Both. I think the websites should ask customer for what they want and give couple them couple options. That way we could still have alot of bikes and it wouldn't be as confusing.
If you look at automotive or tools (say hi to Si👋) you would find bike brands don't have that much of models. But there are definetely too few big brands and proper conglomerates besides PON and too many independent or seemingly independent manufacturers with shareholders in something way outside cycling or sport in general. Also, models are updated too often by too small of a margin.
Confusing. I'm trying to get into cycling again after a long time and anytime I visit a manufacturers website/shop I don't know what's what. Maybe I'm too much of a simpleton, but feels as complicated as ordering at starbucks.
Lesser models will reduce the costs and hopefully that shows off in the prices. If they also sell bare frames, people still can build a bike with the groupset and wheels they prefer.
Thank you Ollie for your proper technical and scientific evaluation of the undyed bib shorts at 14:30. You had the courage to utter what everyone was thinking.
Bike brands should lower the price for good entry level bikes and lower the price for mid tier bikes. Whenever i try to introduce biking for someone they all say the same, i would love to start but its to expensive. If the entry level to good bikes are lower more will start biking and then start buying the more expensive bikes. 15k for a bike is just ridiculous
It can be an expensive sport to get into. Have you ever recommended secondhand bikes to your buddies? A video like this might help 👉ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W6jDWaruzZ0.html
@@gcntech yea, a second hand bike in Sweden is around 1k. My friends and I are in our thirties. I've been riding for years but for someone who just bought a house or is expecting a child it's still expensive if you just want to try it out and people would rather start with a new bike than an old one.
@@buggen819 I got in the industry in 2005. Entry level road bikes from all the big manufacturers were $700-800. They all have a $999.999 bike now, and they're significantly better than those $700 bikes. That's not much inflation in nearly 20yrs. They also barely made any money on those bikes 20yrs ago and make even less now
Back in the day, when a man wanted a new suit, he went to a tailor, got measured up, chose the fabric, colour etc. and ended up with a bespoke product. Today, bespoke bikes are way beyond the financial means of us mere mortals, but the industry could help out here by taking the sting out of changing the stem length, adding spacers to the head tube or even offering a selection of saddles or handlebars to try out as part of the deal.
I guess I’m a bit old school in that I work with a local shop and spec out the frame I want and all the specific components to get exactly the build content I desire. Definitely not the route for a beginner or even for most seasoned cyclists but when you know what you want and get exactly that, it makes for a splendid ride. Not something I do often but on average, about once every 10 years. By no means all the bikes, just the halo ride in the stable. Have nothing against ordering a bike direct to consumer as that is how we got into gravel riding/racing with Niner rides this past year. And a ”custom build” approach does not have to be expensive… current build in the works is a CAAD13, my first custom was a CAAD4 from 25+ years ago and I just donated that bike to make room for this incoming ride…. The most important thing is to get out and ride when you can and enjoy every moment you do get.
@@wallygator2471it would be nice if people could just start off with a bike that fits. you know? instead of everyone being forced to ride 42cm bars and 172.5mm cranks
nice discussion of the phenomenon of choice overload as it applies to the bike industry. Good to see the big manufacturers are starting to see this as a problem
I surely hope that bike companies don’t cut sizes as a way to save money. As a short person, one of the reasons it took me so long to start cycling is because a too large a bike causes me a lot of pain. I’d try to ride my husband’s large bike and end up with a massive headache. Turns out I’m an XS
i think we should have more options on the frame size and shape but other than that i don't think we need many type of similar bikes and i think they could even use like ai to help people pick good frame size and shape so it is simpler for the customer.
also smaller road bike tires would be nice too. for me 28 inch is too big. for me 24 inch is ideal but the really aren't any good road bike tires that are that size except ones that are like 23mm wide which is way too thin :D
About the saddle angle: when you step off the bike when you have to pee, it should flow immediately. If not: tilt your saddle a bit forwards till that problem is solved. It is cool if some jurks thinks your bike looks cool, but it is essential to have your bicycle set up right for you.
for someone riding in the Netherlands disc brakes are useless. I'm now struggling to find a bike with rim breaks and decent components. Really hope rim breaks stay around
Advancements in technology now enable aero bikes to be lighter and lightweight bikes to be more aerodynamic. Simplifying options could reduce costs for brands, ultimately benefiting customers. Lower prices would make purchasing easier for newcomers and those seeking their second bike. While I'm interested in a disc brake bike, the current pricing is a deterrent. I’ll stick to my trusty rim brakes for now.
