My guess was that the Slug Princess were supposed to be nuns of the Healing Church that were turned into monsters like the Slime students from the Lecture Building.
That same death animation has been used all the way back since Demon's Souls actually. I hadn't noticed that Gehrman and Maria both use it when they die though, that is interesting.
I always thought Gherman did it because of the Moon Presence above him. But if Maria does it, who knows? There are theories the Moon Presence would have held sway in the Hunter's Nightmare, but was cut, so that's possible.
@Dick Biggles Nah, I agree. I mean the Hunter's 'Dream' is hardly a dream when you think about it, even though I think Gherman wanted it to be a reprieve for Hunters when he made the pact with the Moon Presence. Makes more sense as a part of the nightmare.
youwatch2muchtv That could be said for a lot of the chalice-only enemies/bosses. But it didn't stop things like the pyromancer witches and and the watchdog from making it into the final game. And vice versa for a lot of the enemies in Dark Souls 3 being clear re-skinned Bloodborne stuff.
That demon boss you showed at the end, reminds me a LOT of the same moveset that the demon you fight in dark souls 3 with siegward in the undead settlement has. the leaping attack, the general arc of its swings, and you mentioned it trying to do firebreath attacks. just something i noticed, would explain why it didn't make it into bloodborne.
the demon looks like it shares a lot of its moveset with the demon firesage from DS1 as well. It's probably meant to be a sort of mid-point between the two.
My guess is that this demon boss and the Watchdog of the Old Lords are leftovers from when Bloodborne was going to be Demon's Souls 2. Whereas now we get a bait-and-switch from gothic-horror with werewolves into Lovecraftian-horror with eldritch abominations, the bait-and-switch was originally going to be into Demon's Souls 2 - possibly re-awakening the Old One when you get to Byrgenwerth, which is when Demons would start to appear. Maybe.
@@benkai343434 Its moveset is from the Taurus Demon from Dark Souls 1. Likely this may be from early development of Dark Souls 3 or a left over from Dark Souls 1 seeing as Bloodborne uses the same engine.
Great work, it's really nice to see some of this stuff that couldn't be gotten to even with the save editor. One interesting detail worth mentioning is that the Demon's ID shows up in some of the developer test chalice dungeons, though the dungeons it's set to be in crash when you try to load them. The Demon does look out of place in the maingame for the most part, but paired up with the unused fiery archer and warrior seen in some of the other test dungeons, and put next to Keeper of the Old Lords and Watchdog of the Old Lords in the legitimate chalices, you can start to imagine how it was planned to be used. There seems to have been an initial emphasis on fire-themed enemies in the chalice dungeons that ran much deeper than what made it into the final version of the game, which fits a bit more with the more prominent fantasy elements shown in the early trailers, like the glowing sword being plunged in a gravestone or the fog gates made of messengers.
I wouldn't be surprised if there had been an area of dungeons planned specifically for Fire the same way there's Loran for Bolt, Isz for Arcane, and Hintertomb for Poison. As of now, it feels like Pthumeru adopted Watchdog and Keeper because they had nowhere left to go.
Ok, another question for you. :) I've spent some time looking around in the BB filesystem and found some things that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else: www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/wiki/community/data-mining-mega-thread (The Map Data and Menu Textures) - check out the potential minimap they were working on for the chalices, and old Demon's Souls-type attribute symbols FROM was looking at using! Also there's a couple map lists in there you might find pretty interesting if you haven't seen it already. So what I'm really wondering is, which files did you look at to get that sort of information? I know there's a ton of test/chalice dungeons from the translated list of all of them I found in the filesystem, but I'm not 100% sure what exactly constitutes the actual files for the chalices? The .msbs? The .nvas? What file would I Actually be looking for for that? And second, Where did you find the names of these monsters being shown in this video? I've gone through the enUS and jpJP versions of the item and menu fmg files and there is all sorts of crazy stuff, especially on the Japanese side. Are the names taken from there and I just missed them? This guy mentions that they found the monster and the id for it, but was that just the monster and associated id that you can see in the fmg files? Or somewhere else? Anyway, I appreciate your answering more of my question. I have a very strong feeling there's still a LOT to find in BB, quite a lot. The people doing hyped stuff now are just the "first pass" getting the most obvious unused/old things. There will be cooler, more interesting stuff later.
