As a Mechanical Engineer, I do really love to hear your explanation in the minutest of detail Iain - there is no amount of nerdiness that is too nerdy. Please do not feel this is excess nerdy for your audience Iain. You have a unique audience here who loves this level of detail.
I'm not entirely certain that it's our obsession with mechanical minutiae, but rather your brilliant explanation, and perfect presentation of the subject that fascinates your viewers, Iian. Save for that one bit at the end!
I appreciate that Iain’s confidence in front of the camera has grown and allows us to see his “chippy” sense of humour. I really enjoy that about this channel.
That's been yet another fascinating and instructive video, thank you Iain for doing this! And don't worry about explaining "nerdy" stuff, as that's precisely the kind of content I crave, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone...
Great stuff Iain, again! Takes me back to my early London motor trade days. The Iron Bridge garage, in Hanwell/Southall in 1967 and we had a '57 Hooper bodied Silver Wraith (with the big P100s) in the showroom. I sold it (making me extremely popular with the management, albeit temporarily...) and had to get it out and around to the workshop for PDI etc. It was parked just inside the big sliding glass door and I had yet to open that. (I'm sure you know where this is going). I got in, fired the old girl up, stuck her in 'D' and she leapt forward with my foot hard on the brake pedal and took the showroom door out in it's entirety. For the reasons you have so admirably explained above. Luckily, the descending shards of glass appeared not to have damaged her, and the sales manager seemed completely torn between rage at the damage to the door and relief that this long-stay patient was at last leaving us. At that time, Iron Bridge (then part of the Noel Bell group) had a group scheme for best salesman, and it was based on the number of points awarded to each car sold, judged on it's "sellability". The old Roller had been around for a day or two and had many many points awarded to her. As a consequence, and based on only one car, I got the award!
Fantastic episode Iain. Pushing the rev limiter on the nerdometer is EXACTLY why we love this channel. There are plenty of RU-vid channels devoted to driving exotic and interesting cars. The nerdiness is what sets TCW apart. That and those introductions to shy Italian giants of design and engineering. Wonderful stuff. Thank you! A secondary benefit to your approach is having a video record of a lot of technical componentry that might otherwise be lost in the future.
I remember that braking system from my Bentley S1- weird and wonderful. Mine only gave me problems on very wet days when the brakes became almost useless which was interesting and I think the issue was a wet disc on the servo unit- I just stopped using it on the really wet days. . Parking also was a challenge because the brakes could not operate properly at very low speeds and the S1 had no power steering. I remember being fazed by the left side wheel lug nuts as they had to be undone clockwise but the usual CCW on the other side. Interesting cars and I really miss mine. Mine also had flaking paint on the tops of the fenders in the depression. There are no MOT's in BC, Canada but I have yet to hear of an accident caused by a failure of some suspension or braking component. People usually have a good idea when their brakes don't work any more. Now I have an old V12 Jag with no MOT either but I keep an eye on things as all the enthusiasts do here. .
I owned a Shadow II for 5 years, different car, different brakes, but I still get the shivers when I think back to the moment where I had a brake failure and nearly rammed into the back of another car. So this video reminded me of that. Smashing video anyway, thanks.
It's amazing that something so complicated, finely tuned and exposed to the elements ever worked for any length of time. I don't think I'd have been brave enough to drive it if I knew just how fragile the whole thing was!
What a complicated system. But cleverly done. The description of "bizarre functionality" is the right adjective. And yes - for all the nerds in this world, your channel is just the thing !!!
Thank you, Iain for these videos. I'm so glad Harry talked you into doing them. Where else could we be able to see how these fascinating systems work! Please keep making videos. The nerdier, the better.
My dad went to England in the late 1970s, bought a 1960 Bentley S2, and shipped it home to the US. It had been originally purchased by the actress Vivien Leigh from Barclay's of London (he had a copy of the original title). He spent a number of years restoring it and I remember the brakes being a challenge (#$%@!!), but he persevered and brought it back (paint, interior wood, engine, leather, carpets,etc.) to excellent condition. He would occasionally put on a black "chauffeur's cap", let us sit in the back, and drive around the city. He had grown up during the Great Depression and it was his dream to own one, and he did!😅
Please keep the technical content coming - these are fascinating. I had no idea such a trapeze mechanism existed. Clearly not a particularly redundant system for such an important safety item!
