@@simonskeggs7284 some bikes are overpriced, that is not the problem, you have the options not to buy it. So the problem is you. the question is why do you need expensive bikes? it's not like you are world champion. Some cars - Ferrari are over priced, so? if you cannot afford, don't buy it.
TREK, Giant and Specialized have priced themselves at Ferrari levels, but they are the Ford and Volkswagen of the bike world. They have lost sight of what they are about.
I mean….. specialized and Trek run the pros… They’re priced at Ferrari levels because they produce winning bikes. Italian bikes have neat designs but that’s about it.
@@GREATVOVA None now, thats the point. Trek, Specialized, Giant used to focus on being a mid range, volume producers, it was possible to choose from many road and MTB bikes between $500 and £1500, now they are all aiming at the top end, as thats where the greastest margins are but they have found at that they then loose the volume, hecne the situation they are in now.
In the end a bike is a bike. Everyone has the same components and similar frames. Spec wise they are identical. It’s just different paint jobs. So no wonder a top spec Giant cost the same as any other Italian brand.
Dude every corporation is like that. A year or two of high cotton is the new baseline revenue expectation. When reality doesn’t deliver on their revenue fantasy they sack the CEO or cut jobs to control expenses.
@@patthewoodboy It's mind boggling as to how many 2-3 year old bikes that have been ridden maybe 50 miles during covid that are on the market. People bought bikes thinking they'd love the sport , rode them twice , got tired , realised riding a bike takes effort and quit 😉 E-bikes are also on the rise , living in a small city I see more and more E-bikes every summer being used for urban and rail trails as less people are purchasing pedal bikes as 70% of people in America are simply overweight and out of shape.
Ive lived on Long island my whole life. The bikes stores used to have little kids and teens hanging out in the shop and parkıng lot. The Kids are gone, the parking lots have Mercedes and Audis with $1000 racks for $5000 bikes.
Agee, it gets to a point where the bicycle technology is getting too expensive and technical for the average consumer. I can afford a $10,000 ($3,000-$5,500 is my limit) but its a bicycle and I'm not competitive to that level and do you really need that extreme tech?
@@macdaddy1617 the thing is it’s literally all just marketing nonsense. Carbon hasn’t improved in years. It’s only the shapes they mould it into too form differant frames with differant characteristics. then they sell that ‘advancement’. Same with groupsets. Shimano in particular just change the labels on old stock and move it up a spec. this generations dura ace will be next generations ultegra…. They think we are stupid.
Let’s look at the facts. A good bike, a bike of the people, used to cost less than £1000. My first bike, 8 years ago,was a Sora equipped Cube which retailed for £650. I bought a 105 equipped ribble Audax for £700 3 years later! In 2016 I bought a top end Cannondale for £2,500! Now a 105 equipped Defy is over £4,000.
£1,000?! A bike of the people?! I don’t think most people can afford a bike that expensive. Maybe enthusiasts but not most people. But you are definitely right about the prices being really high overall.
You should have a bought a real bike with some style..While at a lunch stop the waiter said man I love that bike ..my friend thought the waiter was taling about his brand new Giant.. Waiter said no that red Pinarello...he was talking about my like-new 1978 Pinarello Super Record team bike...sell your plastic probably all black boring bikes and get something more fun to ride..I ride 14 000 km a year on my classic bikes...riding boring carbon bikes would be like going for a drive in a Hyundai. Like a Hyundai car club vs a muscle car club.
The industry made money hand over fist during covid. They got greedy and overbuilt. As consumers we now benefit from deep sale prices to clear out supply. Its great for us.
I waited two years to buy my Canyon because I didn’t want black and the others colors was meh. Finally they released a racing green color. It’s six years ago. Still have the bike with disc and mechanical 11 speed 105. I bought Shimano carbon wheels this year. Now I’m no longer in the market for anything. Electronic gears would be nice, but I rather use the money on other things from now on like traveling with the bike.
Ex insider here, if you guys only knew the expectations these big brands have in terms of sales you’d go crazy. I worked at a shop during the COVID boom and we were selling about 15-20 bikes per day opened for about a year. Then about ten per day for about 8-10 months and finally hit rock bottom. Lots of households now have bikes. Prices are still up there. And inflation is pretty much worldwide. Bike sales won’t start to pick up decently at least until another 3-5 years or unless they come out with something radical
I just bought a used Trek 400 tange steel top quality Shimano ultegra 8 speed runs great on craigslist $99 mint condition. It's 40 years old and it can last another 40 years.