I don't know whether it's been confirmed at this point or not, but I always got the feeling the Chalice Dungeons were (partly?) conceived as a way for them to still make use of some content they would've cut entirely otherwise
FYI, the segmented nature of the giant bag head creature is a common practice when rigging characters for animation. While a character is still be developed, the rough model will be chopped into pieces and hard-weighted to a skeleton to save iteration time. Only once the character model has been approved will it go to be smooth-skinned to a skeleton and the weighting polished for smooth deformations. It is pretty cool to see that content from all stages of development made it onto the disc.
@rgkovach123 These unfinished animations are a good educational experience. It really shows how much polish and work goes into creating fluid animations so that they don’t appear as jerky as what you see with this prototype.
The game originally had you repeatedly jumping forward in time (see cut dialogues). Skipping most of the story; "Slug Princess" was captured an brought to Yarnam for the purposes of "natural philosophy" (if you get me); next time the player gets "ministered" (& jumps forward in time) the game "as we know it" begins an Yarnam is a "City cursed for its sins". Punished for its careless, discompassionate greed for scientific growth. It's Bloodbornes' plot, the fighting themes of Gothic Horror (fear of stagnation) & Lovecraftian Horror (Fear of Change). I was vague, for hastes' sake, but did I make sense?
That demon's face looks incredibly similar to the Keeper's helm/face. The keeper is such an odd enemy type compared to every other enemy that it makes me wonder if there use to be a huge amount of lore to the chalice dungeons that got cut and/or never fully realised. The fact this demon boss exists lends itself to my theory about that.
Did anyone else notice that the lesser demon has stump where a second head should be? Maybe this was supposed to a version of Lawrence we would fight outside of the hunters Nightmare that was unused do to aesthetic reasons.
Let me know what other weird Bloodborne stuff you want to see up close, not just cut content, but hidden details in the distance you want a closer look at, areas you want explored in more detail, anything!
Lance McDonald Can you see if you can add collision to the bottom layers of the prop test Chalice Dungeon Zullie shared? We only have Pthumeru, and there's a ton of of assets that were unused including giant gates and locked treasure room doors with keyholes. But there's no way for us mortals to visit the other dungeon types because only the first layer has a working floor. :(
Lance McDonald it would awesome to see more of Yarnam city . We see a lot of areas of the city we never visit. For example, in the upper cathedral ward we see another giant clock tower being the one we see throughout the game . This second tower looks a lot like London tower , and we never go there. Would love to see this area up close.
That last boss might not have really fit the game overall but it's skull was very Bloodborne. It was likely scrapped because it didn't fit in. This was pretty cool. I really want a Bloodborne sequel even though it's highly unlikely to happen any time soon.
Since the Winter Lanterns also had doll hands, my mind instantly jumped to those when you showed the doll enemy in this video. I can only imagine that some ghastly fermentation process is taking place under that sack ;D
The slug princess's blindfold reminds me of the veil-like structure that drapes over the upper part of Mother Kos's face and covers her eyes. And if I had to guess, I'd say that the "king of skeleton" enemies were meant for the Chalice Dungeons, since that's the only place (save for Yahar'gul) where undead entities are really prominent in the game.
That large head enemy with the robotic movement is somewhat similar to the Burial Tree Watchdog mini boss own movement that we saw on Elden Ring's network test. It's pretty funny to see it now (kinda) realized. At least the same idea seems present.
Find the giant-head doll pretty interesting. Kinda has a silent hill feeling to it, and how it moves, like it doesn't actually know how it's body is supposed to work. Sure creepy being followed by something like that.
Nice job. I imagine the Lesser Demon was originally going to be a part of another area or possibly an early concept for a boss when the game was set to be tied to Demon's Souls
Why would the Lesser Demon be tied to Demons' Souls? If anything, it would be tied to the Lesser Demons (Bat Demons & Gargoyles) of Dark Souls 1. It even has a DS1 style multi-eyed, horned, skeletal head (like the Goat & Bull Demons of Izs/Izsalith). Nothing at all like the ManEaters of Demons' Souls. Bloodborne & Dark Souls 1 extensively reference each other, and not Demons Souls or DS 2 & 3; I've never understood why folks think otherwise. Umbasa, I guess, yes?
