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Bishop Barron on The Development of Doctrine 

Bishop Robert Barron
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For more videos visit: www.wordonfire.org/resources/v...
How can Blessed John Henry Newman's idea of the 'development of doctrine' frame our discussion about the recent Synod on the Family? And does Cardinal Walter Kasper's proposal represent an authentic development in Church teaching or a corruption?

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5 ноя 2014

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Комментарии : 173   
@codebreakerbeautiful
@codebreakerbeautiful 9 лет назад
Father Barron, thank you for another wonderful insight. I am still very young in regards to my journey within the Catholic Faith, but with each day and each video I am coming to a greater understanding. Your videos are a joy to watch. :)
@BishopBarron
@BishopBarron 9 лет назад
Well, God bless you!
@JesusPedroza
@JesusPedroza 9 лет назад
Always excellently explained! Thank you Fr. Robert Barron, and God Bless your work in enlightening the rest of us.
@farocatolico6150
@farocatolico6150 9 лет назад
Always Inspiring, always thoughtful, always useful.
@crustyoldmetalhead
@crustyoldmetalhead 9 лет назад
Thanks Fr. Barron for all your posts. I hope this ministy continues to be blessed.
@JesusIsLove2512
@JesusIsLove2512 3 года назад
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 Mother Mary Pray For Us 🙏Abba Father Bless us and we Adore You 🙏
@kalv.1963
@kalv.1963 9 лет назад
At least Fr. Barron is willing to say that an apostle like St. Peter didn't fully "understand" the doctrine of the trinity as we "do today." Most Protestants would never admit this.
@gaylemcvay1
@gaylemcvay1 5 лет назад
No Kal V. I'm a protestant and I get this.... it makes sense.
@triciamonica7854
@triciamonica7854 6 лет назад
Love, love, love how you can explain these concepts and grasping my full attention! Fantastic!
@ghrohrs2020
@ghrohrs2020 2 года назад
I'd love to peruse your personal library Bishop Barron. I recognize Flannery O'Connor, but everything else is but a blur. Thankfully, your intellect is so talented, you can distill this knowledge to us while also expressing it in terms of the divine presence. Flannery was immensely "southern-biased", but she could appreciate the ultimate value of a society built upon the solid, immutable foundations of uniquely-Catholic doctrine. Art is nothing without the divine.
@aidaruilova140
@aidaruilova140 5 лет назад
Beautiful, nuanced explanation! Thank you, Bishop Barron!🙏🏼❤️
@kevinmcosker9557
@kevinmcosker9557 4 года назад
Yes; the development of doctrine ia involves a kind of organic adaptation whereby the extremes of either complete assimilation or resistance to the surrounding culture is operative. This represents a profoundly sane and courageous way for the Church to engage the world without losing her soul. Thank you, your Eminance, for posting this. In our era of opposing "camps" within the Church, we need to hear this now more than ever. God bless.
@aaronlair3114
@aaronlair3114 4 года назад
Really invaluable teaching. Thank you.
@marcmassery1793
@marcmassery1793 9 лет назад
Beautiful explanation. This idea is important to understand the supposed "dichotomy" between "conservative" and "liberal" bishops and popes. The tension between bishops in the synod were an assimilation or a "taking in" and "holding off" (as Barron calls it) to the current environment and a sign of life.
@voxangeli9205
@voxangeli9205 Год назад
BISHOP BARRON, YOUR CHANNEL’S INTRODUCTORY INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN SO COOL, SO REFRESHING, EVER INVITING, AND MOST OF ALL UNTIRING TO LISTEN INTO... GREETING YOU FROM HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES, ASIA’S MAJOR CATHOLIC COUNTRY!❤🎉😊
@jorgesoberon6866
@jorgesoberon6866 2 года назад
Thanks. Great analogies and explanation.
@Phrigmeat
@Phrigmeat 9 лет назад
Excellent. But too short! Looking forward to Part II.
@dynamic9016
@dynamic9016 Год назад
Very insightful.
