excellent work Matt! I actually use grey primer, and with black, pre shade using the marbling technique. So the model will have overall black marbling over grey primer with various size squiggles and various intensities depending on the parts of the aircraft for tonal variance. Then with the CoIor of the aircraft, I once again use the marblimg techniqe over surface, and with this I get much more contrast with the marbling. Works a treat!
Many thanks for this excellent and detailed insight into the 2 different approaches and all the explanations that come with it, I am just about to start using pre-shading and alreaddy did my first black basing model.
Don't be afraid to try this out, you will get a very realistic result as long as you do a good job on the marble, and be very careful not to cover up all the work you did with the final coats.
Weather you "black base" or "pre-shade" you need to use proper spray painting techniques. If you are using small strokes stopping and starting on the surface you are painting, your going to get that "bombing" the paint look. I've used both techniques and have had really good results. Now I have settled on a sort of hybrid technique. I start with a black base, then I marble it, then I do the pre-shade, then I do just a little more marbling to sort of tone down or "blend in" the pre-shade, then I finally spray my top coat using proper spray painting techniques (i.e. start the paint flow off the object and with an even "speed" pass over the object completely and start the "return pass" from off the object and repeat. It's always important to pass over edge to edge and not stopping over the object as you were doing on the final coat. I'll have some videos coming up in the next month or so. I'm waiting for someone items to come in then I'll start work. I honestly hope you don't think I was just trying to rip you and your work apart. I just think you could have done it a bit better. My point is no matter what technique you use don't forget proper airbrush etiquette and you should have great results.
Great demo, Doogs! have been wanting to give this technique a try, but may be difficult on the 1/72 scale kits I build. Looking forward to the next installment!
Three things I saw you were not doing to make the pre-shading work out: 1) thinning of the paint correctly for the pre-shaded areas, 2) thinning the overcoats or the top-washes for the pre-shaded areas progressively, to achieve the right/desired effect for the final coats. 3) You applied the top coats for the pre-shaded areas using a fine tipped airbrush, when all you needed was something like a .35 or higher (.5 needle like with a Patriot 105) to get a more solid layer from the get-go. Pre-shading is less about detailing, and more about an overall basis for a underlying paint scheme. You seemed to be caught up in the minutia of the painting process, before you had laid down the foundations for the general undercoatings. I can see why you like to noodle on the variations over a base of black, and to be honest, I layer over black undercoating myself, but your criticism for pre-shading is misleading when you improperly apply the technique.
I am using Vallejo Black Primer & AK interactive paint. I am using a Harder & Steenbeck Ultra to do my airbrushing at 15 PSI. I lived in Singapore which is near the equator.
Although I enjoy 3rd & 4th gen aircraft, I now want to build something from WW2. I prefer the " Marble" method over pre-shading & have developed my own way of getting that worn paint job over the years.
I always enjoy your videos and respect your opinions and abilities. I am not clear, however, on all the drama these two techniques seem to generate (with several other folks as well). I mean, these are two different techniques with two different outcomes. The "right" one depends on the desired outcome, doesn't it? Personally I will use either, even the 3rd hybrid version you mentioned by pre-shading then going back in and hitting the panels with smatterings of some darker color(s). I never feel "dirty", guilty or wrong for using either technique. It really depends on what you like or are looking for. I know pre-shading isn't, strictly-speaking, particularly realistic ... but neither is anyone going to mistake a Monet painting for photo-realism (even in the early 1900's), but that's not what he was going for. Unless you are doing miniatures for movie Special FX or such, I think the "right" technique is the one that suits YOU the most. Just thought I would drop my 2 cents in there. When I got into modelling I never realized how much drama there was in it. Anyway ... keep up the great work and videos! Always Inspirational and informational!! Peace!
so true, i watch youtube modeling vids more out of boredom than anything......i got my own style thru messing around (the most important part) and stayed with them. My customers' compliments and wallet opening are all i need to see value in my modeling ways, I'm my own fcuking tutor and inspiration
Have to agree, I use youtube videos as a form inspiration to get my ass into gear. I guess I do a combination of the 2 techniques as well. I put in a black primer, then I put in the marbling inside the panels. I find this brings out the panels in a subtle way and I still get the random shade changes.