Just went to buy a new road bike. Giant could not even be ordered at this point. Trek was out 6 months with no guarantee of delivery. Ended up at a specialized dealer ordered Sunday, took delivery Thursday. Other brands locally were out 4 to 6 months. Definitely a manufacturer management issue.
Salvaged a 2016 Trek Emonda ALU frame from a bike cooperative last year. Perfectly good frame in excellent condition. $200 dollars US. Built up with cast off parts in my basement. Rides just fine. LOL.
I’ve had 3-4 years out of riding my bikes regularly. Now I’ve got back in, I’m shocked at how much more complex and expensive things have got…..but definitely not better IMO
When I was looking for my endurance carbon fiber, 105 road bike, CERVELO literally had equivalent options (the Caledonia 105 Mechanical) for $1000 LESS, NOT ON SALE. The Madone was $4200, the Tarmac was $4500, and the Caledonia was $3200. This was just last year too. Guess which bike I ended up with? 😂
I’m not into MTB anymore, but Trek has an unbelievable amount of mountain bikes offered. i would need to take a day long class to just try to figure out exactly what I would want if I were to buy a new mountain bike.
I've had people tell me trek is the apple phone of the bike world with each model being the last model with a different color and name but with moved around components
It would seem to me that Giant has made the layup of carbon frames much cheaper and efficient to produce than carbon frames were in the early/mid 2000’s when the frames were being produced in the US and EU. If that’s the case, why are bikes much more expensive adjusted for inflation? Margins are much higher than they were in the early/mid 2000’s. If Giant and Trek aren’t able to continually exceed investor expectations then maybe it’s the expectations that need to give. If the current market is tapped out and everyone bought bikes during Covid, borrowing demand from the future, the bike industry has to expand the consumer base. Provide quality $500-$800 bike models. Advocate for paved bike riding paths through cities and on public lands. We have to get more people on road bikes and we aren’t going to do it asking them to ride on public roads with cars. It’s too dangerous. Beginners and experienced riders alike, are concerned with increasingly dangerous roads. We need paved paths in nature for cyclists and joggers.
@@chevyyyyyyy My city replaced a 22 mile abandoned rail line with a paved bike/walk/jog path. It has transformed the city. There are now parks all along the path, new housing developments, and restaurants/coffee stops. A relatively small city of 80,000 people, 450k in the greater metro, is able to support 24 bike shops. If a city will invest in a safe place to cycle then people will cycle. The roads are getting less and less safe. If we can’t expand access to safe cycling, the cycling industry is going nowhere.
Ciöcc ISB (Bergamo, Italy) paints from its extensive color scheme, on customer demand, instead of pre-painting bikes which, I think, minimizes unwanted inventory to some extent.
The middle class is getting chewed up. I’d imagine a new bike is an easy cut. I bought a lockdown bike for my wife that was barely used at Pennie’s on the dollar.
I have never understood bikes. When you by a car, say BMW, most of the parts like engine components are made by BMW. On bikes, just the frame is made by say Trek. The rest of the bike is SHIMANO etc.
Most car parts are made from a third party and assembled by the manufacturer. Remove you spark plugs they probably say NGK or Denso remove a control module it probably says continental on it. Manufacturers design and assemble but will out source most components from other companies because it's cheaper
Brands need to start getting into custom paint. Rather than making a few colors, have a few templates with a few colors online and and let the customer customize the paint for each bike.
i cannot confirm that there is too much inventory. at least in my area. i tried to find a trek checkpoint in size 54 for almost a year but couldn´t get ahold of one. Now i`ll stick with my old bike that`s still doing it`s job. Prices of new bikes are way too high anyways.
New generation is more apt to play video games instead of ride. I enjoy rebuilding 90's and early 2000's rides. Dirt cheap, abundant parts, easy to work on. I could care less about the color.
they didn’t understand that bikes are not like phones that they can do planned obsolescence. even then 6-10 yr old phones you can still use it but they stop updates and its gonna be very slow nowadays. bikes though, if the frameset is still good, you only have to replace broken parts or have the itch to upgrade.
