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Blindly Following Catholic Tradition 

Brian Holdsworth
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Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
If you'd prefer the podcast: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/
In the beginning of the movie, Fiddler on the Roof, they break out into a song about Tradition where the main character admits that some of the things they do, they don’t understand. They do them for “Tradition”! That’s the great chorus they sing out.
And in many ways, that story is about the collision of Tradition with new and emerging, “progressive” ideas of the modern world.
But from that opening chorus, it’s easy to conclude that tradition is something we blindly adhere to without employing our reason or critical thinking. It’s the lazy reliance on a way of life without ever challenging yourself to think for yourself or progress to something better than your ancestry would allow. It’s a mark of fear and ignorance rather than courage and enlightenment.
And there may be some truth to that. There are some traditions that we inherit that you could say we blindly follow simply because they are traditions. But does that make the alternative more prudent or discerning?
Well, let’s take some time to consider why traditions exist at all. Tradition is what happens when ideas, practices, beliefs, and culture are passed down from one generation to the other. And why exactly do we invest all the effort it takes to transfer these goods from one generation to the next? It’s so that our descendants won’t have to unnecessarily solve every problem that has already been solved.
If we made discoveries and acquired knowledge and customs that have a clear benefit to us, if we truly love our fellow man, which includes our descendants, then any good society would want to save them the trouble of having to go through all the sacrifices, danger, and difficulties that we had to in order to overcome our adversities.
If we’ve already mapped out certain landmarks of the human experience, it would be cruel and evil to withhold the knowledge contained in discoveries from future generations. As I spoke about in a previous video, this is the whole reason we have education, to transmit knowledge and culture which means the work of education is inherently a process of a living tradition.
And a lot of people seemed to misunderstand what I was saying in the past about that. This isn’t to say that there is no room for innovation or authentic progress - there is, but the only way you get progress is by starting where your ancestors left off. You first have to inherit what they have to offer, become intimately familiar with it, and then build on from that point.

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11 ноя 2021

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Комментарии : 208   
@Chamindo7
@Chamindo7 2 года назад
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." ~ Gustav Mahler
@4thlegion253
@4thlegion253 2 года назад
Couldn't agree more!!
@Snoopy-mo4hw
@Snoopy-mo4hw 2 года назад
I was a teacher. I always said, “Why reinvent the wheel?” Such a waste of time. Tradition follows these same rules.
@stevedoetsch
@stevedoetsch 2 года назад
Not everyone follows tradition blindly, but all those who follow the times follow blindly.
@jonathanstensberg
@jonathanstensberg 2 года назад
Here’s a tradition we can stop blindly following: Daylight Savings Time.
@jacobaverill2793
@jacobaverill2793 2 года назад
😂
@Tttb95
@Tttb95 2 года назад
Its more traditional to not use it!
@tMatt5M
@tMatt5M 2 года назад
Preach
@petop3
@petop3 2 года назад
But there is a reason for it, it's not just a tradition.
@oambitiousone7100
@oambitiousone7100 2 года назад
This channel has the best intro/exit music of all my subscriptions.
@wilhufftarkin8543
@wilhufftarkin8543 2 года назад
Look up Paul Jernberg here on RU-vid. He composed this and other great liturgical music.
@Babby6010
@Babby6010 2 года назад
Paul Jernberg. The love of God. So good! Its my alarm tone now
@wilhufftarkin8543
@wilhufftarkin8543 2 года назад
@@Babby6010 I always use generic melodies as my alarm tone because there always comes the point when I start to hate my alarm tone. I wouldn't want this to happen to this music, lol.
@gregoriotauro4469
@gregoriotauro4469 2 года назад
I like your little wall lights they're cozy. Great video as well!
@angeltobit878
@angeltobit878 2 года назад
I understand what you mean Brian about Tradition in terms of culture, and the progress in the way we navigate the material world. However, it is totally different when we talk about Tradition in Catholicism. No matter how anyone would make it modern, it will fall short. It always has.
@Generic_Username_01
@Generic_Username_01 2 года назад
A record number of young young men are single following the sexual revolution and the rise of online dating. Whereas traditional monogamy used to neatly pair up men and women (for the most part), hookup culture has created a pattern of a few high-status men having short-term relationships with many women, and the leftover men retreat into themselves. In Japan this is called Hikikomori, in the West people are using the term Incel. This state of affairs hurts everyone and only a return to traditional societal norms can reverse this damage
@thisgirl5933
@thisgirl5933 2 года назад
There are plenty of women wanting to settle down, more than there are men wanting to. The men who don't get dates might want to get some practical advice about how to be attractive to women. Women make a lot of effort to attract men. Men, not so much. Men need to learn again how to woo and be chivalrous.
@thisgirl5933
@thisgirl5933 2 года назад
@TerranCrusader ...and sword?
@ashawesome7234
@ashawesome7234 2 года назад
@@thisgirl5933 where is this dream world of women who want to start families? The only two types of women I have ever seen are either hook-up lovers, or 15 years or less of being a grandmother.
