Bishop Barron on the Mystery of Eating Jesus' Flesh

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This exclusive clip is from Episode 7 of CATHOLICISM, entitled BREAD OF HEAVEN - The Mystery of the Church's Sacrament and Worship.
In Episode 7, Father Barron explores the ancient practices of the Church's worship that endure to this very day, and the notion that "all value is summed up in the liturgy, the supreme act by which we commune with God.
Considered by the Catholic Faith to be "the source and summit" of its identity and mission, the Eucharist is the central practice of the Church's culture. Father Barron describes all the parts of the Mass, and shows how the Sacred Liturgy embodies the whole of the Faith in diverse places as Jerusalem, Rome, Chicago, Orvieto, Mexico City.
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11 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 778

@MaryMacharia 11 лет назад

This is so moving. Thank you, my beloved Daughter, Joyce, for buying me this Laptop that at the 4th Quarter of my life on this Earth I can learn such moving Truths about our One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and Christ's Merciful Love for us in this Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. May I adore, worship, praise and then receive Him worthily all the remaining days of my Life. Jesus I Trust in You

@Ingrid0410 11 лет назад

The Eucharist is a great mystery. You see we have a Savior who didn't abandon us down here on earth. He left us Himself in the Eucharist. No, we do not become greater than God eyeszonme. I thank and praise the Lord for the wonderful Catholic Church! And thank you Fr. Baron for your marvelous series "Catholicism" God Bless Everyone~

@bcurtisful 11 лет назад

Fr Barron, great explanation of a sacrament so difficult to comprehend. I find it interesting that protestant preachers believe in the resurrection, the multiplication of loaves, walking on water, raising the dead, etc,. But they draw the line at the holy eucharist, just like the people who walked away from Jesus. keep up the great work Robert Curtis

@linnettony 11 лет назад

If you receive the Holy Eucharist in faith..... You will experience.... the love of Jesus...No words can explain it....

@1yogachris 11 лет назад

It is only when one becomes spiritually awakened that one really starts to understand the mystery of the Eucharist. Every time I take Mass I feel strengthened, healed, cleansed by it. I find it so powerful. I always feel that I am being connected right back to Jesus at the Last Supper. I love Exposition too since one really feels God's presence. How to become spiritually awakened - love like Jesus loved and accept Him as a reality in your life.

@narcosissy 11 лет назад

Absolutely beautiful. I have come up with many excuses why I'm too busy to go to adoration. Having gone, I've never left and felt my time was wasted. Instead I always wonder why I'm not there more often.

@sonoflittlecloud 12 лет назад

Thank you Fr Barron, for the great work you are doing. The world NEEDS people with your faith and the courage to spread it. Of course, the Eucharist is the greatest thing we humans have, it is to satan and his followers what kriptonite is to superman. May God bless you and preserve you to us for a long time.

@angelamariapreuss 12 лет назад

Oh, my God the things that come out of your mouth! "Peter confesses the real truth and the Church has followed him ever since". I never have sufficient answers to why I believe as a Catholic. But you Father Barron with the Holy Spirit speaking through you give us the best words, answers, to both evangelize and defend the Faith. Besides that Peter received the keys and that Peter knew Jesus was the Messiah, and Jesus said that he would build his Church on Peter the rock. I love Saint Peter!

@lorettagallagher9577 3 года назад

God bless you, Bishop Barren

@chungsukoh 11 лет назад

Thanks for the uploads, use em for my classes.

@AlejandroGarcia-ek3uy 4 года назад

God bless you, father Barron.

@samsonmark8308 7 лет назад

Thank you Bishop Barron.

@daviddrefcinski5288 8 лет назад

Thank you so much Bishop Barron for speaking the Truth and fighting the good fight. God Bless you!

@daviddrefcinski5288 7 лет назад

I still think Bishop Barron is awesome and he's living the life of a Saint and standing up for the Truth. He is being an example of how we Catholics should all be witnesses despite the persecution from society.