Good point Scale Model Videos. Pre-shading, in my opinion, is a technique used to enhance the gap between 2 aircraft panels. Using Paul Budzik's example from his technique video, "Creating Scribed Detail for Scale Models", assume the gap between 2 aircraft panels is a "Generous 3/32 or .09375". If you scale that down to "1:48 scale .09275 / 48 =.00195", you get a gap that's a shade under 2000th of an inch. To be fair, Paul was referring to the scribing of panel lines and not necessarily the painting them. However, his logic can be applied to the pre-shading technique demonstrated in this video in that the panel lines can be exaggerated due to the scale of the model, which may be exactly what the modeler is attempting to achieve. Whereas Black-basing is a technique used to replicate the effect normal usage, the sun, and the environment will have on an aircraft’s finish, which as you pointed out, is a different outcome.
Hey Matt, I have a technical question regarding black shading. I'm doing a SBD Dauntless in the Midway scheme extremely faded like they all were by looking at all the pictures. So if I want to do it as faded as possible, should I still do a black shading or white shading ? What would you do ? Thanks Ben
hey man! I had never heard of this technique before a guy on the FSM forums in the RAF group build mentioned it, and now, I wish I had seen these videos before painting the camo on my Lancaster! interesting! I tried once or twice the preshading technique and wasn't very pleased with the outcome...I'll have to give this a try!
Great video. Thank you. I use black basing pretty extensively after discovering your article through /r/modelmakers. What impresses me more than the technique itself is that you have almost zero overspray on the backdrop. What PSI are you spraying at? Do you have any tips for airbrushing with either Tamiya or Vallejo model air lines?
I usually spray between about 8 and 15, but it depends on the particular paint, prevailing conditions (humidity etc), and airbrush I'm using. For Tamiya, the best results, hands down, are thinning with a gentle lacquer thinner like Gunze Mr Leveling Thinner. And thinning a lot - my starting ratio is 2:1 thinner to paint. My best tip for airbrushing Vallejo Air is to throw it in the trash. I kid...kind of. I've found it decent for base coats, but watery acrylics just aren't formulated for the small-and-thin airbrushing I prefer. If tip dry isn't an issue, overspray is. If overspray's not an issue, paint stability is.
Many thanks. I typically run my Tamiyas at ~20 PSI, thinned 1:1 out of my Iwata HP-CS. I'll play around with thinning them some more and running them at a lower pressure.
I don't even understand why these techniques would ever be made into a dichotomy.... You use both to good effect. One I suggest would be black base > marble > preshade > cover layers to thinner degrees/ This would achieve a good deep look of textures. This is a way of getting flesh to look much more real: layers and layers with intermittent shading and overcoat if necessary or desirable.
..I thoughroughly enjoy your video's. I'm new to mottling and black basing. I am trying my 2nd low viz all gray Navy jet. Would you recommend a mottling stencil for painting the mottled coat? I tried this on my 1st model. Its quicker, but not sure if the tonal variation of the gray can be controlled as well. Can I use darker/lighter grays on the mottled coat to achieve variation on the final blend coat?..thanks
Stencils can be very useful, but you have to be careful or it's a shortcut that'll show through. Already seeing a lot of builds where it's pretty obvious what was used to do what. But as part of a well-balanced marbling, they certainly have a role they can play.
@@DoogsModels I just black based and mottled an A-4 Skyhawk. I practiced on a piece of styrene. I do like the hand mottled vs the template. I made a mistake with some tape masking. An area didn't get mottled or built up with gray. It is a black strip..3/4" wide. It was such a disappointment as I took my time. Do you think thatI can mottle and blend that into the rest of the fuselage??
