Black Monday: The Eighth Air Force's 250th Combat Mission 

Thanks Jim. One of the really positive things about you tube comments pages, among all the negatives, is that people can relate real personal history such as your contribution. Much appreciated sir.

Wow. Those Dutch gave their lives for him. We don't hear enough of this nor do we show enough appreciation for all the Dutch civilians that helped our guys. Your grandpa was fortunate to live through such hellish times.

Your Uncle Lloyd Freeman was in my Dad’s airplane. Flakstop. Lt. Alan R. Willis. Freemen was actually the ball turret gunner. He was one of 5 who survived. His is an incredible, remarkable story. He also survived the Long March as a POW. There is a monument to the crew outside Staphorst Holland, in the field where the plane crashed. Your uncle was interrogated in the hospital by the Gestappo and refused to give information about the survivors, which enabled them to avoid capture. He saved the lives of four men including my Dad. The greatest generation.

He was awfully lucky that he survived the war

​15,000 dutch joined the Waffen SS@@olliefoxx7165

Bill Baker if he completed his 25, they were flown during the worst of the 8ths fight. The mission requirement was increased to 35 as air superiority and proper escorts were achieved. Not that the boys later in the war had it much easier, but those guys that had to fly 25 were facing nearly impossible odds.

Bill Baker: Mate I worked with a man who did 70+ missions with the RAF Bomber Command

@@hoatattis7283 Half of US Army Air Force casualties were from this conflict 25 and 35 missions (115k personnel). You gents had about the same casualty rate but double the amount of missions 70+ (125k personnel). Thanks for providing this valuable information on sorties.

@@MusicForTheBroken With the US it was not safety in numbers I am afraid

was his name martini?

My great uncle was a seabee in the pacific. He never talked about the war. He reportedly just painted camo on tanks for the whole war. Sometimes I wonder...

Years ago I read a book on the experiences of a bomber group in North Africa. The Army and Air Corp were very short of men so people were doing duties they normally did not do. The most humorous was a guy in the chow who got a slap of mashed potatoes. He looked up and saw it was a Lt.Colonel serving chow.!!!!

@@TheBcambron Bet he did a lot more than that. My father-in-law always the SeaBees were the hardest working guys in the Navy. I'd estimate the majority of islands/atolls captured and turned into airstrips and forward base facilities are pretty much unknown and unsung by historians. Ever hear of the Green Islands? Me neither until my dad in law mentioned it because he met Richard Nixon (yes the Pres) there. But that's just one example of countless construction projects in obscure places built by SeaBees, sometimes under enemy fire which is why they had some infantry training.

Your uncle sir, was a hero.

The 'Forgotten 15th' didn't get the glamorous reporting the 'Mighty 8th' did--probably because the 8th had London to party in and the 15th had folks living in tents in Southern Italy where there were (to quote Telly Savalas from Kelly's Heroes') there was no booze, no broads, no action. That being said the 15th was lacking in adequate numbers of escort fighters so even though the strength of the luftwaffe was much weaker in Southern Europe, they often inflicted VERY heavy casualties on the bombers of the 15th. For example, during 'Big Week' the 8th suffered about 5% casualties but the 15th suffered nearly 14%. Maybe, someday, the 15th will get it's 'Roger Freeman' (a premier British aviation historian and I think the man who coined the expression "Mighty Eighth')

Yeah that was a great thing you were able to do for him! And Really nice of you! Thank You from Everyone! God Bless Everybody!

Great story.

He regularly attended the reunions in England. He knew Norwich very well.

Awarded the DFC for his service. Actually two, and numerous other decorations.

If you have ever seen Strategic Air Command, you actually see Jimmy fly a B-36 and a B-47. No stunt pilot. No CGI. All very real.

A friend's uncle flew in the 8th Air Force for fifty missions and the voice in his headphones was usually Jimmy Stewart's. He never could watch Jimmy Stewart movies afterwards, reminded him too much of the war!

@@1QU1CK1 I served in the Cold War and actually had PTSD before joining the military. I can't watch graphic violence without becoming physically ill and having nightmares, so I respect the uncle's situation.

Props to your grandfather and dad, I love that movie. The name of your town reminds me of the Ford's made with the same name. They use the older Anglias here for drag racing a lot. What do you think about them, if I may ask?

Brian Garrow do you know if your father ever did any nose art?