@thethirdjegs
@thethirdjegs 5 лет назад
at this point this must be the most high-brow Bishop Barron video I ever watched. A few examples could be useful in understanding the development of doctrine. I am thinking on Duns Scotus' explanation of the Immaculate Conception. Another minor example but equally useful one is on how the Spanish Inquisition and the Church as large has been able to determine that St. Ignatius Loyola's Spiritual Exercises were free of error.
@Selahsmum
@Selahsmum 4 года назад
As a protestant who is coming to understand better Catholocism, I am seeing that there are two logical ways of looking at revelation and doctrine. One is that it was once and for all handed down to the saints in the Bible, and that we as people must do our best, by the guidance of the holy spirit, to discern correct doctrine out of the scritpures, and accept that there are going to be difference of opinion on secondary matters but agreement on the primary matters (this would be, largely speaking, the modern protestant idea), or the idea that doctrine rightly develops over time and that it then requires a body, led by the spirit (eg the magisterium) to discern which doctrines are right and which ones are wrong. I think they are both logical, but I can see why to Catholics the latter makes more sense than the former, because it seems more clear. But for me, I simply cannot reconcile many of the claims of catholic doctrine with scripture, and while I can logically accept the notion that the Holy Spirit could use the magisterium to further elaborate doctrine based on previously revealed truth (eg the trinity and scripture), what doesnt make sense t ome is that said further revelation could inherently contradict the first revelation, and I see that to be th case with many catholic doctrines. So, I am left rather confused and in this no mans land between protestantism and catholocism.
@laurenceraran4027
@laurenceraran4027 4 года назад
Life At Home Could you give an example of how a new revelation by the Church has contradicted a former revelation?
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr 2 года назад
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr 2 года назад
@@laurenceraran4027 mary being sinless when in the bible Mary says "my savior"
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr 2 года назад
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
@matthewepplin967
@matthewepplin967 3 года назад
my boy out here spittin straight facts
@cumonred
@cumonred 9 лет назад
Interesting and eloquent...but it's fairly easy to find areas of difficulty ....eg .most I think would say that closeness (in time)to Christ would be better in terms of understanding etc. The unfolding of doctrine among "lively" minds sound interesting but how can the truth of the results be validated ...and so on
@BiffaTW
@BiffaTW 9 лет назад
brilliant, I apply the same principle to historical points of view and discourse.
@rachealbrimberry8918
@rachealbrimberry8918 9 лет назад
at 4:35--this theological and religious idea is nearly indistinguishable from the homeostasis process in biology.
@davidalexander5495
@davidalexander5495 5 лет назад
Potency and act.
@RobKoechl
@RobKoechl 9 лет назад
Fantastic! I watch all of these videos that you upload, Fr. Barron. Thank you for them! I just saw Christopher Nolan's new movie, Interstellar, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
@lukeacerra2804
@lukeacerra2804 9 лет назад
I agree, Father Barron's videos are awesomely enlightening and entertaining! (I think he would totally dig Interstellar too)
@bobbrockway453
@bobbrockway453 9 лет назад
***** Well it's at 74% on Rotten Tomatoes and the audience gices it 88%! I guess you are in that 12% minority.
@jorgecampos5223
@jorgecampos5223 6 лет назад
Is love the answer?
@MichElle-sd6gj
@MichElle-sd6gj 5 лет назад
development, reformation, changing with times, uptodate, advancing etc. when God says I am an unchanging God?
@crystellesaleh4800
@crystellesaleh4800 5 лет назад
Mich Elle God said He is an unchanging God, not that you are an unchanging man/woman. Your understanding of Him is expected to evolve infinitely, since He is infinite. Sure, there’s a difference between evolving and devolving, which is the point the Bishop is trying to make. But of course our understanding of God must change. Read the Song of Solomon for insight on this matter, and maybe read Gregory of Nysa’s commentary on it.
@thedisintegrador
@thedisintegrador 4 года назад
Crys S as an orthodox I get what you mean, but God surely is unchanging, but our collective relationship with Him isn’t
@RGTomoenage11
@RGTomoenage11 6 лет назад
Where do we get 1st John 5:7 if it wasnt on the early manuscripts?
