Blue Hydrogen. The greatest fossil fuel scam in history?

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Blue hydrogen is being enthusiastically promoted by natural gas producers as the simplest and cheapest answer to decarbonising our economies. But recent studies have shown that it's overall greenhouse gas emissions footprint is worse than natural gas. So, is this just the latest in a long series of diversions and deceptions from the fossil fuel industry?
Peer reviewed paper : "How Green is Blue Hydrogen?"
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/e...
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Research links
UK Hydrogen Strategy
assets.publishing.service.gov...
UN assessment of methane
www.unep.org/news-and-stories...
Chris Jackson resignation
www.independent.co.uk/climate...
Methane leaks
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.desmog.com/2021/08/25/met...
Blog piece by Paul Martin
/ distilled-thoughts-hyd...
IEA paper on CCUS
www.iea.org/reports/ccus-in-c...
New York Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act
news.bloomberglaw.com/environ...
www.newyorkbuildingenergy.com...

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29 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 2,1 тыс.

@dann6067 2 года назад

"The earth has enough for every man's need, but not for every mans greed." - Gandhi

@vonBottorff 2 года назад

The only problem with this idea is that we've not figured out a realistic en masse motivation system beyond greed and capitalist marketplace aggression. Greed, with the promise of wealth (however illusory and destructive) is still in the 21st century the default motivator. The only dent we've managed to put in this depressing fact of human behavior is that when we finally lifted the millions out of the lower- and into the middle-class in the post-WWII era, the Boomers were, by and large, idealistic-minded, i.e., a certain amount of what I call "shortage mentality" was retired. But of course my generation plimpered it all away like the feckless, facile clowns most of us were, and yet it was the first time we saw Gandhi (and other similar idealists, e.g., the Finnish eco-activist Penti Linkola) taken seriously by a large chunk of society. What we need is Gandhi's aphorism to be taken seriously. But it can't, won't be by people clamoring for more, more, more because they've been infected with a shortage mentality to panic levels.

@rajeshchheda456 2 года назад

Mahatma Gandhi is fully correct for his times. Today I feel there is more than enough available for everyone's needs, everyone's comforts and also for everyone's luxury. All this is very much available and possible in a highly sustainable and environmentally responsible manner. Problem and real hurdles are those who have power to take decisions, political leaders and bureaucracy do not have wise counsel. They suck up to powerful influences of polluters and fail in long term vision despite availablity of best minds around. They succeeded in healing the ozone hole. I pray for success in global warming which is far more difficult than phasing out a few gases.

@vonBottorff 2 года назад

@@rajeshchheda456 I know what you're saying is true, but many do not. In the capitalist West, the rights of private property trump all other rights. This has been expanded to legally shelter polluters and "wrong-wayers" in general. How? By making literally sacred any and every person's right to own land and materials, and to make a living, no matter how detrimental and destructive it might actually be from those lands and materials. That is, if I devise some plan to get rich doing something environmentally bad, in many cases our courts (USA) have protected that activity as under the purveyance of private property -- even when the activity clearly violates existing environmental law. There was an infamous case in the Seattle area where an "entrepreneur" knowingly bought protected wetlands, then aggressively lobbied and sued the state to rescind the "development" restrictions. He eventually won on the private property argument. This is just the other side of the labor conflict coin where a factory/business owner can do what he pleases and can ignore workers' hardships. This, as well as our inability to "reassign" workforces when they're obviated by environmental laws and actions, makes environmental improvement very difficult. Think about this the next time the fossil fuel industry argues over all the jobs that will be lost if alternatives are "forced" on us.

@vylbird8014 2 года назад

There were fewer men in the world back then.

@joesterling4299 2 года назад

@@vylbird8014 That's the problem, isn't it? Without industry, much of the world would starve, and descend into continual war over resources that would be far more difficult to obtain. Industry went up because of entrepreneurship, aka, the self-interest of someone with enough means and talent to bring it to fruition. Ghandi might call that greed. I get that, but it doesn't change anything. We're here now. Lets solve the problems. Let's not make horribly worse ones by throwing out what works economically (such as the free enterprise).

@robsengahay5614 2 года назад

I always had my suspicions about hydrogen given how neatly it fits into the traditional supply chains for gas and oil. The trick was to convince the gullible that hydrogen is ‘clean’ and then trust that people wouldn’t look too closely at the means of supply.

@tommoise1747 2 года назад

I can agree but it can be green. The same could be said for EVs they only really makes sense if the primary energy source is renewable. Same goes for hydrogen.

@MichaelAlvanos 2 года назад

Hi@@tommoise1747, Even if EVs only use electricity from coal fired plants, it is better results for the environment than using ICE vehicles. But ofcourse it's even better to use electricity made from renewables.

@DBZM1k3 2 года назад

@@MichaelAlvanos I think his point was that Hydrogen can be just as green as a EV if the correct methods are used to create it. We shouldn't dismiss using hydrogen as an energy source/storage just because there are some bad ways to obtain it like the one mentioned in this video.

@tommoise1747 2 года назад

@@DBZM1k3 yes thanks for clarifying

@pin65371 2 года назад

The issue with only relying on electricity is countries like Canada where we dont get much sun during the winter we need an option to keep things running. During the winter we get like 4 hours of sun per day and only a few days where we would get enough wind. Hell even during the summer a lot of time its cloudy so the efficiency of the panels goes down. If we have a forest fire then the panels are basically useless. We are working on blue hydrogen with carbon capture. Methane isnt much of an issue either since they can capture that as well. Meanwhile they keep building hydro electric dams which produce a massive amount of methane that cant be captured since its spread out over a massive area. Either they need to use natural gas or hydrogen.

@johnway9853 2 года назад

Sir, you are just simply fabulous at deciphering and distilling for the rest of us the truths we all need to understand. Thank You.

@tobiasL1991 2 года назад

That final point is a great one, the fact remains we need hydrogen for multiple vital processes, but we do not in any way shape or form need it to heat our homes or cook.

@JD-cz5ci 2 года назад

Hydrogen is storage for when we have excess solar and wind. More solar panels are cheaper than more battery capacity. Get to much solar for cloudy days. Sunny days make hydrogen. The hydrogen for planes and heavy industry.

@tobiasL1991 2 года назад

@@JD-cz5ci Couldn't have said it better myself!

@JD-cz5ci 2 года назад

I'm in my early 30s and I can remember saying to my dad that video can't work online. There isn't enough bandwidth. I feel like the solar energy issue will be similar. Not quite as fast the physical things are bigger to make but panels are getting real cheap. And actually don't have to get much cheaper. Make financial sense in grey Britain for a homeowner right now. Hydrogen means they make sense in the tropics big time.

@michaelchildish 2 года назад

Are any of you aware that hydrogen is the smallest molecule, which makes it extremely difficult to contain safely, and that if enough of it escapes, it might do serious damage to the Ozone layer? I only got told this by a guy recently. I'm no expert on climate science but this guy is smarter than me, and it is a real concern to him. Many, many, things in life are about picking out the lesser evil, and I'm not sure Hydrogen is the wonder fuel it's been claimed to be... We may honestly be better off with THORIUM for shipping and international travel! A new alloy has made it possible to contain the corrosive, radioactive substance. Meanwhile nuclear fission is inarguably a lesser evil than fossil fuels, modern reactor designs are intrinsically safer than the badly-mismanged-by-commies Chernobyl and Terrible Location of Fukushima, and pollution harms more people than have ever been harmed in nuclear meltdowns!

@finddeniro 2 года назад

@@michaelchildish Ozone Layer is damaged.More ultra violet ; the sun is more radiant...Freon and other Factors..I think Ozone Generators should Build..High Pressure stainless steel Containers are being built for Hydrogen. .A Few Random thoughts..

@BenMitro 2 года назад

Not in Australia, we are still in the 1900's in relation to fossil fuels, therefore 2050 is around 150 years away at least...we've got plenty of time.

@mykehog6646 2 года назад

You mean the 1950's and going bacwards with these bought fossil fools..

@2Fat2Furi0us 2 года назад

Sadly your government is... something else.

@julianshepherd2038 2 года назад

We all know Australia is a myth

@2Fat2Furi0us 2 года назад

@@julianshepherd2038 Your father is a myth.

@kmw4359 2 года назад

At least you’re way ahead of the US on water harvesting.

@richardrigling4906 2 года назад

If it were not so deadly serious, the wriggling and weaselling by the fossil fuel industry would be hilarious. However, it is deadly serious. Any H2 derived from fossil source, be they solid, liquid or gas are environmentally counter productive, particularly when you include thermodynamic losses. Any process that transforms energy from one form to another is NEVER 100% efficient. Therefore ALL forms of H2 energy use are inherently inefficient. H2 only makes sense when no other energy source works - for example one possibility being aircraft propulsion. Unfortunately the fossil fuel industry is far to wealthy and far too short on honest evaluation and far too short on imaginative thinking to do anything but their current campaign. It's not disinformation. It's lies - to themselves and to the public

@maozedong549 2 года назад

Well...from a technological point of view it's a bit difficult to use something that would make "1/4 the power" and burn at +2000°c.