@@preiter20 I asked him before he passed away and he said no. There were better artists on base. But he did do some poster art for dances and unit morale events. I am sad to say he didn't bring any of them home with him. He did regret not getting a chance to do nose art, that was the ultimate for the artistic types stationed in base. The most unusual photo I have of him is with his maintenance crew and Clarke Gable.

F

God bless your brave father and all his pals.

It'd be great if you could share that art online to memorialize him. I, personally, would love to see it. You could load it up on RU-vid or Facebook, Pinterest, all free accounts.

He sounds like a real patriot and hero. Thanks for sharing that. Almost every life on earth touched by that conflict and it still echoes to today...

Another one of the many we owe so much to. I vote because hitler wanted us not to be able to. I go shopping because osama bin laden wanted us not to be able to (I know, it seems trite in comparison; but that is what their objective was: disrupt and destroy the western world’s economic engine... so, because I’m not qualified to be field personnel, I do what I can to deny them their objectives). And I do so remembering the people who fought and sacrificed to make it possible.

Dad was a B-24 navigator, he used his old flight jacket for hunting and fishing trips when I was a boy in Maine

30 missions. Wow. Thanks

Cheers to you and your dad, Rob. My dad was a pilot as well; B17s and, later, B29s. He spoke little of his experiences until his was quite old. Many fascinating (and sometimes terrifying) tales, though, when he decided to share. Here's to our fathers. They were very young and very brave.

Well put.

They give you medals for being shot down and put out of the war?

Stalag 1 in Pomerania was one of the safest places in Germany in 1944 ... of cause a bit cold in 1945

John Smith I’d like to see you go through a hail of flak and fall out of the sky over enemy territory...

@John Smith Are you really serious or merely trolling?

@@thadlm2698 What did the bomber crews who dropped their bombs and returned to go back and do it all over again get?

I just hope this is not going to turn into a limerick or go very visual. Going to Nantucket with a huge load of disgusting grey goo everywhere is now a mental image thats very hard to get rid off. There were men from Nantucket, with clam chowder in their pocket... No. Gotta stop.

Here here !!! And what a loss it will be. Being just a wee bit older by months than you. I grew up as a kid where everyones dad, uncle or grandpa served in WW2, or at the least Korea. This was the norm. And we took it for granted then. It was not till my late teens that I fully realized the horror, sacrifice, hardship and pain that these men experienced and shared together. I remember a kid around the block whoose dad was brutally marched by the Japanese during the infamous Batan death march and then held as a POW till the Philippines were retaken.They were our mentors, our teachers, coaches, Boy Scout leaders, bosses, mailman, mechanics, doctors ministers and friends dad's. They set the tone, the standard for how we were supposed to act and carry ourselves in life. We grew up hearing the stories and implemented the phrases and terminology they used into our own. And as such I feel blessed, proud and lucky. They were the greatest generation, a whole generation that walked tall and carried themselves with an unmistakable military bearing. And we, their offspring, lived and grew up in the immediate shadow of this remarkable greatness. We who witnessed these men first hand they set the example for us to follow. My dad was one, an Army staff sergeant, with a combat infantry badge, serving in an infantry heavy weapons platoon, now in his 90's he is one of the dwindling few that remain. I would not have wanted to be brought up any other way. The discipline, practicality and determination instilled in me has made me a better person, self reliant and a survivor. Thanks to you Dad, and your generation. Now the question is ........ What the he'll has happened to us as Americans since then ???

@@bobgarr6246 Oh they are still around, they just don't make the kind of noise that get you noticed! They are the guys that get up every day and keep the country running.

My Dad cried when he was told he was 4F because a hip injury at age 13. He couldn't go to war with the rest of his friends. My brother & I made up for it by going to Vietnam.

@@bobgarr6246 like my father, your father was probably from the middle class, or the working class as it was called back then, not college educated and proud to serve (8th Army Air Corps)even if they did not have to do so since your 2 older brothers were serving which was my fathers case. As a small child, I could not figure out why I could only see my father on weekends at the hospital as my mom was working, I found out when he came home they were putting his leg and other body parts back together from all the Nazi shrapnel, not to mention giving up the dream of becoming the major league ball player he hoped to be (he was in the minor leagues at the time he enlisted) or a champion middle weight boxer he hoped to be (was a club boxer in Philly before the war) When they got together to play card games like Canasta, and the young kids would get near enough to hear, they would stop talking. Or when I asked my father "did you kill enemy pilots in the War" he answered yes and I am not going to talk about it. Years later as the executor of his estate I came across a sealed cigar box and when I opened it, out fell 16/17 war medals, Purple Hearts, silver medal, bronze and assorted flying and Battle medals, I thought, you were right Dad, you don't have to talk about it, Your medals say it all! He was buried at Arlington with thousands of other American heros.

that obviously didn't happen tho. Why would you go on the internet just to tell lies?