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 9 лет назад
I love how in Dante's Divine Comedy Dante presents all the great teachers from Aristotle, Aquinas, and to finally Saint Peter. And when Saint Peter asks Dante how did you Christianity was the truth? Dante replies : from it's humble beginning. I thought that was pretty interesting haha
@jmanderson84
@jmanderson84 6 лет назад
When I read Aquinas I disagree that I have a deeper understanding of the Trinity than him.
@maroxesen1
@maroxesen1 4 года назад
❤️❤️❤️
@mr.crighton9491
@mr.crighton9491 Год назад
Whew…..I’m relieved that the Catholics on the SCOTUS are Originalists and avoid applying Newman’s hermeneutic.
@theophilus749
@theophilus749 6 лет назад
I like the idea that, in some sense, doctrine develops in a way analogous to the way in which biologically living things develop. I wonder what Dawkins would think to this.
@laywhispers
@laywhispers 9 лет назад
Fr Barron, would you be able to recommend where I could get a document containing the doctrines as well as the disciplines of the church? Thanks.
@juancarlosescobargaraygord7377
Get the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
@laywhispers
@laywhispers 9 лет назад
Juan Carlos Escobar Hi Juan, Would you be able to identify the section in the CC that contains the list of disciplines, doctrines and dogmas; with explanations? I've got the book and have read it twice...what a bad memory I must have!
@MarcoMCMLXXXIII
@MarcoMCMLXXXIII 9 лет назад
graciela quinn Hello Graciela! Well, you can go here www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm and scroll the index on the left of the page. Peace and good
@alexchristopher221
@alexchristopher221 7 лет назад
"For now we see in a mirror daily, but then face to face." - 1 Cor. 13:12
@alexchristopher221
@alexchristopher221 7 лет назад
Ooops ! dimly, not daily,
@PeterKorman
@PeterKorman 9 лет назад
Please forgive my pedantic inclinations. Eric Voegelin makes the observation, "ideas transform symbols, which express experiences, into concepts - which are assumed to refer to a reality other than the reality experienced. And this reality other than the reality experienced does not exist. Hence, ideas are liable to deform the truth of the experiences and their symbolization" if we accept his language, then doctrine must be something other than an "idea". Christianity itself is not an "idea".
@ecclessiasticalhistory2078
@ecclessiasticalhistory2078 5 лет назад
Of course, Christianity isn't an idea. It's a living being; the son of God. However, there's still more to learn about the mysteries of God and truth. In the gospel of John, Jesus does say that the Holy Spirit would teach the apostles whatever else is necessary to know. So revelation and understanding does deepen through time, and doctrine shouldn't and wouldn't ever contradict itself with newer understandings if they come from the same source, being God.
@james.t.herman
@james.t.herman 5 лет назад
The Latin notion of the development of doctrine is the idea you’d have to persuade me about, to make a Roman Catholic out of me. I find it unconvincing, though, so I will remain Eastern Orthodox. Anselm’s Satisfactionism is not a “development” but a blatant contradiction of Theosis, which was the generally accepted definition of salvation before the Carolingians. Likewise with the latter-day claim that God’s energies are a created medium by which God deals with man, which contradicted and replaced the Greek Fathers’ understanding that the divine energies ARE God. Likewise with the conciliar approach to ecclesiastical authority being replaced with the papal hierarchy.
@DonalLeader
@DonalLeader 9 лет назад
Loved this Newman presentation. I have an old 1846 copy of The Development on my shelves. One of my Go To people. Very interested in your point regarding the assimilation criterion. I am one of those Catholics who loves the tradition but also struggling with the insights coming from our understanding of evolution. Reading John P. Newell's Rediscovering God at the moment. Would love to hear you on the kind of journey that Newell and others are undertaking at the moment. Seems to me to be very like Christian faith authentically seeking to understand and to assimilate. Thoughts?