@AveChristusRex
@AveChristusRex 2 года назад
Proverbs 22:28 Pass not beyond the ancient bounds which thy fathers have set.
@77agape
@77agape 2 года назад
yes, but it's 'liturgy fundamentalism' - you're protestants, like sola scriptura! sola liturgica! go reform the novus ordo, and get off your trip!!!! ps i like and attend latin mass
@AveChristusRex
@AveChristusRex 2 года назад
​@@77agape Saying something is fundamental is not the same as saying it is the only thing that matters. As the Second Vatican Council states, the Eucharist is "the source and summit" of our faith. So the Mass can't not be fundamental. And why would we reform a reform, instead of admitting the reform was faulty (if something needs fixed, it's broken). And we can't say that the Mass was faulty until 5 minutes ago or we're heretics. Obviously. Otherwise nothing is heresy. My position is to just return to what we know works. At this point, not doing so is deliberately malicious, like removing reverence from a Mass (e.g. genuflections). The 'reforms' didn't have the effect they were supposedly intended to have, and thus have no reason to exist whatsoever other than to hurt the faithful. So we gained nothing, but lost a lot as far as perennial liturgical traditions, prayers, and attitudes. The cumbaya didn't work. The reforming of the Liturgy to something a Protestant heretic is happy to say, didn't work. It didn't have the effect it was supposedly substituted for the ancient Mass so that it could have. Whatever is more Catholic is less Protestant, whatever is more Protestant is less Catholic. We watered down the Liturgy. This was wrong. And obviously so. The experiment failed. And in fact, younger Catholics are coming in droves in search of the wholesole Liturgy that fed their ancestors in the faith, the saints, not the novelty concocted to bring in people it's now currently turning away, and which has no appeal, worldly or sacred. People are turned off by less reverence. By the vernacular. By the removing of what is holy-which means set apart for God-and replacing it with what is mundane and profane. In a word, people who actually seek Christ, find Him in the ancient Mass, not in the new Mass concocted to bring in people it HASN'T. Have you noticed that most of the 'apologist' types who converted to Catholicism, or who clearly live for it, on RU-vid even, just somehow happen to prefer the traditional Roman Rite? Who actually goes to the Novus Ordo, really, by choice, unless those same people view it as unquestionably necessary? God bless.
@77agape
@77agape 2 года назад
@@AveChristusRex thanks. well you argue your case well, though I'm still not convinced. it's truistic to say the Eurcharist is fundamental (but i said fundamentalistic which has the suggestion of liturgy being the only fundamental)... liturgical abuses of a serious rather than merely fussy nature, are a reality, though nobody has access to all the novus ordo masses on the planet, to see every time a priest does it beautifully, since 95 percent of Masses are still novus ordo. the majority of Masses novus ordo style i went to were not kumbaya style, that's a bit stereotyped - anycase without question the falling away of the faithful is more complex than due to liturgy, and you cannot prove that if the traditional Mass was still in place the same would not have happened - in fact there's a lot of conjecture and unproveable statements in your otherwise well argued case... but you and i agree reverence is important, i just think that can be achieved in both liturgies, and if it can be, then it must be, and that's where realistically we must move forward... novus ordo is here to stay...
@uteme
@uteme 2 года назад
Abortion numbers will greatly reduce when abstinence is practiced.
@aloyalcatholic5785
@aloyalcatholic5785 2 года назад
Amen
@gerddonni2017
@gerddonni2017 2 года назад
You, dear Brian, belong to the real "Traditionis Custodes". Thank you very much!
@everetunknown5890
@everetunknown5890 2 года назад
Divorce had a bigger impact on me than I realized as a kid. I was happy to have my father out the house and we did better financially without him but the structure of the family was broken in a way I didn't see. Thanks for making this video, keep it up
@kynesilagan2676
@kynesilagan2676 2 года назад
I thank God, for giving our Children [toddlers] a blind faith to us. a.k.a. 'trust' I hope and pray we could reciprocate it by teaching them with the Truths.
@shashikamanoj1160
@shashikamanoj1160 2 года назад
Brilliant Brian!!! Exquisite to listen. You have already predicted what we can expect in the oriental Catholic lands at least geographically. Praised be Jesus Christ
@ModernPapist
@ModernPapist 2 года назад
Tradition is like the scientific method for the moral and spiritual realms through generations.
@Floridiansince94
@Floridiansince94 2 года назад
Excellent, Bryan! Thank you so much
@reginamcgovern4351
@reginamcgovern4351 2 года назад
Great commentary. 👍 Love your work. So well discerned and articulated. Thank you.
@lisamoag6548
@lisamoag6548 2 года назад
Thank you for your consideration and reflections of ideas, thoughts and behaviors that affect us all.