@briannugent5518 2 года назад

Well said in a nutshell

@steve-o6413 2 года назад

Magnetohydrodynamic gives you both Hydrogen and can turn a Turbine to feed the Electrical Power Grid. How's that for efficiency...

@briannugent5518 2 года назад

@@steve-o6413 I searched for MHD electrolysis and found an ACS org article titled "Magnet doubles hydrogen yield from water splitting" which sounds great. The less efficient anode where O2 evolves, when made of magnetic material in the presence of a magnet doubles the current density. This doubles the O2 which correspondingly doubles the H2. So doubling the H2 & O2 yields with double the current leaves the energy conversion efficiency the same?? My previous reply with links disappeared.

@terenceiutzi4003 2 года назад

I am a welder and use Co2 as a shielding gas and over the last 5 years the price of Co2 has more then tripped because the amount in the air where they run the liquid air processes has dropped drastically so it is probably a good thing that they make 99 percent of the industrial Hydrogen from methane and produce cheep Co2 as a byproduct! The problem is the filling stations just vent the Co2 to the atmosphere!

@dstarley 2 года назад

I'm a chemical engineer so I find the hydrogen economy argument very interesting. I was so disappointed when I saw the UK government's hydrogen strategy and how much focus it places on blue hydrogen. I do think the scientific report makes some questionable assumptions, but even so it's obvious that a sustainable future should not remain reliant on fossil fuel extraction...

@musaran2 2 года назад

I glanced at a few hydrogen roadmaps, and they are appalling. Scarcity of figures or references, images only for aesthetics, narrative like daydreaming.

@justsayen2024 2 года назад

I can look up what New Zealand's doing they actually have a vision for production.

@elbuggo 2 года назад

Dude, the ocean will eat ALL surplus CO2 anyway, as it has done with the billion ton injected into the system by volcanos each year for billions of years. The ocean will regulate the CO2 concentration in the sea as it is chemically programmed to do, and there is nuffin we can do about it. And opposite, if ALL CO2 should disappear in the air, the ocean would soon release new CO2 (Henry's Law), and we would soon be back at the exact same concentration as today. We are dealing with a non existent problem here - it is pure hysteria and hyperventilating.

@MichaelHeinrichs 2 года назад

@@elbuggo what you are describing is called 'ocean acidification'. It's a well-known effect of the increase in atmospheric CO2. It's not a good thing, or even a neutral thing. It's a bad thing: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

@elbuggo 2 года назад

@@MichaelHeinrichs It is deceptive to use the term acidification in this context. It is used as pure fear porn. The ocean is clearly alkaline, and NOBODY is talking about the ocean will be turned into a acidic swamp. Maybe less alkaline, but no way any acid. Where did all the CO2 injected into the system for billions of years by volcanos go? The ocean ate it mostly, and stored it on the seabed as another substance. The ocean can easily do it again - that is pure chemistry. Why this insane fear of CO2?

@kam8460 2 года назад

It's sad how well it's worked too. Politicians are completely on board which of course, they're on the corporate payroll, so there is effectively nobody standing in the way of this other than the scientists they've been ignoring for decades. These people are fine with trading human extinction for short term profits. That's the level of insanity that our system encourages.

@davidjma7226 2 года назад

Don't forget, BP is effectively the UK government....

@teekanne15 2 года назад

human extinction, I doubt about that. The impact humans have on the planet besides greenhousegas emissions is so far the biggest contributor to extinction (Deforestation, industrial fishing, chemicelals in farming etc. The exploitation of our planet doesnt top when we are 100%renewable, we just shifted from an energy problem to a resource problem.

@Jeemus. 2 года назад

Your presentation makes these videos fun, despite the depressing subject matter, which is no small feat!

@rolliebca 2 года назад

@@recliningbuddha Finally! A video that tells it like it is. Really enjoyed this, thanks for posting the link.

@louislesch3878 2 года назад

@@rolliebca zw

@seanleith5312 2 года назад

People talking about 0 carbon, sounds like a good thing. Why? Because CO2 causes global warming? They say. That's what the media said, it is what the science says. The global is warming long before CO2 increase, and CO2 doesn't make it any faster. I am tired of this stupidity. Now, assume we have achieved 0 carbon, what would happen. CO2 has reached 280 ppm, before it increase to 380ppm. If CO2 gets below 250ppm, most vegetation on earth will die out. You want that to happen, stupid people?

@shadowofmyfutureself 2 года назад

He's VERY good isn't HE?

@stevenpeet5009 2 года назад

He is very cheeky, I love it.

@constructioneerful 2 года назад

This is great! (It exudes commonsense). My grump is how most hydrogen stories seem to be carbon capture stories in disguise. Carbon capture is a real problem. My point being the notion of carbon capture has become one of the most lethal ruses used by politicians to avoid taking urgent action (avoiding hard decisions) and by fossil fuel industry as a way of sustaining oil demand. Carbon capture is just so unknown and unreliable we really should not let politicians set plans that depend on it. But how?

@phillip1115 2 года назад

Carbon capture is not unknown. It is totally a scam. Take a look at "The Juice Media" here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MSZgoFyuHC8.html The australian government has been using it to scam their population for years and it doesn't work.

@maxdoubt5219 2 года назад

Don't get sidetracked!

@andrewsaint6581 2 года назад

@@phillip1115 brilliant. Cheers. I subbed.

@MarcoNierop 2 года назад

How? Simple, solar wind plus batteries will make renewable energy so rediculously cheap, hydrogen will not get a chance.. The energy needed to knock off H2 from a H2O molecule is a given and makes it a very inefficient process, no matter the technology will get better over time.. hence H2 will ALWAYS remain more expensive to make, than using the energy directly (as electricity) and with solar and wind plus batteries getting 40% cheaper every 2 years, Hydrogen will not have a chance. And it is already happening, like we see in the car industry, EV's clearly winning over hydrogen, and so this will happen in the utility as well... All this lobbying is just delaying tactics to keep the fossil fuel industry alive a little it longer, they know Hydrogen is not the solution, the market and general public will decide in the end, and I think the market already has decided. Solar, wind and batteries for the win!

@wakannnai1 2 года назад

Carbon Capture needs to be done. The IPCC report states that it'll be fundamental to keep below 1.5C rises in temperature. However, that doesn't mean we get a free pass to continue to use Fossil Fuels, and natural gas. The correct strategy should be to practice reforestation in areas where we can, use DCC techniques along with a steep curve to renewables (with it only being wind, hydro and solar) for our energy consumption needs. The US and Europe have vast amounts of land where wind speeds are high. Places like Saudi Arabia have enough sunlight (with a daily average of 8 hours) where they can transition to Green Hydrogen and export that globally for transportation industries that require much more energy dense solutions like trucking and aviation (and possibly DC fast charging stations that may not have the available generation capacity on hand).

@zber9043 2 года назад

Green hydrogen solves problem of clean construction (cement, steel), renewable grid power variability, heavy transport, shipping, flight. We should be investing a lot more in developing green hydrogen. But it should be mainly powered by zero marginal cost renewable energy I.e. an adjunct of large investment and overcapacity in solar and wind.

@DLWELD 2 года назад

Elon Musk sums it up pretty well: "the staying power of a bad idea is astonishing"

@paulhaynes5029 2 года назад

Is this the same Elon Musk who is using methane for his new rockets and doing his best to destroy the Boca Chica nature reserve?

@DLWELD 2 года назад

@@paulhaynes5029 A good trade off for sure!

@chokeeweebee 2 года назад

@@paulhaynes5029 Same Elon who wants to escape from earth because he knows our current systems and lifestyles are fundamentally incompatible with sustainability. Hopefully us poor people can start living more sustainable lifestyles and ditch the exploitative economic systems once the rich and greedy play colonial invaders on outer space lands.

@DLWELD 2 года назад

@@chokeeweebee OK

@Elviloh 2 года назад

Like planned obsolescence ? Like having a battery that will become the structure of your car, so you can just thrash it whole when the battery's dead, for a brilliantly poor carbon accounting, but great way to sell more units ? Astonishing indeed.

@mafarmerga 2 года назад

Five words: CARBON CAPTURE DOES NOT WORK! It reminds of when cigarette manufacturers put "filters" on their coffin nails. How did that work out for us?

@donlourie769 2 года назад

Carbon Capture does work. It has worked for eons in nature. Plants convert atmospheric CO2 into sugars to feed soil biology. The results are several tons of carbon build up per hectare every year in the soil where it stays unless farmers apply nitrogen fertilizer to burn it out and release the carbon into the atmosphere again. There are now thousands of farmers worldwide who have stopped plowing and using nitrogen fertilizers and are sequestering carbon. This carbon holds more water which reduces runoff and helps cool the earth with a more balanced water cycle.