@lukeacerra2804
@lukeacerra2804 9 лет назад
Father Barron, when you get the chance I recommend the new film by Christopher Nolan, "Interstellar". It is excellent and I would love to hear your thoughts on the Christian themes presented in the film. Thanks!
@JRLeeman
@JRLeeman 9 лет назад
Agreed - it's very nice to see Christian themes geared towards something other than personal salvation, (such as in this theme, the protection of humanity) - the pursuit of which in itself is ironically opposed to the means of attaining it.
@JRLeeman
@JRLeeman 9 лет назад
cbooth151 You do understand that you can have all sorts of undesirable persons and actions present in a christian movie if it is intellectual geared towards a greater truth. The world is ugly, and only by contrast can we show this.
@lukeacerra2804
@lukeacerra2804 9 лет назад
ThoseTolerableNoobs I wouldn't even acknowledge cbooth151's comment. It is so ridiculous that it is not worth your time. He is essentially saying that all other literature with Christian themes, even C. S. Lewis, is not valid and people should read the bible only. Ridiculous.
@lukeacerra2804
@lukeacerra2804 9 лет назад
You do realize that there are a number of distasteful people and subject matters in the bible, correct? Murder, prostitution, incest, profanity, heresy, idolatry. The list goes on. While these things may be PRESENT in the bible, the book never CONDONES those things. The same can be said for any book or movie with sinful subject matter in it. As long as the book or movie never condones these things, and uses these things to offer a lesson for a greater purpose, it is fine.
@JRLeeman
@JRLeeman 9 лет назад
cbooth151 I didn't agree with you - I was arguing that to portray christian themes, one must often contrast them with the actions of objectionable persons. A character can be vile and commit horrible crimes in a piece of fiction if those actions serve the overall message of the piece. For instance, in Paradise Lost, Satan is characterized, but we are not meant to emulate him but we are being cautioned against him.Also - How many times in the Bible are evil characters presented as cautionary tales? The Serpent, Pharaoh Ramses, Herod? Is the Bible filth, too, because it gives voice to these people only to deride them? You can use a foul word if the intention is to prevent others from doing so. Additionally, it is not for you to tell people if they are or aren't christians or if they are or aren't in God's favour. You are not objectively good - and you cannot pass judgement on another. I can't decide if you're a Muslim or a Jehovah's Witness. Given your obsession with the Bible, and the fact that Islam is a scholarly religion, I would gather the latter.
@tinman1955
@tinman1955 9 лет назад
Well then, would you agree that Catholic apologists might scrap the "fullness of truth" slogan in favor of something like "truth...a work in progress"?
@lukeacerra2804
@lukeacerra2804 9 лет назад
Not at all. As doctrine develops, the truth becomes more and more clear. Did you not watch the video or are you just playing dumb?
@tinman1955
@tinman1955 9 лет назад
Luke Acerra That's what I'm saying, Luke. If truth becomes more & more clear with time then it was less and less clear in the past. Therefore the "fullness of truth" claim cannot be true. You can't have it both ways.
@marcmassery1793
@marcmassery1793 9 лет назад
This sentence is six words long. That is the truth about the sentence whether or not I look at it with my glasses or not. Truth never changes, though our perception of it might.
@JRLeeman
@JRLeeman 9 лет назад
The truth is independent of humans, much like virtue and morality - we can have something imbued with truth, but be unable to perceive it. For example, a politician might do something characteristically wrong, but because of our perception, they are able to hire a spin doctor to mitigate their guilt.
@ironymatt
@ironymatt 5 лет назад
IAmTheSwordmaster Very well put. The same principle underlies the Deposit of Faith contained within the Church.
@thomism1016
@thomism1016 Год назад
I recently spoke to an evangelical who justified and defended ‘divorce and remarriage’ using the “development of doctrine” 😱😱😱
@gregvassilakos
@gregvassilakos Год назад
The Bishop espouses Cardinal Newman's claim that "Christian doctrine precisely because it's a living thing is not simply given once and for all, but rather unfolds and develops becoming more fully itself only over time." This is not consistent with the idea that the Church's teachings are unchanging eternal truth.