@marysisak2359
@marysisak2359 2 года назад
Mary Eberstadt has written at least three books on the effect of the sexual revolution. Her latest is primal scream. I think you might get a lot out of her books. There are also some you tube videos of interviews with her. Her contention is simple, we have learned that keeping animals in captivity is wrong because family ties are so important for their well being while we ignore the same requirement for ourselves, She describes current children as having what she calls a kaleidoscope existence where dads, mom, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, grand mothers and fathers come into and out of children's lives thus offering no consistent family ties throughout their lives.
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 2 года назад
Her book “Adam and Eve after the pill” is a real gem. She’s very incisive
@ToxicPea
@ToxicPea 2 года назад
This talk was quite enlightening. Thanks a bunch Brandon!
@richardbittley6028
@richardbittley6028 2 года назад
Very insightful, descriptive and right on the mark..Thank you..
@4guadalupe4
@4guadalupe4 2 года назад
Traditions...kinda of of glue that holds the family together...love what is good, beautiful and true. Traditions a guide to our eternal goal.
@tolkienlewis6887
@tolkienlewis6887 2 года назад
Excellent! This made SO much sense and 8 really enjoyed it.
@MNkno
@MNkno 2 года назад
Your comments about marriage and divorce - have you ever considered that the effects of divorce can be more devastating on children than the death of a parent, not due to the fact of the split, but due to the conditions that led to the divorce? Life can get pretty toxic as things break down, whereas life can be wholesome and stable up to the moment that the loved one was taken from the family. One of the problems is that modern marriage has been confused with a tax break for a legalized link, instead of what is described by Timothy Keller (and his wife of 37-yrs, Kathy) in their book "The Meaning of Marriage". That's one reason our church decided that counseling before the wedding had to be required, and why some countries have 2-tier systems that formally split the legalized link from the full commitment model of marriage.
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 2 года назад
In a no fault divorce society, most divorces aren't because of a traumatically unworkable marriage. My parents divorced and they obviously didn't get along to the degree that they wanted, but none of us kids would have traded the divorce for the life we had before if we had a choice in it.
@olgas9970
@olgas9970 2 года назад
I recently graduated from college, and am back home. As a Protestant I've been dragged around to a handful of churches by my family growing up, and went to a few more while in college. Now that I'm back home I am continuing my effort of being part of a faith community, and it feels that each of the churches are doing what seems right in their own eyes and quite strongly convinced of it. I'm going to be moving soon, so that leaves me to pick a church in the position of not being most informed on their theology. I've never been to a Catholic mass, I'll give it a try when I move, I definitely appreciate how Catholicism has a deep unified body of thought and takes out the arbitration from picking a church to go to.
@realmless4193
@realmless4193 2 года назад
I don't think we are increasing in material comforts. I think they are going through a turning point and are nearing a collapse.
@sumkindacheeto
@sumkindacheeto 2 года назад
Close. The developed world is rich but subject to corruption. In terms of personal freedoms and virtues, our times can't even compare to the middle or renaissance ages. The culture has gone backwards.
@carolkrawiec1743
@carolkrawiec1743 2 года назад
Tradition is knowledge
@normbeers
@normbeers 2 года назад
Outstanding piece, Brian. Very incisive with lots of sociological references that are beyond dispute.
@jonathanbohl
@jonathanbohl 2 года назад
This talk applies so well in so many areas.
@jperez7893
@jperez7893 2 года назад
some of the earliest of holy tradition can be deduced to be the following: 1. the sign of the cross 2. the books of the Bible 3. the apostle's creed 4. locations of some holy sites connected with Jesus Christ 5. authenticity of some relics, e.g., shroud of Turin, sudarium, holy cross 6. authorship of the gospels and epistles 7. missionary destinations of the apostles
@evansmith2018
@evansmith2018 2 года назад
Your best video yet!
@LifeWithFlowers
@LifeWithFlowers 2 года назад
Well said Brian. You speak reasonably and thoughtfully.
@Thomas-dw1nb
@Thomas-dw1nb 2 года назад
Brian. Love ya, brother.
@williamscott3123
@williamscott3123 2 года назад
Another great video.
@angelacross2216
@angelacross2216 2 года назад
Thank you.
@CatholicNicklas
@CatholicNicklas 2 года назад
Amazing video
@borrico1965
@borrico1965 2 года назад
I heard St. Escriva teaching that a lay Catholic still needs to gain theological training to empower her/him to distinguish which part of the tradition is essential to faith and which isn’t. The saint said, “Ours should be the piety of children and the sure doctrine of theologians.” (Christ is Passing By, par. 10)
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
Knowledge of the Bible is required... and most Catholic traditions cannot be found there.
@borrico1965
@borrico1965 2 года назад
@@jessebryant9233 Definitely, knowledge of Sacred Scripture is required. But that isn’t enough for Catholic Christians. Knowledge of the writings of the early and ancient Christians, faithful of the early centuries of Christianity, is also needed.
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
@@borrico1965 You would need to actually argue for that... Not saying it isn't useful, but necessary? Clearly not for the folks your appealing to! Scripture is sufficient.