G'day, Ah, well, as it happens, there are no Odds. No Bookmaker on Earth would ever bet on the idea that a "Silver Dollar" worn in a Shirt-Pocket is, was, or ever will be able to significantly defect either the 7.7 mm Mg Ammunition, or the 13mm and 23mm (?) Automatic Cannon Shells fired by the Jagdwaffe & the Nachtjagdwaffe in Reich-Defence Missions in 1944 against the US Army Air Corps. I'm not saying that your Dentist made up any Fairystories, and his recollection of his perceptions at the time are quite possibly perfectly accurate, & his Souvenier bent Coin was probably genuine and not any kind of fakery. But the interpretation placed on that underlying Evidence appears to be wildly fanciful. If that "Silver Dollar" had been hit by a Luftwaffe Projectile which had merely come in through the Aluminium Skin, then the Coin would've been pushed through & through the Pilot/Dentist's Chest, then gone through the Seat and lodged in the front of the Armoured Bulkhead which protected the Flight-Deck from Gunfire coming up through the Fuselage from Fighters expected to be attacking from the rear. The 1/2-Mass times Velocity Squared equation versus the Hardness-Rating of a Silver Coin, divided by the Impact-Pressure of a Coin's Surface-Area onto Meat & Bone...., collectively leaves no room for, "Oh But....-isms". My (wildly speculative) guesstimation is that one of the attacking Fighter's shots has hit one of the Steel Nuts on the Bolts which secure the Perspex "Fishbowl" Nose onto the Fuselage, or one holding the Windscreen-Frame together, or the Instrument-Panel Mounting..., the Fitting has then instantly shattered under impact, perhaps with the detonation of a Cannon-Shell having added to the resulting Shrapnel-Cloud ; and then the Silver Dollar has been clouted by a Nut, or a Bolt-Head, something chunky and significantly harder than a little disc of Currency-Grade Sheetmetal. So, the Pilot's Lucky Coin has indeed probably saved him from needing to have a lump of Shrapnel removed from the Flesh over his Ribs, or from his Intercostal Muscles...., perhaps he might've missed-out on a Punctured Lung...? But anything which bounced off a Silver Coin was probably never going to reach the Pericardium or pierce the Heart. One has to consider the Physics, the Ballistics, the Metallurgy, the Anatomy & Physiology..., when considering such "Magic Bulletproof Charm/Amulet/Coin/Steel-Bound Bible" stories. One famous example which did actually occurr illustrates what it takes to save Aircrew from a Mg Bullet in Aerial Combat... In the 1920s a collection of Aerial Combat Photographs called "The Cockburn-Lange Collection" was published with a Diary ("Death In The Air"), purported to be the work of an anonymous, deceased, RFC Scout-Pilot...; the photo's were so very clear & graphic that for almost 40 years controversy was still ongoing, as to their authenticity. In about 1953 a pair of Suitcases were donated to the Smithsonian Institution, and in about 1958 someone finally got around to looking inside them...; only to discover a USAAC WW-1 Pilot's Uniform and a set of US AAC Dog-Tags, together with the original Glass-Plate Negatives of the Cockburn-Lange Collection - including several showing the Behind-The-Scenes views of the Models & Ladders & painted Backdrops - used to fake them all..., and also there was a 1911 Automatic Colt Pistol which was bent 45-Degrees sideways, through the Reciever...., and it's Shoulder-Holster with the Bullet-Hole & torn stitching. That Pistol took the Bullet, breaking the Pilot's Ribs, mid Dogfight in 1918, knocking him unconscious - and after his Nieuport crashed itself he spent the rest of the War in Captivity. Apres Le Guerre, he pulled off the great "Death In The Air" Sting, and for a while afterwards he made movies - but he could never put DITA in his CV when applying for Jobs, so he never really got much of a chsnce ; and once the Great Depression hit the World he became something of a bitter has-been/wannabe dypsomaniac and he lived in Cuba till Castro took over there, and finally died penniless in Florida. Whereupon his surviving family then quietly donated the Suitcases, instead of dumping them. But - there you go, an actually doccumented case of a Pilot taking a Machinegun Round to the Chest, over their Heart, & having the Bullet be successfully deflected...; but it bounced off a 2 or 4 pound lump of tempered machined Steel, strapped firmly in place with a Leather Holster, and he woke up on the Ground, after the Crash - not after 15 seconds of being conscious of the Pain in his Chest. Details matter, least little Molehills - impressive as they may be, come to be spoken of as having been "Mountains". Such is Life, Have a good one. ;-p Ciao !