I have a 5 year old S Works Roubaix and feel the same. In that the time the bike has nearly doubled in price! RIP off! Would rather spend some money upgrading wheels etc on my bike. I am never going to spend £12k plus.
Part of the reason for overproduction was growth in the high end - if you to have a bike costing 15.000 EUR in your lineup you have to fill the lower price points. Now that they want to cut down the SKU's (Trek) it will be interesting to see if they leave more gaps between the models - if they have the top model costing 15.000 and the one below 10.000 how will that affect the sales.
$22,999 AUD is the list price for Fuel EXe on the aussie web site. You cant sell these😂 what are you thinking? Im thinking $5000 absolute max in build cost. Probably way less....
I love Trek, but that trend of $7K+ ebikes has to go away. Most people I run into want ebikes with throttles. You know, those cheap ebikes that can zoom by a $12K Trek ebikes while the rider laughs? Those ebikes. *
Re the point about repainting frames, that’s always happened. I remember that used to happen with BMX’s in the 80’s. Excess inventory is repainted or restickered to the new colours or, if the model is changing design, the old frames are restickered/repainted as a cheaper model or a more popular colour to clear stock.
I agree about the colour changes annually , forcing shops to by the new range. The manufacturers don’t take the hit , the shop does , they sell it with a smaller margin just to shift it . The manufacturers sell it to the retailer for the same price
Another reason for the drop in demand is the cost of bikes and spare parts. The general cost of bikes is now inflated well past when most people would consider reasonable.
These bikes cost way too damn much for being made in Taiwan! Also, in most cases, everything besides the frame is manufactured by another company. The drive train, handlebars, saddle, shifters, brakes, wheels, peddles all manufactured by another company. You're paying $5,000 for a frame and a name!
Not enough demand but I’ve been trying to buy a TCR Advanced 2 rim brake model and it’s been a nightmare to get one, price reasonably and people will buy!! Not everyone wants or needs a £3/4/5k model
Many people buy in China for 1/4th of the price... same goes for bike parts, carbon frames, bars, btw. I found the same TPU tubes 5 x cheaper on Aliexpress than on Amazon, etc.
They could start by making bikes unnecessary complicated. Integrated cockpits, fully hidden cables and wedge clamps for proprietary seatpost cost lots of money to create and maintain.
Giant and Trek have so many models and for each model so many build specs. Multiply that by the number of sizes and colours and no bike shop has the money or space to stock them all. A new customer such as me has to research for weeks to figure out what they think they might want but then can’t find one in stock anywhere close. If you are lucky enough to find one, you sit on it, check the size and geometry look good, then say thank you very much, go home and buy it online for a 25% discount. Yes, the bike industry has problems.
These bike companies have fooled people for years they need TDF type bikes for marginal gains. Fact is those bikes are for the .5%ers. Selling different standards over and over and over screwing the consumer in the long run. Screw Trek and Giant. I hope they sink and give the smaller companies a fair(er) shake. Local bike shop was telling me someone ordered a Giant MTB online and he had to put it together for a fixed price. These companies don’t care about the shops. They certainly don’t care about the consumer. PS : Rivendell is doing just fine.
I purchased a Canyon which are ordered direct from Canyon. Canyon only offers the Endurace in black. Black suits me just fine. Perhaps Canyon has the best business model
Often see brand new bikes being sold on marketplace etc and it is clear these have come straight from a store. I always assumed it may be a worker buying retail and trying to sell higher as a side gig, but hearing that retail stores are forced to buy a certain amount to retain a brand then it might be more likely its the owner selling on the side to drop the price below what the store can do it for.
The only thing thats going to save companies like Giant and Trek is a smart decision on which bikes they keep after their downsizing. They can't continue to market mainly to the 5% of riders that will spend $10,000+ on a bike, and should offer more affordable options for the people that want to ride, but can't aford to spend a quarter or their income on a bike. More entry to mid-level bikes would be wise, especially some better spec'd sub-$1,000 choices.
