Bmw dealership blunder? Incompetence? 

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Dan is a master at his craft. Next level. Changing parts is a skill in itself, but truly diagnosing these vehicles is a “WNL” WHOLE ‘NOTHER LEVEL”. Dan is a blessing to his customers for sure.

If dealerships start recommending parts that aren't the issue. The parts should be free. A dealership should be the experts of their own cars. Not just another part replacer. I thought that was the reason they charge so much more?

Majority of dealerships are now staffed with replacement technicians, not analysts.

Hi Dan, thanx for your clear diagnosis on our car!! And also thanx for your quick reply on our additional questions. Clearly the BMW dealer (Dusseldorp Zwolle) needs to do some extra learning on diagnostics. Let’s hope the mechanical damage is not too severe. 🙏🏻

Great walk along, and great diagnostic steps! I have had plenty of N20 BMW's that do the same and never log timing codes, it always blows me away. P.S: I understand that you stated this is an interference motor.... but I can tell you now that from the sound of it and from the scope capture there is no valve damage. The fact that both valves are able to seal some psi to create the towers and then also have the ability to release psi, means they all can seal properly and relief properly, meaning all have good contact on their seats just all timed incorrectly, hence the same sounding cranking noise. If you were to do relative compression with no sync, you would get all even humps and not ever realize that the humps are the same but lower psi from being out of time. Again, even if you were to add an ignition sync (at least with the N20's) it some how on bmw's can still show up proper location on relative compression capture, so you would be lost thinking it is in time based off relative compression test and just not ever know that it is off time and the humps are just lower than desired compression humps. You would have to take a physical psi measurement to realize. Don't' ask me how I know, I learned the hard way on one lol. thanks for sharing as always. 👍👍

In 30 years there's going to be no classic cars from this era. The manufacturers have made them too complicated for the average mechanic to fix economically. Most of the complexity has little or no function except to ensure the car ends up back at the dealer more often then it normally would need to.

The best Mechatronist I have seen so far!!! Once you see Dan at work, you fall in love and want a job like this. Well done Dan! Good luck!

Another great video Dan. Did anyone think that the spark was a bit intermittent? Would be interesting to see a waveform of primary ignition against crank sensor.

Thanks for running through that diagnosis, definitely a gotcha on the fuel pressure thing. How that timing issue was missed by two shops is amazing, it cranks way too fast, I would have instantly done a compression check.

Learned so much from your channel. I could watch your videos all day long, far best automotive diagnostic channel on yt.

I'm not as educated with these types of engines and systems, I'm old school, BUT, I do understand what and how you diagnosed the faults. YOU my friend should be closing down the dealerships and put YOUR sign out the front. YOU are the trained mechanic that knows how to work on these types of faults, and engines. I followed your system of fault finding, as I was taught in the Army (RACT = Royal Australian Corps of Transport), respectively, not your time from, but mine was old school. As you also said, you MUST have Spark, Fuel, Timing, a motor should start if these 3 simple things are in order displaying, or testing to be GOOD. Well done Dan, you are worth 100% against any workshop. Thanks for the upload video. Cheers Teddy.

I certainly can't diagnose to your level, but as a weekend mechanic I know enough to check spark, air, and fuel. I'm completely shocked that the dealership and independent shop didn't squirt starting fluid into the air intake to see if the engine would fire. That is such a basic troubleshooting tip, and probably would have led them in the right direction. Thanks for a great video; learned a lot as always.

Another very tricky one Diagnosed with Champion diagnostic work. Well done Dan 🎉

Plain and simple, you Dan, are brilliant. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to educate us. You rock!

Excellent Diagnostic procedures by Dan. Not enough folks use scopes, but they save so much time if you learn to use them.

I was randomly checking info codes for my e65 730d and came across Dan's indepth knowledgeable knowledge where certain parties would miss diagnosis issues which leads for poor customer paying more and still having the problem, I found your video an eye opener, the go to guy mission impossible 👏

Looking forward to watching this one. Greetings from Germany 👌. Afternote: i have now watched in full and have to say this is probably your best video ever. As with your last one on the Mercedes, i just cannot believe that a “Gold plated” BMW garage with all their diagnostic gear can’t work this out as you could. Keep up the fantastic work please 🔥🔥🔥

I am wondering, why there was no error about bad timing. When the chain guide went off, it must have triggered an error. Do you think the dealership deleted it without paying attention?