@borrico1965
@borrico1965 2 года назад
@@jessebryant9233 To the contrary, claiming Scriptures as sufficient would show a big gap between the subject of Scriptures and the written tomes. Christ’s disciples and witnesses preached His message verbally and orally first and foremost. Written Scripture came later.
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
@@borrico1965 And what "gap" is that? And nobody said that the Scriptures didn't have to be written first... but we have them now, as did the early church. As for the argument you would need to actually make or where so many "traditions" of the RCC can be found in the Bible... _Can you give me one example that demonstrates that Scripture is somehow insufficient?_
@Donaldalisary
@Donaldalisary 2 года назад
I like the quote about tradition providing solutions to old problems that we do not see in our own time. A lack of respect for tradition thus condemns us to repeat the errors of history. A true love of tradition is anything but blind and rigid if we understand "why that wall was built" before we tear it down. If we weren't so blind and rigid we would keep or adapt most of these "walls of tradition" because we would now understand their purpose. This does require intellectual effort within a stable and sane society - not the polemics of change for its own sake or worse: the destruction of society for utopian dreams.. Thanks for an excellent video essay Brian.
@minorityvoice9253
@minorityvoice9253 2 года назад
Grace builds on Nature. True progress which is to fulfill our telos our purpose is to build on tradition, the knowledge and wisdom of our past.
@minorityvoice9253
@minorityvoice9253 2 года назад
You're truly my brother I have never met. How can you think exactly like me? It's uncanny.
@sumkindacheeto
@sumkindacheeto 2 года назад
Most worthwhile traditions are not passed down through institutions like schools or sects. It's through family and relationships, and most importantly - your own intuition. Blind trust is faith. It doesn't always have to be backed up by empirical facts. This next part will put me on thin ice but Christ could have not been advocate of any side or church and no one could tell a difference in the crux of his teachings, that's why both the romans and the jews hated him.
@TheOvernightMom
@TheOvernightMom 2 года назад
Haven't had a chance to watch this video yet but I love the thumbnail 😂
@st_adam9058
@st_adam9058 2 года назад
Do you have a book list; if so, can you link it?
@davidmattingly1574
@davidmattingly1574 2 года назад
You forgot to mention the natural complement of your main point. We can examine tradition by what it was originally meant to do, then reexamine those purposes in the modern context to see if it's still successful. By being more educated and not less, you can intelligently make that progress. (or refute challenges)
@ricardoheredia7307
@ricardoheredia7307 2 года назад
BRAVISIMO!!!!TOTALLY AGREE
@lazydazs
@lazydazs 2 года назад
A very wise explanation!
@joematties7557
@joematties7557 2 года назад
You're an interesting dude. Found Catholicism, seem to have a decent understanding of things. Do you have a video on the different traditions of Catholicism? The Latin mass? Have you progressed that far in your studies yet? I'm curious if you attend a traditional latin Mass. With the way you research and speak you could help people understand why the Mass must be in latin.
@MikeM-cz5ln
@MikeM-cz5ln 2 года назад
“This inflexibility of the Church may seem narrow and intolerant, but only to those who do not stop to reflect that Christ promised that the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth, would guide His Church forever. This guidance is precisely what will cause his Church to forever adhere inflexibly to what it has always taught to be the true doctrine of Christ. Its very inflexibility is our security that what it teaches today is exactly what it taught in all past ages. What it teaches today is what it taught when the Protestants separated from it. It is what it taught when the Arians separated from it. It is what it taught when the Marcionites separated from it. It is what it taught before anyone separated from it. It is what it taught in the very beginning. How else could God expect his Church to act? There is no such thing as progress in religion. Change is only progress when it is in the right direction. If one already has the truth change is not progress. It is departure from-the truth. The Church began with the true version of religion. Christ Himself taught it. The Church has been teaching it ever since. Departure from its teaching constitutes departure from the truth. It constitutes a false version of religion. Christ Himself has told us what those things are that God expects of us. His version cannot be improved upon. Those who think that the teaching of the Church should be modernized and brought "up to date" should reflect that God is still God, that human beings are still merely His creatures, and that religion is what God expects human beings to know. Circumstances may have changed but God has not. He still expects human beings to do what He tells them, and not merely to do it under certain circumstances. Those who sincerely intend to do whatever God expects of them do not complain that the Church still teaches what Christ sent it to teach. On the contrary they are glad it does. It makes it possible for them to be sure they are on the right road.”
@dustash1578
@dustash1578 2 года назад
Proverbs 13:18 Poverty and shame come to him who ignores discipline, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 15:5 A fool rejects his father's discipline, but whoever heeds correction is prudent. Also Proverbs 15:35. Many good points.
@cherlenekaur81
@cherlenekaur81 2 года назад
I don't want you to blindly follow. I want you to experience what you are going through.
@cherlenekaur81
@cherlenekaur81 2 года назад
Not everybody's experience is the same.
@johnantesbergeriii4053
@johnantesbergeriii4053 2 года назад
I'm convinced that the labyrinth in the nave of Chartres is the ultimate symbol of critical thinking in line with tradition. You appear to make endless circles but it all progresses towards what's central to all life.
