents are handled. Seems everyone who has access takes them home. We need to have like some sort of library system, so that we know who has what at any given time.
the problem isn't one of lack of procedures or training (although the latter may help). The problem is that those procedures interfere with the work of 'important' people who don't want to wait for someone to sign the proper request forms in order to handle the classified documents. Impatient people also tend to be really creative at finding loop holes that allow them to skip all that bother. And when personell is easily replaced there's no one willing to risk their job by telling their boss that he needs to follow a procedure that literally does nothing except slow down his work. also : how does one classify those records ?
Me, having just done my annual security training where they instill the fear of God on us with the punishments for mishandling classified info: "Huh..."
Ex Navy Radioman here (1980-84 BMU2). I held a Secret clearance and as we were taught just because I had that clearance I had "a need to know." Also we had to sign out documents and where to read/study them in secured areas. This crap thats going on would surely get me a Courts Marshall and thrown in the brig if I done stuff like this.
yup but you were just an employee whereas the politicians are the bosses so like most things in life the rules don't apply to the boss. that's our country.
I'm a special education teacher. In response to this, and now Pence, I took a plain filing folder and a wrote in chunky permanent marker "CLASSIFIED" on it. I've taken to leaving it in various places around my classroom. It's filled with random junk like the recipe for salt dough, a few recipes we have made in class, a few drawings my students have made, etc.
I think it's worth emphasizing again the levels of classification and the significant difference between "willfully" cooperating with FBI investigations rather than obstructing them. I don't think the general public quite understands the severity of the risk involved in having Top Secret-SCI documents improperly handled, not just at a private residence but at a golf resort with far more foot traffic than the general household. TS-SCI aren't your typical classified documents. They are among the highest clearance. We're talking topics such as means and methods for intelligence gathering, launch codes, etc. These are documents that should never have even left the briefing room let alone the initial secure facility. Biden's negligence, while not grossly negligent in the legal sense, is not good, but it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what we know about Trump's investigation.
My grandmother used to work for the government. Growing up I was stressed to understand how important it is that you make sure you understand the classification level of any documents you take from your place of work. Maybe it's a government job. Maybe it's corporate. Either way, you don't want to get caught taking home something that your employer deems critically important because that is how you get slammed for espionage, whether seditious or industrial. In either case, you basically risk ruining any future gainful employment no matter what your work history and you risk ruining whatever legacy you may have otherwise built for yourself
@@zyeborm Even if that is the case, Biden was VP at the time. Pence was VP at the time. Trump was no longer president at the time. So your argument is a bit of a moot point, is it not? Also, my comment had nothing to do with the specific situations, but rather as a general rule.
I'm at a lost of how every public library can keep track of millions of books for many years but our government can't have a similar check-in/check-out system.
Because classified and top secret documents are not catalogued like a library system for the sole purpose of security. It’s kinda pointless to store classified documents only to have them all catalogued on a single document or file. Now what could just be a spillage of a few documents is now the potential to be a MASSIVE LEAK of ALL classified documents, & you know have names of who has access to classified documents.
It’s not so much the fact that sometimes mistakes are made, it’s how people respond and react to being caught that matters more. You can say “ooops, I will cooperate completely and return everything immediately” or you can lie, lie, lie, give a middle finger, and then lie some more.
I mean... I had to note when I checked out documents from my college library..... and they yell at you and withold your diploma until the fines/items are resolved.... How the hell is it a thing that politicians can simply say "oh, hey, Timmy, I am goanna look over the Thorium Reactor plan we have for the construction under that island we found in that parallel dimension." "ok Boss have fun, it's the honor system on returning it though!"
Because classified documents are not library books. When the President has a Cabinet meeting, the written agenda and all other documents pertaining to it are classified. When there is a Joint Chiefs of Staff meeting, the written information from that meeting is classified. Financial documentation, lists of names of people involved in different activities, schedules for projects are all classified documents. The majority of classified documents aren’t coming from some central library/repository. They are generated in the course of the work being done by the President and other officials on a regular basis.