I like how people forget that the bullet or shrapnel or whatever it was also had to pass through the plane first. Also that miracles exist. Cheers!

That almost sounds like the story of Lt. George E. Dixon of the CSS H.L. Hunley. He was shot in the leg at the Battle of Shiloh in the American Civil War, but a golden coin he kept in his pocket as a good luck charm saved his life. It wasn't so lucky when Hunley sank. The coin was found in his possession when the Hunley was salvaged, and it is currently on display in Charleston, South Carolina.

@@nonAehT G'day, Perhaps you were a trifle harsh, olde Bean...; they may be ignorant and gullible rather than wilfully lying... Check out my attempt to educate them with an actual explainification. Such is Life, Have a good one. ;-p Ciao !

Matthew Jones I’m ashamed to say that is something that had never occurred to me until you brought it up...Good Lord, they all must have had balls of steel.

The P in PTSD is Post, As in after. What they’re most likely experiencing is intense fight/flight/freeze, what we call “going into the black”. The closest condition would be CSR, combat stress reaction. I have seen these responses firsthand in combat.

@@CDSAfghan He said the survivors of black Monday. That's post, as in after, black Monday.

@@brianwoodbridge88 Exactly why we do not want to go to war with China - and they know it. We are the Germans now (precision) and they are the U.S. (quantity has a quality all its own)...

The USAF of today can unleash any scale of attack needed with unrivaled precision. From a single scumbag in an SUV in the Middle East to Global Extinction. Your military capability assessment is lacking.

@@brianwoodbridge88 tee hee

@@peachtrees27 With ICBMs the US can destroy China 3 times over in a afternoon. Give Iceland enough ICBM silos and China would not go near them . WW2 thinking is gone and never coming back. Nobody wins the next big war and it will be a 6 hours long.

@Jacob Zondag A guy I knew was a young teen in the Netherlands during the war. He could always tell what kind of day it was going to be by the number of bombers flying over. Sometimes it seemed the bomber stream had no end to it.

The Dog's Butler those all came from the National Archives. What a coincidence that it was your grandfather’s crew!

your grandfather was a crew member of Hell's angels?

@@clevernamegotban1752 no follow up in 7 months.... yeah

@@jasoncarswell7458 Why do people lie about stuff like that?

Richard Smeets Thank you and your countrymen for remembering.

Richard Smeets, another sincere thank you. I know their families appreciate this.

Thank you Netherlands and please keep up your great work cheers from Australia

Thank you.

Thank you with all my heart,from the UK.

8th Air Force casualties exceeded all marine casualties in the Pacific combined.

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel That fact is staggering. I told someone that the other day and they were shocked. So many aspects of WW2 are hard to even fathom.

The attrition rate was so bad for the bomber units they were snatching up anybody, cooks, longshoreman, i.e. anybody they could get to fill in the crew spots.

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Wow..hard to believe....tremendous sacrifice from the greatest generation.

@@dragonsword7370 My grandfather was a nose artist to waist gunner. He was a good shot survived 17 missions and prison.

I've been there. Well worth the visit.

A wonderful museum indeed!

I was there in November and when it opened years ago - My Great Uncle in Law had some of his brother's 8th AF stuff and placed most of in Archives - he passed away in the 50s. Brother John use to live there and volunteer. John passed away two years ago.

There is a Plaque there for my Fathers Plane the 'Fatso' Lief H Nelson.

I spent a good three hours there in January of 2017. I was on my way home to FL after attending my uncle's funeral in NC. He was a fighter pilot in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam.

My grandpa was a trainer pilot. Him like you father played an important but unappreciated part in the war. Respect to all the men who served, even if it wasn't glamorous.

My grandpa was a mechanic with the 8th Air Corps, 336th Fighter Group, he was eventually sent back to the States where he was a major player in adapting the Merlin engine to the P51. RIP Robert A. Mullen (2008).