@squeeksqueeken7110
@squeeksqueeken7110 9 лет назад
Could you tell me if its true that pope Francis said that Israel has nothing to do with the bible .
@rail_bender5205
@rail_bender5205 3 года назад
The doctrine of the immaculate conception is a result of how men and women can talk themselves into anything. What do the monks on Mt Athos say about the doctrine Father? They say it's an absolute corruption. Don't get me wrong love my Catholic brethren yet there are stark differences between us.
@krishyyfan5153
@krishyyfan5153 2 года назад
St. Paul calls Jesus the New Adam...COMMON SENSE would obviously mean that Mary is also the NEW Eve... Go read Genesis 3:15....if there is ENMITY between the seed and woman VERSUS Satan , then obviously Mary DID not in any point in time became an ally of the Devil from Conception to Assumption of Mary...🙄🙄
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr 2 года назад
@@krishyyfan5153 I think the church (all believers) are the new Eve
@krishyyfan5153
@krishyyfan5153 2 года назад
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr it does not take sophisticated explanation to see Mary as the New Eve...The Old Eve came from the Rib of Old Adam....The New Adam came from the Virgin birth of the New Eve... Isn't it obvious??🙄
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr 2 года назад
@@krishyyfan5153 The church (all believers) come from Jesus and we are to be the bride of Christ. We are made new (born again). New creations. Mary is one of the church, but to be the entirety of the new Eve? No, I think the new Eve is the church (us) Eve came from Adam but the new Adam came from the new Eve? That's backwards.
@krishyyfan5153
@krishyyfan5153 2 года назад
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr LOL...isn't it obvious that your interpretation is clearly WRONG?? ADAM is not a Church...old eve is not a Group or community... New Adam = individual New Eve = individual.... It's just COMMON SENSE..... Stop making very weird interpretation.... Even the manner by which the Old Eve was created and the New Adam was created clearly shows the parallelism.... This has been the will of God from the beginning of Genesis 3:15....
@aldoalfaro4637
@aldoalfaro4637 6 лет назад
Yes, our understanding of the faith develops BUT never to the point of contradiction! Be careful Barron... be very careful!
@opikhu9688
@opikhu9688 6 лет назад
The day Club Penguin shut down was the day my hope in humanity died.
@chosenskeptic5319
@chosenskeptic5319 4 года назад
🤔 the Holy Spirit is God’s hands, his works upon the world and in our life. The trinity is a doctrine of misbelief 😮
@pearl1606
@pearl1606 2 года назад
V2 does not represent a development of anything, except the development of marxist sociology and thinking within the Church.. And St JH Newman did not develop any doctrine, he simply provided a commentary on doctrine.
@krishyyfan5153
@krishyyfan5153 2 года назад
Let's see what ST. john Henry Newman said... ST. JOHN HENRY NEWMAN ""In the Catholic Church," says St. Augustine to the Manichees, "not to speak of that most pure wisdom, to the knowledge of which few spiritual men attain in this life so as to know it even in its least measure,-as men, indeed, yet, without any doubt,-(for the multitude of Christians are safest, not in understanding with quickness, but in believing with simplicity,) not to speak of this wisdom, which ye do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other considerations which most sufficiently hold me in her bosom. I am held by the consent of people and nations; by that authority which began in miracles, was nourished in hope, was increased by charity, and made steadfast by age; by that succession of priests from the chair of the Apostle Peter,🙄🙄 to whose feeding the Lord after His resurrection commended His sheep, even to the present episcopate; lastly, by the very title of Catholic, which, not without cause, hath this Church alone, amid so many {257} heresies, obtained in such sort, that, whereas all heretics wish to be called Catholics,🙄🙄 nevertheless to any stranger, who asked where to find the 'Catholic' Church,🙄🙄 none of them would dare to point to his own basilica or home. These dearest bonds, then, of the Christian Name, so many and such, rightly hold a man in belief in the Catholic Church, even though, by reason of the slowness of our understanding or our deserts, truth doth not yet show herself in her clearest tokens. But among you, who have none of these reasons to invite and detain me, I hear but the loud sound of a promise of the truth; which truth, verily, if it be so manifestly displayed among you that there can be no mistake about it, is to be preferred to all those things by which I am held in the Catholic Church; but if it is promised alone, and not exhibited, no one shall move me from that faith which by so many and great ties binds my mind to the Christian religion." -----ST. JOHN HENRY NEWMAN, ESSAY ON DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, CHAPTER 6
@pearl1606
@pearl1606 2 года назад
@@krishyyfan5153 V2 is NOT the Catholic Church. It is indeed a heresy as pernicious as the Manichees. It preaches modernism, evolution, ecumenism, liberalism. It's so obviously a secular ideology even atheists stare at the Church in amazement.