I am an American, and I was fortunate to spend 3 months living in England long ago. I think Ollie's American impressions are funny in general. However, I literally laughed out loud when Alfonso said, "You're just gonna make people hate us," to which Ollie replied without hesitation, "I know" and you both laughed with satisfaction. Then again, an English friend said I have a very British sense of humour, which I took as a great compliment, so I may not be the typical American viewer. (Apologies to Alex for making yet another joke about viewers' identity crisis regarding him.)
I think more modularity of components would be very good for consumers. E.g., if you don't know what you want, you buy the midrange hybrid or road bike, and spec it out with the components you want as you grow as a cyclist. Shimano is moving this way with the cues line I guess! This way you stick with the same bike but you're able to spec it out Just So, as you understand what you want. Then big brands can offer custom builds etc for some customers/as it is cost effective for them. So for consumers there are two options: buy the mid-range, good enough bike (for newbies to cycling), and slowly upgrade over time. This keeps the number of options - and decision paralysis - low for the average consumer. Then you could offer custom bikes (selecting frame + components separately) for a small fee. This would be cheaper and more eco friendly as it'd reduce fit-parts (wrong width handlebars) going to landfill, and better for the consumer as they get exactly what they want, if they know what that is. Don't know much about factory production lines, but it could also reduce stock requirements for the companies involved, as they'd build up fancy bikes from stock/existing parts in the shop that would also be used for repairs etc. This would be great for enthusiasts, as the decision making is both more modular (what level groupset, what size gears etc), but also simpler (no need to trawl the internet to find exactly what you're after).
I believe bikes should not be prebuilt and the bike shop should make it to your requirements or desire ( if you have the €£¥$). I paid over 10K for my Specialized and I could not chose any components. I could pay more to change them but then I was stuck with the original equipment. I agree with you guys 110%. Cheers.
When I buy a bike the first thing I do is replace tyres, saddle and rear sprocket, so I have three things I don't use right away. And give me some pedals is an option. I will likely replace the stem as well because my legs are relatively longer than most men and my torso shorter. So a casual bike fit will always give me a too long reach, but if I get a smaller model I am stretching the maximum seat post height.
Tour magazine do test with the dummie. It is just the waist down part as it has less margin for error (position wise) if they use it without the torso.
Some things bike brands can do: Drop multiple axle standards and put through axles on all bikes, then you can reduce the stock of wheels. Only setup complete bikes up to mid-upper tier groupsets, and make framesets more accessible, or even enable build your own bike options available more global - people who know what they want will most likely want the latest top spec components and contacts points (more of what Canyon do). Make framesets more customizable, ie, support both headset cable routing AND downtube cable routing. Create more industry standards, ie, aero seat post profile, aero bar direct mounts, aero stem spacers, etc, so that 3rd party vendors can make the accessories while bike brands innovate around the standards.
Pricing has definitely been a pain. I am from the Netherlands and we got little to no hills and mountains. However the pricing is so crazy that I am forced to choose between a Grizl 5 (AL), Endurace 6 and a TREK Checkpoint (gravel) and a TREK Mudane or however its called. Simply cause the grail is too expensive and secondhand is just as impossible to afford for the grail. Choosing has become so hard due to the yeah.. too much diversity in the market. Im an experienced cycler as ive been doing it since I was 3 and it really hurts me to see the market as it is. Just give us people who ride / tour for fun and not per se for speed what we want. Carbon should also be way more accesible to people not into actual racing. Great video guys! Always fun watching. Learned so much already.
Hi GCN, thanks a lot for the show. It’s been (and still is) a great introduction to road cycling for me. You’ve mentioned that the ability to have multiple options for contact points (saddle, stem or crank length, etc…) is something that should be offered more often. It’s definitely great and you get a bike that exactly fits you. Some manufacturers offer such options for their whole line (Origine Cycle, Shimano Neutral Service’s bike provider, being one of those). Smaller manufacturers can afford assembling on demand, I’m not sure that most of the bigger ones can. So I guess that would not help reducing stocks. PS: See, you can be both French AND pretentious ^^
Small correction needed, Tour Magazine is not testing the bike alone, they test the bike with a half body dummy that includes rotating legs to be as realistic as possible.