@@courtney-ray You sorta missed the point. Interoffice requests are part and parcel of *every* multi department organization, if someone on the security council wants info from someone in the FBI, there will be an information release request to go along with them asking. If an object is in a folder marked "classified" it likely came from a source authorized to provide those folders, it's not like they can print them out at home, then print out a folder, with correct label/stamp. Things are kept track of, hell if nothing else, as no classified documents are to be destroyed without proper record keeping, they should know how many of the bloody folders they have handed out at a certain location. Record keeping is a lot easier to do than people want to accept it to be, you just have to be utterly a***retentive about such things. No one needs to know *what* goes in the folders, but the number they hand out and to which groups should be pretty easy to keep track of, even if it they do it behind a fireplace, down the stairs, past the evidence of the UFO landing, behind a two-key system on a Commodore 64 that does not even know what the internet is.
@@courtney-ray Sure but the Presidents etc... have personal staff members to keep track of their work schedules and all of these notes. It really shouldn't be that difficult to have some staff person keep track of what docs these politicians have taken home and then ensure they are returned.
How the heck can SCI documents be missing? They are numbered and signed out, controlled and inventoried. In all the SCIFs I was in for my years in the USAF we knew exactly where every document was, we inventoried all the time and were inspected / inventoried. - MSGT USAF (Ret)
@@complexeddrummer If we attach an RFID tag to every SCI document, as was proposed in a 2017 academic paper - "RFID technology based solution for classified document management" - then it might help.
The fun thing about this stuff with classified documents, it's that they are classified. Like, they might contain completely unimportant/irrelevant/unusuable information in them, but they have the stamp, so it seems like you have to judge the whole process disregarding the contents. Like, imagine having some grandma's secret cake recipe, but with an official classified stamp on it, and having to go through all these searches. That could be a hilarious comedy movie, lol
The thing is sometimes it's classified because of how they got it. Like imagine if grandma was a dictator and only told the secret cake recipe to three people. If it gets out she has three good guesses on whose a Spy'.
'Abstracted' would presumably refer to transferring the information contained within said documents into another format for purposes that would otherwise violate the other standards. Like describing or paraphrasing the contents into another work for publication, or posting that you found a document and refusing to share the document but still describing its contents to the degree that the classification is violated
At this point I think someone should search Monticello to see whether Jefferson left any classified documents there. Seriously, the systems for handling classified documents should be reviewed. I have a friend who's a retired navy captain who says that in that service, classified docs are tracked when they are removed from secure storage. They do weekly checks of docs that have been checked out to see whether they're where they're supposed to be, and to see whether they should be returned to storage. It seems we do a better job of tracking library books than of tracking classified documents.
Agent trying to find classified information: That's impossible. Perhaps the archives are incomplete? Ex-officials: "If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist!" We're on our way to the establishment of Sith Holocrons
Lol they're going to find out this was actually quite the habit of taking documents home among past presidents VPs and directors secretaries and members of special committees. Simply one does not have the time to peruse such things in just one location
What gets me is the absence of document control by whoever is in charge of documents. Any library has a system to check things in and out, and know who has them.
Libraries have a system of control on the books and papers they have catalogued. The "Library" "DOES NOT CREATE" any documents. The government in Power does that. From the Cuban Missile crisis(Kennedy years in the 60's) to Watergate (Nixon); Vietnam(I am not sure) Cambodia(I am not sure); Ukraine/Russia war involvement(Biden) the mishandling of the plague C-19(Trump) missing documents as none were created between Trump&Putin; missing documents between Trump & N.K. as none were created(either he tore them up or ate them), Stormy Daniels & Trump and illegal payments; illegal theft of campaign finances (Trump), Lying to the public about everything (33,000 times is a lot of lying) Trump...9-11(Bush), the Iraq Invasion (Bush) the Afghanistan Invasion (Bush). the cleanup of 9-11 site and disposal of remnants without proper investigation procedures(Bush) . These documents are "Created" by the doofus in the WH. It is only after their time there that the documents become the property of NARA for historical purposes. It can't be catalogued & stored if it has not been written up yet. . Now you know. A library cannot catalogue a book they have not received a copy yet. It is the same deal.
These classified docs do not necessarily start at the National Archive. For example, minutes from a meeting between the President and the Joint Chiefs would probably be classified, and a copy would go to the National Archive after the meeting.
Sadly the former administration left a lot of executive branch agencies understaffed (as opposed to the Obama Administration which was forced to leave a lot of federal judge positions open because certain senators refused to hold hearings for nominees) including NARA which means that a lot of information that should have been tracked by the National archives got misplaced/misfiled simply because the office that signed it out to an individual was suddenly vacant.