@oambitiousone7100
@oambitiousone7100 2 года назад
That’s profound
@stevecalovich3682
@stevecalovich3682 2 года назад
Timely Reflections on the Third Secret by David Martin
@shellyvoltz8498
@shellyvoltz8498 2 года назад
what is your source on the HIV/AIDS death data? What I'm finding is not consistent with what you stated?
@commandergoey9570
@commandergoey9570 2 года назад
This Video is savage!
@Catholic-Perennialist
@Catholic-Perennialist 2 года назад
But from which century will we draw our tradition? And how much longer before the Novus Ordo becomes a tradition to pass down?
@0r14n583lt
@0r14n583lt 2 года назад
In order for a “tradition” to be passed on to a next generation, that next generation has to exist. The Novus Ordo is emptying the Church. There is barely a next generation remaining in the church which is willing to accept the fruits of modernism.
@Catholic-Perennialist
@Catholic-Perennialist 2 года назад
@@0r14n583lt I have plenty of kids.
@Catholic-Perennialist
@Catholic-Perennialist 2 года назад
@@physiocrat7143 so much tradition contradicts itself.
@thomasjorge4734
@thomasjorge4734 2 года назад
50 year Mass versus 1,800 year Mass. You do the math.
@Catholic-Perennialist
@Catholic-Perennialist 2 года назад
@@thomasjorge4734 Which one does the magisterium support? That's a pretty heavy hand on the scale.
@admiralbob77
@admiralbob77 2 года назад
It is also lazy to look at changes and assume they're bad just because they're changes.... there are solid reasons to adapt a 3 year lectionary, for instance, when a solid one is developed - rather than emotionally reacting to it.
@victoriathorlacius874
@victoriathorlacius874 2 года назад
MFW the thumbnail is a photo from the Lutheran church that I recently left to convert to Catholicism.
@littlesaintwilliamofnorwic8500
@littlesaintwilliamofnorwic8500 2 года назад
Is one of your producer's names really Christian Guy?
@djnightingale7450
@djnightingale7450 2 года назад
If a tradition contradicts God's word - we should abandon it. If a novelty contradicts God's word - we should abandon it. We should judge the ideas not by how progressive/traditional they are, but by how true they are and whether it's good for our souls and the world
@jaynejmj1286
@jaynejmj1286 2 года назад
Thanking God for bringing you into His Church! #VivaChristoRey I’m always praising God for my ancestors! Our family wouldn’t be where it is in faith and morals in success in education and careers with out our ancestors faith, love and devotion to God and family! Blessed be our God!
@commercialrealestatephilos605
@commercialrealestatephilos605 2 года назад
The use of the word “prudence” is rooted in tradition…
@waltermcnicoll4968
@waltermcnicoll4968 2 года назад
👑
@everettsmith661
@everettsmith661 2 года назад
Ever heard of Urantia Book?
@tryingnottobeasmartass757
@tryingnottobeasmartass757 2 года назад
Yes. I am embarrassed for anyone who falls for it.
@justus005
@justus005 6 месяцев назад
I have been attending the Novus Ordo and have noticed alter girls. In Traditional Mass only alter boys are allowed. What is the significance of tradition in the alter boy and should the church have begun the acceptance and use of females as alter servers?
@klausehrhardt4481
@klausehrhardt4481 2 года назад
Is it good? Keep it. Is it not? Discard it. Plain, simple and it goes well for tradition as well as for inovation too. But I do not expect much of progressism and its fundamental premise: the latter the better. It is due to what´s new to proove better than that that has come before, and not the other way around. Progress, above all depends on tradition, as one clearly tells looking at knoledge and know-how, science and tech. It is much less a matter of suplanting the old in favor of the new, but to integrate both. The process of recording all know becomes inevitable, and we are faced with a new problem: the records of knowledge - information, if one likes - is not knowledge.
@mickyfrazer786
@mickyfrazer786 2 года назад
Like everything in life the best is balanced, the zealots of the extremes are not necessarily the wisest wether pre v2 traditionalists or complete modernists. The problems arise when ideas are polarised. Ever it is thus and will be.
@loveandmercy9664
@loveandmercy9664 2 года назад
The metaphor of a Fiddler on the Roof was all about the balance of tradition and progress. There's the famous scene when Tevye's third daughter wants to marry a gentile and he says "If I bend anymore the track will break" Fiddler on the roof takes place during the Russian pogroms was which an act of Christian antisemitism by the Orthodox Czars which of course and Catholics and protestants have their own dark history of which would be an example of a bad tradition.
@thstroyur
@thstroyur 2 года назад
As someone else pointed out in this comment section - you're going about _customs_ , not _tradition_ , there...