Another great video. You are truly awesome at what you do. Dealerships are often terrible at diagnosing faults, so it's really important to find good independent repair shops like yours.

Had knocking noise in the front of my f10 525d. After spending one hour looking for it, the technicians diagnosed a worn steering rack. 2.5k to replace it. I called it B.S. and got a second opinion at an independent, it was a loose control arm bolt. I would have found it myself if I had access to a lift. I wondered how many other customers were told similar bull and accepted it.

DiagnoseDan, that was pretty cool of you to share that with us. Sometimes just getting back to basics is what is needed and to not shotgun parts at it in an attempt to solve a problem. Way to go, video.

The dealer,will never take the time to diagnose this,as detailed as you do. They need to make money, not repairs. I use to do it when I was on my own. Now we just do money. :) But my love is still in diagnosis. And when I get the chance to help in situation when some technician is stuck, it's my biggest self reward. Congratulations Dan for what are you doing, for all your professionalism and that you make it public as well!!!

The absolute smartest thing you did was to introduce an alternative fuel source and as soon we heard the engine not attempt to start anyone would know there is something mechanically wrong. How does this get missed by a professional? Put the parts canyon away! What recourse does the customer have due to the incorrect diagnose? Did the dealer and the independent shop give the customer their money back? The customer had to pay for two tows, did the customer get reimbursed for that? How many kilometers does this BMW engine have on it for the timing chain guide to have failed? Is the engine worth fixing since it is an interference engine because some valves could be bent? When you did attempt to start it the cranking sounded even which by using my ears I would say no valves were bent. As always you are a master and I hope other "professionals" can learn from you.

Would hope to see a video with the final fix of this car, if it happens for you to finish it. Great logical steps taken!

Nice work Dan. Would a relative compression test also show a timing problem?

Great video Dan and very relatable, unfortunately my Golf MK6 '09 has a similar issue... which its first diagnosis was also a broken fuel pump but ended up being out of time (which is also a common issue for the engine..

I'm lazy, my first thought was to spray starter fluid to see if it would attempt to start. The scope traces are next level. I find the control routine odd that it's based on cam position. It would make more sense that it's controlled by pressure output. Anyways great detective work!

Dan is the MAN. always an amazing look at how things are supposed to work as he walks through the logical steps

Thanks dan, thats was amazing trouble shooting. I’m in my first year apprentice mechanic here in montreal and have seen car that was sitting in the dealership parking lot but couldn’t be fixed and because im new in this trade. Im always curious about how in the world a dealership cannot fix its own car with all tools and information available.

Good job, I was leaning towards the immobiliser, on the earlier models fuel was one of the systems inhibited by the ecu if it was not happy with the response from the EWS immobiliser module.

When you checked for spark the timing on the spark was not even. It made me think there was a timing problem, even though I am no expert.

A view from the UK. This is a classic example of "over diagnosing" a problem. We diagnostic engineers always start from the basics, always. I am sure Dan has learnt his craft from some older, wiser engineers by his list of procedure he articulates &follows. It seems to me that since vehicles became "computers with wheels on each corner" the attitude of main dealer the younger "technicians" is to go straight for the electronics. In this case, simply lifting the cam cover would have saved hours AND money. I hope you made 'em pay Daniel. I am a retired installation and service engineer that installed computer controlled machine tools all over the world and retired member of of the institute of diagnostic engineers here in the UK and we have a saying here which is: Rule no.,1, Is it switched on?......The older diagnosticians will understand this.

Brilliant as usual. Never forgetting the basics amongst all that technology. I am left wondering if the diagnoses is complete? The question I have is:- Has the timing problem caused damage to the Valves. I realise the timing has to be fixed before this can be investigated.