The infrastructure needed to keep 'em flying was amazing in it's own right

The bomb loader whose foot got crushed in an accidental ground mishap suffered no less than an aircrewman whose foot was shot off; both were honorable casualties but sadly only the crewman was awarded a recognition medal for his loss.

My family lost someone in the airwar over Europe, I'm sure his parents would rather he had been a cook and came back alive instead of getting a folded up flag and the right to say their kid is buried in Arlington.

Do you call yourself a vet of the Cold War?

And horribly inefficient as well.

@@LokkieF Why not?

Ron Fullerton because you are a vet when you fought in a war. During the Cold War I was stationed in West-Germany. Do I call myself a vet of that 'war'..? No, ofcourse not.

I wonder what he dreamed of.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lIJN6WWf3Rg.html

You would of appreciated such a conversation. They were a great bunch of people. Their great spirit and humanity really made me humble.

@@ronfullerton3162 I very much appreciated him as is. He was our funny uncle and everyone loved him. I've known many of the greatest generation and I used to ask questions about the past. The War was just something that wasn't talked about much and I was leery to bring it up

@@timgelder4263 When they were ready, they would talk some. At the start it would be funny or interesting stories. If they started going down a sad story aisle, you knew the stories were soon over. One sad memory almost always ended story time. Lots of feelings bottled up inside those poor guys.

If he was anything like my dad he NEVER talked about it.

Doing your job is dropping bombs on homes, children and normal people. The military was not nearby Real courage would be to protest this.

@@JasperKlijndijk - You seem to conveniently forget the thousands of V1 and V2 rockets Nazi Germany fired at England, indiscriminately killing innocent people. A true terror weapon. Bombing targets such as Berlin with the many factories there is entirely different than, "dropping bombs on homes, children and normal people".

@@HiTechOilCo Why even try to explain what was going on to someone that can not see the whole picture.

@@HiTechOilCo A V1 has 1000 lbs of explosive and the V2 2000 lbs , a 4 engine Bomber carries 7000 lbs and the sent them day and night in the Hundreds. Not the same thing.

@@JasperKlijndijk You might have the desire to sit down and take the bullet but as for me and my house, we will always fight back. In theory, peace is the balance of violence. However, in practice, violence is balanced not by a lack of violence but by violence of an equal nature, moving in the opposite direction.

F

WW2 had been running for five years before Pearl Harbour if you were Chinese and over two years for pretty much everyone else. December 1941 just marked the defeat of the "America First" isolationist faction in Congress and the German American Bund supporters who wanted America to support Germany against the Soviet Union.

@@allangibson8494 - Yes, but for the United States, WWII officially began when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

@@HiTechOilCo As usual - late to the party and still ill prepared. WW1 went the same way - with US forces armed with British designed rifles (because they didn't have the production capacity for the standard Springfield).

@Ordinary Sessel The US was handed Iceland on a platter - British forces then withdrew. The US Congress had a vocal pro-German element including the representatives from Illinois and New York state's. It took Pearl Harbour to muffle them. Post war Senator Joseph McCarthy took up the same line and suppressed the war crimes trials in Europe.

You actually believe that God blesses those who drop bombs on innocent men, women and children? Interesting deity you have there.

@@thunderchief7 We are talking about a mass murdering dictatorship that was bombed. Those "innocent citizens " would have gassed you to death simply because they saw you as sub human.

@Despiser Despised Way to young, a small child at the time

Perhaps Germany should not have picked a fight.

​@@Weshopwizard Perhaps the US should have seen Pearl Harbour coming. Perhaps USSR should have removed Stalin after the war. Perhaps, perhaps. Steuart's comment has a lot of history in it. It's not every day you get to hear/see the experience of the guy on the other side of the fence. Your comment brings nothing but useless and obvious 20/20 vision, good work. 5 gold stars for contributing.

@Despiser Despised Germany elected a National Socialism party, which was about as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Republic. We know this because A) Socialists and anyone on the left were persecuted by the Nazis and B) Their greatest foe, the USSR, quite literally had the term Socialist in the name. I would strongly recommend some reading on the beginnings of the Nazi party and what happened to the handful of people that actually thought it had Socialist leanings. You may be enlightened.

@Despiser Despised Warning: Those who equate nazism with socialism will be haunted by the ghosts of Dachau.

Unbelievable.