@nickk4851
@nickk4851 2 года назад
Just posted this somehwere else, but this seems like another good place to put it: I have a burning question I need andswered. Am I ever wrong to follow the Church in all Her teachings, even the modern ones that seem to depart from Tradition - is that sinful on my part? I just don't know who or what to believe. I'm at a point where I'm continually fighting against a total collapse of faith in the Church because there is no unity, which is supposed to be one of the hallmarks of the Church. What the hell is the average person supposed to do? Matthew 15:14 - is it possible for someone to fall into the pit (of hell?) because they've been led astray? I'm not tired of defending Pope Francis but the Church as a whole. I'm not sure it deserves defense at this point in its history.
@vaderetro264
@vaderetro264 2 года назад
Tradition is the container which separates and protects Truth (or anything culturally valuable) from the outside world and possible corruptions. But if the container has a whole and the content is lost, tradition becomes a burden and an illegitimate object of veneration.
@geneparadiso6258
@geneparadiso6258 2 года назад
Holy Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium: a Three Legged Stool.
@JacksonD0716
@JacksonD0716 Год назад
Based
@petergreen8477
@petergreen8477 2 года назад
I have a great respect for tradition and its importance. However, there are certain traps that need to be avoided: (1) the times when tradition gets confused with custom, i.e. the expression of tradition that is only appropriate for a specific time and place; (2) the idealisation the past - especially given that, by definition, we weren’t there: all humans in all times have been fallen.
@kiwi-xl1vl
@kiwi-xl1vl 2 года назад
What is sacred tradition? Why it is significant in preserving Christian faith since early Church?
@petergreen8477
@petergreen8477 2 года назад
@@kiwi-xl1vl For Christians like me, tradition IS the the Christian faith - as long as it’s understood that the term is being used in a special sense. Tradition in this sense is the faith “handed down” (the literal meaning of “tradition”) from the Apostles and embodied in scripture, the Catholic creeds, the determinations of Ecumenical Councils, and the teaching of theologians that are consistent with all of those. “Tradition” in this sense doesn’t prescribe the language or style of worship, the style of Christian art, etc.
@stevenmoreno2888
@stevenmoreno2888 2 года назад
Tradition is the democracy of the dead -GK Chesterton
@konyvnyelv.
@konyvnyelv. 2 года назад
I don't grasp. Can you explain? Thanks
@shihyuchu6753
@shihyuchu6753 2 года назад
Would you like to talk about CATHOLIC Traditions? If so...let me know
@ashtonlambert7673
@ashtonlambert7673 2 года назад
Mark 7:7:8
@gridcaster
@gridcaster 2 года назад
Well said. I can't tell you how much I agree with the idea that much of what counts as "progressive" today is really just raw arrogance that our modern culture intuitively knows better than what our ancestors developed over many long centuries and crises. We'll re-learn the same lessons...maybe with different solutions this time. We'll always be human though...as human as we were 2000 years ago or 2000 years from now. The same feelings, hormones, deep fears and loves...it isn't hard to imagine that at least some of our "ancient wisdom" might actually be worth as much today or even more than it was so many centuries ago. Truth is still truth.
@catherineroche2322
@catherineroche2322 2 года назад
Someone not long ago took Chesterton's words about a democracy of the dead a little too literally.
@martaacosta4415
@martaacosta4415 2 года назад
We generally assume that humanity and its culture progress and evolve. However, there is such a thing as entropy, or the opposite of evolution as we think of it, at least culturally. We have become worse, dumber, incoherent. Our traditions when we remember them, seem wrong because our values are forgotten, or distorted. Jorge Luis Borges has a great short story on this theme, titled The Gospel According to St. Mark. Father Ripperger also talks about entropy.
@catherineroche2322
@catherineroche2322 2 года назад
If I'm not mistaken, the idea that humanity evolves is a recent notion (by recent I mean it came about in the 1800s, if not earlier in the "Enlightenment"). Marx and Engels spoke of societal evolution, and Engels was thrilled with Darwin's work because it took their conviction down to the biological level.
@Atypical4days
@Atypical4days 2 года назад
Voila, you are now using the argument I told you you were using. Tradition implies the Enlightenment today. Whether we like it or not.
@TSliw
@TSliw 2 года назад
I’m glad you weren’t as vague as you were in the last video and I think the “case studies”, especially regarding divorce, did help to support your thesis. I can’t help but think that you are strawmanning the opposite point of view. It isn’t that so called progressives distain the past because it is from the past but because they identify perceived problems (real or not, immoral or not) that drives the “woke mob”. Unless we engage with that on its own terms and actually learn what and why the progressives believe what they do we won’t be able to meaningfully engage.
@greypilgrim1649
@greypilgrim1649 2 года назад
Love fiddler 🤣 TRADITION!
@petrichor5294
@petrichor5294 2 года назад
People follow tradition?
@j0nb0y5
@j0nb0y5 2 года назад
I’m assuming this video is for cradle Catholics?
@kimthetruthofit6965
@kimthetruthofit6965 2 года назад
Closer to the source closer to the truth
@CantusTropus
@CantusTropus 2 года назад
For the algorithm.