Bike brands need to share frames / research like some car manufacturers do imo. Entry level cost of bikes should be rebased too as the whole range is too expensive. Dare I say it, ditch the disc brakes too. Disc for mountain, rim for road, as I don’t think the masses will services them. Servicing a car is annoying as it is, bikes should be simple and easy
Soooo refreshing to hear GCN commentary that equally endorses (Orbea) and may call into question (white shorts, metal bidons) products that they might be sponsored by.... Keep telling us what you really think and I will keep showing up!
Direct to consumer brands have an advantage because you can have a fixed standard colour options, and build up to demand - reducing stocked complete bikes going unsold and only ordering the add-on components required.
I'd be happy if you could buy the Framesets and just put on your (used?) groupset easily... Having a hard time finding a reasonable prized Gravel Frameset I'd like... but I've got several Groupsets at my disposal and don't to buy another one I don't need with a bike...
There is choice-bloat. TREK offers 15 different version of its Domane endurance bike (4th generation), priced between $1,000-$13,000. And they still sell several Generation 3 options.
I have a tech question regarding tyre pressure. I live at 900m altitude and when I use the silca tyre pressure calculator it gives me a value (5.2 bar for example) that I can never reach(max 4 bar for example ). I've looked for more information online but I can't find any. How much will altitude effect tyre pressure
I used to work as bike a mechanic in my youth, "the manual cars - rim brake" analogy doesn't work for me, stick shift is real fun, rim brakes are s****t at stopping.
In line with your suggestion that less options are better, A visit to my LBS yielded a huge amount of unused floor space. They're a Trek dealer and are not purchasing bikes as there are too many options in the road bike categories. Domaine = 52 SKUs They cannot afford to carry an entire line.
I believe tour magazine test with mannequin legs at multiple points of rotation. They don't use an upper torso, because it introduces to much variance.
9:50 i dont know about this one. when were talking about making it easier for customers to chose a bike and reduce the amount of overwhelming options i think it would be conterproductive to increase the number of options on the contact points. i think that would only be an advantage for enhausiasts that have dug into their personal best fit, which also only benefits them cause they dont have to spend extra time or money to find the fitting piece and sell the original one. if a person that is currently overwhelmed even by the amount of frame sizes, i dont think theyll be better off chosing singular parts. therefore i think the science on what fits best for most that the bike brands have already researched is the way to go.
I welcome the smaller 'menu' as things have been spinning out of control lately. I mean we have had road bikes, MTBs, and commuter bikes for ages, but is gravel bikes, ice bikes, grass bikes, snow bikes, headwind bikes and downhill bikes possibly creating a requirement that isn't really there, and at the same time putting an enormous pressure on the logistics and through that the cost of a decent bike.
Not so long ago i got a not expensive gravel bike from a local brand. There's 2x9 transmission. I like that setup but would like to replace some components to higher quality ones but I can't. All options i have is Alivio, which is pretty low quality these days. Luckily I could find new old stock Sram PG-980 caseette. Lightweight, long lasting, perfect for me but very rare at this point. And I'm not gonna upgrade all the groupset. It would cost like all my bike. One of the reasons this industry going bad is lack of AFFORDABLE options.
The big brands are now having a sweat on people aint buying and keeping their bikes i rode a sportive last weekend and couldn't believe how many were riding rim brake bikes including me. The bike companies need to reduce prices substantially instead of being greedy and start having some empathy for everyone on a bike or looking to start the hobby/sport.
25:48 Yay, you rang the bell on my bike! 😍 Actually, the (old) Elbe tunnel has been built in the early 1900s to get workers to and from the docks on the other side of the Elbe. You can go down only by elevator or staircases, there are four huge elevators on either side even suited for cars (!) and two for pedestrians only. There has been a period where cars were allowed through there, but since the two tubes are extremely narrow current cars wouldn't even be able to fit through without scraping the raised curbs. Because of that cars will likely never be allowed to go down there, nowadays it's pedestrian and cyclists only. 🤗 The second tube is currently undergoing restorations to make it as nice as the tube you can see in the picture.