Thank you so much DAN !!! What a big lesson! Let us know more Dan ☺️!!! We love it, I have taking note Dan! Thank you again and greetings to your family too !!!!

Diagnose Dan said in a really polite way, “your engine’s f**ked mate” 😂

YOUR VERY KNOWLEDGABLE AND YOU ,DO THE BASICS CHECK SPARK ,FUEL PRESSURE AND VALVE TIMING AND USE THE SCOPE CHECKCAM AND CRANK SENSOR WAVE FORMS THAT WILL ALWAYS TELL THE STORY AWESOME VERY GOOD METHOD OF EXPLANING AND TEACHING I GOT IT RIGHT OFF THE BAT THANK YOU SO MUCH

I have thought it was a malfunctioning pressure release valve. But I didn't know it was controlled by the engine timing. Thanks!

Good on U mate. Good work. Dealerships have good mechanics and crap ones too. I used be a service manager and the key is ........ Put the right technician on the right job. Every dealership will have guys better than others at particular jobs. Right man for right job. Regrettably, mechanics are required and incentivised to pick up time. Allways rushing thru jobs so they charge out 10 orc12 hours in an 8 hour day. It's allways money. Just depends on who's money

Dit was weer een goede. Ik had de motor wel willen horen draaien. This was another good one. I wanted to hear the engine running.

I think a compression test at the start would have this figured out. When Dan first turned over the engine it sounded like a engine with a broken timing belt.

Synchronized fuel regulation performed at the high pressure pump? I'll have to scope this out the next time we get one of these in the shop. Very interesting... I have changed these pumps for causing timing chains to jump on an Audi and leaking fuel into the crankcase, but never thought the timing had an influence on the pressure.....

Unfortunately most of garage are just a part changers, no idea about real diagnostic stuff unfortunately. U did find the issue again and like always. Thanks dear Dan

Great video. I like to check monitor status in global 0bd2 as a first step to determine if codes were cleared. I wonder if graphing the intake pressure sensor during cranking would give diagnostic direction?

Wonderful Dan!!! I am an old school mechanic. Thus, the very first thing I verify on any engine is basic engine timing - with the valve train. Using the valves, it lets one see how the valves are operating (or not) with the reciprocating mass. Obviously, after that is time for compression, spark and fuel. Seems very out of sequence, but it has always served me well. In this case, the Dealership would have located the problem right out of the gate. So, what was the outcome/fix?

Erg leuk meteen lid geworden van channel eindelijk doet RU-vid algoritme wat het moet doen ;-) als 48jarig it’r niet echt verstand van auto’s maar vind diagnose en oplossen van problemen erg leuk vermoedelijk de reden voor mijn computer passie groeten uit denhaag

Hi Dan i love the way you diagnose u do a lot of check to confirm that the timing is Good. U make the diagnose very easy ❤

nice. i guess the next wise thing to do is stuff in borescope camera into the cylinders and look for bent valves? 😭😁

Excellent class thank you I've only worked on one BMW in basics are all there

Sounds like the job was given to a rookie tech at the dealership. A lot of dealerships hire new techs fresh out of school. I had a Chevy truck that a mechanic friend of mine told me to take it to the dealership because the catalytic converter was under emissions warranty. He even left the code for the tech. The very first thing the kid did was to erase the code, along with all the evidence.They called me and tried selling me a high dollar tuneup. I refused and took it to another friend who was a master tech at Bob Peck Chevrolet and he found the bad cat and even warrantied the 02 sensors as well. Most dealerships, I won't give the time of day, because they always seem to replace stuff that is not needed or relevant to the problem. Only for warranty coverage or something that only dealer repairs.

Many dealers shop dont have tools to diagnose the sistem like you .Thank you Dan again for your lesson.