@pottingsoil
@pottingsoil 2 года назад
If we don't have their problems then why would we use their solutions? A square block doesn't fit a round hole.
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 2 года назад
The reason we don't have their problems is because we haven't yet discarded their solutions.
@erojerisiz1571
@erojerisiz1571 2 года назад
10:32 Tl;dr traditionalism can be very pragmatic
@Vezmus1337
@Vezmus1337 2 года назад
While I generally agree with what you have said here, you didn't really make a great case for why Catholic Tradition in particular is the superior one. A Hindu, Muslim, Jew, or even a Protestant could have said the exact same words to argue for his tradition. There has to be a certain way to distinguish between good tradition and bad tradition. Otherwise every man has every reason to hold to his tradition of his particular ancestors, and we devolve into primitive tribalism where we each pit our tradition against the tradition of our neighbors.
@thstroyur
@thstroyur 2 года назад
"While I generally agree with what you have said here, you didn't really make a great case for why Catholic Tradition in particular is the superior one" Because that's not the point of the video - which isn't about an apologetics for the Catholic tradtion per se, but rather for the worth in "blindly" following tradition (and in particular, the Catholic one - which is frequently challenged, BTW, on these grounds of being "nonprogressive")
@vicc1434
@vicc1434 2 года назад
Your view about passing knowledge is quite static... We are not only tradition, mostly we live of relations, emotions and reason. Every generation takes from the older ones (otherwise we cannot survive) and then naturally challenge and change what is not working anymore. This rate of changing is greater than in the past, the world is changing fast. But we must challenge the ways of our fathers! Not to through away everything, but to modify what we see isn’t working. The process is not happening without mistakes. The traditions we have comes from people that challenged the previous tradition. To continue with your analogy of the map, it is like using it to navigate and then realize there is an mountain where there should be a lake. The land has changed, because of an earthquake, we cannot simply trust, we need to review the map. Finally, it seems you seek the myth of the golden age. There is no heaven in the past. We cannot deny the problems of our society, but I personally prefer dealing with problems from social media than write a letter to my mother while fighting a war that killed millions. I prefer to deal with high rates of divorce than go back to when wives were submitted to their husbands and had to live to obey, in a man made society. I definitely do not want to go back to a world where a good mannered minority could enjoy art and literature and go to high mass while the world for many was just living in slavery, poverty, abuse, no chance to access primary school or basic health care.
@Mrpargmatic
@Mrpargmatic 2 года назад
Brian, one of the problems of the conservative view point is that it’s always looking for that line of division from one perspective than the other. This is black and white thinking and a source of great pain. How does one, who appreciates the value of tradition determine the intention of another who also values tradition? Most people agree with the recklessness and pain of the sexual Revolution but some place blame on a singular cause. Feminist of the 60’s were not interested in the continuation of the objectification of women, they were however obsessed with the objectification of the unborn.. but the focus of trying to put back the pieces of our society leads us to sometimes signal out a particular, that is an accusation. The current crisis is hedonism has more to do with the commercialization of human sexuality by the very free market system that many conservatives defend as gospel. That mechanism, that reductionist world view that fuels late capitalism’s demand is far more influential on our children, and well funded, than any feminist could hope for. The candle is burning on both ends. My point is a conservatives cannot recognize a fellow traditionalist, everyone to the left of said individual is contributing to the chaos.
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 2 года назад
I think you're introducing concepts of left and right that don't really apply to what I'm saying in this video. Conservatism isn't synonymous with capitalism. Liberalism is and that, like socialism, is not compatible with the Western tradition or even true conservatism.
@Mrpargmatic
@Mrpargmatic 2 года назад
@@BrianHoldsworth so what is it? Is a true conservative socialist or liberal? That’s the problem of politicized sin, who gets to measure morality for a diverse society? This morning I finally heard something wonderful from Jordan Peterson, a prayer for himself.
@danielloizeaux5779
@danielloizeaux5779 2 года назад
:)
@ilikeitabc
@ilikeitabc 2 года назад
Seeing other people's traditions compared to yours really gives a bigger picture to who we are as enlightened people.
@tonycarey1735
@tonycarey1735 2 года назад
Much more nuanced than your previous suggestion that 'Progressivism is Antithetical to Education'. But again, you use terms like 'wokeness' and 'false progressivism' as if these are verifiable, useful terms. Surely humility is the obligation of those who are upholders of tradition as much as it is for those seeking to understand it? If an upholder of tradition seeks to promote that tradition without clear, comprehensive explanation then that brings that tradition into question ... naturally. When the upholders of tradition do this as a matter of course, then the whole tradition becomes suspect. I was recently told -- in no undercertain terms! -- that the 'old mass' is the mass that was instituted 'by Christ and the Holy Spirit', for example. The implication being that this was a sacrosanct tradition. Yet the old mass was born of a certain time and a certain place fifteen centuries after Christ! Your simplistic narrative about the so-called 'sexual revolution' is a classic case of how you reduce significant, complex changes to simple binaries of 'the traditionalists' versus 'the progressives'. It wasn't that simple. Sure 'progressives' pushed the extremes but the 'traditionalists' also have to wear some of the blame in the way they arrogantly resisted the insights of modern biology and how society was changing more generally.