Hey Doog, I know this is an old video and you may not see this comment, but I have a question for you...I'm about to try black basing for the first time on my Tamiya 1/48 P-38G, but I'd also like to do some chipping effects with MIG's chipping fluid and Mission Models Aluminum...any recommendations for the order in which I should paint? I'm struggling to logically think through it since these are both new(ish) techniques for me. PS I just found your website after watching your videos for a while, and I love it!
So - I would be very hesitant about using MMP as a chipping base. I've seen some horror stories of builders burning through it down to primer and/or plastic when chipping. I'd suggest a more robust silver - Tamiya AS-12 (decanted) or LP-11 are great. So is Gunze C8. From there, I would do 1) silver chipping base, 2) chipping fluid, 3) a very half-assed layer of MMP black. You don't want full coverage - you just want to knock down the brightness of the silver, as it'll cause headaches with what I'm assuming will be olive drab. And 4) olive drab. The half-assed black will help you keep things tonally consistnent without running the risk of leaving little patches of black in your chips.
@@DoogsModels Hey Doog, or Matt? (I've just started following your videos/blog). Thank you very much for the recommendations!! I followed your advice, but upon reflection not to the T, and my results suffered a bit. That's okay...won't make the same mistake next time. I applied too much chipping fluid, and got really large flakes. I applied too thick of a MIG matt black black base over the chipping fluid, and had to really scrub the paint to get down to aluminum...that led me to accidentally scrub down to the plastic, too. Might be time to search for a new primer as well since that's a BIG issue. I'm gonna try to get some LP-11 after watching one of your pony bash vids since I've got some mustangs in line, too. That being said, lotta learning points on this build! I did have great success with black-basing though...very pleased. So, some positive lessons, and some negative lessons. All are good lessons. Thanks again for sharing your insights with all of us!! -Andrew
How the heck do you maintain a constant stream of paint while marbleling??? I'm using harder&steenbeck with 0.15 nozzle with very thin (80/20) mixture but every couple of seconds I have to re-pull the trigger to kick start the flow again. Sooooo annoying!!! Please help
What is your thinner? Iso or similar is going to flash evap and start drying paint on the nozzle. A lacquer thinner like Mr. Leveling thinner or tamiya should work better. If you're already doing that, then trying lowering air pressure a little.
shaddiesel I make no claims to be the inventor of anything but maybe the name. Just a natural evolution of a few approaches/techniques. Glad it's working so well for you though!
Jeff Vader you can, in the sense that you can effectively "reverse pre-shade" by just staying away from panel lines where it may be appropriate. If you jump to the grey-green camo installment later in this series it's touched on
I enjoyed the information and the demonstration. I would have enjoyed it more if there had been a script, and segment planning, so that the same information was not repeated several times. It would have been more enjoyable to see a more condensed presentation. However, i will be checking out more of your videos.
Yes but I don't think it holds quite as well on armor and prefer using darker tones of whatever color the camoflage is (so...brown under desert tan etc).
So reading Fine Scale article on the "realistic" vs "artistic" methods of painting, and just asking can we all get along, which seems to be the best path. I really have to say that this preshading thing that I first saw friends doing about 15+ years ago, is absolutely crap. Aircraft, or for anything really are not jigsaw puzzles. I just dont understand when either going to shows, or just meetings, why people paint like this. Its like the man bun of plastic, just doing it because everyone else is. Kudos to you for just showing this inane process, I would rather smash the model with a ball peen. Maybe suggest to the next preshade painter you see, he tape a beard on it.
Enjoyed the the video but not clear on the technique for the green overlay. Is just a random airbrush movement or do you have a pattern in mind when you spray?
what's the big deal? it's not like he is trying to persuade the viewer in either direction....if you are easily persuaded, and you are watching this video because you like the presenter, try going into the video skeptical, and draw your own conclusions. ..
Pre-shading/black basing does not offer up a scale finish. Like you said, it provides character to the paint. Nothing more than artistic licence. I’ve never an actual aircraft that had pre-shaded panel lines. As for black basing, maybe a multi grey Camo scheme might benefit from the black basing technique. When I judged model aircraft categories, I docked points for pre-shading. Accentuated panels lines are scale, pre-shading not.