Thank you for this video. I restored one of these brake systems about 10 years ago in Cleveland. It was a sharp learning curve! Explaining to anyone who wasn't there had proven impossible. Thank you for the amazing work you do.
As a self-professed auto nerd, thank you for the insight. Its an interesting point that the large Bentley weighs 2 1/4Tonnes because that is close to the weight of modern large cars particularly those with electric propulsion, so from that perspective its not heavy at all! Drum brakes are much maligned but principally they are more mechanically efficient than disc brakes, disc brakes do score however where the brakes generate excessive heat from repeated use or heavy applications like down hills. Its no coincidence that Mercedes, Porsche and BMW have parking brakes operating on drums in addition to the four wheel discs because of their mechanical reliability for parking. Parking brakes operating on discs can lose adhesion when they cool down particularly after a 'hot' stop together with poor mechanical efficiencies in applying the parking brake effectively. My Skoda Superb has a warning in the handbook to park the car in gear on a slope to prevent inadvertent movement after the brakes cool down. This VAG system uses the worst of both worlds - a parking brake operating on the disc and a solenoid applying a less than possible clamping action. One point that puzzles me on the S2 is the use of a large Jubilee clip around the friction servo that doesn't seem very Rolls Royce!
Fascinating. Usually I'm not into the nitty gritty all that much so deeply, however Tyrrell's Classic Workshop certainly always do venture my absorption of the engineering bits due to the captivating style of presentation. Excellent, and thank you so much again for this remarkable upload for learning about this particular aspect of a classic R R and Bentley.
Magnificent detailed analysis of a very complicated system. Say what you like about multi million £ super cars, but in my opinion you can and never will beat a grand old lady like this. An associate of mine was a chauffeur many many moons ago, and when the "boss" died left him a stunning Silver Cloud is his will. No idea what happened to him or the car, but for the next two years the love my friend gave to that car was breath-taking. He must have been one of the few chauffeurs who turned up to work in a Rolls!!! Thanks as always Iain for another entertaining video. Where would these grand old ladies be without you !!
I learnt about these brakes many years ago from John Bolster's book "The Upper Crust". I thought that the original H--S system employed a small drum brake as the servo motor, the shoes of which rotated constantly on a shaft from the gearbox while the drum, on a single hinged mounting, tried to rotate when the brakes were applied. This was prevented by a cable or shaft, which in checking that motion, added the resultant torque to the main braking mechanical system. It revolutionised the stopping ability of heavy cars and the servo motor brake shoes were said to never wear out. I understand that the pre-WW2 V12 Packards used a licensed version as well. Trust Rolls Royce to make something complex out of it! Like the nerdy little 8 year-old whose motto seemed to be "Never use a short word if a long one will do!"
Fascinating - I drove an R Type Bentley for a while. No idea of the setup but the brakes were more of a disinclination to proceed than anything as coarse as stopping.
Your RU-vid videos cannot ever be too nerdy ! That's because the strength of RU-vid is appealing to a niche (though not that small) audience, starved of nerdy details by the mainstream media outlets (worst being Top Gear) that cater to the average Joe who barely likes cars... Thanks !
One thing one would never forget is getting out of a tight parking space on a cold engine with the choke on. If one does not know that the only brake one can use is the handbrake, one is into a lot of trouble and damage to one’s car and to others’.
The weight, the load on the axle, shifts to the front regardless of the type of suspension. It even shifts on vehicles that lack all suspension. The dynamic center of gravity shifts on all vehicles.
In a spirit of true nerdiness, the servo brakes were introduced on the Silver Ghost in 1924. I love the R Type and S series, but when manouevring you soon learn to keep your foot lightly on the pedal as you change direction, or it takes a few inches of no-brake panic before the servo comes in, so then you naturally press the pedal harder and screech to a halt when it does. But once you learn the car there is nothing better.
your not only a great PR person , but a Mecanic , that makes it more interesting , dare i say ( as you would say it in a very gentleman way ) love the chanel
That was totally brilliant thank you so much. I have heard that the system was 'different' but left in limbo by other commentators on how it was different. Quite a clever system really. I just love those old drawing showing all the layout and parts. More please if you feel like it.
I was born in 1957 in a rural town of Lichtenburg in South Africa. I have seen some of these exotic cars being owned by the hoi poloi in town, not much of them except the one person, a reputable diamond dealer in town and the Member of Parliament who had a Jaguar 7 series, This however spins my interest to see the engineering of these vehicles from the era I was born and grew up in. Thanks for your program, much appreciated and enjoyable.