@melissamarcus8475 11 лет назад

To live is to face the reality, but to face the reality people need spirituality and god in his/her life...the present of the holy spirit will guide us in everyday lives and receiving the Eucharist to accept Jesus in us very important, may god bless us...:-)

@RyanMichael777 10 лет назад

St. Ignatius Bishop of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, 8:1, 107 A.D.: Let that Eucharist be held valid which is offered by the bishop or by the one to whom the bishop has committed this charge. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CatholicChurch

@FromAcrossTheDesert 11 лет назад

Thank you Father Barron. It is late on Sunday night, and I turn to this video to listen one more time. It takes me to the Gospel. We must bring the multitude to the table of the Lord. Let them eat and drink and be transformed unto the Lord. ... A human being fully alive.

@christinagaikwad9254 3 года назад

Only one true Catholic Church

@FromAcrossTheDesert 3 года назад

@@christinagaikwad9254 Yes and everyone baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are members of that Universal (Catholic) Church.

@patriciaowens3479 11 лет назад

A WONDERFUL TOOL FOR CONVERSIONS TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH! LET US PRAY FOR MANY CONVERSIONS... PATRICIA

@conordeane 12 лет назад

And the Word was made Flesh! Fr. Barron you are doing an excellent job. Thank God for you and this work you are doing! Don't stop!

@1234poppycat 10 лет назад

Brilliant work Fr Barron God Bless

@CAnswersTV 9 лет назад

Two items that come in handy in knowing about when Romanists argue that anything said against the Roman "church" is not the truth is to tell them about the following two items: 1. The following website is by self proclaimed Roman Catholics following the so-called "true church" (in other words their Roman church is their true savior not the Biblical Jesus Christ) at www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/. These Romanists destroy the new Romanists since the invention of Vatican 2 in 1965. They present great information proving modern Romanism & their popes (they call them anti-popes) to be a false & apostate religion. It doesn't get much better than this when one group of apostate Romanists attack another brand of apostate Romanists in order to prove to the world they are false! 2. Our video "The Homosexual Pope, Priests, Universalists, Evolutionists & Disunited Roman Catholic Apologists" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hThonwrX6QU.html proves from Roman Catholic sources themselves that one of their popes was a practicing homosexual, that almost 50% of Roman Catholic priests are homosexuals (for more on this see our video "FORMER ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST SAYS CHURCH OF ROME HAS A FALSE GOSPEL & WIDESPREAD HOMOSEXUALITY" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0y4C-nBQ3mE.html), that the Roman church buys the theory of evolution which denies the first eleven chapters of Genesis in the Bible, that Pope John Paul II kissed the Muslim Qur'an & said Islam has the same god as Roman Catholics have (see the videos "Top Ten Reasons Muhammad Is Not a Prophet" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MO8sZ1JyP1A.html, "Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is Not a Prophet" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T4p7HuuhF8k.html, "50 Reasons Muhammad Was Not a Prophet (in Under Five Minutes)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4Q3f15NXrLI.html, "David Wood: Five Reasons the Quran Is Not the Word of God" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NvlzlBov9zc.html, "Who Killed Muhammad?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6st_tFj6ouM.html, "Why Did Muhammad Wear Women's Clothing?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--50CraaniT0.html; also see www.AnsweringMuslims.com & www.MuslimHope.com) & how Roman Catholic apologists are at each others' throats because of the vast differences within Romanism itself. Besides all that see the following websites for detailed information on Romanism & how it is a counterfeit religion at www.BereanBeacon.org, www.CWRC-RZ.org & www.mtc.org/. Our playlist "Dealing with Roman Catholicism, Idolatry & the Virgin Mary" currently has 117 videos refuting Romanism at ru-vid.com/group/PLFFA8D69D1B914715. Remember Titus 1:9-16, "9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

@patrickfoley4990 6 лет назад

+CAnswersTV On the topic of the Eucharist , The Roman Catholic faith is one of the few Christian faiths like the Orthodox that do actually follow Biblical teaching to the letter Other Christian faiths tend to gloss over Biblical teaching on this matter and toss it off as unbiblical even though it is definitely in the bible

@paulapetercoleman4891 6 лет назад

AJA

@bwoutchannel6356 8 лет назад

Tearful beauty and truth.