DG. Ignoring plot & thematic ties (for sake of brevity, even if they are the most important) you have things like the locations named Loran (Lordran) and Isz (Iszalith), the 3 human races of Pygme (Player size), Pthumerian (Kin of Gwyn), & Giant. The labyrinth has many Undead enemies (with no specific reason, nor is it treated as special), Pthumarian Watchers & Martyr Logarius (also Undead) use recreations of the Drake Sword, Keepers of the Old Lords (amoung many other direct refrences) use Pyromancy, Labyrinth Ritekeepers & Pthumerian Elders cast Fire Magic, Vicar Amilia casts healing Miracles via a Gold Pendant (*Pendant), and WAY MORE. Many enemies have abnormal eye quantities (6 eyed Channelers, Oolacile Residents, Iszalith Capra & Centipede Deamons; note *What they are), Gwyndolin covers his eyes, "Gwynever" never opens hers, Seath is blind, Animated Beast Skeletons dwell in the Tomb of the Giants, ect (I can keep going). You see what I'm writing, yes? I have shitty health, but I've been needing to make a Redit Essay or something. One for each game. My health, though... P:
Althane, you noticed that you layed out dots that aren't connected & projected your desires, yes? 1 environmental suit of armor, that is a VERY clear homage (that also is in DS 1,2, & 3), does not connect the 2. Saying "Umbasa" (which doesn't happen) wouldn't connect the 2, just as puting a DS1 bonfire in (Witcher 3, For Honor, Fallout 4, ect.) doesn't connect them. I hope I clearly communicated my point. I feel my articulation was rude. I am sorry.
The Lesser Demon looks like the first stages of what would be the Old Demon King in Dark Souls 3, or at least serve as an inspiration for that boss. Really interesting and cool video!
that boss demon is totally cut from the chalice dungeons. I think he actually fits really well given the decapitated second head which relates to a similarly decapitated boss there. very cool video!
I think the Slug Princess could've been found near the entrance to Orphan of Kos' arena. It would sort of make some sense as to why all the slug creatures around there were so adament on bowing toward the arena. My theory is that she'd be waiting in that area, guarding it from any further intrusion. So if you were to visit the area, she'd have some sort of way of defending the area, perhaps by sounding some sort of alarm for the slug creatures to awaken and prevent the player from proceding. After having slain the entirety of the creatures in that area, she'd then attempt to push you away from the area herself, even though she's weak and not threatening at all.
That sack creature head slamming you; spat my beer out, it was so funny! It also looked like it was itching its butt by dragging it on the ground like dogs sometimes do. Last "boss" looks kinda like a Balrog. Great video! Keep them coming!
I had this disturbing dream of some imaginary area in Bloodborne. In a lot of ways, it reminded me of Yaharguul, but things were wrong. For one thing, it was a claustrophobically small space, just consisting of a mostly blocked off road. Most things in the environment are covered in blood and there's a bright red tone from the moon. The lantern is just a few feet away from the clearing, sitting next to a blocked path. The only way to go is through a tall door. The door leads to a spacious place with something I can't really describe accurately. In ways, it reminded me of some of the bosses, like the blood starved beast, the cleric beast, and the moon presence, but none of its features were prominent enough to make me decide what it really was. If I recall, the method of getting to this place was similar to how you'd get to hypogean gaol, where a snatcher in the hypogean gaol will instead take you to this place rather than back to the cage. I don't know what would've happened if I did "kill" that thing that was there, but I have such prominent memories of it and it kinda freaks me out when I think about it
IIRC there's dialogue (either in Latin or backwards?) attributed to the Slug Princess, so she was probably an NPC? Also, was... was the demon boss basically 95% recycled in DS3? The proportions and animations are really similar to the demon's you fight in Undead Settlement and the entrance to the Catacombs!
Proctor Conley I'm not saying I doubt you as that does sound plausable to an extent, but I am curious if you have a source for that? Even just a Dev blog or interview somewhere? Googling it I get some forum post hits from players speculating similar things but nothing from the developers or anyone connected to them. Maybe is there an interview in print somewhere that's not online? Or maybe buried in the middle of a video Dev interview?