@mb-3faze 2 года назад

@@donlourie769 Sadly, plants only convert CO2 in to sugars during the day. At night time plants respire (release carbon dioxide) just like animals. Further, the amount of respired CO2 increases as environmental temperatures increase which doesn't bode well in a warming climate. We will not be able to plant our way out of trouble.

@mafarmerga 2 года назад

@@donlourie769 "thousands of farmers worldwide who have stopped plowing and using nitrogen fertilizers and are sequestering carbon." That is NEVER going to make a dent in 410 ppm CO2. Plus, unless you bury biomass and turn it into coal, the termites and fungi will turn it back into CO2. Weathering of rock is the only proven way to get CO2 out of the atmosphere for long periods of time. And besides, sequestering carbon by farming is NOT what these energy giants are talking about.

@marcdefaoite 2 года назад

Consistently the best climate channel on the interwebs.

@tylerwood9585 2 года назад

Totally agree!!

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Thanks Marc. I really appreciate that :-)

@AndrewBlucher 2 года назад

What the heck are "interwebs"? Is this another unnecessarily made up word, when a shorter existing word would do, ie internet?

@julianshepherd2038 2 года назад

There is a good one from America with a less attractive slaphead.

@gregbailey45 2 года назад

@@AndrewBlucher it's just shorter than The World Wide Web, to which it usually refers.

@replevideo6096 2 года назад

I wish that someone would run a similar study on ethanol added to petrol, and actually crunch the numbers. I suspect that ethanol offers little or no CO2 saving because making it is energy intensive and because it has a considerably lower energy density than petrol. A car will consume more fuel to travel a kilometre and more fuel during acceleration. In addition E10 can damage many cars currently on the road by damaging seals in the engine and causing steel fuel tanks to rust from the inside (ethanol is hygroscopic). Leaking seals in the fuel system and rusting tanks could cause a fire risk.

@incognitotorpedo42 2 года назад

I don't have any links to offer, but I think the analysis has been done, and the result is that Ethanol is a scam.

@klokoloko2114 2 года назад

You have that on RU-vid: Why Biofuels Are Terrible

@prasun6084 2 года назад

@@incognitotorpedo42 Ethanol produced with Corn is a scam, but Ethanol produced with Sugar cane is not.

@ThomasBomb45 2 года назад

@@prasun6084 where can I see more on this?

@ronblack7870 2 года назад

its a subsidy to corn farmers .

@rtfazeberdee3519 2 года назад

From what I've read, hydrogen for home use is not a goer for a couple of reasons 1. with our current pipelines there will be loads of leaks through the joints due to hydrogen is a smaller molecule. 2. hydrogen is highly corrosive and will corrode the pipelines

@DLWELD 2 года назад

Hydrogen also makes steel brittle - leads to catastrophic failures. Need special substances for hydrogen handling.

@incognitotorpedo42 2 года назад

@@DLWELD Hydrogen embrittlement of metals is probably what the OP was referring to. It isn't really "corrosion", though.

@paulhaynes5029 2 года назад

Exactly why the space industry always tries to move away from the 'obvious' clean fuel of oxygen and hydrogen. And why Elon Musk has (ironically) chosen methane as the fuel for his insane plan to colonise Mars.

@DLWELD 2 года назад

@@paulhaynes5029 I think the volume of the liquid hydrogen fuel makes it a non-starter for rockets - they just get too large. That's why Elon chooses methane - slightly less specific impulse but 1/8 the volume.

@rtfazeberdee3519 2 года назад

@@Selectronify most places have read about refer to it as a molecule (but it is a chemical element in the Periodic table) and embrittlement is a form of corrosion

@jonbeecroft1102 2 года назад

I was at the seaside with my grandchildren last week. It was near high tide and there was a distinct horizontal tide line on the rocks about half a metre above the water. Then I thought, where would that line be with a worst case sea level rises of perhaps 2m in 80 years. It is really frightening. Greedy old people really should care. Dave, you are a hero, along with all the other people exposing these greedy people for what they are doing and what they plan to do to our little planet.

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Cheers Jon. I appreciate your feedback :-)

@YodaWhat 2 года назад

@@JustHaveaThink What they are doing is worse than genocide, it is PLANETCIDE, and they need to be called to account for their multi-species mass murder. They want to burn something? Let it be THEM, preferably at a stake.

@jlmur54 2 года назад

@@YodaWhat Woa now. "Execute the office, not the man." Thomas Paine. : )

@valkyriefrost5301 2 года назад

@@jlmur54 - perhaps this is a case of where the office and the man are one and the same.

@valkyriefrost5301 2 года назад

You said, "Greedy old people really should care." Well, greedy old people know they will not be here in 20 years, much less 100 years, so no they really do NOT care. They only care about themselves and their immediate friends and family. It's the same systemic thinking by those in power that led to the French Revolution (1789).

@RolfStones 2 года назад

"So a new category has now been dreamt up, I mean developed". Well done 👍🤣

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

:-)

@anydaynow01 2 года назад

@@JustHaveaThink You also forgot the dream of Turquoise H2 with pyrolysis, supposedly uses less electricity than Green H2, doesn't use our dwindling fresh H2O supplies. and the byproducts are an ultra pure form of carbon black which can be used for a variety of things (cheap graphene feed stock, lab diamonds, tires, carbon fiber, roads) depending on the temperature of the reaction and H2. If RNG from crop waste is used it's supposed to be carbon negative, might be worth a look into to see how valid it is! H2 for transport and heating is a bit of joke, but decarbonizing the H2 industry would be a nice thing to have.

@Junglebtc 2 года назад

@@JustHaveaThink How did the Earth recover from the higher temperatures and CO2 levels before humans even existed ? I read that most of the deserts had vegetation because of this is this happening now

@wakannnai1 2 года назад

Green Hydrogen is not only the future for a lot of heavier unconnected industries but it's also the only way. Industries like the Trucking industry and Aviation industry have much higher power requirements compared to car transportation where EVs will do well. Blue hydrogen should not be tolerated. It does more damage than good.

@emilysantonio7059 2 года назад

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@saberxebeck 2 года назад

Another wonderful video! These videos must take absolutely ages to make. I often follow up youre videos by reading those links and papers to help build my understanding and knowledge too. Thank you!

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Many thanks Mr Nimbus. Glad you like them!

@davitdavid7165 2 года назад

The anticorporate burns were so good! Keep up your savage, informed style up!

@javiTests 2 года назад

Hydrogen only makes sense for applications where high energy density is needed, like airplanes. For everything else just store electricity in a battery and you're good to go. It's much more efficient.

@zapfanzapfan 2 года назад

Maybe make ammonia or methanol out of the hydrogen to make it easier to store and transport. Hydrogen is a bit bulky, or very high pressure, or very very cold.

@DLWELD 2 года назад

Problem is the low physical density of hydrogen (liquid or gas) requires huge tanks. That's why Space X uses methane in its rockets. A good trade off of slightly less specific impulse to being able to carry 6 times the fuel energy for a given volume. Applies to planes too of course. Don't want a big fat plane :+)

@katm9877 2 года назад

One more field that needs hydrogen to decarbonize is commercial shipping. You can't put a ton of heavy batteries on a modern ship, be it cargo or otherwise, because well, the ship needs to float and it needs a LOOOOT of energy to go across the sea. But yep, outside of those two applications, hydrogen is not necessary, just using electricity directly is both cheaper and more efficient.

@jonathancaplan4444 2 года назад

Yes! Great piece. 90% of our hydrogen comes from fossil fuels here in the states. It is not green at all.

@TheReykjavik 2 года назад

Blue hydrogen is the new clean coal.

@colconn57 2 года назад

The filter tipped cigarette of the Fossil fuel industry.

@MrJohanFrederik 2 года назад

There’s also Purple Hydrogen, generated through electrolysis from nuclear electricity

@maximinix 2 года назад

Really? Purple? Love it :-) If it is for hydrogen usage in the steel or fertilizer industry, pretty good idea. If it is to power H-cars... nope... use the electricity directly, way more efficient.

@Pegaroo_ 2 года назад

At least with that there wouldn't be any greenhouse emissions

@davidkorcak 2 года назад

I actually did the math for a modern hydrogen FC vehicle (Toyota Mirai 2nd Generation) and a modern, similar-sized battery electric vehicle (Tesla Model 3). In order for each of these to travel 1 kilometer, the hydrogen vehicle will need about 3 times as much electricity to make green hydrogen than it would take to simply charge the battery electric vehicle.

@nordic5490 2 года назад

Correct. At least 3x more renewable power is required. Some calculate 5x.

@abeeceedee599 2 года назад

@@nordic5490 It averages out at around a factor 2,8: 90% EV efficiency vs ~32% for a green hydrogen powered car. At least, that's what I read in a scientific magazine.

@neur0transmitter 2 года назад

What about the environmental impact of batteries vs fuel cells?