When you are in a real bad situation like that, all your energy goes on survival, not worrying on death. If there is absolutely nothing you can do and you stop fighting the inevitable, you can actually feel.. invulnerable. You are going to die for certain, and theres nothing worse the enemy can do to you. All the chemicals of the situation running in your system, the possibility of doing damage on the enemy with your dying breath, even dying without fear can make you feel oddly jubilant. Of course, your mood before will have a huge effect: if you are just a cab driver for a delivery of bombs, its possibly very scary. If you are out to fight it out, you are much more likely to go spitting them in the eye as your last deed.

@@scottward7813 yeah, might want to fact check it, seems like this guy likes to tell a lot of stories

Imagine dying burned by an incendiary bomb in your roof when you're 6 years old. War criminals that's what they were. I'm glad of their miserable deaths and hope they are rotting in hell. And no, I'm not a Nazi or a libtard.

@@facundoverag No, they weren't war criminals. The horror you describe was, and sadly is, real enough. Damn the "great men" and nationalism which caused the war, not the people who committed those horrors because they lived in a world where the alternative was worse. I recall a combat veteran saying something profound. It was probably a quote from someplace, but he spoke it with an unmistakable personal truth: Dying for your country isn't hard... killing for it is another matter. BTW: The US generally undertook daylight bombing. Not that it wasn't horrible with huge numbers of civilian casualties, but it was a choice which those who made it knew would increase the number of crews killed to at least slightly increase the chances the bombs would fall on their targets instead of random houses. The British air command chose to do night raids because they thought the additional losses from daylight bombing would not have been replaceable and would make losing the war even more likely. Imagine how horrendous that decision, either way, had to have been.

Yes please do ! My current hometown

Dude, I'm an hour from there and didn't know about that museum. Thanks! Gonna check it out!

I went through there 20 years ago. My wife's father was in the Mighty Eighth Air Force.

www.mightyeighth.org/

@@olliefoxx7165 it's in Pooler. Right off I 95

Box D

D

3 years at Mildy for me back in the 90s. 488th IS. Best assignment I ever had...

My Grandpa was in the "Bloody Hundredth" during WW2. He said that the Germans particularly went after B17s with the D on the tail. The reason the Germans hated those planes even more than other US planes stems from an incident where a bunch of German fighters surrounded a B17 and the B17 lowered its wheels which was a signal it was going to surrender. When the German planes flew in close to the B17 all of the B17s 50 caliber guns opened up and shot down several of the German planes. The B17 was also shot down. They went out in a hail of bullets. They really went out of their way to target 100th bomb group airmen after that.

@Call Me Ishmael I'm just repeating what someone who was actually there said to me. I'm not saying they didn't go after other planes, I'm saying that if they were flying down on a group of B17s and saw some with the D on the tail, they might prefer to shoot at those. My grandpa's story appears in a book called In Harm's Way written by Paul K. Cashdollar. His name was Michael G. Polanick. In the paperback version his chapter is on page 164. He was on a B17 that made it through the Black Thursday mission but was shot down I believe before Black Monday. He made it through 23/25 missions and then became a prisoner of war for 13 months. Eventually the prison was liberated by the Soviet Army.

Scatter bombing a city full of civilians when in 1944 the Russians were on a unstoppable march to Berlin is not heroic to me. They Bombed Dresden for last just because it was the only untouch city left 2 months before the war ended. It war untouched because it had no Military targets.

@@Crashed131963 Correct.

@@Crashed131963 The USAAF in the European and Mediterranean theatre had a policy to only target installations of military importance with what was attempted with precision bombing (Norden bombsight which didn't work with clouds and smoke pots). Civilian areas were to be avoided and not specifically targeted This is not to say that civilians were not killed however and there were many targeting errors. This policy was different from the policy of RAF Bomber command whom used area bombing of German cities (which the Luftwaffe used on the U.K. and other countries Warsaw,Rotterdam etc) However area bombing was used by the USAAF over Japan as is historically known

@@m9078jk3 Towards the middle the US were just scatter bombing with incendiary bombs with the intent to just burn the cities like the RAF. They destroyed Dresden in just two raids , nobody is that bad of a aim.

@@Crashed131963 None of my fathers targets included any civilian targeted areas in the 15th AF the targets were oil refineries and storage,Luftwaffe airfields,tank factories,shore gun emplacements,bridges,rail marshaling yards etc. I have his records and his bombing photos as well.

Mankind must put an end to war , before war puts an end to mankind. John F. Kennedy July 1962

One thing you learn about history is that people never learn.............