It's likely the slug princess one was going to be the one that falls by us all the suddenly. Would be a great conversation starter and way to catch our attention to send us off on a quick duty. Lesser Demon would imply there's a Greater Demon. I figure it was an early prototype boss for chalice dungeons trying to figure out the line to keep enemies in the game to feel more like they belong in the game. Alternatively it's possible it was going to be the fight instead of Laurence the First Vicar, and would have been something known to old hunters that would tie the Bloodborne universe to the Dark Souls universe to keep the fans at it by FromSoft. We have seen several scrapped features in Bloodborne that could tie it to the other games more. As is we have Patches. I like to think the messed up puppet would have been in the pit of the tower below the abandoned workshop instead of the demon thing, and maybe a couple others would be hidden around near the Cathedral Ward, and more messed up ones would be found elsewhere adopted by either someone lost on their way with the old hunters or a follower of Mensis. The Witches were probably going to be with the deranged villagers in the initial area we see them. Alternatively they were probably the before the removed veil version of the witches, like before we kill Rom. The skeletons to me remind me strongly a lot of the Carthus skeleton foes that use many underhanded tricks in Dark Souls 3, but they could have been a Chalice Dungeon boss or rare enemy. It's possible it was used also as an example of enemies seen as too Dark Souls for use in Bloodborne. But the next fun idea for what they're purpose could have been was tending the door you needed a password for, beyond the area with a brainsucker, but try to backdoor your way from it. Because of the weapon style, I'd think it's more likely a dungeon enemy or something that could have been locked away in Cainhurst Castle for special lore dating back Yharnam's connections to elsewhere before times of hunters and receive unique dialogue. It's possible the skeletons and even the puppet thing were ideas for around the Micolash area, and would instead become smaller puppets there, but imagine the otherwise there.
I think the Lesser Demon was a boss which they were working on before the lore of the game was fully realized. It was also probably a Chalice Dungeon Enemy given the similarity of their face with the watchdog which also has fire motifs. It was probably taken off because it is using a weapon, whereas none of the beasts are supposed to use weapons.
Some of these enemies look like they could've been reimagined for DS3. Those slug princesses seem to move like man-grubs, those skellies look a lot like Carthus skeletons, and that demon looks like those big fire demons.
I greatly appreciate all your work and the others who put time into this! BloodBorne is one of my favorite games of all time. So seeing all this extra stuff is so cool. Thanks!
Quick question: Does Dark Souls 3 is running on the Bloodborne-engine, right? If so then could the demon and the skeletons actually be some sort of test-NPCs for DS3? After all From also build the Upper Cathedral Ward in Dark Souls 1.
really cool stuff man, I get the feeling a lot of the enemy/boss concepts between Bloodborne and Dark Souls III overlapped, several enemies in DSIII have a Bloodborne-esque quality to them and these cut creatures have DSIII qualities about them
That slug lady I could see being used in one of two places: either it the Research Hall in the DLC, or in Upper Cathedral Ward somewhere. And I would put money on those skeleton warriors being the inspiration for the Carthus Knights in DS3.
From 8:30 and onwards, the demon boss fits perfectly into the music! Did you edit the music in? If so great job!! And if not, then it’s definitely meant to fit the cleric beast’s theme
The fire boss seems so likely to be the Fire Demon from Dark Souls 3, the one who fight with Siegward up in the village. Even some animation are the likely same, for example the flying/jumping attack
That demon looks like a prototype for the fire demons that ended up in Dark Souls 3. Its appearance is similar and its animations look almost identical.
I see in a lot of game developers tend to use some their unused concepts in their future titles, almost feels like you are giving us a taste of what blood borne ll might look like.
Just a thought I had, what if that scrapped doll enemy was developed for a possible scrapped area such as a doll factory/warehouse? Perhaps that could've offered more insight as to the dolls orgins from the abandoned workshop and hunters dream. An abandoned doll factory also sounds like such a creepy and cool area to explore.
I would imagine the "king of skeleton" enemy was gonna be in the chalice dungeons, it does look a bit like it has the cloak the pthumerian descendants wear. I also notice that the "blessed demon" seems a suspicious lot like the gargoyles, namely in the fact it has the exact same sound too, anyone else noticing this?
I just discovered your channel and I love your content! It's so interesting to dive into the unseen mysteries of my fave game and also to see, which kind of design descisions were made. Probably someone has already suggested this, but I'd assume that the slug princess was an option to hail Kos in front of his boss room. Also I had the idea, that the doll-enemy could be the first design for living failures, and that would have been the one I've prefered. It's a pitty, the enemy didn't make it in the game. It is so cool! Keep up the good work!
The Skeleton King guy was probably reskinned and given updated animations and was added as the Carthus Swordsmen in Dark Souls III. No wonder Carthus felt out of place....
I feel like perhaps the demon and the skeletons were originally intended to be in the game, probably as part of chalice dungeons, and could have been intended as a few more obvious links between bloodborne and dark souls story. I mean, I'm still of the mind that the Corvians became the Pthumerians, and so on. It would also explain the more beastly evolutionary connection with blood and all that. Then all the weird freaky shit is basically from the aftermath of all the entities from the original world, where the dark soul and the first flame originated, which was annihilated.