@f1sfingb0at 10 лет назад

As evidenced by the dissenting remarks, "this is a very hard saying" but, Jesus does not ease up in the least."eat my flesh, drink my blood".. it's a great mystery to even the greatest minds of all time.. brilliant. If you ask me how to explain it. You had to be there.

@midnightwatchman1 6 лет назад

but did ask you question what is the benefit or drawback of the not believe this doctrine is it that important how does it affect your faith in our lord Jesus.

@midnightwatchman1 6 лет назад

also explain this Eucharist thing to me, obvious my background is not catholic. what exactly is this ritual why does it have a different name form communion

@Joe5246 6 лет назад

I believe Bishop Barron does a good job of answering a lot of your questions in his video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bJjW3LXuHzo.html Hope this helps!

@midnightwatchman1 6 лет назад

It is alright but it just same recycled catholic answers. it does not for example answer the question why would Jesus want to literally do this and leave no evidence he is doing it. Why would a figurative answer be problematic with proper doctrine?

@patrickfoley4990 6 лет назад

+Steve Spence Very difficult thing to grasp even as a believer I've had friends of friends go to Church and ask Why do they have a dead guy hanging on the wall ? Where would you even start a theological discussion under those circumstances I usually chalk it up to "God's ways are not my/our ways " If you follow Jesus teaching and exhortation on more than one occasion to eat his flesh and drink his blood Thankfully for our feeble minds this is the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist which is changed spiritually to the Body and Blood of Christ We are told directly by Jesus in the Bible to do this Who am I to argue? I think it's Jesus way to give and unite Himself to us totally Body and Soul Like I said it's a difficult mystery to comprehend

@alanbourbeau24 9 лет назад

Whenever I attend Catholic mass at my local Catholic church, as soon the priest says, "Behold the lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the Lord, blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb." And the rest say, "Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter unto my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed." Then everyone else like me walk up and receive the body of Christ and consume. And as for what the body of Christ looks like is the same bread that the Jews used during Passover.

@hansneuendorf5286 8 лет назад

It was also the same bread that Elijah the Tishbite ate at the place of the widow and her Son. Pure Flour, Water and Oil. God fed Elijah in the wilderness as well with the same bread baked over hot coals under a tree that lasted him 40 days and 40 nights.

@hansneuendorf5286 8 лет назад

I wonder if the bread elijah ate in the wilderness was bread or the body of christ as God fed him.

@George040270 6 лет назад

Actually, no, it's not. All that can be used is flour and water. Nothing else can be added.

@patrickfoley4990 6 лет назад

+EL “RAPTOR ᚱᚨᛈᛏᛟᚱ ᛗᛖᛞᚢᛊᚨ” SHADDAI If my knowledge serves me correctly the institution of the Eucharist (Communion ) occurred with Jesus at the Passover meal of the Last supper The night before He suffered and died Elijah was before that but the manna in the desert stories are probably related to the eventual Institution of the Eucharist

@Jim1905 13 лет назад

That last part reminds me when Michael Faraday (famous 19th century physicist) was asked on his death bed "Have you ever pondered by yourself what will be your occupation in the next world?". He simply replied "I shall be with Christ, and that is enough".

@lichonski128 11 лет назад

Thank you Fr. Barron. God Bless you!

@peregrino1655 4 года назад

Wonderful sermon!

@bishopsheen1985 12 лет назад

Thank you, Father Barron

@pamelaparker4143 10 лет назад

thank you for posting this

@FromAcrossTheDesert 11 лет назад

Peter really loved Jesus. He knew Jesus as a person. We must all try to love Jesus like this. To know him as a friend, begins a journey lasting a lifetime.

@frankiecaira6158 7 лет назад

brilliant work fr barron god bless

@bishopsheen1985 12 лет назад

Thank you, Father Barron!!!

@sangoandmiroku799 11 лет назад

I love this!

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

I was raised in a church and have a good understanding of church history. There is nothing else in the teachings of Christianity to suggest that eating flesh is a good spiritual practice. I have never understood that aspect, and according to you, since it's a mystery, it may be beyond my understanding (though I don't see why). History is the key. It descends from rituals that pre-date Christianity. Early Christians adopted it because it was an established expression of spirituality at the time.