@@BHuang92 stupidity does seem to be redundant... does it not ??

John Combs politically and socially, the world is trending toward repeating history.

John Combs well said! It true that we totally repeat our selfs. If you take the time line of the Roman Empire you will see the current empire is very similar. Luck we have the history guy.

True. Can you imagine having to pick your poison? Either drown in a sinking sub thousands of miles from home or fall to your death thousands of feet from the ground. Think I'd rather fly with a parachute on my back.

@@olliefoxx7165 Death of a ball turret gunner From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State, And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze. Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life, I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters. When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

@@stevenwiederholt7000 yeah, that's horrible. Forgot about that position. There was no way to bail.

Don't forget also: - The poor infantryman with the flamethrower on his back! - The merchant marine sailor in the convoys to Europe and Moermansk.

@@stevenwiederholt7000 I rember reading that very poem to my classmates in 6th grade. The teacher did not approve but some of my friends "got it".

So was every Marine.

edshermer: Every Soldier sailor ans airman of the Australian forces was a volunteer

Twice, once to enlist and second time to fly.

Godfail. Sadly, God did not bless them. He cursed them with a horrific casualty rate.

The first time I got a really good close-up look at a B-17, what struck me most was how knocked together they looked. In some places, it looked like the skin had just been cut out with a set of tin snips and riveted in place with a 'that'll do 'er' sort of attitude. After seeing modern aircraft with their tight tolerances, it was a bit of a shock. That makes their performance and durability even more amazing. I think anyone who's studied WWII bombing has been shocked by the damage some of those planes were able to take and keep on flying.

Bob, I toured the same one. There was a man speaking to people under the wing who had been a pilot who had pieces of shrapnel that had been removed from his leg. Unfortunately the B-17 is no longer there. I also toured one at Salem last summer and a few months later one crashed and burned with 7 lives lost. It was the same plane

Well said, Ray!

You are very fortunate!

I took a ride on "Fuddy Duddy" about 15 years ago (Aluminum Overcast was in maintenance). What an awesome experience! Not cheap, but well worth every penny.

ive been inside Aluminum Overcast, but not flown. i cant even imagine how epic that would be

I have seen many pics of that plane, thanks for sharing Mike

HiTechOilCo someday we’ll get to the bottom of why Patton, a great man actually died thing would I am sure been different had he lived

@@simonedwards5070 - There has been a book written about this very topic and the author spent many years researching it. Was George S. Patton Murdered? New Light on an Old Conspiracy --- warfarehistorynetwork.com/2017/06/30/was-george-s-patton-murdered-new-light-on-an-old-conspiracy/

Most of the episodes I'm only listening to while driving or working. I always return to the episodes later to watch them, but they are so well made you can learn so much without even seeing them.

Mine as well. 😊

My english teacher in high school was a tail gunner on a B-17. I asked what that was like. He said he was airsick often because he was bounced around so much. He also said that he was cold all of the time.

@@The_Dudester - Yes, the B-17's were not pressurized, so the air from outside the plane came into the plane and it was well below zero at the altitudes the B-17's flew at. With the waist gunner positions being open to the outside air, the tail gunner was subjected to a 200 mph+ cold blast of air coming back right at him.

I was watching an episode of "The Memory Project" a couple of weeks ago, and one of the participants was an 8th AF bomber crew member. He was talking about the cold, how some crewmen lost fingers to frostbite, and how the aluminum skin was so thin you could practically punch a hole in it with your fist.

@@norton750commando Take a look at the nose of a 707, 727, and 737. Look at the nose of a B-17. Notice something? The aluminum skin of today's jetliners are thicker than the skin of WW2 bombers and fighters, but they also take a lot more stress due to pressurization and speed. Consider the Aloha jet that lost it's roof when it was inflight. It was a miracle that it survived. Yeah, bombers of the 8th had thin skin, but those bombers also took a lot of damage-coming home "on a wing and a prayer".

@@HiTechOilCo Or the Sperry Ball Turret, that if it lost power, you were stuck in it!

WW2 was truly a war of desperation. If the Allies failed the world would have become almost entirely fascist governed. By 1944 that much was obvious.

h lynn keith: And the 6 x50s was just good enough they should have used cannon

Many top P-51 pilots preferred the B/C model over the D, especially when the former were equipped with the English “Malcom hood”.....a kind of early bubble canopy that gave adequate rearward but superior downwards visibility. Bud Andersen and Walker Mahurin both preferred the B. Yeager apparently favored the D for its greater firepower.