As the new owner of a 63 Silver Cloud 3 this has prompted me to ask my garage to double check its brake set up! Great video. It helped me to understand what good braking performance should be and also explained why at low speed you are under the impression it might never stop…
Really loved this, the nerdy stuff is great. You took an absurd and complex mechanism and made it understandable. Looking forward to similar content, I’m here for these kinds of details and deep dives
Great to see a heavy car like this dancing under brakes like a Citroen 2CV 🤣😅 I had to do 8 weeks of "industrial experience" as part of my engineering degree and was lucky to spend it working at the RR Crewe factory in the summer of 1969. 4 weeks in the engine repair shop, where I "helped" a fitter building reconditioned 6 cyl engines and 4 weeks in the apprentice school, where I learned how to use milling machines, lathes, etc. I also spent a couple of weeks updating the Silver Shadow show chassis to the latest spec. While I was there, we were visited by what I think was the 1929/1930 Speed 6 "Blue Train" Bentley. The owner had dinged the sump pan and was able to get a new old stock one from the spares dept.
Nerd-o-meter indeed! 😂 Fascinating video, beautifully explained both verbally and visually. And it DID stop on a dime, who'd have thought a two ton plus behemoth could come to a halt so rapidly. Drum brakes at the front may fade on repeated applications on the Stelvio pass or the Nurburgring but in real world driving they're massively powerful. We used to have a Luton bodied Commer van with drums on the front and when a child ran out in front of us heading for the ice cream van, our Commer stopped in an instant.
Perfect expression Mr Tyrrell 🙏 That is 1of the most complex braking systems ever! I believe they take 18” of wheel roll to start braking! As you say It is petrifying! Not to mention countless bumper kisses!
Ian, another great video about the engineering intracasies of higher end automobiles. Also your test braking section did show very well the dive properties associated with the Bentley chassis design......very good.
Great video, easy explanation of a what looks like a complicated for complicateds sake system, lots of places for it to seize up as well by the looks of it. You’re definitely a lot more comfortable in front of the camera as well compared to the early videos.
fabulous explanation of this system. I knew a little bit about but really enjoyed the details. Having driven an S2 on a tour of northern Scotland, I can attest it does work well if properly adjusted !
Thank you, Mr. Tyrrell for this very interesting video! I do hope that you will make some more videos on what you are going to do with this 'Beautiful Beast'.
Loving this. Thank you so much. You are filling in the void that LJK Setright left wrt to well-articulated explanation of fascinating automobile technology of the past.
It's interesting to learn about the evolutionary dead ends in engineering. Great ideas that were either too complex or impractical to dominate the general car market, but worked, sometimes better than the more popular, but easier to maintain and operate systems.
David Ogilvy 1959. "At 60 Miles An Hour the Loudest Noise in the New Rolls-Royce Comes from the Electric Clock", (except when you jam on the brakes ...) People who feel diffident about driving a Rolls Royce can buy a Bentley (A Bentley is $300.00 less than a Rolls Royce) One of the most famous automobile ads of all time, a legend. That ad turbochargd RR sales in the US almost overnight.😄😄😄
I own a 1964 S3 and have had the brake system overhauled a few years ago at considerable cost and I took some time to study the system with it's complexity. I find the Rolls mechanical braking system to be over complicated to a point where I would like to modernise it with front discs and another form of servo. I have seen a S3 with front disc brakes on youtube but it wasn't featured. Seen most of your videos and love them.
Mr. Tyrrell, you're a rare breed who adds tremendously to not only the car world but the world in general. A brilliant gentlemen who I'm terribly envious of as well. Top shelf channel and content!
Ian, your videos are the Holy Grail of classic car garage work. Presentation, explanation, expert collegiate information, history and your attitude are exceptional. You’re blessed to have such wonderful associates there. I just wish you could service my humble mint Citroen BX 19 Gti 1987 model. She needs your expert attention.
Loved this video. Guess an owner of a Roll Royce or Bentley of this era would not let a current RR/Bentley dealership, with their 'plug in and go' computer output, to decide what's to be done. And no tools in the workshop. Scary. Experienced this with my 1986 Ferrari. More of these please.