@davidkorcak 2 года назад

@@abeeceedee599 75% power plant to wheel for BEV

@davidkorcak 2 года назад

@@neur0transmitter Batteries use a lot of relatively abundant and relatively easily-mined materials, especially lithium or in the future sodium. Fuel cells use very little of quite rare metals like platinum or iridium which are pretty nasty to mine. Both can be recycled with 95%+ material retrieval. Don't forget fuel cell also needs pretty heavy & large (100kg tank per 6kg of hydrogen, 150 liters worth of capacity for 6kg of hydrogen at 700 bar) tanks from carbon fiber (very energy consuming) and polyurethane. Plus you need an electrolyzer, which is similar to fuel cell in materials but has a lot lower lifespan.

@meurtri9312 2 года назад

i was wondering why large companies were seemingly doing the right thing.

@richardrigling4906 2 года назад

Fungible or tunable ethics.

@adamanderson3042 2 года назад

Then you won't like this channel because this channel is optimistic and actually understands economics unlike doomers who think that capitalism is inherently evil and will fund fossil fuels to spite hippies. All of the innovation and hope that comes from wind and solar comes from a profit incentive that is being chased by institutional investors and billionaires. I guarantee you that 9/10 billionaires and 99/100 companies you've ever heard of are investing heavily in genuinely green/carbon reducing/carbon neutral technologies. Even Amazon, the boogeyman evil empire of the entire world is sinking billions into acquiring an electrically powered fleet of vehicles.

@meurtri9312 2 года назад

@@adamanderson3042 wow that's a lot of bullshit

@adamanderson3042 2 года назад

@@meurtri9312 Go ahead and tell me which specific part is factually/empirically wrong.

@richardrigling4906 2 года назад

@@adamanderson3042 I actually favor and support capitalism. However I detest those in power who use their position to “guard” their holdings through deception and manipulation just to perpetuate their businesses. Petroleum industry suppressed evidence of lead poisoning for years. Tobacco companies lied and suppressed evidence their products killed their customers. Fossil fuel industry is no different today. The problem is they cannot imagine an alternative to the way society runs today and so oppose alternatives, despite overwhelming evidence their industry is changing our climate. I don’t oppose capitalism. I oppose deception denial and resistance to better solutions.

@anonymous.youtuber 2 года назад

You have to admit there is a lot if creativity in the fossil fuel industry. How to put it to work in a positive way ?

@zopEnglandzip 2 года назад

You'd have to find a way of financially benefiting them more than selling their product does rather than the current model of subsidized fossil fuels.

@CitizenAyellowblue 2 года назад

Nothing more creative than graphs, maps, diagrams and figures that tell a story that is utterly contradictory to the truth.

@trueriver1950 2 года назад

@@zopEnglandzip AND in a way that would not let newcomers take advantage. The problem from the perspective of big- oil is that their capital is locked in to a lot of infrastructure that is not useful for a green H2 business. Any green H2 process can therefore be exploited more cheaply by green startups than by big-oil changing over. Anyone with a lifetime of experience in oil well drilling will lose out to a recently qualified renewable energy at the interviews for a post in a green energy company. A just transition would be one that protects the livelihoods of people who currently benefit from big oil (employees, and the shops where the employees spend their wages, and others). One of the problems that efficient market folk (Thatcher, Reagan, Friedman, Hayek, etc) have foisted on the planet is the dismantling of the "inefficiencies" whereby govts could historically subsidise such a transition.

@zopEnglandzip 2 года назад

@@trueriver1950 interesting response, it's important to recognise how the free market has given us solutions in the past, with cash incentives. Right now there is every incentive for US petrochemical companies to pump more than ever because they receive billions from the government, take that away and people won't instantly be put out of work but wages won't go up and less people will enter the industry while those further down the chain will invest more seriously in alternatives, once things have settled start applying the carbon taxes, and slowly ramp them up to allow everyone from well driller to consumer to adjust, you are right it can't happen overnight but bit needs to happen. The free market doesn't do well when you ask it to solve a problem that doesn't exist yet.

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

Similar techniques to oil and natural gas drilling can be used to make ground source heat pumps, and a lot of the techniques for the construction of offshore oil platforms translate really well into the construction of offshore wind.

@marcohangman5312 2 года назад

Green hydrogen should not be taxed so it will encourage more investors and R&D to focus on it.

@jockmoron 2 года назад

As usual, a very cogent explanation at a level that's much better than any UK newspaper or broadcast outlet - so thanks for that. You pitch your videos at just the right level, not dumbing down to the viewer, but guiding them very well through the meat of science - because you know anyone watching your videos is interested, informed, modestly intelligent and has some basic understanding of science and reality. It's just so depressing though, these companies (and our political masters) have had at least 20-30 years to get used to the idea of the fossil fuel industry being a sunset industry, in particular their investors should know, but greed is still humanity's primary driver at the moment. I think the likelihood of avoiding a 2 deg C global temperature increase (which is equivalent of a 4 deg C landmass rise in temperature in the northern hemisphere) is now something approaching zero. I say this because the man who knows more about global warming than any other individual is James Hansen, and he made it plain some years ago that any CO2 concentration above 350 ppm risks bringing an unstoppable tipping point in the planet's climate. I don't believe there's any science or scientist anywhere that could in any way prove he's wrong.

@rajeshchheda456 2 года назад

I thank all Patreons for supporting this content. This content is for betterment of Humanity. I like Dave for his no nonsense, crisp presentation of facts and figures that a dumbo like me can easily understand. Today's media and media houses do less of reporting and more of opinions, judgements and entertainment, Dave keeps away from all three and presents the picture whether hopeful, dire, misleading or anything else without resorting to dramatics. Keep up the great work Dave.

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Cheers Rajesh :-)

@rajeshchheda456 2 года назад

A question from dumbo like me, If carbon dioxide can hold great warming potential, why not flood the homes(in measured proportions) in winter with carbon dioxide during freezing winter so that heat generated by burning wood, electricity stays longer and keeps warm, and using lesser fuels. Could have a gas monitor that releases CO2 from a tank to maintain balance. What do people think about this?

@bakerpete2527 2 года назад

One of my many problems with hydrogen use is that you can't use the current gas transportation infrastructure to move hydrogen. You need a whole new system to move and store hydrogen.

@JC-kb8vb 2 года назад

Yes, you can and has been used already extensively.

@janjager2906 2 года назад

It is possible, however I like to see a thrust-worthy report on efficiency and leakages.

@Dayanto 2 года назад

There is however a lot of infrastructure for transfering ammonia, which is not only a hydrogen carrier but a carbon-free fuel in its own right with a significantly better energy density (by volume) than H2. Besides being denser, it is also easy to store and transport as a liquid, which solves the main problems with hydrogen. It can be used for a lot of things including shipping and even jet engines, and with 55% the specific energy (by weight) of kerosene, this gives a pretty decent range.

@ggg148g 2 года назад

Is there any hope that blue hydrogen production manages over the next few years to effectively prevent any methane leakage and store safely underground all the CO2 produced? I know it sounds wishful thinking, but hydrogen is not a solution for the short term anyway. In any case, we need to know that blue hydrogen is freaking dirty right now, and thanks to Dave for pointing this out.

@lestermarshall6501 2 года назад

The simple answer is no. You will always have leakage around valve stems and other moving parts in a pipeline. The leakage is a loss of income to the industry because then they can't sell you what leaked away. If they could have stopped the leakage completely they would have. The leakage is as small as they can make it though.

@ggg148g 2 года назад

@@lestermarshall6501 I get your point, and it's reasonable enough, but still they might be on to something that solves the problem but that takes some time to develop (I have no idea, just asking)

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Cheers Giancarlo :-)

@ggg148g 2 года назад

@@JustHaveaThink cheers Dave 😊

@incognitotorpedo42 2 года назад

In principle it would be possible to reduce leakage significantly. The amount of leakage assumed by the paper Dave drew from is halfway between the high and low estimates. No attention was paid to the reliability of those estimates. Was the high estimate from an anti-methane group? Was the low estimate from a pro-methane group? We don't know. If the low estimate is not an out and out lie, then perhaps if represents an attainable level. I have some experience with the handling of gases, and I can tell you that methane leaks are not required by any laws of physics. They represent engineering failures that could be corrected.

@kendoll8447 2 года назад

Thank you for your excellent coverage of energy issues. I appreciate your clear and thoughtful reporting and continue to be educated and enlightened. Bang on!

@wlhgmk 2 года назад

Even assuming that the steam is produced using renewable energy from wind or solar panels, that energy could have been used directly or used to charge car or home batteries. What a scam.

@GrayIsBlackAndWhite 2 года назад

As a species, we are so dumb.

@RogueSecret 2 года назад

Well, everyone is saying that co2 is making it warmer, still all papers on that have been proven wrong and we still but it. And even co2 made the ice in the north to melt, it would also lead to some brutal cold years insted. since the water stream would change.

@tranceporter7426 2 года назад

Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that man’s selfishness and greed will kill us all.

@RyeOnHam 2 года назад

Hmm, well then... Bye!

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

Or at least a lot of us, I doubt you could kill off every human without engineering a powerful bioweapon or something similar.

@alihenderson5910 2 года назад

@@garethbaus5471 carefull, somebody might actually do that...oops too late.