@Call Me Ishmael That is just the point The 50 was not that much faster than the Hispano

@Call Me Ishmael Yes you are correct the USAAF pilots generally were not good shots

@Call Me Ishmael My friend your Best was Capt Gentle 1 x Fw190s 162 rds AND 360 by Maj G Carpenter 2 X190s RAF Dick Audet 5 enemy in 7 minutes and never touched his 50s and the best Wing Comd Cunningham 1x Me410 40 rounds at NIGHT

America's Greatest Generation is very well named.

yes

The sad fact is that we were willing to sacrifice those men knowing that we could replace them. Such is war.

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Dogs have been used by the U.S. military for more than a century. Around 5,000 dogs served in Vietnam as guard dogs or scouts. When soldiers finished their tours, another handler was assigned to dogs already in Vietnam. After the war ended and troops returned home, the dogs were deemed excess equipment and left behind - many were euthanized, some were given to the Vietnamese army and some were left to fend for themselves. The point I'm trying to make here is that in war, the combatants are, in the literal sense, just equipment; repairable and replaceable. This view is held by all sides as a necessary reality else strategic goals would never be met. A Vietnam Vet, 1969- 1973

And probably 10,000 Berliners killed that day , so 700 seems like a one sided exchange.

John Smith it’s not really “an exchange”, it’s a tragedy on both ends. There is no justice in war, all war is criminal. It is the manifestation of humans failing to understand one another. So again, it was not an exchange. It was a tragedy for all mankind.

@@HE-162 So, by that logic, rather than go to war with Hitler and Japan, it would have been better not to get involved while they went on with the destruction of nations and massacres of people. So, you, personally, are willing to take a bullet from a Nazi execution squad or have your head lopped off just because you're you from a Japanese soldier under orders from his officer in the name of peace thinking that will bring it about. More power to you, brah. I can think of a lot of people who remained thankful their whole lives that the Allied Armies of WWII resuced them from death in concentration camps throughout Europe, but if you're willing to stand idly by while others die, I guess that's your prerogative. Maybe if we just understood Hitler and Tojo better he would've left Europe alone. Would you like to purchase a bridge?

They're not a user-friendly plane, are they? Single purpose, to deliver bomb tonnage. A lot of sharp angles and metal projections inside the crew areas. I wonder how many injuries occurred just from banging around in the plane.

You're right... I live in Michigan and I don't have a clue as to what you're referring to. What happened to make it so notable?

@@silentotto5099 Tigers won their first world series (Oct '35), Lions won their first NFL Championship... yes, the Lions were once good! (Dec '35), Red Wings won their first Stanley Cup (Apr '36). It's the only time that any one city has have three winners of championship game/series winners in the same sports season. Add in many other sports accomplishments by Detroiters in that era (Joe Louis, Gar Wood, Detroit Olympians (minor league hockey), and many other minor sport athletes) and Detroit picked up the nickname "City of Champions." You can read a lot more here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Day

@@rrbee Wow... Certainly nothing like that has ever happened in my lifetime.

@@rrbee Jets win Super Bowl III, Knicks win NBA championship, Miracle Mets win World Series, 1969-70. Only the Rangers were still languishing in oblivion. Someone wrote a book about the NY Miracle season, I think it was Art Shamsky of the Mets. But Detroit was first, by 34 years.

@@robertrabinoff6181 That wasn't in one sports season though. Now, the idea of a "sports season" is somewhat nebulous... I think most people, at least in the NA, think of it as the year that all the 4 major league start through the end of that season. For example, the 2020 sports season includes the 2020 MLB season, the 2020 NFL season (which ends in 2021) the 2020-2021 NBA and NHL seasons, which both start in 2020, but end in 2021. Still, as I said, there is no set definition on this so it's possible there might be some instances where a single city has three (or more) of the major four in a differently definite "sports season." BUT: your example is not one of them (unless I mixed up dates some how). The Jets won in Jan '69, which was really the 1968 sports season by my definition. The Mets won in 1969, the '69 sports season by my definition. The Knicks won in May of 1970, but because this season started in '69, I would include it in the '69 sports season. The problem is that even if you want to redefine a sports season, by the time the Knicks won their championship, there was already a new SuperBowl Champion crowned (Jan '70, KC Chiefs).