@@gcntechNope, I live and work on the outskirts of Hamburg. Every now and then I use the tunnel so I had the idea of going there early Sunday morning to get an empty-ish tunnel for the pics.
I think what GCN overlooks is the option of different geometries, designed for different body types and physical abilities. The example of Pinarello having one model and that's all that's needed, might be fine for pros and people with great flexibility, but it definitely doesn't suit everyone. The fact they mention Trek then only Madone and Emonda shows they have too much focus on racing and the pros, because the Domane is the "relxaed geometry" model and is by far Trek's highest selling road bike.
UCI rules should be like F1. If the item you create fits into the rules for the season… it’s in. But then the rules can change for the next season if required.
7:55 Like cars with touch screen systems that we’re stuck with because of car journos crying for more tech, bike journos who’ve pushed the market to be ignorant of decent rim brakes and now the people who are new to bicycling (95% of new-bike-sales) are scared into getting bicycles with motorcycle brakes just to slowly putt around on flat roads on sunny days. There’s no way you dorks don’t see the cycle.
With the new Shimano 105 I don’t really see the point of the Ultegra. It used to be the best value. Now it’s just cheaper than Dura Ace, but not as cheap or any better than 105.
i havent done research on it but hasnt pinarello released quite a few more different models lately??? the was just one dogma before, now theres multiple
They use a set of dummy legs as the legs have the greatest interaction with the aero of the frame. Change in torso size and position variation cannot account for as much drag as the frame so very easy to be misleading with the results.
Please tell me how a STEEL water bottle will out live a plastic water bottle? What does steel do when it is in water for prolonged periods which plastic doesn't? I'm not saying plastic is better, but in tis case......erm.
Nah been watching GCN and all these biking channels for years. I’ve kept a record of the patterns and the industry has been stale for decades. Same same tryna sell us the same bikes to ordinary people at dentist disposable income prices.
#askGCNtech I have an older ULTEGRA rear shifter (circa 2007) on our Cannondale tandem that sometimes skips as I'm shifting. As in, it doesn't click and change the gear, I might have to click it 2 or 3 times to get it to click and shift. Can shifters be repaired, or do they have to be replaced? It's too complicated for me to take apart. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Alex zoning out as Ollie waffles on about bike brands and Ollie trying to dissappear behind his cap as Alex misses his mouth and spills water on his top, doesn't miss a beat and carries on oblivious, classic 😂
If i was them i would offer the same things on paper but only make them when someone orders it. Maybe onock 10 together whenever an order comes in sp the6 arnt stuck with anything unsold
Is part of the problem the UCI insisting the bikes pros ride being available for people to buy. I assume pros have different bikes for racing purposes.
especially when you that bikes 3x cost perform like cheaper ones, so its just elitist priced things. Even midrange things like bike with 105 groupset look like high-end thingy, the thing you should make effort to afford. Well. Have your warehouse full of bikes than
One way bike brands can reduce costs is by not ramming new, unnecessary, incompatible, expensive, so called "tech" down our throats every freaking year.
@@gcntech Mostly anything integrated and proprietary such as seat posts and headsets/stems, internal cable routing, hookless rims, any frame that doesn't fit a bottom bracket correctly or that needs to be sanded, grinded, bored out, or reamed to be able to get a component to fit, epoxy/carbon dropouts, disc brakes only, and to a lesser extent epoxy/carbon frames and wheels although that's more of a preference thing.
This is partly why Shimano bought out the CUES system one Derailleur and chain that can work across 8,9 and 10 speed, just swap the shifter and cassette. Simplifies the stock they need to hold and supply and ultimately benefits the consumer
@@gcntechisn't the idea that they will bring out a drop-bar version to eventually replace Claris, Sora and Tiagra? I think it makes to simplify things and means the customer can easily swap components - e.g moving from 8 to 10 speed doesn't need a new deraileur. From what I've heard Linkglide greatly increases component life too.