@Gordis57 11 лет назад

Ah...holy and faithful St. Thomas Aquinas, please pray for us, for the Church throughout the world, for her priests and bishops and for our Holy Father...that all may be one in Christ Jesus. Love the part where Fr. Barron mentions that Jesus spoke Latin to St. Thomas...made me smile. All wonderful videos to edify one's faith. Thanks, M.Warner may you be blessed always!

@Ekim1740 9 лет назад

Acts 2:42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Yes Christians should devote themselves in breaking the bread a.k.a Eucharist and not on worship concerts.

@leighmercadokfphrdept.2197 5 лет назад

Thank you

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

I'd invite you to learn more about both the Eucharist and what the Church teaches about it and about what the earliest Christians did and taught. Their entire life and worship centered around the celebration of the Eucharist (and, by the way, a literal understanding of it). This was central to Jesus' teaching and it's exactly reflected in what His Apostles then went out and did and taught to others.

@xuebaiqiang 11 лет назад

... father is beginning to emerge out of that darkness. May you, too, be surprised by joy sooner rather than later, i.e., discover that life is so much more meaningful, joyful, and hope-filled with God as your light. You already have some experiences that are meaningul in themselves, I trust, but everything can be enriched, is enriched, when God is in the center of it, consciously rather than unconsciously (or absent).

@JohntheJigglyuser 11 лет назад

I am speaking of Orthodox Churches here because that's what you asked about. As a Catholic you can't receive at any Orthodox Church I know of unless you're dying, and even then only if you don't have access to a Roman priest. If you find an Eastern Catholic parish somewhere (Eastern Orthodox tradition, worship, and spirituality but in communion with the Bishop of Rome) you can receive Communion there.

@FrGeorgeOcarButtigie 12 лет назад

HOW TRUE! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! HALLELUJAH! God bless us all +++

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I've heard much praise of Merton but haven't read him. There's an Eastern saying to the effect that all spiritual traditions seek the same truth; their differences are akin to those of people climbing the same mountain from different directions. Being secular/atheist, I see spirituality as a culturally conditioned response to challenging aspects of the human experience. Joseph Campbell has done great work on this view. I seek to understand, not to participate.

@jameskearney4100 7 лет назад

I see a lot off people that worry on here. If you believe in Christ, worship and pray, it is up to Jesus. I am a sinner, I know that. I also know that Jesus died for our sins and it the only way to Heaven. Live life the way Jesus did the best you can. He is the Judge! Worry seems so...... well... Like you need to change things. And maybe you or I do. So do what Jesus wills you to do as you see it, he will lead you there, just follow. Everyone knows what is right and wrong I truly think. Some just do not follow. JMHO !

@Graeberwave 11 лет назад

Father Ro Bar, thank you

@bns78123 12 лет назад

Dnt. worry father Barron, People are just Jealous theyre not Catholic and they are wrapped in deceit, and trying to hide it....I love being Catholic...the Eucarist is Perfect....thank you JESUS>sll prayers and blessing, Brian

@only1wayJC 11 лет назад

Pius XII made it crystal clear as to just what it takes to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church: "Actually only those are to be numbered among the members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith, and have not, to their misfortune, separated themselves from the structure of the Body, or for very serious sins have not been excluded by lawful authority." (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis, encyclical, June 29, 1943; Denzinger 2286)

@thoughtadventure100 13 лет назад

What I like most about Thomas Aquinas is that, though he had a towering intellect, his love for God was even greater.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

In this message, I was repeating myself and not clear. My claim is that if I can be so bold as to try to distill what Christianity is about--i.e. trying to lead a good life, treating others well, forgiveness, looking beyond the tricks and traps of materialism--eating Jesus seems to come out of the blue. The epistles are where early Christians recontextualized what they saw as the events of Jesus' life, so sure, you can find stuff that tries to "make sense" of eating Jesus.

@ChowMeinWarrior 8 лет назад

Fantastic!

@stevesilvia 11 лет назад

If we live with faith everyday, then it is safe to safe we live by faith...

@seraphim12quill 11 лет назад

Beautiful!