@paulfinglas1305 2 года назад

Roll up your sleeves 🙁

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

@@alihenderson5910 I don't know of any bioweapons that are quite that powerful yet, and no such bioweapons have been released to date.

@vi_terminator 2 года назад

As I always keep saying, there is no decarbonization possible without a successful Nuclear Fusion method to generate limitless electricity. Put all those dollars on Nuclear Fusion research and accelerate towards Fusion economy.

@Xonikz 2 года назад

I'm glad you're doing these talks. In my work with a handful of automotive industry leaders in the last 15 yrs, all with Hydrogen cars to market as investments, I've run headlong into the sticky conversation about how the hydrogen gas would stack up to current oil-based fuels. There always is this question about burning hydrogen that I think too many people are mistaken about. Hydrogen as a gas would not be used as a "burn" fuel to generate torque via powered pistons, but rather as a source for catalytic electron flow to generate electricity in a non-exothermic reaction, no burning necessary. Regardless of how the gas is used to generate power for the end user, the gas itself has never made sense for anything other than the feel-goods of short sighted marketing. Power generation that relies on using power to destroy bonds in order to create a new fuel to store energy is always less efficient and more costly than simply using power to directly "fuel" an operation or be directly captured in energy storage. If harvesting hydrogen in its raw form from the atmosphere for use in space is the plan, then fine; but harvesting dead plants and poop to process into hydrogen makes no long term sense other than as a potential money thing for the owners of dead plants (fossil fuels) and poop (cattle industries).

@vhawk1951kl Год назад

Why might it cross the mind of *anyone* that oil or other hydrocarbon fuels should be replaced with hydrogen?

@kenwilson1603 2 года назад

This was an eye opening video, I thought all hydrogen production was a green operation. Unfortunately the people that make the decisions are wine and dine by the petroleum companies. Enough said.

@thomasfsan 2 года назад

95% of current world production of Hydrogen is steam reformed from natural gas. It's fossil.

@chrisheath2637 2 года назад

What you thought just proves how effective the smokescreen can be...

@bammeldammel 2 года назад

I think it is worth mentioning that there is also "pink hydrogen" which is pyorilzing methane gas which means the by-product is carbon instead of CO2, which could actually be stored safely or being used.

@incognitotorpedo42 2 года назад

Interesting. That would actually be clean. I suppose the problem is the energy efficiency of the process. Must be terrible. (*pyrolyzing)

@xxxstazy 2 года назад

You confuse with turquoise hydrogen. Pink one is the one produced by electrolysis of water using nuclear plant produced electricity

@cyberslim7955 2 года назад

H2 is pretty much insane! The efficiency is so low, that if we replace all transport with H2, we need 4 times electricity what we use today. So if we have 20% renewable for our electricity, we need 5 time to get to 100% and then we need 4 times that to make all the green H2 needed. It is totally insane since it not only would take a century to do, but it would also cost way way too much.

@maximinix 2 года назад

You got it. But since most confuse 1 with 1000, especially in the media, decision makers make the same mistake (they read the same newspapers as everyone else). One hydrogen plane flying Jeff Bezos to space doesn't mean a cheap ticket to whatever holiday resort in a hydrogen airplane for everyone. Replacing fossil fuels with something else that doesn't spit out CO2 is awfully complicated. Remember Emmet Brown pulling his hair, shouting "Gigowatt, where can I get a gigowatt" (of course correct is gigawatt, Hollywood _sigh_) in the movie "Back to the Future"? Our "little" problem is "only": go find something like 100'000TWh somewhere on the planet and concentrate it enough so we can use it (renewable have this pesky feature of being a bit diffuse). Side note: transform the world economy to use the new TWhs instead of the old ones while you are at it. PS: some people don't react well to the word 'fission'. You get 30 years for the first 66'000TWh and 30 more for the remaining 34'000TWh. Good luck. Starting to pull out some hair, or already bald?

@trevormcburney9571 2 года назад

Only green hydrogen should be permitted as it also incentivised renewables growth by providing an outlet for surplus energy produced

@desrend 2 года назад

Here in NZ, green hydrogen is the con. They are planning to close an AL smelter which is powered from hydro and use the access power to make green hydrogen. Sounds great, but then they will continue to run a coal-fired gen plant, which will keep the wholesale price of electricity higher resulting in more profits for the power generating companies, of which the NZ govt is a major shareholder

@TobyKinkaid11 2 года назад

Correction, Green Hydrogen is Not the scam. It's the bastardization of the idea which is the scam. NZ has to come to grips (as all economies do) that Green Hydrogen is the only way we can decarbonize our fossil fuel world. Hold your governments to a higher standard.

@danmunro01 2 года назад

Well we may as well use that electricity down here in Southland to make either Aluminium or Hydrogen close to the generation. Too inefficient to try sending it to Auckland.

@gunnargu 2 года назад

Here in Iceland, we use geothermal for power generation and hot water/house heating. We use electricity for cooking.

@RyeOnHam 2 года назад

With nuclear power, we could simply split water molecules. Done. Zero carbon. Zero greenhouse gas.

@alexanderdekoning9975 2 года назад

This was an incredibly eye-opening video, thank you very much for doing this. I am doing a PhD on green hydrogen production from biogas reforming (using chemical looping) and would love to hear a bit more detail about your opinions on green hydrogen. You touched upon it briefly in this video but would you perhaps be able to make a short video exploring it some more? I would be very interested in learning more about it and whether green hydrogen actually has a future or direct electrification is the only way forward to try and mitigate the possibility of global crop failures within the next decade.

@ericwolff6059 2 года назад

The production of hydrogen, by whichever means, is highly inefficient, and a total waste of resources. Meanwhile the continuing evolution of batteries sees increasing capacity, shorter charge times and, in the case of vehicles, greater travel distances. This leaves inefficient hydrogen (production, use, and development) being far outpaced by modern battery technology.

@xiphosura413 2 года назад

I just hope an improved battery technology comes along to replace Li-ion batteries with something that requires less rare metals and more importantly, demands less from countries with very dubiously ethical mining practices. The immense increase in battery production has directly fuelled so many oppressive regimes and really hindered development in many poorer countries, because cheap raw materials is a direct profit incentive for further human rights violations. If we could find a way to create a substitute with comparable performance which does not require such materials, it would truly be a great thing.

@jschreiber6461 2 года назад

@@xiphosura413 Checkout USGS on how unrare rare metals are, and the availability of lithium or the vast deposits of lithium & copper left behind in Afghanistan instead of mining them to rebuild & fund the country. Cobalt was the only dubious one which has since largely been dropped. USGS annual survey is highly informative. Avoid mainstream media talking heads. Remember the oil industry is fighting mining of EV metals that threaten its profits, while continuing to extract in the worst regimes you can imagine. Don’t get played by their paid for media, do your own primary research.

@jschreiber6461 2 года назад

@Eric Wolff, the fossil fuel industry has brainwashed & bought politicians and citizens who have no science or numeracy background into swallowing their greenwashing of fossil hydrogen. Make 95% from fossil fuel as its the only cost effective way and have 5% via electrolysis to fool the idiots into thinking that’s where the other 95% comes from. Helped by the scientifically ignorant deluded idiots who want to believe. 1 ton of H2 produces 9tons of CO2. No getting out of that. Nor is the huge inefficiency of electrolysis which even at its throretical best, is appalling compared to battery.

@ThomasBomb45 2 года назад

How do you propose we make ammonia and other chemicals without first producing hydrogen? How do you run a steel smelter on electricity? There are uses for hydrogen. They are not as large as today's uses for methane, but they need to be planned for

@xiphosura413 2 года назад

@@ThomasBomb45 The unavoidable requirement for hydrogen could easily be covered by 100% renewable energy electrolysis processes, especially if we move away from hydrogen as a potential fuel or energy storage solution. Electrolysis is very energy expensive, but it is a no-brainier that when there is excess power being generated, we can use it to produce hydrogen for industrial purposes without having to involve fossil fuels.

@LivingProcess 2 года назад

Brilliant as always

@Sum_SpaceX 2 года назад

Thank you for including heat pumps as part of the solution. It is so often disregarded and deriving heat and cooling from a ground source is effective and efficient.

@drbasharat7158 2 года назад

Excellent talk. Very informative. Please use more animations in your videos in future for laypersons to understand easily

@bobgnarley1 2 года назад

Next weeks video - "How to put your head between your legs and kiss your backside goodbye." If ever a channel needed 7.8 billion subscribers, it's this one! Thanks all!

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

:-) Thank you

@morkovija 2 года назад

Props to Chris Jackson for speaking the truth

@Zorlof 2 года назад

You channel is so underrated, your content hopefully will entice viewers to subscribe and spread the knowledge. That golden age of consumerism is coming to an end.