My desire for any new bike is severely diminished by the industry abandonment of high end rim brake options, ...and all the other 'improvements' that make maintenance difficult.
Time still makes rim brake frames too. I think the brands that "know" that putting disc brakes on a road bike was just a marketing stunt to sell gullable customers a new bike, but a step backwards from an engineering perspective, are still offering rim brakes because they know that savvy performance focused customers will continue to buy them
@drinkbivo makes stainless steel water bottles. Also, they’re great. The flow is the best thing about these. I drink a lot more water than I normally would on a run. #drinkbivo
A 'good' aero bike is lightweight, and somewhat comfortable - but not for 6 hours+. What needs to happen is mass customisation. Like options of bar width, stem length, crank length, tyre width, seat, casette......just as you said 🙂
I agree! I just had a bike fit and then bought a new Roubaix for $3500 and then had to promptly replace the stem, handlebars, saddle, and cranks (including the bottom bracket, spindle and spider… needed for my super-short cranks) to make it fit. Perhaps I should have just ordered the frame! 😅
@@gcntechA basic "fit cycle" shouldn't be too difficult, nor time consuming, to setup for a potential customer, in order to get a better idea of frame size and stem length/height. If a full blown RETUL fit is $300 (where I aggravated a knee injury on the first ride following), a bike shop could eat the cost of the time spent on a basic setup, if they're selling a $4k - $15k bike, vs. "just asking how tall the buyer is, and using the manufacturers' chart recommendations".
I don't buy a new bike just bought a new groupset recently as crank length, stem length and bar width need to be customisable to make a new bike worth it
What they say: To many options are overwhelming What they mean: We miscalculated how popular riding, when you're not forced to, actually is and we need to recalibrate.
Riding is extremely popular. The US is the 3rd biggest market for it in the world. But keep in mind that people's wallets are hurting..... new people are definitely not interested when they aren't really into it much, and then see the high prices of something they aren't super into..... yeah no. Its a money thing.
@@diehardbikes it's not a contradiction but you need to understand the reality of supply and demand, poor forecasting and business speak to understand what I meant.
@@Livlifetaistdeth I'm a business owner. My father is as well. Both of us made it through covid and my father actually grew quite a bit and had enough to buy a second house by the end of that year..... I understand supply and demand better than anyone. You have to understand how supply and demand works in a specific means to the bike industry, which is where as a business owner, pretty much ALL the brands have got it wrong. Especially on the higher end bikes.
Saying that manufacturers should not try being more profitable at the expense of the customer right after mentioning how people buy more discbrake bikes is so contradictory. People wouldn't switch to electronic shifting, tubeless, hookless or discs if the media wasn't pushing for this in favour of the manufacturers, at the expense of the customers.
Disagree. Havent had a single flat since i tried and finally completely switched to tubeless. I run electronic shifting even on my winter bike since the mechanical was always acting up in the wet and grime. After commuting with a 7km decent for one winter on rim brakes i was a full disc convert. Switched to disc for this winter and its a difference like night and day.
I haven't had a single flat in years, and I run inner tubes on all my bikes (roadbike with 23mm tires), disc for the travel bike and calipers on race bike. Had all sorts of Shimano and Sram mechanical groupsets, only acting-up was when something was worn out or damaged. The point is not that I don't like or use modern tech, the point is having a choice and having an option to ride and service older bikes and not pushing to make them obsolete and unserviceable. I like my 2015 tarmac, I don't want to be pushed into a disc bike if the rim brake stuff gets fazed out, and same with groups.
Picking up from the comment by Anthony shared in this episode that "we once all road lower tier bikes", perhaps it can be a GCN video idea surrounding GCN presenters and their first road bikes. Would love to hear/see the bikes that each presenter started with and memorable stories from it!😊
The Camelbak Podium Chill insulated plastic bottles are nice but not up for the dead of summer, after an hour or so your water will be warm. We sorely needed a double-walled vacuum sealed steel bottle! This will keep your water cold for the duration of a day long ride. Is it a bit heavier? Yes... but the cold water is worth it imo.
$100 for an 18 oz 240g Ti bottle vs the $5 24 oz 85g recycleable plastic bottle from the LBS that has lasted at least 5 years and still doing fine......decisions...decisions....