@FaithandReason101 11 лет назад

because during the consecration, the substance changes, while the accidents do not, we call it Transubstantiation; not transmatteration (or some other reference to substance/accidents both changing). reference to this happening was prophecied in various places of the old testament before Jesus actually gave us the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

You're making my point. The Catholic church absolutely DOES teach that the substance changes, but the accidents do not. As I suggested before, go look up transubstantiation if you want to learn what the Church means here.

@jadetiger88888 12 лет назад

wow love this. i have just seen episode 1 and 2

@dinvestor06 10 лет назад

Only the Catholic Church has true Communion with Jesus through the Eucharist John 6:35 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 1 Corinthians 11:27 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

@FaithandReason101 12 лет назад

Reason does only reach so far, but that doesn't mean it is in 'conflict' with faith. Both are necessary in their places. Reason should not inhibit faith; faith elevates reason to see beyond that which is see-able by reason alone. they are two wings of the same bird of truth. my point above is that God loves us so much that He does those things which only love can propel us to do, the unreasonable --> the sacrificial...for us: the eating of the Lord, who offered Himself as food and sacrifice.

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

@JeffersonDinedAlone Of course, but we're not just talking about what we're "supposed" to do. We're speaking in terms of requirements for salvation. A repentant, contrite heart - no matter what evil that person's done - can be forgiven and still attain salvation. So it's still possible to be a good Christian and attain salvation if you once murdered, but have now repented and asked forgiveness. Not so for an unrepentant heart. That was the point.

@stevesilvia 11 лет назад

Your opinion only....that is all you stated. While others protest, we confess that You alone Lord have the words of eternal life. John 6:66-68

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

That is how a skeptic reads things. I'm not a skeptic just because I want to be a skeptic. I have a religious background and have read a lot of things about various religions--pro, con, in-between. The problem is not that I'm closed-minded so much as that I'm familiar with the arguments already and have opinions about them.

@xuebaiqiang 11 лет назад

May I recommend a book to you--one of the 2 or 3 best books I've ever read? Thomas Merton's THE ASCENT TO TRUTH, includes very helpful explanations on how to distinguish between true mysticism & false mysticism. In an almost poetic manner, this work also reveals something of the splendor of truth thru profound meditations on Carmelite spirituality. The writing in it is so beautiful & elegant that this book should be regarded as a literary masterpiece in the English language, religous or not.

@gesz90 12 лет назад

So it's in the Eucharist that we as the bride, receive the groom and become His body, which is what Paul says in 1 corinthians 10:14-17.. The Eucharist is where the spouses give themselves to each other, consummating their marriage. In our human marriage, it would be the same as to ask "why is it even important that the spouses make love".. Our marriage with Christ is different, so is the way we consummate it.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

I was mainly reacting to his assumptions about me, personally, which seem entirely unwarranted. I realize people's religious faith is often rooted in subjective experiences they attribute to divine presence. I can't prove those invalid--but of course they're hard for me to take at face value, either, having never had one myself (though I was raised as a Christian). My interest is faith has mainly to do with trying to understand something that is so important to others who I share a world with.

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

Okay, I see. You're right: whether something is knowable or not may have an objective "yes" or "no" answer that we just don't know. Speculating on the unknown is subjective, but I guess I was the only one doing that. You said "mystery" doesn't necessarily imply a lack of sense, rather it "may be beyond our own abilities" to understand--also true. My subjective claim is that the eucharist ONLY makes sense in an historical context, not a spiritual one. If you disagree, that is also subjective.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

"Flat earth" theory is an interesting reference point, given that the majority of popes would have supported it. My concerns were mainly that there are only so many hours in the day. But I have read the introduction, and will send you some thoughts on it via the RU-vid message function. I will try to read the rest of it when I have more time.

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

@bleedingcry Bc he is referring to how in the old testament God fed His people bread. Just bread. Bread that fulfilled their temoral and bodily hunger. The Eucharist feeds them w/ JESUS...not just bread. satisfying an eternal hunger and need. And translation clearly indicates a gnawing/physical eating. & Jesus emphasizes it multiple times to clarify (u must eat my flesh). It is spiritual also. Nobody ever said it wasn't. But also a physical mystery. chk that link I put, i think u will like it.