@loturzelrestaurant
@loturzelrestaurant 2 года назад
This Guy talking about Blind Faith is amazingly hyprocritical; even deluded. Just back in June, he got totally debunked by TMM: What about that?
@Pietrosavr
@Pietrosavr 2 года назад
Luke 10:27 “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your MIND, and your neighbour as yourself.” Galatians 5:6 "For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." Early Christians abandoned the "tradition" of circumcision and many other Jewish traditions, because now Love (God) is the king not the law (Tradition). Don't focus on either tradition, or on progressivism, focus on love alone.
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
Scrolled through all the independent comments (95 as of this moment) and counted... about 8 references to scripture-not all of them favorable. If the traditions and arguments for them are not rooted in scripture (not even saying they aren't) then is there real wisdom or knowledge in these traditions? Okay, so where in the Bible can I find the basis for all the Sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church? Just asking for the references.
@thstroyur
@thstroyur 2 года назад
Read pretty much any Catholic apologetics book by Trent Horn, Jimmy Akin, or any of the other "popular" authors. The one I own (and have read), and recommend, is Scott Hahn - _Reasons to Believe - How to Understand, Explain, and Defend the Catholic Faith_ ; particularly useful to Protestants, because Hahn has an extensive Protestant background himself, and as such shares the characteristic evangelical "obsession" with the Good Book (which is a part of Tradition, BTW)
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
@@thstroyur So no Biblical references then? That's kind of what I expected... _And did you just mock the Bible or just the Protestants who actually read it?_
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 2 года назад
You condemn the absence of argumentation with scripture reference and then begin a line of argumentation, yourself, without referencing scripture. Please notice that you're relying on an assumption grounded in a tradition, which is that all theological beliefs must have an accompanying proof text in the Bible. So , to be consistent with your own criterion, please tell me where the bible teaches that all theological doctrines must have explicit references in scripture. If you want to know the Catholic supports for the sacraments, you could look at the Catechism which references church fathers , doctors, and of course, scripture throughout its explanation. www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s1c1a2.htm
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
@@BrianHoldsworth Wasn't making a biblical argument-was making an observation. Your accusation is fallacious. And no, I'm not assuming any tradition-I'm appealing to the text itself. Your accusation is a false one and you are acting like the Muslims who like to demand: Show me in the Bible where Jesus said, "I am God, worship me"! Which we both know is silly... And no, you're lying when you claim that the Catechism references Scripture for ALL the sacraments. There are however efforts to "wrest" a desired conclusion from a text (2 Peter 3:16), likely via claiming some sort of rational inference. But maybe I'm wrong! *_Hey Brian, why don't you just list the 8 sacraments and the Scriptures they are supposed to be derived from?_* Or is that too much to ask?
@aksolace
@aksolace 2 года назад
@@jessebryant9233 ummm….seven sacraments…just clarifying😊. Baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, reconciliation (penance), anointing of the sick, holy matrimony, and holy orders. If one can’t find ample examples of these in the Scriptures, I guess there’s not much more to be said. These are inward gifts realized through outward signs, and we are grateful for them.
@archstanton8126
@archstanton8126 2 года назад
You seem to be conflating knowledge and wisdom of ancestors with tradition. Ridiculing a church of their traditions doesn't necessarily negate it's wisdom or knowledge.
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 2 года назад
At 1:13 I very explicitly explain my definition of tradition and it does not correlate with your accusation.
@aloyalcatholic5785
@aloyalcatholic5785 2 года назад
Remember the Pauline imperative : “remember to pass on the *traditions* we have taught you”.
@loveandmercy9664
@loveandmercy9664 2 года назад
The metaphor of a Fiddler on the Roof was all about the balance of tradition and progress. There's the famous scene when Tevye's third daughter wants to marry a gentile and he says "If I bend anymore the track will break" Fiddler on the Roof takes place during the Russian pogroms was which an act of Christian antisemitism by the Orthodox Czars which of course and Catholics and protestants have their own dark history of which would be an example of a bad tradition.
@renaissanceman9168
@renaissanceman9168 2 года назад
Jesus said of Holy Communion: “Do this in memory of me.” And for 2,000 years, many of Jesus’ disciples have obeyed and kept that tradition, while others have become wiser than their master and have abandoned tradition.
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 года назад
Following Blind Tradition = Roman Catholicism. Oops!
@77agape
@77agape 2 года назад
latin mass is cool though there are tons of other elements to tradition, and tradition is not only element of the Faith (scripture, tradition, magesterium) - don't become 'liturgy or tradition fundamentalists' like solo sciprtura protestants..... i love and attend latin mass, but go reform the N Ordo instead of using your criticisms of it to make yourself feel more RIGHT! go reform!!!!!!
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