@krishyyfan5153
@krishyyfan5153 2 года назад
​@@pearl1606ST. Francis De Sales on the CATHOLIC title.... ST. FRANCIS DE SALES "THAT great Father, Vincent of Lerins, in his most useful Memorial, says that he must before all things have a great care to believe "that which has been believed by all [always and everywhere] " . . such as the jugglers and tinkers; for the REST of the WORLD call us Catholic;🙄🙄 and if we add Roman, it is only to inform people of the See of that Bishop who is general and visible Pastor of the Church. And already in the time of St. Ambrose to be Roman in communion was the same thing as to be Catholic.🙄🙄 But as for your church, it is called everywhere🙄🙄 Huguenot, Calvinist, Heretical, Pretended, Protestant, New, or Sacramentarian. 🙄🙄Your church was not before these names, and these names were not before your church, because they are proper to it. Nobody calls you Catholics🙄🙄, you scarcely dare to do so yourselves. I am well aware that amongst you your churches call themselves Reformed, but just as much right to that name have the Lutherans, and the Ubiquitarians, Anabaptists, Trinitarians, and other offshoots of Luther, and they will never yield it to you. The name of religion is common to the Church of the Jews and of the Christians, in the Old Law and in the New; the name of Catholic 🙄🙄is proper to the Church of Our Lord; the name of Reformed (insert SSPX here😁😁) is a blasphemy against Our Lord, who has so perfectly formed and sanctified his Church in his blood, that it must never take other form than of his all lovely Spouse, of pillar and ground of truth. One may reform the nations in particular, but not the Church or religion. She was rightly formed, change of formation is called heresy or irreligion. The tint of Our Saviour's blood is too fair and too bright to require new colors. Your church, then, calling itself Reformed, gives up its part in the form which the Saviour had established. But I cannot refrain from telling you what Beza, Luther, and Peter Martyr think on this. Peter Martyr calls you Lutherans, and says you are brothers to them; you are then Lutherans; Luther calls you Zwinglians and Sacramentarians; Beza calls the Lutherans Consubstantiators and Chymists, and yet he puts them in the number of Reformed churches. See then the new names 🙄🙄which the reformers acknowledge for one another. Your church, therefore, not having even the name of Catholic,🙄🙄 you cannot with a good conscience say the Apostles' Creed;🙄🙄 if you do, you judge yourselves, who, confessing the Church Catholic and universal, obstinately keep to your own, which most certainly is not such. If St. Augustine were living now, he would remain in our Church, which from immemorial time is in possession of the name of Catholic."🙄🙄 -------ST. FRANCIS DE SALES , THE CATHOLIC CONTROVERSY, AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH , CHAPTER XI.
@chris12780
@chris12780 2 года назад
Obviously you did not watch and listen the context of the video carefully
@ahcokris
@ahcokris 6 лет назад
Newman is a great saint and will be made church doctor. But he was against liberalism. Read his book(s) as part of my grad paper. He was extremley deep.
@ahcokris
@ahcokris 6 лет назад
Conserving? Why are traditional catholics looked down on then???
@ahcokris
@ahcokris 6 лет назад
What was rhe conclusion. Any relation to Newman?
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