At 14:22 Iain shows off his brake bleeder tool but alas it is not. He is holding a Bluepoint USA 1515 pry bar / aligner (jemmy) and it probably has a diamond shaped date stamp on it which is circa 1980 when a lot of these were made. Nerd award please 🙂 Ex R/R & B out........
Yes, Sir Tyrrell, REALLY. Remember what seems commonplace to you, to the point of not even thinking about it, even while performing the task? Is interesting to us gear heads. Especially when the majority of the cars you wrench on, we don’t hardly ever see over here. Thanks again for showing us.
Always liked these since Stanley Baker drove one in the 1967 film Robbery,a heavily fictionised account of the Great Train Robbery.There,s an excellent interior shot of the car going along the M4 with the speedo needle between 90-100mph.Happy days just before temporary 70mph introduced when became permanent soon after.You can access the movie on youtube!
You can be a s 'nerdy" as you like. Many years ago I used to work in a workshop where we serviced many RR and Bentley products and the chap who had been a RR apprentice was the only one who understood the mechanical servo. None of the rest of us would be allowed anywhere near it. Like all these things setting up is a matter of practice and training. Your explanation has answered questions that have haunted me all this time. At 75 I suspect I will not be putting this new found knowledge into practice!!
Good video Ian. Tx. I’m not convinced that a primary safety system which doesn’t work if it’s not carefully set up can be thought of as good engineering though! The mechanical servo is interesting. Using the cars’ energy to actuate a control is the same principle as an aircraft’s servo tab. And they’re still in use!
Reminds me of the first time I had a look under my Riley RM after I bought it almost three years ago...been a student of Girling Brakes ever since: hydraulic upfront and mechanical in the back. Since I don´t quite understand them despite all my hard work and dedication I am resigned to packing a parachute and an anchor for auxiliary deployment...
Yours is the very best video on this Heath Robinson…I mean…Hispano-Suiza braking system I’ve EVER seen. What an excellent treatment on the subject! Mahalo!
I can attest to how scary it can be when these brakes have not been carefully & properly adjusted, by someone who is _"in the know"_ ! The rear shoes do all the work in the first few meters of travel and, if the linkages are not precisely tuned ... BANG !
Thank you for another very enlightening and explanatory video. I remember The Motor (or was it Autocar?) back in the day, commenting on the 'delay' before the brakes activated and how unsettling it was until you got used to it and made necessary allowances. Hardly surprising that there was a delay given the complexity of the system!
Thank you, I really enjoyed the explanation. I like seeing unusual auto parts and unconventional methods of building cars. In 2006, I had an interesting discussion in auto repair class, and it involved a Rolls Royce. I was explaining what a Nissan GT-R was to someone who had never heard of one, non-gamers in the USA didn't know what one was. I said that I loved it so much, I didn't think I would feel worthy of the honor of repairing one. My teacher said "A customer brought in a Rolls Royce for repair and I did do it." I am certain he understood what I was thinking and feeling, even if I couldn't explain it well. He also said that in the repair shop, there was a bump that you would drive over in order to determine if you parked correctly on the vehicle lift. However, the suspension of the Rolls Royce was so effective, he couldn't feel it. He had to ask for someone to watch and see if he stopped the car in the correct location. I thought that was fascinating. I'm not sure what Rolls Royce it was, and I know the repair did not involve brakes. It was leaking antifreeze, and the cause was determined to be the water pump. However, the honor of being selected to repair something so special must have felt incredible. In the case of this Rolls Royce, it appears that the mechanism was good, but once someone was able to make a vacuum boosted master cylinder with variable proportioning valves, that special mechanism was no longer a benefit. It is interesting to see a mechanical part get replaced with a different mechanical part, rather than just see some computerized parts replace all mechanical parts.
Very impressive and fascinating in several ways. I'm particularly impressed by Mr Tyrrell's personality as a distinguished, very sympathic British gentleman and as an authority on classic car knowledge.
What a fabulously complex looking brake system, which certainly fuelled my ‘inner nerd’, excellent video, I had read of the S/Silver Cloud breaking system, but now I understand the low speed braking function, that didn’t previously make sense 🤓
Love these little details that we would otherwise never know about and interesting to see what engineering design was like back in the days before everything became electronic.
"Back and to"? That's an interesting hybrid of to and fro plus backwards and forwards!! A characteristic linguistic clue if someone ever claims to have worked at Tyrrells!!!