@only1wayJC 11 лет назад

The Eucharist sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who "have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified," (CCC, p. 345, #1371) This is in opposition to Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus," Hebrews 9:12, ". . . with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption", and Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

@JohntheJigglyuser 11 лет назад

They are allowed but it's not allowed very often because we are both in schism with each other. It has to be in more extraordinary circumstances. You will find more similarities than differences in doctrine between the Churches, but since one is Western and one is Eastern (though there are Eastern Catholic Churches) it may be "packaged" in different theological language.

@only1wayJC 11 лет назад

Some of the Church Fathers, who were not Catholic because there was as yet no Roman Catholic Church, wrote of the necessity of belonging to the Church. They were, of course, referring to membership in the True Church, which is the Body of Christ and whose membership is comprised of all those who are truly saved by God's unmerited grace, through faith alone in Christ alone.

@wjm5972 6 лет назад

who were these fathers

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

There are things we don't understand--on that we agree. Whether or not we should or will ever be able to understand them is subjective. Neither you or I know for certain whether human beings will ever comprehend the origins of the universe. We can, however, make informed judgments on our ability to comprehend things. Understanding the incredibly complex workings of the human mind is a different sort of challenge than the meaning of a specific ritual, which surely is MEANT to be understood.

@medusa210562 12 лет назад

"For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself," (Heb. 7:26-27).

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

My point with the historical stuff is to suggest that because eating Jesus' flesh seems so bizarre and disconnected from what Christianity seems to be about, the best way to understand it is as a continuation of historical rituals that predate the Judeo-Christian tradition by thousands of years. My question is why Catholics seem to think it's so important to view eating Jesus' flesh as a literal act, and not a metaphorical one. Fr. Barron is very specific about that.

@martlut 11 лет назад

1374 The mode of Christ's presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore

@xuebaiqiang 11 лет назад

Hard time locating your question about non-forgiveable sins... Any sin can be confessed and forgiven in either tradition. However, in the Roman Catholic Church there are a small handful of offenses that are supposed to go to a higher level to deal with. And of course, remarriage after divorce requires special procedures (annulment process). Remarriage in many cases is more easily granted in the Eastern Churches but there are symbolic penances (further from the altar, darker wedding dress).

@martlut 11 лет назад

In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.73 Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

@splashenful 12 лет назад

You are right in the beginning of your post: The Lord Jesus "is weirdly insistent." He Does Not Try to Explain away what He Just Said in this chapter. Only insists that true disciples will eat His Flesh & drink His Blood. Elsewhere in the Gospels, when disciples do not understand what He Is Saying, Jesus Explains away the Teaching. The fact that He Does not do this here, only means that He Was Being Literal when He Said to eat His Flesh; drink His Blood.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

I think I'm beyond anything a pope would have to say, but if it will make you feel better, I'll look at it. Do you really think it will change my mind, or the mind of anyone who is a thoughtful non-believer? If so, please let me know what part is so convincing, so I can keep an eye out for it.

@xuebaiqiang 11 лет назад

Eastern Orthodoxy does not use the category of mortal vs. venial sins due to a difference in approach (more pastoral or experiential than juridical) but acknowledges the same reality: there are sins that lead to damnation or loss of salvation. Clinging too tightly to a list that says some sins are "only" venial and recognizing as sins only acts done with knowledge that they are wrong has unintended consequences (e.g., legalism, spiritual immaturity); EOrthodoxy raises the bar on this.

@gesz90 12 лет назад

They NEED to be taken literally because we're not free to read the Bible however we please and if Jesus intended it literally, then it MUST be read that way. It needs to be taken literally for the same reason the canon of the Bible cannot be changed, it was defined by the magisterial authority of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church, passed down on tradition, and recorded in the Holy Scriptures. It needs to be taken literally because reading it differently is against Scripture.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

As I've said, I think it resonates if read symbolically, while a literal reading defies logic. Necessity v. reality--sure, but since we can't know if it's real or not, it's all about conjecture and what we trust more: religious teaching or our own faculties. My hypothesis is based on history predating Judaism, but most ancient mythologies surely see "reality" unlike we do, and may not even make a distinction between "symbolism" and "reality"--Judaism included. We are not obligated to agree.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

Well, that's smart, because it obviously doesn't change in any observable way. But what's hard for a non-believer to understand is why it's so important for believers to insist that there is a change on that Aristotelian level--i.e. why believers react so negatively to the idea that it's a symbolic ritual. That combination of assertions--this is real and significant though not something that can be proven or even observed--is for me a good analogue for religious faith itself.