Hi Dan, thank you for the very nice video and for walking us through your tought process when making the diagnostic! My intuitions when you said what car and engine: motor grenaded itself to death OR small inexpensive part such as a sensor (with a prefrence to the former). I didn't know the specifics, but nothing to get the parts canon out and start firing. If what you were told is true, that BMW dealership is a disgrace Anyway, nice job on your part! Eager to watch your next video, maybe that Mercedes ;) Take care, cheers

Great work again, DD! Do these BMWs suffer in the timing chain system when oil isn't changed at specified intervals?

just as soon as you put an alternate fuel source into the mix and we know that there is a good spark, the next check is timing. this might sound odd but im not actually a mechanic but even i knew enough to figure there must have been a problem with the timing. makes you wonder how the previous garage checked the timing but couldnt figure out the problem themselves???

Thanks for your skills , a real confidence boost when I can guess your next step ...... The reason that the part was superseded is because of an inherent fault in the original design , of course no Manufacturer will admit or warrant this , at least you scored big time from your skills .

Check fuel filter and for air leaks in the airflow control system - filter etc.

If I remember correctly some 4 cyl BMW engines have common problems with timing chains up to 2015 ,there was a recall also

I work at the BMW and I find it so hard to believe that the dealership could not diagnose this. These engines not only are know for the timing chain issues, but there's several service solutions relating to this and also it logs crankshaft to camshaft correlation faults way before the engine stops running. So either it was a tyre fitter trying to upskill his career or a technician was as blind as a bat. Also you were not correct in describing the high pressure fuel pump operation. Its fully mechanical pump with quantity control valve, that is controlled by the PWM signal to close the valve so the pressure builds up. When deactivated or a fail safe state the valve is open (fuel is by-passing) so the fuel pressure doesn't build up in the rail more than 5 bar (that much low pressure fuel pump is supplying). However this would still allow the engine to run as DME would alter the injection timing so the fuel would be injected during the intake stroke allowing to engine to run in limp mode. No start is never ever a high pressure fuel pump issue on BMW/Mini petrol cars

Good to see someone who knows how to do his job in an efficient and cost effective way

This guys analysis is amazing, and it puts a lot of mechanics to shame. I think training standards have gone down a lot as there are too many mechanics that cannot figure out a cars fault. Brilliant video and explanation.

Lucky for the customer Dan that you were able to fix it as the service from the main dealer was just outrageous

You're offering excellent content ❤ thanks hope we see lessons for beginners

As a retired top BMW Master I used to freak out with some or pretty much all the so-called technicians. Most of the time they would contact BMW technical help is so much I can do without the car in front of them. They would never take responsibility for their own diagnosis and the poor customer would have to pay for half-dozen parts he/she did not need. And they have no shame, no pride in their work. They would just rip customers off and go home at 5 o’clock not a care in the world.

There's no substitute for experience and technical understanding that's clearly obvious from the great videos that you do and present so very well. Sadly through no fault of their own technical training for new people of all trades is falling short of what's needed. Employers seem to want the results without the required investment. Here in the UK Apprentice and continuation training has been marginalised and all but collapsed. Customers are sold the idea of competence but are at the mercy of unknown tradesmen.

I had the same problem on a 28i BMW crank and no start, after i checked for spark and a spray of brake cleaner in the inlet and it did not fire off with the cam cover to find the chain was loose and the cams were out of timing,

Didn't know they used variable high pressure pumps. But when I saw the engine, my first thought was timing chain issue as common problem with those year models.

7 minutes in have not finished the video, I would look at the high pressure fuel pump the follower for the cam to make sure it is driving the high pressure pump correctly. This is just my guess from past experience and want it noted prior to finishing the video, if the High pressure pump was removed incorrectly it could damage the follower not allowing it to pump the fuel correctly.

I hope your training up apprenticeship techs Dan .. just to give us all a glimmer of hope in the future

Age old mantra: Fuel & air (in the right mix) and spark (at the right time). Been chasing this since the 1964 Mini I started with. My dead on the road episode was a Fiat 128 with a broken distributor drive shaft. Took me a while to find that, grin.

Hope we get the follow up to see if there is valve train carnage going on or if the owner got away with it!! Nice diag by the way.

Excellent video. Well organizes diagnosis and explanations.

I am humbled by your knowledge and competence. Decades of working on cars does not prepare oneself for modern engines and technology.