When money is artificially printed (not earned from productive activity) and given to the population it pulls demand forward from future years to the present. After this it's exactly as you described: everyone has all the kit they need and no new consumers are there to buy. "Demand fell" no it was pulled forward
The profits are gargantuan so they have to adjust to bring bang demand. People want to bike at the mid and high end but theyre sticking to the bike they've had for 3+ years. Do we really need 12 spd and wireless shifters
Instead of playing the long game they decided to hustle the consumers. Now that we can go places and a bycicle is just a toy good luck convincing someone to chose a bike over a car for the same money. Hopefully the governments cancel their incentives as well, lets see who bends first.
You are being dishonest. Your average person is not going to buy a high-end bike. There are still bikes that you can buy that are affordable. Bikes have pricepoints.
I just purchased an ESKER Hayduke frame , with all the discounts on quality 1-3 year old components up to 50% off I'm going to build one hell of a bike.
The manufacturers are afraid to release the inventory because they know they will flood the market. Specialized is paying a million dollars a month to warehouse their overstock right now... Absolutely insane IMAO...
Maybe not for Giant Group..because usually they sell their stuff to the other top brands (which might cost way cheaper before getting the sticker on), then the top ramp up the prices by providing "beautiful numbers of data" for the cyclists and hope they will buy..but fun fact--those wattage saves actually just marginal in real life
where I am in the US, Trek has also bought out a couple local bike shops, and to sell their bikes. I've found the new Trek shops lack expertise in servicing bikes, lack parts for repair (i have shamano 105 mechanical), but they sure as hell will push the sale of new bikes. Even if your bike is < 1year old. Now I'm in a city that still has a number of really good locally owned and run bike shops. So now with Trek bikes only sold at Trek shops, which are frankly the worse bike shop option, people who are buying bikes in all the local clubs are buying the brands sold at other shops. Clubs with riders from the armature racers to the 12mph avg riders. I wonder how much this is occurring elsewhere.
I bought a used GT Avalanche. Ive swapped out basically everything but the bottom bracket (that's next) and the brakes on it. I'm into the bike dor about $1k over 3 years. I've turned it into a very capable trail bike that far exceeds my current talents. The equivalent bike would cost me closer to $1500 brand new.
I looked at a Trek bike, there were so many different models that over complicated the decision. I ended up choosing a Planet X at 3/4 of the cost and a much higher spec.
I still ride a bike I bought in the 90's to commute . I keep lots of spares (including frames and wheels) bought mostly online from clearance sales, Ebay or Aliexpress. Only buy coffee and cake or small purchases from local bike shops. Their bike prices are ridiculous, charging 4 or 5 figures for stuff made in China for peanuts.
Why has it affected road bikes to a greater extent ? The pricing on Giants endurance road bikes are astronomical. MTBs are still expensive but at least you can almost justify the costs due to the added complexity of the bike.
Prices have gone crazy! Trek are charging €2k for paint finishes. A madone SLR 9 is upwards of €15,000. No bike will ever beat my 2017 rim brake, mech dura ace madone. Bikes are getting heavier and slower- purely because they're easier and cheaper to manufacture like that.
The analysis on the colors of bicycles is very relevant, it brings nothing to consumers, especially since for cases like trek there are already a lot of colors possible, especially at the top of the range. The fact that the brands in greatest difficulty are those with the largest sizes if we take the case of trekking, that's 8 different sizes for a racing bike, 8 for mountain bikes like the MArlin 8. Y' Does it make sense to have a mountain bike in size XXS? For clothing it's a headlong rush, the brands offer several colors etc. to continue to sell and renew themselves in the face of enormous competition. And what is also lacking is the very good quality of the products when we see the lifespan of an ASSOS jacket for example, the gloves, for the shorts it is more particular but an outfit can cover 10,000km without any worries . And I think that we are only at the beginning and in a field where we do not talk about it is electricity where many specialized companies will be in danger
Blaming demand absolutely makes sense. When a brand like Trek says demand is down they're talking about the macro trend, not necessarily a personal and individual choice, especially those of dedicated cyclists. It's no secret that during the pandemic that people who had previously expressed almost zero interest in cycling all of a sudden were pushed into outdoor fitness and adventure activities, including cycling. So as that changed, or corrected post-pandemic, it's absolutely acceptable for us all to recognize that the macro trend of general demand has softened.