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

Actually, there's nothing subjective about what I just said. Not sure what you mean. I'm talking about the idea of a mystery or something beyond our own capacity to understand it. That's not subjective really. And the origin of the universe is exactly the same kind of mystery...which was the point of the comparison. Anything that deals with the mystery of substance and reality is directly related and completely the mystery behind the Eucharist.

@Wadj1 11 лет назад

I'm probably naive, but I've never had trouble accepting transubstantiation. Jesus said we should eat his flesh and drink his blood in a mysterious but physical sense to nourish our spiritual bodies. If he had meant it to be symbolic, he could have and IMO would have said so. I don't take the authority from the Church, but from Christ himself. I feel a physical and spiritual difference after participating in the Eucharist. It's the most powerful witness we have. Again, just my 2c :) Pax et bonum

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

@misthotos Catholics also believe in salvation by Grace alone. But's got nothing to do w/ the fact that Jesus himself said repeatedly & very clearly that we must eat his flesh & drink his blood (literally - yet mysteriously) to have eternal life. It's also what 1st Christians believed. The Eucharist we believe in is the SAME "Him" that we believe in anywhere/anyhow. We believe in Him everywhere he comes to us - both spiritually & physically. Both in his own body & through his body the Church.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

If you don't mind, could you explain how you're using the word "accidents"? I think I have a sense of it, but I'd prefer to be clear.

@stevesilvia 11 лет назад

We all live with faith everyday...so faith is not something new. We learn to live by faith with everything we do. Is there anything that you do that doesn't require some amount of faith?

@PInk77W1 5 лет назад

O Godhead hid, devoutly I adore thee

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

You may be right, but a couple of questions, if you're willing: 1). What, specifically, is your objection to the word "magic", and how does your word for what's happening differ from how I would broadly define "magic" (i.e. causing something that transcendsthe usual laws of physics to happen)? 2). What would it take, in your opinion, to demonstrate "genuine interest"? I am genuinely interested in this topic; I just don't have the same interest you have, or at least not for the same reasons.

@mmmail1969 11 лет назад

Firstly, it's not weird at all, it's central to every human state of being. Ask your Dr, what we eat truly becomes part of us, our food choices have very important impacts for us! It is this most basic physical truth that God used as the central platform of His loving plan of salvation. We can "eat" healthy or unhealthy foods, we can also "swallow up" healthy of unhealthy spiritual practices - God wants us to fully take in, not a "body" in human terms, but the Devine Body of Christ!

@stevesilvia 11 лет назад

Why is it unnecessary? To be conscious of faith, you believe it to be a part of your life. What part of faith are you conscious of in your life?

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

That helps me understand where you're coming from. I would go on to say that since we can't really know for sure whose claims about metaphysics are true, we should try to get along and remain humble about our own beliefs. That doesn't mean we can't have spirited debates about religion, of course. Did you say you have converted to Catholicism? What attracted you to that particular form of Christianity?

@splashenful 12 лет назад

The reason He Used the "Substitute" was because He Wanted His disciples from ALL TIME to eat of His Body & drink of His Blood. Remember, at the Last Supper, He Said, "Do this in remembrance of Me." This was something His Apostles were also supposed to do: Change plain bread & wine into the Literal Presence Of the Almighty. Because He Did this, we now have Him in all the Catholic & Orthodox Churches right down to this day. Christ Is Present in all the tabernacles in Churches all over.

@jontv7350 12 лет назад

Remember: I was listing reasons to start from the assumption of religious symbolism. 1. All religion is mostly symbolic. Much of its truth, beauty, and power come from symbolism. Most Christians would admit the Eucharist is largely symbolic, even those who think it's literal as well. 2. I would love for you to cite another Biblical reference that supports the eating of human flesh. 3. Right, which is why we tend to assume that a person is not a god unless given evidence to the contrary.