Well, the thing is if you know classified information and write on a paper at home, you JUST made NEW classified information. I'm not sure if that's what happened here, but I'm just pointing out that that system wouldn't account for that. (Although it is a good suggestion that should be made).
I remember when I worked in the energy industry during one of the shale booms and competition was incredibly tight. One remote work colleague got fired because they had maps of prospective drill sites hanging on their wall during a zoom call with our own company because it was "need to know" information only for their department and the higher ups said if they were hanging there on a normal zoom call, they were probably up there whenever that person would have video calls with people outside the company and it was a risk of competitors finding out where the company was targeting. Seen people get fired because company documents showed up in their personal facebook selfies, etc. Amazing that private businesses have stricter standards and hold people accountable vs. the way politicians get treated with kid gloves despite breaking all the rules. Had a family member that was fairly high clearance and worked at the Pentagon and they said if you got caught screwing around with classified material, didn't matter if it was one page of a document you left out somewhere by accident, you were in some pretty heavy crap with major consequences.
It's wild to me how individuals in politics are treated in regards to mistreatment of classified documents. Any government contractor/employee that deal with classified documents that committed the same offense would immediately lose their job, be subject to criminal charges, and lose their security clearance immediately.
@@oliversteiner9019 I agree it's unbelievable in Trump's case too. If both Biden and Trump are doing this, I wouldn't be surprised if this was happening with other politicians or elsewhere in the government.
I just want to comment on the fantastic shots of you cooking and dicing vegetables in a full suit and tie, but with an apron. LOL... love your stuff. Thanks for doing what you do! :)
Might need to open up your walls just to check that they're not lined with some top secret documents. Y'know, some houses are lined with asbestos, some are lined with that pink panther stuff, some have top secret documents. (shrug) Who knows.
Despite living in Australia all my life, not owning a house and having never touched a classified document, I now fear that the FBI may find some classified documents in my garage.
Wasn't there a story of hunter using some of those documents in his correspondence with Ukraine. Either way this is insane they should check everyone who was ever in office, and take it all. They should follow up after leaving to make sure no one has shit. Solved.
Should Biden be investigated to see if he handed any of these documents off to Lichtenstein or wherever? Yes. Is there a difference between "hey, I found these, do you want them back" and "I don't have any documents, and even if I did they're my personal property, and even if they aren't what are you gonna do about it"? Also yes. Is it concerning that for about five years the government not only didn't know where the documents were, but also didn't realize they'd lost the things? VERY YES!
This makes me wonder about academia. I used to work in nuclear physics on the descendant of the Manhattan project dataset. Post START it was heavily censored, but it was the same research. We had to get a classification to work in the lab. We had higher grade locks and bars on the windows, but not much else in terms of security measures. We used to pass documents around like it was nothing, even over unencrypted email. I even gave a presentation at the Student Union at one point for anyone who just walked in the door.
Having been an elected representative before, I can tell you, its damn near impossible to keep track of all the documents you get and their status. Now I was only a member of a district pairlament, but I already got 100s of pages a week of documents. Most of them public, but some not. Some are temporarily classified. Some are permanently classified. And its genuinely insane to try and keep track of this stuff. In the US federal government this goes even further. Since the espionage act doesnt actually care about classification, this means, that some classified documents can be kept and some unclassified information cant. As unclassified information can also fall under the espionage act. Then sometimes the notes you take become classified, if they are taken on a classified subject in a meeting the public isnt involved in. But then it still depends, if the knowledge is actually illegal to possess. Since just having classified documents doesnt really matter. What matters is, if the information on documents is not public knowledge, and can disadvantage the US, if passed on to third parties. And thats just a huge mess. If you are in a pairlament, and you constantly have classified information thrown at you, some insignificant and not dangerous to release, but still classified. And in other cases being in meetings that exclude the public, where you take notes, which in turn can be classified, or fall under the espionage act. Its just a mess of a system, that doesnt adequately work with the reality of actually working in a pairlament, or its administration.
Sounds like the process for reviewing documents needs some revision. Even I have top secret documents in my kitchen I rest my phone, keys and coffee mug on when I come home. Someone needs to ask these back once checked out.