@LeicesterMike 2 года назад

Excellent video, I have shared via twitter and it has been picked up by one of the authors of the report you cite. Hopefully it will get you some further publicity, subscribers and supporters for your excellent channel

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Hi Mike. Thanks for your support. I really appreciate that :-)

@daphnescombine 2 года назад

Dave, thank you for another brilliant explainer. I had significant doubts about hydrogen but never saw such a comprehensive explanation. I’m sure there are certain applications where hydrogen is a logical fuel alternative (shipping?), but there is no logic in it for domestic use.

@philipyoung7034 2 года назад

I first heard of blue hydrogen from a local news article about a Saskatchewan company, Proton Technologies, that extracts hydrogen from orphaned oil wells. I didn't think about the energy that would go into making the steam, even though the carbon-dioxide would be created and would stay underground. I thought that it ought to be environmentally sound. Thanks for the think.

@ericlotze7724 2 года назад

I think also it is a way for the government to essentially subsidize feedstocks for more recently needed process of the fossil fuel Industry! Enhanced Oil Extraction is needed as many aging oil fields need “well stimulation” and EOR to even remain economically viable Also many heavier oils extracted now need all sorts of refining processes using hydrogen to reach a usable product, ESPECIALLY to lighter products such as gasoline etc. Some examples are Hydrodesulferization, Hydrodemetalization, Hydrocracking, etc So essentially the government is subsidizing the technology needed to prevent petroleum from becoming a “stranded asset” (see the concept of the “Carbon Bubble” and all that) and calling it “environmentalism” Granted i *am* team hydrogen economy (+ other power/biomass-to-x technology, such as DME and Methane etc) but doing so from fossil fuels *that requires investment in new research/infrastructure* does not make sense.

@acmefixer1 2 года назад

At 13:00 Dave talked about green hydrogen's problems, and at 13:30 he said why not just use the electricity directly for the home. Herein is the whole problem: the solar and wind electricity is generated at times when it is not needed and not generated when it is needed. So we still have to deal with the issue of delaying the electricity by storing it somehow. This could be batteries, or any of the other methods discussed here previously. In order to provide enough electricity during windless and cloudy days, there has to be enough storage for 3 to 4 times the peak load. Batteries would be too expensive and there aren't enough. Pumped hydro would be good if enough reservoirs could be built. But those are expensive and have environmental issues. Whatever method is used, it must be very large scale and capable of storing for days or months in the case of use in winter. And there will be so much excess electricity that the round trip efficiency is not important (as so many 'experts' have been critical about). Green hydrogen is proposed by many researchers. Lately I have heard a lot of whining from 'experts' about problems that hydrogen has, such as it leaks out of containers and causes steel pipes to become brittle. I counter with the fact that these have already been taken care of by the producers of gray hydrogen. And as Dave has already explained, hydrogen can be changed to ammonia and stored. And Lavo, Homepower Picea, Gencell, Plug Power, Bloom Energy and Ballard have already developed systems that do this using hydrogen. Dave has brought up some of RethinkX aka Tony Seba's research, and he gets into this same subject in detail. The hydrogen fuel cell plays a major part in systems that store electric power for use at peak times. Toyota, Hyundai, Honda and others already have HFCEVs on the roads. The world must change and abandon fossil fuels as soon as possible, and green hydrogen which is made from excess wind and solar electricity which would otherwise be wasted, is the essentially free solution.

@DLWELD 2 года назад

Actually check out Elon Musk's Distributed Power Station concept - starting now - co-ordinates all the thousands of power wall households to feed electricity back into the grid - and accept charging from the grid - like a giant buffer to smooth out the renewable variations. Of course in Australia there is the giant TSLA battery - 193.5 megawatt hours - better, faster, cheaper than a gas powered "peaker" plant. Apparently has saved $40 million in first year of operation. A new 450 MWH battery is currently going in in Victoria.

@acmefixer1 2 года назад

@@DLWELD This is called V2G vehicle to grid and VPP virtual power plant.

@richardfulfordfishlifepond89 2 года назад

We have to stop burning stuff. No ifs and no buts.

@platin2148 2 года назад

The sad thing is that steel and others like the chemical industry need hydrogen. And it seems like a lot of countries try to cut the corner on that side. I doubt blue hydrogen is a good idea will be miss used and not properly watched on. Sad thing is that russia actually has natural methane sources too..

@markp8295 2 года назад

On the plus side, the first delivery of green hydrogen produced steel was made to Volvo last month. Sadly not at mass production yet. But a great proof of concept.

@platin2148 2 года назад

@@markp8295 From where did they get the hydrogen for that endvour? From what i know the biggest pilot for a green electrolysis of hydrogen is currently by a steel company in Austria called Voest..

@jessiedoggie1 Год назад

Methane pyrolysis is currently being developed as another approach for generating hydrogen with a low carbon footprint. The process produces rubber grade carbon black as a coproduct and requires only 15% of the energy that electrolysis requires to split water. A commercial plant in the US midwest is being expanded to produce 60 t/y of hydrogen and 180 t/y of carbon black.

@jessiedoggie1 Год назад

kt/y not t/y

@doylewiebe1169 2 года назад

You asked the question - in a rhetorical way - why bother with even green hydrogen when the electricity used to make it could be more efficiently used directly. I come from one of several industries - agriculture in my case - that use large mobile equipment miles from a power source that need to operate long hours and be “refuelled” quickly. From everything I’ve seen to date, liquid green hydrogen would be a much better fit than trying to figure out how to recharge or swap out huge capacity batteries.

@jurepecar9092 2 года назад

Only viable H2 production is using nuclear reactors to warm up water above 800 degC where it starts to fall apart to H2 and O2. Everything else is problematic at best. This nuclear option is interesting for small modular reactors, installed where H2 is needed, for example future airports.

@sebKern91 2 года назад

Yes, SMRs are important. But we also need big nuclear plants. I think of huge nuclear refineries with maybe 50GW or more, providing enough power for producing big amounts of gases (methane for cooking and heating, propane for your gas grill, butane for camping), liquids (gasoline, kerosene, diesel, fuel oil, naphtha, white spirit, heavy oil, and all kinds of oils, solvents and chemical precursors) and solid hydrocarbons (e.g. plastics or charcoal lighter). We should also produce proteins and fatty acids via Power-to-X, to replace soybean and palm oil monocultures. Of course, those big nuclear plants should also provide masses of electricity and heat for the entire region; for all homes, industries, and for vertical farming. We need a mix of small (~100-300MW), big (~1-5GW) and huge (50GW and more) nuclear power plants + refineries / hydrogen production facilities. SMRs are nice for in-situ production of electricity, district heating and fuel, for supplying airports, train depots, villages, towns/districts, and single factories. But we also need some bigger plants, because the need for power + heat + chemicals will be huge. Bigger plants have the potential to be cheaper, thanks to economy of scale. Smaller plants are good if you want to avoid long transport routes, and if you need your heat/fuel just in place, or to provide power to remote locations.

@rhwinner 2 года назад

I have tried the blue hydrogen but for a really great experience, the white is incredible...

@allotmentuk1303 2 года назад

Normally I give this channel a thumbs up on an upload BUT today its 10 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 At present I am trying to work out what central heating boiler to fit as in 8 years I could be changing it again in 8 years if not sooner as part of my contribution to reducing my carbon footprint I was going down the Geo Heat Pump Route. Then found the governments preference for Hydrogen but I am at the asking questions stage. Had no idea about four different types of hydrogen . When I thought only one hydrogen one thought was how are they going to empty and purge the pipes? Not a problem if using Blue Hydrogen New question now can one do the same with Green Hydrogen? and while on questions why is there not a ban on installing Gas boilers in new Build I thought the idea was to decrease emmissions not increase. Love the channel. Mike

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Hi Mike. All very good questions. I can highly recommend the 6-part series over on the Fully Charged RU-vid channel, looking at all current and potential future options for domestic home heating and electricity.

@huubj6289 Год назад

Tell me, how do you store electricity generated by solar panels in summer in order to heat your house in winter? How will you transport energy when everything is electrically driven? By tripling your electricity network? Current natural gas piping can be easily used for transporting hydrogen. You can store it (for years if necessary), you can transport it, you can get it from all over the world.

@elbobosan2 2 года назад

Carbon Capture is the new Fusion Power - I fear that it’s the current version of flying cars and moon cities fantasies from the atomic age.

@spencerhurst4547 2 года назад

The reason to leave the “energy hungry middle man” (and I agree the round trip efficiency is shit) is that the hydrogen infrastructure acts as built in energy storage, an aspect crucially missing from the direct renewables to electric appliances equation. Mining Africa for the necessary battery material feels tragically colonial.

@Shakrii 2 года назад

Even using hydrogen as a energy storage, how much sense dose it make to use for home consumption vs keeping production and consumption at/near the same location and instead use electric solutions within homes and business? I don't actually know, but would expect it to make more sense from an infrastructural standpoint and better consumption of resources.

@niallenright1764 2 года назад

Fantastic video thanks... just a trivial comment, you said "gets burned off through operational practices like venting"..... the process of burning off excess methane is called "flaring", "venting" is when methane is emitted un-combusted to atmosphere, e.g. because of a safety pressure value release or during well completion of fracked sites where excess gasses need to be cleared out..... venting is deliberate in the sense that it happens for operational/design reasons.... "leakage", on the other hand, is unintended release of methane to atmosphere due to poor maintenance etc.... all the best, and thanks again for the great videos you share....