@Pi10sco 12 лет назад

@misthotos When we take communion, we are participating in Him through our faith in the Eucharist, and by following His specific instructions to his Apostles, who are our spiritual forefathers. One Holy and Apostolic Church.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

No Pope is going to fully & rationally explore the question of whether Catholicism's assumptions are correct or not. Institutional commitment forbids it. I have never claimed that Catholics are wholly unreasonable. I think much if not most of the work in that tradition is done by extremely thoughtful, smart people. But their central premise is really hard to swallow, for many of us who look at the bigger picture--world history, comparative spirituality, science, secular philosophy, etc.

@only1wayJC 11 лет назад

The bishops assembled at Lateran IV cited the above words of Cyprian as support for their position that outside the Church no one can be saved. They did not look to the inspired Word of God as found in the sacred Scriptures for their support, but to the words of a man and then changed their meaning to point to the Roman cult and not the True Church as was Cyprian's intention.

@FromAcrossTheDesert 12 лет назад

Kiwi this is intriguing. Please provide your references! I heard the people of God had no trouble believing in the "real presence" until the 15th century. Also, how do you explain the Biblical account of Jesus in John 6? Jesus said "eat my flesh" and "drink my blood" and offered no correction. The disciples who left saying this is "too hard to believe" understood him perfectly. Either Jesus allowed them to misunderstand or he really meant what he said. "Do this in memory of me" Believe.

@MatthewWarner 12 лет назад

@Ndftblwannabe1 Sorry about that, I misunderstood where you were coming from and which you were responding to. Sorry about that!

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

And really, my historical arguments aren't necessarily in conflict with Christian belief. I think my reference to the difference between OT & NT political geography is solid. The subjective part is my inference that Roman repression influenced the change in policy toward burnt offerings. That may or may not be true, but either way, one could still believe that Jesus fulfilled the need for sacrifice or redefined it--just as millions are able to reconcile evolution with belief in God as creator.

@FaithandReason101 11 лет назад

cont. #2 it was and is never enough for people to observe things from the outside. we almost always want to 'be part' of a good thing. So it is with love of God, and offering our love (love is sacrificial by nature). we dont want to just 'observe' Christ's sacrifice for us, we need, desire, yearn to be part of it. The Eucharist is just that, our participaton in the Sacrifice of Christ. We literally become what we eat...not fully, yet. That will be heaven.

@xuebaiqiang 11 лет назад

... an open-minded but properly grounded Christian will connect better than an real atheist. Don't be afraid to jump in the water when you do hear the Voice someday (which can take myriad forms & not necessarily sensory) and it's obvious you aren't hallucinating. Do give Merton's ASCENT TO TRUTH a chance; you won't regret it.

@only1wayJC 11 лет назад

Some modern Catholics might ask who is Adam S. Miller and what authority does he have to define RCC dogma? Valid questions. The answer, of course, is that Miller did not define this dogma but merely included it in his little book of more than 110 defined dogmas of the Roman cult. A dogma, for those who might has slept through catechism class, is a teaching that every Roman Catholic must believe as a matter of faith - that is, without reservation - lest he lose his salvation.

@jontv7350 11 лет назад

And that, as I've tried to explain, is a large part of my fascination with transubstantiation. It is a place where (as we've seen here) reasonable Catholics who value clear thinking feel compelled required by faith to dig in their heels and defend something that has no basis whatsoever--except Catholic tradition. Seeing it as a mystery or a symbol would be so much more tenable, but that's not good enough. The Catholic tradition is 2000 years of trying like hell to explain something inexplicable.

@francisxcc 12 лет назад

Throughout the OT, God was preparing His People for the Eucharist. Per the Law, no Jew could eat blood, because blood represented the soul - it was life. And all life belonged to God alone. Hence, in every sacrifice the blood had to be poured out below the altar - returned to God. Man was never to look to the blood of any animal for life. Only in the fullness of time did God's own Son, Who is Eternal Life, give us His own blood, saying, "Unless you drink MY blood, you have no LIFE in you."