Very smart! You can tell the experience and level of education. Congratulations from Canadian mechanic with over 30 years of experience

Excessive tachometer in the tachometer is not smoothly moving around its bouncing then you can craft in one of these sensors

Dan you're always my tutor, you made it simple and kept for diy technicians

great find and explanation as always Dan! thank you for all the awesome videos!

Wow, dealership incompetence, never heard of this before! (note the dripping sarcasm here). I would like to see the physical cylinder pressures to know if valves are bent (and would expect so). However, it is very enlightening to learn about this simple fuel pump timing being so critical and that there was no DTC. Clearly the HP fuel pump data is getting to the ECU already, so I wonder why the BMW software would not flag a code for it as it is controlling it to offload when it sees timing out? In this day and age, I see that as a design fault from BMW.

This could of been easily diagnosed by the use of a vacuum gauge. If the timing is correct cranking vacuum will be around 3-5 inches of vacuum. If timing is off vacuum will generally be between 0 and 1 inches of vacuum. Having said that Dan is a legend and wonderful to watch.

N13 engine should set camshaft sensor codes or for camshaft crankshaft correlation

Surely dealership techs are trained by the manufacturer, and they use manufacturer diagnostic software, the software should give you a guided diagnostic procedure, that the tech should be working through. You can see a huge amount of info on the diagnostic equipment.

It's the vent fuel valve,I had that problem

Oh boy. I would like to see a follow-up to this with regards to any possible internal engine damage.

Bro ur the best, very in depth kinda guy, love ur hard work, the bottom line is all these dealership are just in the business of selling and simply serviceing stuff, their tech don't know shit pardon my French, bottom line 19:59

I diagnosed the problem the moment I heard the engine crank. It sounds like the valves have not played tag with pistons. The inability to diagnose this correctly is inexcusable and borders on criminal with the known problem of the timing chain on this engine.

Do you think the engine still good, wondering how bad out of time it was and if the valves hit the pistons?

I'm amazed Dan, again your the master. I didn't even know this modern engine had a low and high pressure pump, also the shock that the t-chain guide simply broke, what quality.

U r really love ur work , ur commitment nd passion shows it . Respect, i hav a vw crafter , it starts on cold engine in a blicks time but when we switch it off after half an hour and start it again it doesn’t start cranks but doesn’t start . I need ur help

I understand the diagnosis but what damage was inflicted on the engine. I pressume the engine was badly damaged due to the valve timing being off? Did you complete a report and then pass the vehicle back to the owner? Good detective work again Dan.

When the dealer asks what they should replace next , answer “your technician”. A good tech is part Colombo. It’s not just replacing a part, but knowing what art to replace.

Almost seems like people cant think for themselves. We can still introduce fuel into a modern car and see if it hits.

You know what Dan, you say "lets diagnose this together"...nah man, I'll let you do it and learn along the way!

I could here that engines timing was out when you were cracking it Dan. First thing I noticed.

Great video. Could the problem with no codes be from the valve timing problem creating a reading so the ecm thought you were doing a no fuel crank with the gas floored?

People rely to much on the computer to do the work. They push a button and it says replace this part. No thinking , quick, money made on part. Spending time to find and repair a problem takes time, costs money, tech only gets flat rate pay. Every business run by accountants needs to be cheap for the owner and cheerful for the tech.

Brilliant. I hope future mechanics appreciate these videos!

Fastest way to diagnose this problem is to compare cam timing because bmw is known to have timing guide issues and I don’t understand why the dealer didn’t know this

Dan is the detective again 💯, this is another proof we call dealership as 'Stealership' in America ! In this BMW, is 'relative compression test' (using oscilloscope showing amp draw during crank) going to find engine timing issue too?

jaaaa how ff, he half werk maat zie nog niks draaien. maar neem aan dat jij deze weer draaiend maakt , en wij deel 2 te zien krijgen of ben je daar te druk voor.. ik heb weer wat geleerd bedankt dan gr

i'm impressed with diagnosis you have done Dan.

Never thought an engine with the timing so wrong would still spark... If it was me, I might have replaced the HP pump as well. Was there any duty cycle signal on the actuator of the fuel pump?