@theboatcheat1204 2 года назад

This is at once alarming, engaging and informative - thank you!

@dewiz9596 2 года назад

Always a great way to start my Sunday morning. Just have a think, or go to church to stop thinking 😀

@mduzondi 2 года назад

Well I'm back from church and when I received a RU-vid notification I thought let me watch 😂

@BernardLS 2 года назад

@You Tube Religion is like statistics, it does not provide answers it suggests questions. If you are doing it properly.

@BernardLS 2 года назад

If you go to church to stop thinking some would think you are going for the wrong reason.

@mduzondi 2 года назад

@You Tube what is religion?

@mduzondi 2 года назад

@You TubeI wanted to question that ask you for evidence, but that won't be necessary, since your answers show that you yourself don't think and ask questions but you conclude.

@agw5425 2 года назад

Thank you very much for bringing this to us in a easy to understand way, love your "matter of fact" simple very British way of explaining a lot of important topics. Sounds like only steel and concrete making, with no co2 require H2, and as long as it is made with 0 co2 electrolysis that would be ok, but the rest is just as you said a expensive and inefficient way of delivering a burnable gas. Do you think we need a transition from old gas boilers to heat pumps via green H2 or would it be better to have the government "buy" the old boilers if the customer buys a new heat pump one as a incentive to upgrade?

@TheWinterscoming 2 года назад

Your videos always fill me with hope. You seem so upbeat compared to most of environmental youtubers. However you showing this shows me that you are fully researching your topics, which makes me feel better about the hope provided by your other videos.

@BernardLS 2 года назад

'Your videos always fill me with hope.' You jest sir, the man does not have a single positive hair on his head; he makes Jeramiah sound cheerful (:-)

@learnsustainability 2 года назад

Wow! Awesome video! Thanks for clarifying all this complicated hydrogen stuff for us Dave!

@cncshrops 2 года назад

Our descendants (if we have any) : "They had a chance, and they Blue it".

@rfldss89 2 года назад

Thanks so much for the off beat humour, that's exactly what i needed from a video on blue hydrogen 😂

@pittapittae 2 года назад

Very thought inspiring as usual: the combination of research and super clear and easy explanation makes a great approach to the communication of this kind of data. We really need to increase the awareness and the capability of critical thinking in as big a crowd as possible. Keep it up please!

@NetZeroTech 2 года назад

Such an important subject to cover. "...yet another piece of governmental obfuscation... making Excel spreadsheets look acceptable." These scandalous actions sound almost ok, even kind, when you say them with your calm voice. Thank you very much for getting the word out.

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Thanks Katha. I appreciate your feedback :-)

@serge6730 2 года назад

Cough, Physicsgirl pedaling Toyota's hydrogen solution while downplaying electric vehicles. Seems this industry relies more on marketing than it does on a compelling CO2 solution.

@mb-3faze 2 года назад

She has succumbed to the propaganda and has been dazzled by shiny toys. I hope she sees the light soon because she has many followers and only a few seem to realize they are being hoodwinked.

@philipyoung7034 2 года назад

I saw that video series. My conclusion is that BEV and FCEV will be the future equivalent choices of gasoline and diesel fuel. Meaning that most, but not all, passenger vehicles will use BEV, while most long-haul trucks will use FCEV. It won't be BetaMax vs VHS. Yes, she should not bad-mouth Toyota while they are sponsoring her video series, but I thought that her examination was fair and balanced. That said, a Ford ad popped in while I was watching.

@jackyork7967 2 года назад

I have seen no videos about Proton of Alberta, Canada scheme (other than those produced by Proton) to extract hydrogen from worn out oil fields and leaving carbon in the ground. First is this even viable? Next what color of hydrogen production would this be, it doesn't seem to fit. On it's face it seems to be an excellent solution but I need more information. I would really like to see JHAT or some other RU-vid channel do a deep dive on the Proton process.

@paulfaulkner6299 2 года назад

I'm thinking: 1 *Why has the government NOT changed the law to say " **_Every new build house or extension MUST have a solar panel on its roof?_** "* 2 *Why has the government not legislated for more trees and to protect the ones we already have?* I've thought - it's all a windup

@MatyasLemberTutorials 2 года назад

Great vid again. I was a really big fan of H2, but now I think besides some special application, it is not the right way forward

@frankbrindle8598 2 года назад

A great explanation!! In Australia, I fear that we will end up doing nothing - or get worse- due to the reliance/addiction that our current government has to fossil fuels and the resulting income, but also their belief that our small contribution to global emissions is not worth changing unless everyone does. The sooner we all stand up and demand the change required - the slightly less the world will be damaged. I for one want to go off grin and am aiming that as I build my retirement home.

@strayobject 2 года назад

It's ridiculous that a country such as yours or Spain for that matter is not going all in on electrolysis powered by spare PV capacity. Especially considering that we can now use salty water in electrolysis.

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

If you go exclusively by geography Australia is in the perfect place to convert to renewables, it has a massive source of solar energy, lots of wind resources, a low population density, and lots of raw materials to build everything.

@pennyoflaherty1345 2 года назад

Gareth Baus - These points are so true, however common needs like more hospitals & upgrading of current ones are some of the first needs of all ages. Not a money Investment like football stadiums ringing in loot for the investors Snouts in the trough , Hospitals like roads should be properly upgraded through government as paid for by all those taxed not privatized . Once privatized - responsibility shirked , only Top End of town can afford such exuberant costs ( all tax reclaimable) rich get richer poor get the picture- time 4 change not based only on ones wealth.

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

@@pennyoflaherty1345 Doesn't Australia already have a fairly solid system of roads and hospitals making most of your comment an essentially moot point?

@pikkuraami 2 года назад

It never stops to amaze me when people push hydrogen as a generic transportation fuel. It makes no sense what so ever to produce hydrogen from any source for application that can use electricity from multiple different sources. Yes, hydrogen has its uses when it is needed to get chemical reactions in industry. As a energy medium, not so much.

@timzaayer1713 2 года назад

Obfuscation aside, the major critique I'd put forth is that no entity has ever offered any proof that there is actually a way to lock CO2 away. Put it away and prove that it stays "put away". It's sort of a general comment about blue hydrogen that has always bothered me. Peer reviewed studies on the efficacy of hiding CO2 where it doesn't come back to contribute to atmospheric content would be VERY HELPFUL. Thank you for your reviews and videos as well as links that you are providing.

@JRattheranch 2 года назад

Yet again, thank you for a very enlightening insight into a difficult scenario. I've read a lot of articles about this already and your explanation has really clarified a lot of what I've read, most of which sounded as if it was trying to sell something that wasn't that advantageous. And so it proves, thanks to your information!

@JustHaveaThink 2 года назад

Cheers John. I'm glad it was helpful :-)

@TheNicog1 2 года назад

I dislike the comments about green hydrogen. It should be used as a form of battery, with increase of renewable energy generation there will be more periods with large surplus that needs to go somewhere. And for the timescale we need to go, real batteries just aren't developing fast enough. To store that much. 60% is better than turning off turbines.

@markp8295 2 года назад

Thank you for highlighting this and helping to expose the joke that is blue hydrogen.

@mute1085 2 года назад

This video is a perfect contrast to the previous one. The last one was full of "market with guarantee this" and "market will solve that", but this is what "the market" (which is just the will of the rich people on top) actually does. And this is how many of the promising "disruptor" technologies may end up, if they even get adopted at all. Thing is, the methane emissions problem could be greatly reduced even with the current tech. But it would require expensive investments and provide no profits. Without proper environmental regulations and brutal punishments for breaking them, it won't happen. And for any new technology as well there would be corners that can be cut, and quite often those corners end up being environmental externalities.

@Ocean-Climate-Geoethics-Edu 2 года назад

Tremendous presentation - thank you. We touch on some of these issues in our IOCS, Inter- Ocean-Climate School

@kjetiljohannes 2 года назад

The fundamental number for the analysis og 3.5 % methane emission is quite misleading for responsible production. Numbers for methane for Norwegian sector around 2012 was less than 20 kton lost for more than 100 Mton exported or roughly 400 Mton resulting carbon dioxide or equivalent percentage 0.005% related to production, and the methane emissions is on the way down. So you must look for regional differences. Numbers for grey carbon capture I have not looked into. Also, CO2 has been effectively been stored for many years in roughly 5 industrial scale projects. However, the energy cost for capturing, compressing and storing CO2 is substantial. However, I agree that hydrogen has so much losses as an energy carrier that it should primarily only be used for utilizing surplus captured renewable energy. The other area where hydrogen may have a role is in transportation where electrical is too heavy and to slow charging. To make a market for hydrogen in transportation may be a temporal niche also for blue hydrogen.