What's TRULY HEARTBREAKING is that, NOT A SINGLE major news corporation has reported on this subject as clearly, and throughouly as this channel. Or news media is failing us...
@@eli-bt4he um, no. He waited, as he always does, to have enough information to do the video with depth and quality. the mar-a-lago had been going on for months before the actual raid.
@@eli-bt4he um, what are you smoking? It must be very powerful stuff. I mean this video broke it all down in great detail. It's clear Biden didn't remember he had the docs. While trump intentionally stole his, and refused to give them back. Huge difference. Hell, even Pence was more cooperative than trump was...
I figured you'd cover this! I'm in the same camp - I'm not going to treat this issue any differently just because the man doing it is on ""my"" side of the aisle. Don't keep papers that belong to someone else! And return them on time when they're asked for! And ESPECIALLY don't try to fight it. That's the law. Really rankles my "professional organizer" senses... Papers ARE one of the hardest things to keep organized. What this whole situation shows us is that even the government at the highest levels needs to examine their organization systems from time to time, eh? Make sure they work and are being followed and all that. Like a kid with a huge plushie collection. "Do you still need this? Then where does it live? Now go put it there" :P
Personally I think the executive branch needs to rework how they handle classified material, because in the DOD that shit is kept pretty much lock and key.
I was thinking the same thing, like are we just getting better at finding documents in places they're not supposed to be and it just happens all the time, or are we just recently having very negligent government officials. Edit: I wrote this before the video ended and Mike Pence also had classified documents!?! Maybe it's a recent lack of protocol in the white house but I'm starting to think this just happens all the time
Partially true. Every congressperson and significant official reads secret stuff at their desks at home. Poor record keeping, and keeping track of where all the many classified articles are and getting them back has been revealed to be a problem. That needs to be handled.
Not to mention Pence's estate also found classified documents. I think at this poi t there is enough of an issue that it warrants a sort of Q&A team to ensure classified documents are nit being intentionally or unintentionally held by outgoing administration staff.
Honestly, it almost sounds to me like there's a relaxed culture in high government where not enough weight is given to proper storage and handling of important secret documents. Maybe this is just a problem of an unprofessional working environment when it comes to stuff like this.
Could've summarized it more succinctly by saying "there's a relaxed culture in high government where not enough weight is given to properly handling the job".
Also doesn't help when the majority of people in high positions of government are between 50 and 80 years old. So many of them aren't even internet literate either.
Seems fair. At least his lawyers notified the National Archives instead of hiding them. Not to mention they were mostly locked up. But if I did the same thing as a NASA employee, I’d be in SO MUCH trouble
I really appreciate this video. I think one conclusion is that high level officials aren't as careful as they should be when it comes to classified documents. I can very much see a situation for presidents where they wish to avoid the inconvenience of only going over the documents at work and they want to be able to go over them from home.
I would argue that not knowing the location of classified documents would count as them being lost, or if someone knew that they were holding classified documents in an unsecure space then they are not properly notifying.
"If they knew" is the key there. There's not amazing evidence that Biden knew he had classified information in an unsecure space. Without that knowledge, you cannot prove criminal intent. If you lack criminal intent, then you only have the gross negligence standard. By our current knowledge, Biden, Pence and Gonzales didn't know they had classified info in an unsecure space. It is possible that further evidence could contradict that in the case of the ex-VPs (the Gonzales matter is settled), but that distinction is important here.
@@forgottenfamily if they didn't know then it means at some point they lost control over classified documents. I had a clearance in the military and it was made abundantly clear that bringing classified materials out of the secure area (including notes, scratch paper, anything) would result in loss of clearance and possibly jail time. I don't know why we keep using kid gloves when it comes to the leader of the free world.
Biden "Please search and find them all." Pence "Oh Lord, did I do that?" Trump " Mine, all mine! I declassified them with my mind! My precious! MINE!!!!"
Pretty much how it's looking. The big difference between Trump compared Biden and Pence is the willingness to let the government come and get the documents. It's almost like Trump may have something to hide in those documents that Pence and Biden don't. Or at least they know how to play the game better and by being compliment with these documents any others they may be trying to hide may not be noticed.
@@-ThatGuy- Something to hide in the documents? Um, these documents are not unique, they are all archived. Keeping a copy doesn't mean you're hiding its contents.