I suspect the Chalice Dungeons were, at least partly, a means to still make use of some content that they would've had to cut out entirely otherwise? Based on what people have found out it does seem BB was originally more "Souls-like" than it is now
They aren't able to link the two games in any official capacity but that just means it's still allowed to be implied, legally as long as you don't outright say something it's allowed to be true without any repercussions, much like a sort of legal schrodingers box.
This is the kind of content I adore learning about and seeing, thank you so much for doing these videos and I know i'll be watching them all night now while I replay Bloodborne haha
A year late to the party here, but great video! It's always fascinating to see what was cut/kept in the game. I can't help but feel the Lesser Demon and King of Skeletons were probably early on coded for the game, but then the director or someone said it didn't match the environment or aesthetic in the game, so they were sadly scrapped at that point. It's interesting though, because I feel like a demon based boss would not have been too far outside the realm of possibility for the world of Bloodborne, since it is dealing with cults and religion. If elemental magic would have been a thing in Bloodborne, the whole Lesser Demon could just be another experiment gone wrong. The slug princess is probably my favorite out of this batch of cut characters... Anyone else find it neat that she had the same "white blood" the Doll has?
I think at first miyazaki wanted to make connection between bloodborne and dark souls but for some reason didn't do it, maybe it's because of the ownership of the IP, there are other enemies in the cut content that looks like are from a souls game.
Slug princess probably would have been in upper cathedral ward, (vicar Amelia had a blindfold), she probably has something to do with being uplifted as a partial great one, by Ebrietas, daughter of the cosmos
I agree that most of these enemies look like beta-versions of already existing enemies. The skeleton knights could be enemies in the chalice dungeons. There are already similar creatures but I guess they decided to use them for Dark Souls 3 instead. Like Zullie already mentioned the chalice dungeon were full of fire-oriented bosses and creatures since fire is effective against the beasts. The demons were most likely supposed to be creatures born from the fire magic or some sort of beast that adapted to fire like the Watchdog. Cutted maybe because it looks too much like Dark Souls and they wanted something more unique qhich could have resulted in the Watchdog how we know him.
Lesser Demon not only does it have a very similar moveset as the demon you fight with Siegward in DS3, but it has the same exact voicefiles as the Taurus Demon in DS1!!! How cool is that?😮
The King of Skeletons is actually in the final version of the game, but there is a very lucrative process to actually get them to appear. They are super tough and drop the... 👌
Now that I think about it could the lesser demon be a remnant of the demons of Boletaria? Lol I recall hearing a theory about the chalice dungeons where they were supposed to go far deeper then they are in game and eventually you’d get to the very bottom and fight some ultimate secret boss maybe the cut bosses that can be accessed with the chalice glyph. That unfinished scenery in the background would’ve been the ruins of Boletaria.
I feel like a lot of these enemies were pulled as Fromsoft really wanted to break away from the Dark Souls IP with Bloodborne, when originally they wanted to make Bloodborne's universe attached to the Dark Souls universe and backed out at the last minute for whatever reason. Since you're watching this video then you're probably like me and have seen all the different cut content that makes nods to Demons' Souls like Father Gascoine saying "Umbassa" during the beta or the countless lines of dialogue that make nods to some demon worshiping religion. Whether it was because Miyazaki wanted to make a deep dive into the Lovecraftian lore and the Dark Souls/Demons' Souls character set didn't fit, or that they simply wanted to make this a standalone game separate from their other works, the final game has an aesthetic that didn't stand well next to characters like the ones shown in these videos so they needed to be removed. Which is a shame, because I feel like they could have fleshed them out and just tossed them into the chalice dungeons and nobody would have even batted an eye. It would have undoubtedly made changes to the lore with their presence though, so I understand why their inclusion probably would have been tough no matter where they were thrown in.
Really loved this video, looks like the Fire Demon could have been an early concept that turned into the Watchdog of the Old Lords? And those 2 really cool looking Skelitons wouldn't look out of place alongside the Pthumarian Decendant, maybe they were supposed to fight alongside a weaker version of him? The Slug Princesses defiantly look like they should be in the Fishing Hamlet, perhaps an early concept for the things in the shells that appear in the final part of the Hamlet? Great video man 👍