@adrianthoroughgood1191 2 года назад

Wow. This is one of the most depressing JHAT videos! It's obviously impractical to have individual CCS systems on every home boiler but you can have a CCS system at a Blue Hydrogen plant then use the Hydrogen in people's homes. I had hoped this could be a useful option because having looked into getting a heat pump at my house I have found that they are very expensive to install and more expensive to run, (at least until some sort of carbon pricing pushes up the price of gas) and they also give a much worse performance for the end user than a gas boiler. With proper genuine CCS I thought Blue Hydrogen would be OK, but I had no idea that methane leaks were such a big problem. I wonder if they could be reduced enough to avoid this, given a sufficient financial penalty for releasing methane into the atmosphere? Green Hydrogen can play a useful role by utilising excess renewable electricity generation when supply exceeds demand (which will be a big problem with a mostly renewable grid) because it can be stored and used later, but its inefficiency means it's not worth using for your main heating system for most of the country. Without climate safe Blue Hydrogen there are no good answers, which is why this info is so depressing.

@excitedbox5705 2 года назад

Seems you have been misled. Heat pumps cost 65% as much to heat your home in most cases. In some places where natural gas or oil is subsidised by YOUR Taxes it is not but that is rare. Heat pumps produce 12-22KW of heat for every KW of electricity put in for most of the year. When it is really cold they produce 5-7KW. That means as other heat sources need to cost 1/5th as much to break even with heat pumps. There is a lot of misinformation campaigns. Recently a UK oil/gas company was caught in a scandal lying to get people to vote against a tax credit that would pay for a large part of your heat pump.

@jimgraham6722 2 года назад

Atomic hydrogen leaking is also an issue over time. It drifts to the top of the atmosphere and floats off into space. Over a long time span we would lose the earth's water.

@BernardLS 2 года назад

Stop with the positivity Adrian. This is JHAT, doom & despondency must be expressed at all times! 🤔🤔

@stevenclarke7777 2 года назад

@@jimgraham6722 sorry but no gasses including hydrogen float off into space. Earths gravity continues to hold it down.

@5353Jumper 2 года назад

For now it is just better to have houses heated with natural gas than converting it to hydrogen because the conversion process is so inefficient. Better just send the gas straight to the houses. Green Hydrogen created out of off peak extra solar and wind power sounds promising, but again the conversion process is so inefficient it would be way better to just send that electricity into bEVs or use a more efficient power storage medium. Also green hydrogen made from surplus green power would have an unreliable supply, which the transportation and household heating industries would not be able to tolerate. IMO: the only hope for hydrogen is if someone invents a much more efficient way to make it.

@eclipsenow5431 2 года назад

"Cut out a very energy hungry middle-man!" YES! Well put. It's like hydrogen fuel cell cars - takes and awful lot of energy to get the hydrogen, only to turn it back into electricity again at 24% efficiency round trip compared to 87% for straight charging of EV's.

@orkin2525 2 года назад

Other than the situations where BEVs flat out don't work.

@Libertylute 2 года назад

@@orkin2525 If you check, you will find there are almost none.

@orkin2525 2 года назад

@@Libertylute battery powered cargo airplanes, shipping, and long haul or heavy trucking.

@siddharthbisht8522 2 года назад

@@Libertylute Here in cities like Delhi and Mumbai which are so densely populated where it is sometimes hard to find parking spots, where do we charge our cars. Should I throw a cable down from the 14th floor?

@demonhighwayman9403 2 года назад

How is humanity supposed to progress with all this dishonesty surrounding us ? If this news came 20 years ago we would be completely in the dark because you can bet the newspapers would have been paid to keep quiet.

@Brood_Master 2 года назад

I'm glad I watched this video to the end... I was getting impatient waiting for you to bring up the fact that direct use of renewables for heating is much more efficient than converting electricity to hydrogen and burning it... The laws of thermodynamics haven't changed.

@nefaristo 2 года назад

13:00 as for green hydrogen: couldn't it be used to store energy of solar/wind peaks? I bet the efficiency is lower than existing batteries, but in that case you should have mentioned the whole thing in my opinion.

@toby1248 2 года назад

The efficiency is about 30%, with theoretical limits around 50%. Meanwhile pumped hydro already exists and is 80-90% efficient, and batteries are 95% efficient

@luodeligesi7238 2 года назад

@@toby1248 conventional electrolysis is about 70% efficient, and it has a longer storage lifespan than pumped hydro or batteries. Batteries are most efficient for short term storage, pumped hydro is probably the best choice for mass storage, and hydrogen will probably see the most use in long-term, emergency uses.

@garethbaus5471 2 года назад

@@luodeligesi7238 long term hydrogen containment is actually one of the toughest problems in engineering, you either need to cool it to the point of being a liquid which takes energy, or store it at high pressure which causes massive leakage. Plus although electrolysis can be roughly 70% efficient, the fuel cells used to turn that hydrogen back into useable electricity are also only about 70% efficient which brings the net efficiency down substantially making batteries and pumped hydro competitive long term options even when you factor in the evaporation and charge loss.

@luodeligesi7238 2 года назад

@@garethbaus5471 it may be a tough problem, but it's already been in use for several years. You also have to consider the cost of construction. Pumped hydro requires a lot of land with a large elevation difference, and you have to consider the environmental impacts and permitting time if you want to create an entirely new reservoir. It can be done, but only on on a massive scale. Hydrogen is already being used in major data centers all around the country, where the odds of a power failure are low, but any interruption to the power can be catastrophic. In these cases, the combined 50% efficiency of current electrolysis and fuel cells means your initial cost could be higher, but if you don't need it for several years, you'll be saving a lot on all the cycles and battery replacements you would have needed during that time.

@toby1248 2 года назад

@@luodeligesi7238 the electrolysis itself is 70% efficient, then you lose another 10-15% in compressing the hydrogen to store, and another 40-50% in converting it back to electricity. That all adds up to about 35% efficient

@excitedbox5705 2 года назад

None of the green technologies getting hyped up are any better. The only thing that can still make a difference is Nuclear power in conjunction with reducing solar absorption (ie mirrors, cloud seeding, increasing snow cover). No matter what we need to reduce the solar energy absorbed by the planet to offset the loss of ice and energy we use.

@anywhereroam9698 2 года назад

Doesn’t it get absorbed in the atmosphere and doesn’t the atmosphere trap the heat in rather then it escaping to space? Would it make a big enough difference trying to reflect it off the ground whilst not fixing the GHG air pollution problem?

@briannugent5518 2 года назад

Specifically next generation small modular molten salt reactors that a) obviate extreme high pressurized water, b) can burn the vast amounts of so called spent fuel presently in cooling ponds and c) be also used as thermal plants (not as electricity plants) to power much of worlds process heat chemical industries and large district heating systems. MSRs would be 24/7/365 where as excess renewable powered green H production would be somewhat seasonal production.

@excitedbox5705 2 года назад

@@briannugent5518 exactly. Hydrogen is a net loss energy provider just like ethanol. It should only be used in very limited applications if at all due to the explosion danger. Maybe for aviation and other uses where you are energy density limited it would make sense converting EXCESS nuclear or hydro energy into a higher density green fuel. Even Solar PV produces lots of pollution and has very low efficiency, meaning after conversion losses only a miniscule fraction is actually used when applied to electric vehicles. Of the ~1000W that reach the earth's surface only about 12.5W are reaching your tires. You get ~12% Solar -> electric conversion, ~35% LV DC -> HV AC losses, 20%+ transmission losses, 35% HV AC -> LV DC at the home. And that is before it is even in your car battery. These fractions each coming off an ever smaller amount of energy. Almost 50% of those losses would be averted with roof top solar which is still not great when starting with 12-20% efficiency. This is why Nuclear is the only REAL solution. 50 YEARS of nuclear waste is small enough to fit in a medium size parking lot while being encased in several meters of concrete that reduces storage density. A single fuel load can power a city for 35 years (look at aircraft carriers). The oil and coal industry propaganda from the 60s has done the most damage of any campaign in human history.

@johnbee7729 2 года назад

Nice.color.selection for the tee when discussing 'blue' hydrogen. Good on ya!! :) I would not be surprised to hear that many boardroom presentations use this video and then end the presentation at the 2:20 mark.

@jamesmungall6669 2 года назад

And again: now I quote from an article in Forbes, which echos what I said in a comment yesterday: “In this case, the assumed methane leak rate and the technology and processes choices for hydrogen production and CCS are not relevant in a European context. The study uses a methane leak rate of more than 1,000 times what is recorded on the Norwegian continental shelf, and many times higher than the global average. The study also assumes hydrogen will be produced using steam methane reforming, which has a carbon capture rate of just 76%. While this is a relevant technology in some circumstances, the planned blue hydrogen technology choice is auto-thermal reforming. This has an expected capture rate of at least 95%. There are other issues with the study, but these two items alone clearly demonstrate how the study's results cannot be used to generalize about blue hydrogen.” You have a large voice and you therefore have a responsibility to address these complex and extremely important issues impartially with full attention to the facts and opinions of more than just one obviously biased group of modellers.